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Seeking some yield on my money (1 Viewer)

Dentist

***Official FBG Dentist***
I'm a saver.

I've got a good problem to have, and that is quite a bit of cash on hand.

I've maxed out every possible account I can to defer or eliminate taxes. HSA, 401k, Roth, etc.

The only debt i have is a 15 year mortgage at 3.7%

If you had about 50K over and above what you needed for a rock solid safe 6 mo. emergency fund, but weren't willing to play the stock market with it (you want something pretty low risk)

Where would you go to seek the most yield?

Currently i get about 0.9% on most of the money in a capital one account.

Anyway... i've thought of a lot of things... i-bonds yield 3.0% right now... that sounds appealing.. but i could only buy 10K worth of those.

prosper.com is a peer to peer lending service... that probably carries some risk.

everbank.com has some interesting foreign currency CD's.

CD rates suck.

There are some muni bond ETFs that look intersting... specifically ticker MUB and HYD... but both carry a little more risk.

What's your sweet spot on risk reward to keeping the purchasing power of your money alive while you're waiting to find the right thing to spend it on.

 
I have been buying high div yeild stocks. There are several that are paying 5-10% (EEP is what i am currently invested in). Like any equity there is market risk however, i feel that the 8% return mitigates.

 
Muni bond funds can pay 6-8% + fed tax free, but a lot of people are nervous about the muni market. We bought strictly for income (and a high-yield fund that invests a bit risky) and we have seen a small drop in value recently, but nothing too drastic.

 
Muni bond funds can pay 6-8% + fed tax free, but a lot of people are nervous about the muni market. We bought strictly for income (and a high-yield fund that invests a bit risky) and we have seen a small drop in value recently, but nothing too drastic.
would you be willing to share what you bought?and are you using mutual funds, etfs, or cefs?
 
I have been buying high div yeild stocks. There are several that are paying 5-10% (EEP is what i am currently invested in). Like any equity there is market risk however, i feel that the 8% return mitigates.
thanks for sharing.i've seen this as well... ATT has a nice yield, as does verizon and i'm sure there are others.you can even buy the SDY ETF which is just the dividend yieding stocks in the S&P 500 Edit to say: you didn't exactly choose a stock, that's a master limited partnership right? Those are very nice but i'm not sure i want to deal with the K1 form you'll get for owning that.also that's a little more risk than i'm into.How did you pick EEP as opposed to say ETP or KMP which are considered best in breed in that class of investment?
 
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List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.

 
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List of preferred shares.

I don't think you have go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL).
Thank you for this posting.

Here is a similar listing: http://www.dividendyieldhunter.com/Preferred_Stocks_Sorted_By_Yield.html

I think individual preferred stocks are a little more shifty in the price of the assets than i'm looking for.

Even PFF - which is an ETF of diversified preferred shares and has a yield of 7% has an unstable share price that has falled 8% this year.

This is a little more action than i'm hoping for here.

And the ultimate answer may be that i can't get much yield at all without taking some risk.

I'm just picking the collective brains of FBG's to see if there are any stones unturned i haven't thought about.

 
Muni bond funds can pay 6-8% + fed tax free, but a lot of people are nervous about the muni market. We bought strictly for income (and a high-yield fund that invests a bit risky) and we have seen a small drop in value recently, but nothing too drastic.
would you be willing to share what you bought?and are you using mutual funds, etfs, or cefs?
ORNAXOppenheimer Rochester fund. Managed muni bond fund. Went through a broker (this is in a trust - I had nothing to do with the decision to go through a broker - I have a Scottrade acct personally but don't own any munis)
 
There are certain companies which pay a high dividend and have never cut their dividend. You can research those.

However, if you are chasing yield with some security, I would tend to buy a dividend fund. You can find those with yields above 5%, and the risk is spread among many companies. As long as you are investing for the long haul, you won't have to worry about price fluctuations in the market.

 
***The Following assumes you have a "Risk On" stance with the rest of your investments and this is just pure Capital you don't want to spend.

10oz of Gold

500 oz of Silver

$20K of Cash in a shoebox

Coach class Airline Tickets to Vegas for the Super Bowl at a 4 star hotel (you got alot of "extra"capital, you deserve to spend some of it)

Rest CD's

If you want to get fancy you can mix in some FX.

