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Jonas Gray (RB - New England) (1 Viewer)
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
You make the key point: It was a Friday practice. It's the most important practice of the week and BB had one power back available for this Friday's practice. He used the same RB in the game who was available on Friday.Rimez said:
I'm guessing they were teaching Gray a harsh one-game lesson but who knows? They might just keep going with Blount because of their familiarity. Or Gray could be the full big-back starter again next week. All I know is this: Gray won't be in my lineup.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Unfortunately, I agree. Got to at least watch another week to see what happens next. Ask the Crowell folks who dumped too soon if Gray should be held a little longer at least.General Tso said:
IgglesFan
Footballguy
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
Gray missed a very important day of meetings with a very poor excuse. Blount has played more games for the Pats than Gray has and probably knows the playbook better. Blount is a veteran with much more experience than Gray.
Ladsud
Footballguy
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General Tso
Guest
shadyridr
Footballguy
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
az_prof
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
hey! I got a call right this year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
People that hold such little leverage would be unwise to stage a "protest". I hope you're incorrect because that would be far worse than oversleeping.General Tso said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
[Jimmy Johnson] When a third string safety falls asleep in a team meeting you cut him and make an example of him. When Troy Aikman falls asleep, you nudge him to wake him up. [/Jimmy Johnson]General Tso said:
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo
Footballguy
Agreed
I grabbed Gray off free agency so I don't feel too burned, but this sucks. At best Gray is now a desperate flex play (ditto for Blount). I hate Bellichick.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I think it says a lot about BB's character that he cares more about a guy whose alarm clock may have actually ####ed up vs. a guy who quit on his team last week, was caught smoking a J this year and has attempted to hit his teammates multiple times. I'm begining not to like the new NFL. Coaches think they're so ####### cute anymore with their sub packages. Run the guy into the ground. I've seen just as many injuries, if not more with the splitting of RB's. Look at Ingram and Murray, amazing how productive they've become when getting the rock 20 to 30 times a game. Really figured the league would go back to that with Seattle's huge success. Nope, same cutesy bull ####. Sorry this post got off track from about BB and Gray. Gray didn't affect me at all yesterday I'm just sick of this season.
Young 8
Footballguy
Zero accountability ?
What the hell are you talking about ?
There are many people (not me) on this board who think Goodell should allow Adrian Peterson to come back despite having brutalized his own son with a switch and you're telling me that a guy should not see the field just because he overslept once ?
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Cheesedawg
Footballguy
I'm a Gray owner. He missed practice on the most critical day of the week. He is three weeks removed from being a career practice squad player. He was taught a lesson as the Pats stuck to their rules. He knew the rules. He was held accountable. That is how the world works. He was active. He got paid. He just didn't get to play.
I completely understand what Ponchsox was saying. If you think Belichick was sadistic for enforcing his own well-known rules, then yes, it makes you sound like you are part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo
Footballguy
Agreed! I mean, he suited up for 1, that is huge bc I was fully expecting Gray to be a healthy scratch. If Blount couldn't get it going I think we would have seen Gray, but Blount had 6.5 ypc against the number 1 rush defense. Gray has been solid, but let's not pretend that he isn't replaceable, a la Stevan Ridley. To add to Brady and Gronk, you could make a similar case for Wilfork and Revis on defense.
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General Tso
Guest
Wait a minute, what are these well known Patriot rules you keep talking about? That if you miss practice you are benched? Why didn't that happen to Revis?If you want to argue that it's all about winning, then that's fine. But don't paint it up as an accountability issue, because that necessitates a level of fairness and equal application of the well known rules.
The only entitlement that seems to exist here is with Belichik and Revis. When a rule doesn't apply to one person because they're more talented, that's called entitlement.
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Niles Standish
Footballguy
Gray didn't play because he's not as good as Blount. It wasn't a punishment for being late to practice. What is inconsistent or unfair about that?General Tso said:
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General Tso
Guest
I agree with that, and the more I think about it, this has to be what happened. I think BB probably planned to bench Gray for the first couple series - saw Blount playing well - and decided to just roll with him the whole game.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
That you get sent home when you arrive late to practice. That is the rule. You have no idea what went into Gray not getting any snaps. Sadistic piece of #####? Unfair? That is a ridiculous posture. He didn't just miss any practice...he missed the critical Friday practice. Belichick obviously thought Blount, who WAS at practice, was better prepared to play. Very well might be other extenuating circumstances too. There is nothing wrong with what Belichick did. Break the rules? You are in jeopardy. That's life, my friend.
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General Tso
Guest
http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=11924151&city=boston&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%22%7D
I still think it's s little of both - BB disciplining Gray and doing what he thought would win him the game. At this point I'm not playing Gray unless Blount is not available that week. I'm still not convinced that Blount is a better RB than Gray is, but it seems clear at this point that The Pats coaching staff likes Blount more.
Man, what a difference a week makes. From the penthouse to the doghouse. At least he'll always have the Sports Illustrated cover.
Niles Standish
Footballguy
It could have some discipline in it, but I just think Gray is not that good. He had a great game against a team that New England for whatever reason can run against easily. Blount had a better game against Indy in the playoffs last year when it comes right down to it. I think Blount is more talented. I don't think either is special but Blount has been a 1,000 yard rusher in the past and always on a roster. Gray didn't have an NFL carry until year 3 and that took a major injury.
