KellysHeroes
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Who is the Browns RB to own
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This is exactly my view. Plus it would depend on current team structure. If I did not need either of these RB, but were just taking a swing for the fences it would be Crowell without thinking. If there was a thought that I needed a safe choice here I might go West. I did vote for Crowell though.My view?
I'm not a fan of either of them really. Crowell is clearly the better talent but he's a boob. And I don't think West is anything special. So my vote would ideally be neither, I'm avoiding them and letting someone else draft them or trading out of my spot to let someone else take them. If I had to pick one though? Crowell cause I think he's the only one with a real chance of being something if he can figure out his personal life issues.
This guy. I was initially a pessimist about him when he was drafted, but he's good. Really good. If he'd gone somewhere better, I'd pay for him. But I'm unlikely to draft him now. Although, in the 4th round, most RBs have some warts. But durability and situation is a bad combo of warts.Ben Tate
I voted assuming the NFL Draft is the best information we have to go on, and history says my choice will be the right one more often than not.One is a guy they traded up in the 3rd round to get.
The other was an UDFA.
I think the choice is pretty simple. It may end up being wrong, but it's simple based on what you know now.
The guy in the 3rd round is the safe guy. He will never be great, but will be a nice backup or maybe turn into an adequate starter some day. The UDFA is the home run hitter that has a chance of being great, but also has a very good chance of doing nothing because he's a knucklehead. Most teams that have a need at RB would select the safer guy even if he doesn't have as much potential.One is a guy they traded up in the 3rd round to get.
The other was an UDFA.
I think the choice is pretty simple. It may end up being wrong, but it's simple based on what you know now.
Ofcourse, and Ben is the starter; but which would be the better backup to himBen Tate
Situation? He's the starter for a team with a good OL, QB play that can only improve from last year, and bad WR's.FF Ninja said:This guy. I was initially a pessimist about him when he was drafted, but he's good. Really good. If he'd gone somewhere better, I'd pay for him. But I'm unlikely to draft him now. Although, in the 4th round, most RBs have some warts. But durability and situation is a bad combo of warts.SayWhat? said:Ben Tate
Don't know why you say that, they're sticking by Gordon at this point. You are reaching with this comment.After the Gordon thing, Cleveland isn't going to fool around... if Crowell gives them any type of a hard time hes cut.
West is going late 2nd, while Crowell is going late 2nd, early 3rd.To me the easy decision is Crowell at those prices. I don't believe West is a threat to Ben Tate. Crowell is good enough to challenge for the starting spot (IMO) if he rights himself.In a bubble? or are we considering ADP/value?
I'd rather wait and take a mid round gamble on Crowell vs. a late 1st on West if that answers the question.
It couldn't possibly be that they all overestimated his talent, right?IMO Crowell clearly had the best tape of any back in this class. His tape from UGA was fantastic, and he still displayed the same skills at Alabama State, even if he didn't display consistent, elite-level effort at all times. The kid was trying to keep himself healthy, which one the one hand, I understand, and on the other I want to knock him for.
BUT, given he was clearly (IMO -- and in Waldman's opinion, and Silva's opinion, and others) the best RB in this class from a pure skill perspective, it's a HUGE red flag to me that he fell completely out of the draft. We've seen the red flag guys fall before, but when they're COMPLETELY out of the draft, that's a signal.
Evan Silva on a DLF podcast said something to the effect of, "How big of a turd do you have to be in the locker room, off the field, and just in general for a team to not even risk the cost of a 7th rounder on a guy with the best tape at the position in the draft?"
ALL that said, I feel like Terrance West is *likely* a career backup that may be able to be a baseline starter in a pinch. I'm not sure if he's ever the difference making RB that a team fully commits to and doesn't look to upgrade in a year or two. That's a losing proposition in dynasty unless you time his selling point increidbly well. Otherwise he's layered with a very talented rookie somewhat unexpectedly (think Mason coming in behind Stacy). Then what?
IMO, the play, if you're going to take a shot on West, is to handcuff with Crowell. If Crowell gets his head on straight, he can be a top 10 RB in the league... and Kyle Shanahan's system is tailor made for elite RB production, espeically with the threat of a running QB. At their current prices though, if I'm forced to pick one... gimme Crowell on a dice roll.
I'm not a fan of either of them, either. I disagree that Crowell is clearly the better talent. He is a boob, though. Crowell has talent for sure. The talk of him being the best RB in this draft based on tape is ridiculous IMO. He's got solid game footage but not spectacular. Many are acting like this is a guy who has 1st round ability but feel only because of off field issues. Well, explain J. Hill then? He had several off field issues, similar to Crowell. He is supposed to be a worse RB prospect and yet he still got drafted in the 2nd, as the 2nd RB overall. The truth of the matter is Crowell is a boob with an over inflated perception of his ability among FFers. I'm probably one of them as well seeing I did expect him to get drafted and him falling out altogether is a surprise to me. Maybe he's good enough to beat out West for the backup position to Tate. I don't see some star in the making here though. The NFL is pretty good at this and when they allow a guy to go completely undrafted, it's not just a character problem. I'll take West given their price, which is remarkably similar. I'll allow the NFL evaluation of him being drafted in the 3rd round and Crowell not being drafted at all be my tie breaker. It's pretty realistic to draft both to be honest. Maybe that's the way to go. Just draft both and let it play out in TC.Khy said:My view?
I'm not a fan of either of them really. Crowell is clearly the better talent but he's a boob. And I don't think West is anything special. So my vote would ideally be neither, I'm avoiding them and letting someone else draft them or trading out of my spot to let someone else take them. If I had to pick one though? Crowell cause I think he's the only one with a real chance of being something if he can figure out his personal life issues.