 
I'm a saver. I've got a good problem to have, and that is quite a bit of cash on hand.I've maxed out every possible account I can to defer or eliminate taxes. HSA, 401k, Roth, etc.The only debt i have is a 15 year mortgage at 3.7%If you had about 50K over and above what you needed for a rock solid safe 6 mo. emergency fund, but weren't willing to play the stock market with it (you want something pretty low risk)Where would you go to seek the most yield?Currently i get about 0.9% on most of the money in a capital one account.Anyway... i've thought of a lot of things... i-bonds yield 3.0% right now... that sounds appealing.. but i could only buy 10K worth of those.prosper.com is a peer to peer lending service... that probably carries some risk.everbank.com has some interesting foreign currency CD's.CD rates suck.There are some muni bond ETFs that look intersting... specifically ticker MUB and HYD... but both carry a little more risk.What's your sweet spot on risk reward to keeping the purchasing power of your money alive while you're waiting to find the right thing to spend it on.
How much do you owe on your house?
 
How much do you owe on your house?
about 140ki know i could pay money on the mortgage, but i can't help but feel like that's not the right decision...i'd like to keep the money around so i can pay for my next car with cash and do some other things.
 
Check out ATOIX--Alpine Ultra Short Tax Optimized fund. Yielding ~1.83%.

Don't know what the minimum or holding period rules are though. Or if there's a load.

 
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Pretty much as already said... if you don't mind upping your risk then the stocks paying high yields is a good place to look. If you are a little risk adverse then muni's are a good place to look because of the tax advantages with them on top of competitive yields in the bond market.

 
Did you ever get any gold or silver? If not, its come down some (I think you were shying away last time we discussed because it was near its highs). Anyway, if not you could go that route with some of your cash. Look here:https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html#silver?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=button&utm_content=20110215_silver_buy1&utm_campaign=silverYou could also take some and paydown your mortgage. THEN open a HELOC so you have access to that cash.
i did buy some ETFs of IAU and SLV, but then traded out of them when they ramped up to "all time highs" and people were talking about gold and silver i knew that felt like a high point and got out.If i get back into that though it will be within the confines of my Roth IRA because the capital gains tax on collectibles is quite high.Also these are definitely as volatile as stocks and so i don't think that's what i'm looking for.I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
 
Check out ATOIX--Alpine Ultra Short Tax Optimized fund. Yielding ~1.83%. Don't know what the minimum or holding period rules are though. Or if there's a load.
i looked that over.i really dislike mutual funds with all their rules and loads and stuff.If I choose an equity it's going to be more along the lines of an ETF... I think if you get commission free transactions (which I do) that they are a better choice a lot of the time.
 
Anyone bought any I-bonds that pay 3%?

that looks like a pretty safe option to get 3% on

 
'Dentist said:
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000Rate 3.7%term 180 monthsinterest = about 600/moIf you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
 
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'Dentist said:
Anyone bought any I-bonds that pay 3%?that looks like a pretty safe option to get 3% on
ETA: I re-read the OP...didn't realize you max out at 10k on the ibonds.
 
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'Dentist said:
Anyone bought any I-bonds that pay 3%?that looks like a pretty safe option to get 3% on
how long do you have to hold them for? Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of "paying cash for the next car and doing some other things"I guess you need to ask yourself how long you're willing to depart with this cash for? If you think you're going to need the cash soon, you need to be more conservative with it. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but it looked like you changed your tune a tad when you threw in what I quoted above.
With i-bonds you must hold for a year.if you cash out in the first 5 then you are penalized 3 mo. interest.I'm fine with locking it for a year.. maybe not the full 5 but i can live with that penalty.
 
'Dentist said:
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000Rate 3.7%term 180 monthsinterest = about 600/moIf you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
interesting thought. I will definitely consider that.every financial thing i've ever read says that paying down your house is generally not the best choice. My grandfather told me his biggest financial error (albeit not a horriffic one) was paying down home debt too quickly instead of using that money to invest.But dang it is hard to find any yield right now without assuming a decent amount of risk.
 
'Dentist said:
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000

Rate 3.7%

term 180 months

interest = about 600/mo

If you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
interesting thought. I will definitely consider that.

every financial thing i've ever read says that paying down your house is generally not the best choice. My grandfather told me his biggest financial error (albeit not a horriffic one) was paying down home debt too quickly instead of using that money to invest.

But dang it is hard to find any yield right now without assuming a decent amount of risk.
From a pure dollars and cents thing, it doesn't make sense...but that's taking out all of the soft factors. About 2 years ago, I changed my personal financial strategy to the following:1. Have 6 mos worth of cash for emergencies

2. Max out Roth for wife and I

3. Pay down house mortgage

I fully understand that historically, I can earn more in the stock market over the long term; but I look at paying down the mortgage as buying my freedom to do whatever I want. Now there are some personal things that might or might not be unique to my sitation on why it might or might not make more sense to me...but basically never having to "worry" about money ever again is a big plus.