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
If a bum like Blount could run like the wind, just imagine what LeVeon Bell could've done in NE...
Yes, I'm a Bell owner and I think he's top 3 RB in the league.
Yes, I'm a Bell owner and I think he's top 3 RB in the league.
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General Tso
Guest
Teddy Bruschi on WEEI right now just said that in his opinion the benching was entirely disciplinary. He said that BB probably used this opportunity to drive home with the rest of the team that tardiness will not be tolerated.
Who knows. It does at least have the appearance of inconsistent application of the rules. Belichik fascinates me like no other. Is he a great leader or a phoney? A stern disciplinarian looking out for the overall good of the team and his men, or a petulant bully? Probably a good conversation for another thread...
Who knows. It does at least have the appearance of inconsistent application of the rules. Belichik fascinates me like no other. Is he a great leader or a phoney? A stern disciplinarian looking out for the overall good of the team and his men, or a petulant bully? Probably a good conversation for another thread...
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
He would have to be the stupidest human being to ever walk the planet to pull something like this, I sincerely doubt it.Dr. Octopus said:
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Watch "A football life" featuring Jimmy Johnson and you will understand how the discipline works. It's not equal to everyone. Jimmy takes BB out on a few boating trips a year for advice so don't tell me his philosophy didn't play a role and trickle into BBs decision making process.
Pay attention when they ask Jimmy about the time he cut a player for being late, particularly when they asked if he would have done the same to Aikman. The job of the coach is to motivate players to the point of excellence. It would do not good to cut Brady if he was late, but it would do good to cut an expendable player for doing the same thing. This isn't really about being fair across the board.
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Brady, Gronk, Revis aren't going to get benched for the entire game, but that's probably more due to the fact that their replacements would not come close to replacing them.
A few years ago, Welker was benched for the 1st quarter after he made some comments about Rex Ryan and his foot fetish. He played during the 2nd quarter, because he was important to their offense.
If Blount screws up, it will be just as easy for BB to replace him now.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
People might be overlooking the fact that the Patriots only rushed 20 times as a team: 12 for Blount, 8 for Vereen. Last week the plan was smash mouth football because they knew the Colts couldn't handle it. This week, against that Detroit front 7, the plan switched completely to spread-em-out football. It's what Belichick does.
So yeah "OMG Gray didn't play a single snap" sounds huge, but Blount only ran the ball 12 times. Overwhelmingly the RB on the field was Vereen. What would Gray have gotten had he not overslept? Half of Blount's workload? 4 carries?
So yeah "OMG Gray didn't play a single snap" sounds huge, but Blount only ran the ball 12 times. Overwhelmingly the RB on the field was Vereen. What would Gray have gotten had he not overslept? Half of Blount's workload? 4 carries?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
As far as Belhichickian moves, none of them really bother me, but for those that do, I thought cutting the guy the night before the Super Bowl was "worse."
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I still believe
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
A chance to prove he could still be productive despite a tough match-up. A chance to prove he was better than Blount and the better inside runner. An chance to limit Blount's opportunities and in turn not let Blount flash his skills (he looked good on his 12 touches). Essentially, oversleeping put his very livelihood in legitimate jeopardy. Saying "Oh, it's not some huge loss." is ridiculous haha.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
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General Tso
Guest
Thanks - I'll check that out. My first reaction is that having been on many teams in my life, and having managed a few myself, it is a very tricky proposition to apply the rules differently based on talent or perceived "motivation to excellence". I understand it full well, and there is some merit to the point that ultimately the objective is to motivate each individual to excellence, but I think the fallacy with this argument is in the assumption that people of lesser talent are not just as motivated to achieve excellence as a Tom Brady is. And in that circumstance the unfair application of discipline can completely backfire on a coach and demoralize a player.It's been my experience that being fair and consistent with all employees is more difficult to implement, but yields the best long term results.
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Sorry, you're not entitled to anything in the NFL. Especially an end-of-roster guy like Gray. Even after a big game. He's not owed a "chance to prove himself." That's what he got when the Patriots signed him after he was released by the Miami practice squad. The guy is still on the roster, if he's good, he'll have a career. If we never hear from him again, it's not because he wasn't given a "chance to prove himself" against the Lions in week 12 of the regular season.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
That's like asserting Ridley fumbling didn't affect his career in NE. You asked if Gray's mistake actually cost him anything and the answer is obviously yes, it cost him play time. Is it possible this seemingly small mistake will affect his career in NE moving forward? Of course; especially since BB loves utilizing the "next man up" philosophy. Anyway, I never said he was owed anything but that he was squandering his chances. You hit me with a nice straw man there.
just_want_2_win
Footballguy
Not posting this to brag about the call but more to say that BB is pretty predictable only this regard. Gray put himself in the dog house and will stay there until there's a reason (Blount fumbles, misbehaves, or gets hurt).
mnmplayer
Footballguy
It's dependent on value of the player to the team.
Actually I don't think Jimmy cut a guy for being late, the guy was sleeping during a meeting, something like that.
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