...as local talk shows are wont to do during this time of the year.Local talk shows say West is looking very good in OTAs.
Sure - it absolutely could be. His freshman year tape from UGA is pretty remarkable IMO. What he put on tape at ASU not so much.It couldn't possibly be that they all overestimated his talent, right?IMO Crowell clearly had the best tape of any back in this class. His tape from UGA was fantastic, and he still displayed the same skills at Alabama State, even if he didn't display consistent, elite-level effort at all times. The kid was trying to keep himself healthy, which one the one hand, I understand, and on the other I want to knock him for.
BUT, given he was clearly (IMO -- and in Waldman's opinion, and Silva's opinion, and others) the best RB in this class from a pure skill perspective, it's a HUGE red flag to me that he fell completely out of the draft. We've seen the red flag guys fall before, but when they're COMPLETELY out of the draft, that's a signal.
Evan Silva on a DLF podcast said something to the effect of, "How big of a turd do you have to be in the locker room, off the field, and just in general for a team to not even risk the cost of a 7th rounder on a guy with the best tape at the position in the draft?"
ALL that said, I feel like Terrance West is *likely* a career backup that may be able to be a baseline starter in a pinch. I'm not sure if he's ever the difference making RB that a team fully commits to and doesn't look to upgrade in a year or two. That's a losing proposition in dynasty unless you time his selling point increidbly well. Otherwise he's layered with a very talented rookie somewhat unexpectedly (think Mason coming in behind Stacy). Then what?
IMO, the play, if you're going to take a shot on West, is to handcuff with Crowell. If Crowell gets his head on straight, he can be a top 10 RB in the league... and Kyle Shanahan's system is tailor made for elite RB production, espeically with the threat of a running QB. At their current prices though, if I'm forced to pick one... gimme Crowell on a dice roll.
wait till the suspension is announced... if its indef then I expect Cleveland to begin to distance themselves away from GordonDon't know why you say that, they're sticking by Gordon at this point. You are reaching with this comment.After the Gordon thing, Cleveland isn't going to fool around... if Crowell gives them any type of a hard time hes cut.
Okay Marked. Put it right in my calendar under "Schedule an oil change" and "Garbage day" now it says "T with T spoke the gospel that Terrance West would be Doug Martin 2.0"You guys are Nuts West will never be great, Career backup???? not that great??? where do you guys get this. He is Doug Martin 2.0 or Zac stacy with better hands. West will beat out Tate and Crowell Mark my words guys.
wrong teamCJ AndersonDion Lewis
There is a pretty good chance the guy drafted, in the 3rd round mind you, is the better talent than the guy who was not drafted at all. A very good chance. The NFL is pretty good at this, much better than any of us and they actually spend money on it. If the gap in NFL valuation was a 5th rounder and a 6th rounder then the pro Crowell camp might have more substance to it. Off the field issues do not drop a player THAT much. We've seen it disproven time after time. Nobody in the Crowell is so talented camp can offer any explanation to J. Hill. That's because there isn't a logical explanation other than the fact that a whole lot of fantasy football guys on the internet over valued the evaluation of Crowell's talent. Perhaps the NFL has missed on him and he will turn into a great player. That's possible. The odds are heavily against that, though.Good discussion here.
The question is who is the Browns RB to own? The answers to choose from are West and Crowell.
Why would you not go with the RB with more talent? Or better skills regardless where or if they are drafted. Don't they have the better chance to be great?
ThisIf Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.
good postingIf I'm a NFL GM and I see a kid kicked out of the SEC - I thought you pretty much had to murder someone to get expelled from that conference - and then get his second chance and an opportunity to appreciate the mistakes and atone at ASU and then subsequently put forth what appears to be not really giving a damn there, I have a very tough time signing this guy no matter what skill set he has, and if I do sign him he's on an extraordinarily short leash.
That's my professional credibility on the line with a known substantial character issue guy who would not take full advantage of his second (realistically probably fifth or sixth) chance while I've got other guys to develop simultaneously - including a party boy QB - not to mention installing a new O, etc.
My guess is that the odds are pretty stacked against Crowell. I'm surprised at how high he's going in FF drafts, but there are always guys who will roll the dice for that lottery ticket that comes from nowhere and propels your team up multiple notches.
I drafted Da'Rick Rogers myself last year, but it was a full round after where Crowell is going and I was sold on Rogers' remorse over his past. I'm not sold on Crowell similarly. I also took Burfict in IDP drafts, but it was much later and personally I thought Burfict was a better LB pro prospect than Crowell is a pro RB prospect.
IMO that's a huge gamble with a 2nd rounder when there is at least one and possibly two fully capable guys there on CLE who could gobble up RB touches. Too much even for my proclivity to roll the dice. I'd have to side on going with West at nearly the same draft spot.
But the ADP's say the Crowell isn't cheap. Their ADP's are almost identical, with some leagues Crowell going ahead of West. To me, that is just insanity. He is an UDFA and West was drafted in the 3rd round, 6th RB off the board. When 32 teams pass on you, there are good reasons for that. Even as someone said, not taking a 7th round flyer on you. Crowell stuffs up once and he is gone. You'd have to think Colt Lyerla is in the same boat. His ADP has gone through the roof too but that is for another topic.I'm happy to take risks on players that I can get for cheap. Crowell for me.
He's a RB, many teams feel they don't need to invest much on the position. The very coaching staff he went to especially.Ramblin Wreck said:ThisIf Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.
This.I'm not sold Crowell has more talent. The NFL has proven that it doesn't really care about off field issues if a guy has talent. Ray Lewis, Dante Stallworth, and Mike Vick all KILLED people, and dogs, and still got to play football for lots of money.
If Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.