I started this thread on the exact subject a few years ago. Lots of good discusison inthere. In fact, it's one of my favorite personal finance debates. There is no right or wrong answer though. Also, I did receive quite a few PMs from folks on how great it was to pay off the house.

Just some food for thought.

 
From a pure dollars and cents thing, it doesn't make sense...but that's taking out all of the soft factors. About 2 years ago, I changed my personal financial strategy to the following:

1. Have 6 mos worth of cash for emergencies

2. Max out Roth for wife and I

3. Pay down house mortgage

I fully understand that historically, I can earn more in the stock market over the long term; but I look at paying down the mortgage as buying my freedom to do whatever I want. Now there are some personal things that might or might not be unique to my sitation on why it might or might not make more sense to me...but basically never having to "worry" about money ever again is a big plus.

I started this thread on the exact subject a few years ago. Lots of good discusison inthere. In fact, it's one of my favorite personal finance debates. There is no right or wrong answer though. Also, I did receive quite a few PMs from folks on how great it was to pay off the house.

Just some food for thought.
i remember that thread and plan to re-read it.

However, if i were to pay off my house my wife would just see that as an opportunity to now get out and get a bigger one.

There's a good bit of financial manipulation that has to occur to keep wives happy and make what you want happen to the money.

It's a tough balancing act between getting what I want: massive savings and early retirement and what she wants... lots of wasteful eating out, home improvements, vacations, clothes etc.

If i had her "dream" home though that i was quite confident she wouldn't want to move from, i think i agree with the strategy.

 
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From a pure dollars and cents thing, it doesn't make sense...but that's taking out all of the soft factors. About 2 years ago, I changed my personal financial strategy to the following:

1. Have 6 mos worth of cash for emergencies

2. Max out Roth for wife and I

3. Pay down house mortgage

I fully understand that historically, I can earn more in the stock market over the long term; but I look at paying down the mortgage as buying my freedom to do whatever I want. Now there are some personal things that might or might not be unique to my sitation on why it might or might not make more sense to me...but basically never having to "worry" about money ever again is a big plus.

I started this thread on the exact subject a few years ago. Lots of good discusison inthere. In fact, it's one of my favorite personal finance debates. There is no right or wrong answer though. Also, I did receive quite a few PMs from folks on how great it was to pay off the house.

Just some food for thought.
i remember that thread and plan to re-read it.

However, if i were to pay off my house my wife would just see that as an opportunity to now get out and get a bigger one.

There's a good bit of financial manipulation that has to occur to keep wives happy and make what you want happen to the money.

It's a tough balancing act between getting what I want: massive savings and early retirement and what she wants... lots of wasteful eating out, home improvements, vacations, clothes etc.

If i had her "dream" home though that i was quite confident she wouldn't want to move from, i think i agree with the strategy.
Sounds like some "stakeholder management" training is needed ;) In all seriousness, I hear ya...it took her a bit to get on board as well. But we had just finished building a house, so we had as close to a "dream home" as we could afford; and I laid everything out on how it would meet both of our priorites (me starting a business and her able to stay home with the kids for 2 years). After it's paid off, all those other doors are opened even wider than before.

I'm lucky that we've found a great financial system that works for both of us, and neither of us have to "resent" what the other is doing with money. Lots of people I know don't have that.

 
'cstu said:
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
I looked into this list last time this topic came up. I wound up investing in a Goldman Sachs investment (ticker: HYK) that pays 6% and had a long history of stable stock price (outside of 2009 crisis). Thus far, I've gotten divy's of 6% but I'm down about 9% on the appreciation, so I've lost $ on it so far. These things aren't foolproof. Despite that, I'm sticking with it and plunking in some additional money when the price goes down.
 
'Dentist said:
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000Rate 3.7%term 180 monthsinterest = about 600/moIf you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
Also need to factor in the tax angle in this. Plus, a HELOC rate right now is low but most are variable rates (those that you can lock will have usually something like 200 basis points at a minimum higher on that rate). Rates are insanely low right now... not historically low but insanely low. And 3.7% on your 15 year is as close to 'free' money as you can get. The Fed has signaled that they will hold the rate where it is until into 2013 but after that there are only two things that can happen, stay where it is or go up. If inflation becomes an issue (which it will when the economy finally gets going again) then rates will be pushed up. Then, if your investment is doing well with a better economic environment it is going to get eaten into by the higher rate on the HELOC. In effect, you trade a low locked rate of 3.7% for what could be a much higher rate in a few years. Overall, I am not a fan of this route.
 
'cstu said:
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
I looked into this list last time this topic came up. I wound up investing in a Goldman Sachs investment (ticker: HYK) that pays 6% and had a long history of stable stock price (outside of 2009 crisis). Thus far, I've gotten divy's of 6% but I'm down about 9% on the appreciation, so I've lost $ on it so far. These things aren't foolproof. Despite that, I'm sticking with it and plunking in some additional money when the price goes down.
right.. this is what i'm talking about.

I'm looking for something that is like a crazy best of both worlds... best yield i can find with the least amount of risk.

Right now i'm having trouble finding anything better than those i-bonds at 3%.

The problem being that you can only buy 5K of those per person per year.... so that's only a solution for 10k of the about 50 or 60 i'd like to get more yield on.

 
'Dentist said:
'sbonomo said:
I have been buying high div yeild stocks. There are several that are paying 5-10% (EEP is what i am currently invested in). Like any equity there is market risk however, i feel that the 8% return mitigates.
thanks for sharing.i've seen this as well... ATT has a nice yield, as does verizon and i'm sure there are others.you can even buy the SDY ETF which is just the dividend yieding stocks in the S&P 500 Edit to say: you didn't exactly choose a stock, that's a master limited partnership right? Those are very nice but i'm not sure i want to deal with the K1 form you'll get for owning that.also that's a little more risk than i'm into.How did you pick EEP as opposed to say ETP or KMP which are considered best in breed in that class of investment?
You are right about the LLP. I picked them because they are investing heavily in natural gas to diversify their portfolio. I listen to the shareholder call every quarter where I get the sense that management has a firm grasp on the current economic climate and the need to maintain consistent returns for shareholders. They have recently raised additional equity through a stock offering that will pay for an additional natural gas pipeline. I believe that natural gas will be used more and more domestically as we continue to try and send a “green” perception to the rest of the world. At the end of the day I am parking money here while I wait for the economy to recover. I have owned the stock for about a year where I have noted less than a 20% up or down swing (beta = .52) with a consistent 8% div. As of today I think my effective return is roughly 18% for the year (I have been lucky with a $2.00 uptick in the stock price). At the end of the day I would like the stock growth to remain flat while I stock pile additional cash from the div payout.
 
'Dentist said:
'sbonomo said:
I have been buying high div yeild stocks. There are several that are paying 5-10% (EEP is what i am currently invested in). Like any equity there is market risk however, i feel that the 8% return mitigates.
thanks for sharing.i've seen this as well... ATT has a nice yield, as does verizon and i'm sure there are others.you can even buy the SDY ETF which is just the dividend yieding stocks in the S&P 500 Edit to say: you didn't exactly choose a stock, that's a master limited partnership right? Those are very nice but i'm not sure i want to deal with the K1 form you'll get for owning that.also that's a little more risk than i'm into.How did you pick EEP as opposed to say ETP or KMP which are considered best in breed in that class of investment?
You are right about the LLP. I picked them because they are investing heavily in natural gas to diversify their portfolio. I listen to the shareholder call every quarter where I get the sense that management has a firm grasp on the current economic climate and the need to maintain consistent returns for shareholders. They have recently raised additional equity through a stock offering that will pay for an additional natural gas pipeline. I believe that natural gas will be used more and more domestically as we continue to try and send a “green” perception to the rest of the world. At the end of the day I am parking money here while I wait for the economy to recover. I have owned the stock for about a year where I have noted less than a 20% up or down swing (beta = .52) with a consistent 8% div. As of today I think my effective return is roughly 18% for the year (I have been lucky with a $2.00 uptick in the stock price). At the end of the day I would like the stock growth to remain flat while I stock pile additional cash from the div payout.
nice play, i like your reasoning for the investment.I am considering AMLP which is the ETF for Master Limited Partnerships. But a huge red flag on that fund popped up to me when they declared a ZERO dividend in November after normally paying 1.6% a quarter.
 
the yield hunter recommends these for stable income:

http://www.dividendyieldhunter.com/

The four preferreds we like in the closed end sector are --

Royce Micro Cap Trust 6% Cumulative Preferred (RMT) which is trading right at par value ($25).

Royce Value Trust 5.9% Cumulative Preferred (RVT) again trading at par value.

Gabelli Equity Trust 5 7/8% Cumulative Preferred (GABD) again trading near par value.

General American Investors 5.95% Cumulative Preferred (GAM) trading at or near par value

My grandfather, noted stock guru, recommended Phillip Morris - PM - i told him that was too risky, he told me to grow a pair.

 
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the yield hunter recommends these for stable income:

http://www.dividendyieldhunter.com/

The four preferreds we like in the closed end sector are --

Royce Micro Cap Trust 6% Cumulative Preferred (RMT) which is trading right at par value ($25).

Royce Value Trust 5.9% Cumulative Preferred (RVT) again trading at par value.

Gabelli Equity Trust 5 7/8% Cumulative Preferred (GABD) again trading near par value.

General American Investors 5.95% Cumulative Preferred (GAM) trading at or near par value

My grandfather, noted stock guru, recommended Phillip Morris - PM - i told him that was too risky, he told me to grow a pair.
:lmao: Thanks for the link above. I've owned RVT and RMT as well as other Royce funds. Like the company a lot. Also, take a look at some of Ally's preferred shares. Yielding 10%. There some comfort in government owned that you might appreciate.
 
Not sure what state your in. I know municipals have been mentioned. I'd get in touch with a local / regional municipal bond broker and focus your attention on short-term escrowed or pre-refunded bonds. If you're willing to dig a little deeper with research, you can avoid the safety net ETM or Pre-Re's offer and target something you know. There are a ton of different options available in the fixed income market, but these are easy.

 
Not sure what state your in. I know municipals have been mentioned. I'd get in touch with a local / regional municipal bond broker and focus your attention on short-term escrowed or pre-refunded bonds. If you're willing to dig a little deeper with research, you can avoid the safety net ETM or Pre-Re's offer and target something you know. There are a ton of different options available in the fixed income market, but these are easy.
i'm not terribly knowledgeable on individual bonds, so ETM and pre-re don't mean anything to me.i do however own NOM which is a closed end fund for missouri municipals.i would put more into that fund which yields a nice 5.5%, but because of the nature of closed end funds it is currently trading at a pretty big premium ~18% to net asset value and so while i've enjoyed a massive gain from this investment, putting more into it right now with the premium up so high would be dumb.i anticipate the premium dropping in the future and i will most likely buy more at that time.I would love to get into a missouri municipal bond ETF (but there are none) or a mutual fund (but all 9 are currently closed to new investors)dealing with a broker for individual ones sounds really intimidating.
 
the yield hunter recommends these for stable income:

http://www.dividendyieldhunter.com/

The four preferreds we like in the closed end sector are --

Royce Micro Cap Trust 6% Cumulative Preferred (RMT) which is trading right at par value ($25).

Royce Value Trust 5.9% Cumulative Preferred (RVT) again trading at par value.

Gabelli Equity Trust 5 7/8% Cumulative Preferred (GABD) again trading near par value.

General American Investors 5.95% Cumulative Preferred (GAM) trading at or near par value

My grandfather, noted stock guru, recommended Phillip Morris - PM - i told him that was too risky, he told me to grow a pair.
:lmao: Thanks for the link above. I've owned RVT and RMT as well as other Royce funds. Like the company a lot. Also, take a look at some of Ally's preferred shares. Yielding 10%. There some comfort in government owned that you might appreciate.
you're welcome.

I went to the yield hunter's "high quality portfolio" and printed it off.

i'm going to look hard at some of his picks. he's basically trying to do what i am... find yield, not much risk or beta. but isn't worried about capital growth (and wishes to avoid decline)

I like some of his selections and will stay tuned.

i also learned about a new category of investment i'd never heard of... exchange traded debt which i'll be looking into more closely.

That appeals to me over an individual bond... i always like the option to get out when possible and my merill edge account has no transaction fees for exchange traded equities

 
From a pure dollars and cents thing, it doesn't make sense...but that's taking out all of the soft factors. About 2 years ago, I changed my personal financial strategy to the following:

1. Have 6 mos worth of cash for emergencies

2. Max out Roth for wife and I

3. Pay down house mortgage

I fully understand that historically, I can earn more in the stock market over the long term; but I look at paying down the mortgage as buying my freedom to do whatever I want. Now there are some personal things that might or might not be unique to my sitation on why it might or might not make more sense to me...but basically never having to "worry" about money ever again is a big plus.

I started this thread on the exact subject a few years ago. Lots of good discusison inthere. In fact, it's one of my favorite personal finance debates. There is no right or wrong answer though. Also, I did receive quite a few PMs from folks on how great it was to pay off the house.

Just some food for thought.
i remember that thread and plan to re-read it.

However, if i were to pay off my house my wife would just see that as an opportunity to now get out and get a bigger one.

There's a good bit of financial manipulation that has to occur to keep wives happy and make what you want happen to the money.

It's a tough balancing act between getting what I want: massive savings and early retirement and what she wants... lots of wasteful eating out, home improvements, vacations, clothes etc.

If i had her "dream" home though that i was quite confident she wouldn't want to move from, i think i agree with the strategy.
Sounds like you should be investing in nomarriage.com
 
From a pure dollars and cents thing, it doesn't make sense...but that's taking out all of the soft factors. About 2 years ago, I changed my personal financial strategy to the following:

1. Have 6 mos worth of cash for emergencies

2. Max out Roth for wife and I

3. Pay down house mortgage

I fully understand that historically, I can earn more in the stock market over the long term; but I look at paying down the mortgage as buying my freedom to do whatever I want. Now there are some personal things that might or might not be unique to my sitation on why it might or might not make more sense to me...but basically never having to "worry" about money ever again is a big plus.

I started this thread on the exact subject a few years ago. Lots of good discusison inthere. In fact, it's one of my favorite personal finance debates. There is no right or wrong answer though. Also, I did receive quite a few PMs from folks on how great it was to pay off the house.

Just some food for thought.
i remember that thread and plan to re-read it.

However, if i were to pay off my house my wife would just see that as an opportunity to now get out and get a bigger one.

There's a good bit of financial manipulation that has to occur to keep wives happy and make what you want happen to the money.

It's a tough balancing act between getting what I want: massive savings and early retirement and what she wants... lots of wasteful eating out, home improvements, vacations, clothes etc.

If i had her "dream" home though that i was quite confident she wouldn't want to move from, i think i agree with the strategy.
Sounds like you should be investing in nomarriage.com
well done Bob
 
'Dentist said:
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000Rate 3.7%term 180 monthsinterest = about 600/moIf you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
Also need to factor in the tax angle in this. Plus, a HELOC rate right now is low but most are variable rates (those that you can lock will have usually something like 200 basis points at a minimum higher on that rate). Rates are insanely low right now... not historically low but insanely low. And 3.7% on your 15 year is as close to 'free' money as you can get. The Fed has signaled that they will hold the rate where it is until into 2013 but after that there are only two things that can happen, stay where it is or go up. If inflation becomes an issue (which it will when the economy finally gets going again) then rates will be pushed up. Then, if your investment is doing well with a better economic environment it is going to get eaten into by the higher rate on the HELOC. In effect, you trade a low locked rate of 3.7% for what could be a much higher rate in a few years. Overall, I am not a fan of this route.
I was ignoring the tax angle because it sounds like he's exhausted all tax advantaged options, so the tax effect will be the same as if he were making 3.7%. Anyway, I think it fits his goal perfectly. He wants very low risk, not locked away forever, and making some yield. I realize he's taking fixed rate $ and potentially trading it for variable rate $ but lets face it, he's probably not going to be using this money anyway. All other options will be too risky or carry no yield. In 2 or 3 years he will probably have saved this amount again so there will be no NEED to draw in the HELOC. Its just an opened credit line in case he needs it. And, I did also recommend investing in metals with part of this to hedge against inflation.
 
here is Kiplinger's latest column on this subject:

http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/where-to-score-the-best-interest-rates-on-your-savings.html

For savers, the days of earning tantalizing rates on a wad of cash seem like a distant dream. If you need a safe place to park your money now, the prospects aren’t pretty. Money funds are paying almost nothing. The most generous rates on bank deposit accounts barely brush 1%. Even the highest-yielding Internet checking accounts, once heralded as the go-to place for great rates on up to $25,000, are paying 2% to 3%—and that’s only if you meet certain requirements, such as using a debit card several times a month. And agreeing to lock up your money for a few months or years doesn’t help much: A five-year certificate of deposit yields, on average, 1.19%. Rates aren’t moving up anytime soon, either. In response to the still-sluggish economy, the Federal Reserve announced last summer that it would keep short-term rates near zero through mid 2013—and maybe longer.

Given the challenging environment, some financial planners are getting creative in the hunt for yield. Brent Perry, president of Piedmont Financial Advisors, in Indianapolis, has told clients with plenty of cash and a penchant for travel to look into accounts that offer frequent-flier miles instead of interest. With $50,000 parked in BankDirect’s Mileage Checking Account, for example, you could earn 60,000 American Airlines miles in a year. With that, he estimates, you could buy two round-trip domestic coach tickets worth about $500 minimum—an immediate return of 1%.

We’ve listed the top spots for eking out interest on your savings, depending on your tolerance for risk and how long you can tie up your money. You can also search for higher-yielding accounts at www.nerdwallet.com/rates, which shows you options from local banks and credit unions as well as from banks that accept deposits nationally.

No risk, low reward

For your emergency fund—at least three to six months’ worth of living expenses—and any other savings that need to be safe and immediately available, look to accounts insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., such as interest-bearing checking and savings accounts and money market deposit accounts. Each account is insured up to $250,000. (Credit union deposits are insured up to the same limits by the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund.)

With yields on money market deposit accounts as meager as they are—the average savings account pays less than 0.3%—rate shopping is essential. With a $2,500 deposit, you can earn 1.18% in a money market account at Incrediblebank.com, although you’ll trigger a $10 maintenance fee if your balance drops below $2,500. Other banks with good rates include AmTrust Direct ($500 to open an account) and MyBankingDirect ($5,000 to open an account). Both are affiliated with New York Community Bank, and both pay 1.15%, but at AmTrust Direct you need to maintain a $10,000 balance to qualify for that rate. Money market deposit accounts generally provide checks and an ATM card for withdrawing cash or to use for purchases. You can also transfer funds electronically to a linked checking or savings account. You are limited to six transfers per month, not including cash withdrawals at the ATM.

You can open a savings account at Alliant Credit Union with just $5, and it pays 1.15%. (A $10 contribution to Foster Care to Success, a nonprofit organization that serves foster teens, makes you eligible to join the credit union.) Or you can open an FDIC-insured savings account at CNBBankDirect, the online division of Citizens National Bank in Bluffton, Ohio, with just $1 and earn 1.05%. American Express Bank also offers a savings account with no minimum balance that pays 1%. You can link a savings account to a checking account to transfer funds.

If you meet the qualifications—which usually include banking online and using a debit card for purchases—a high-yield checking account is another option. The amount eligible to earn the highest rate is usually limited to $25,000 or less, and some of the best rates are available only to residents of the states where the bank does business. But Union State Bank, in Kansas, for one, is open to anyone and its My Rewards checking account pays 2.5% on deposits up to $25,000. You can find insured high-yield accounts offered by community banks and credit unions at Checking Finder.

The CD option

For money you can tie up for a few months or more—say, a portion of your emergency fund that you wouldn’t need for at least three months, or money earmarked for tuition or retirement income—consider certificates of deposit. CDs come with maturities that typically range from three months to five years, with longer maturities offering higher yields.

You can invest in a long-term CD even if you think you may cash out early or if you want to take advantage of rising rates—just be sure to check the interest penalty. For example, a five-year CD from Ally Bank, which yields 1.89%, charges a penalty of only 60 days’ yield if you withdraw the money early. But a five-year CD from Intervest National Bank, which offers a slightly higher rate of 2.00%, takes back half your interest with its early-withdrawal interest penalty of 30 months.

Constructing a CD ladder—putting chunks of cash in CDs of varying maturities—allows you to benefit from the best current yields and stay flexible enough to snag top rates down the road. When interest rates rise, you reinvest cash from shorter-term CDs to take advantage of higher yields. Your longer-term CDs will continue to earn interest at today’s highest rates. If you’d like to put more than $250,000 (the maximum that the FDIC will insure in a single account) in CDs, the Certificate of Deposit Account Registry Service (CDARS) offers a convenient way to invest your funds. You deal with one participating bank, which sets the rate and parcels out $250,000 chunks to some of the more than 3,000 participating institutions.

U.S. savings bonds are another supersafe investment for money you can tie up for a year. EE bonds pay low rates (0.6%) but I-bonds pay an attractive 3.06%. You can cash in savings bonds after 12 months, but if you redeem them before five years have passed, you forfeit the last three months’ worth of interest. The I-bond’s rate is composed of a fixed rate, currently 0%, that lasts for the life of the bond and a semiannual inflation rate that changes every six months. If you bought a $1,000 I-bond and redeemed it after a year, you’d still earn about 3% interest after the penalty. You must purchase savings bonds in an online Treasury Direct account.

Higher risk, higher reward

You can earn 3% or 4% in WorldCurrency CDs from EverBank. The CDs, which have maturities of three to 12 months, invest in currencies of foreign markets—a six-month CD invested in the South African rand, for example, recently yielded 3.68% (there’s a $10,000 minimum purchase). The CDs are FDIC-insured against bank failure, but you take on currency risk—you could lose principal if the U.S. dollar rises—so consider putting cash in a few different currencies to hedge against price fluctuations. The WorldCurrency Basket CD, with a maturity of three or six months, invests in a mix of three or more currencies. Basket CDs require a $20,000 minimum purchase.

If you’re willing to forgo FDIC insurance completely, explore ultra-short-term bond funds. Some of them suffered heavy losses during the downturn in 2008 and proved to be more risky than expected. And as with other bonds and bond funds, when interest rates go up, prices of short-term debt securities go down. But because of the bonds’ short maturities, substantial losses aren’t in the cards.

Many of these funds yield less than 2%, and much of your gains will be eaten up if expenses are high. TCW Short Term Bond I (symbol TGSMX), an ultra-short fund with no sales charge and expenses of just 0.44%, recently yielded 2.2%. TCW also offers an intermediate-term bond fund, TCW Core Fixed Income (TGFNX), that could be a low-risk cash substitute as long as interest rates remain low (see Bond Funds Instead of Bank Accounts?). The fund yields 2.6%.

 
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
Do the payouts come in the form of cash back to the trading account you used to purchase this debt yearly or do they only payout at the end?
 
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
Do the payouts come in the form of cash back to the trading account you used to purchase this debt yearly or do they only payout at the end?
I've only purchased the BACL so I can't speak if all the rest are the same, but I receive quarterly cash dividends.
 
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
Do the payouts come in the form of cash back to the trading account you used to purchase this debt yearly or do they only payout at the end?
cash back to the trading account generally quarterly.some pay monthly

some semi-anually

check the dividendyieldhunter.com and on his preferred stock charts he has the distribution frequency and amount per share.

 
I get the mortgage paydown... but tell me more about this Heloc idea - i don't really want to borrow against my home... isn't that part of the reason so many people are underwater on their mortgages?
Basically its like this:Mort Bal = 200,000Rate 3.7%term 180 monthsinterest = about 600/moIf you decide to use your 50K to pay this down you would save about $150/mo in interest. But because you dont want that money locked away forever, you would open a heloc on your house for 50k so you could pull this money back out when an opportunity presented itself.
Also need to factor in the tax angle in this. Plus, a HELOC rate right now is low but most are variable rates (those that you can lock will have usually something like 200 basis points at a minimum higher on that rate). Rates are insanely low right now... not historically low but insanely low. And 3.7% on your 15 year is as close to 'free' money as you can get. The Fed has signaled that they will hold the rate where it is until into 2013 but after that there are only two things that can happen, stay where it is or go up. If inflation becomes an issue (which it will when the economy finally gets going again) then rates will be pushed up. Then, if your investment is doing well with a better economic environment it is going to get eaten into by the higher rate on the HELOC. In effect, you trade a low locked rate of 3.7% for what could be a much higher rate in a few years. Overall, I am not a fan of this route.
I was ignoring the tax angle because it sounds like he's exhausted all tax advantaged options, so the tax effect will be the same as if he were making 3.7%. Anyway, I think it fits his goal perfectly. He wants very low risk, not locked away forever, and making some yield. I realize he's taking fixed rate $ and potentially trading it for variable rate $ but lets face it, he's probably not going to be using this money anyway. All other options will be too risky or carry no yield. In 2 or 3 years he will probably have saved this amount again so there will be no NEED to draw in the HELOC. Its just an opened credit line in case he needs it. And, I did also recommend investing in metals with part of this to hedge against inflation.
Maybe I misunderstood you. What I thought you were advocating was paying down the 1st mortgage and then using the equity to open a HELOC, draw on that line and use those funds to invest.
 
List of preferred shares.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Wells Fargo 7.5% (WFCL). It's selling for over par so its yield is 7.1%.

If you're willing to take some risk, BACL is selling at a discount and has a return of 9.3%. It also has its ex-date at the end of the month.
Up from $770 when I posted this to $894 today.
 
U.S. savings bonds are another supersafe investment for money you can tie up for a year. EE bonds pay low rates (0.6%) but I-bonds pay an attractive 3.06%. You can cash in savings bonds after 12 months, but if you redeem them before five years have passed, you forfeit the last three months’ worth of interest. The I-bond’s rate is composed of a fixed rate, currently 0%, that lasts for the life of the bond and a semiannual inflation rate that changes every six months. If you bought a $1,000 I-bond and redeemed it after a year, you’d still earn about 3% interest after the penalty. You must purchase savings bonds in an online Treasury Direct account.
Anyone here buy I-bonds? I can see the inflation rate exceeding the short-term risk free rate for some time. This might be worth it.
 

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