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Terrance West vs Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

Who is the Browns RB to own

  • Terrance West

    Votes: 208 48.9%
  • Isaiah Crowell

    Votes: 217 51.1%

  • Total voters
    425
My view?

I'm not a fan of either of them really. Crowell is clearly the better talent but he's a boob. And I don't think West is anything special. So my vote would ideally be neither, I'm avoiding them and letting someone else draft them or trading out of my spot to let someone else take them. If I had to pick one though? Crowell cause I think he's the only one with a real chance of being something if he can figure out his personal life issues.

 
My view?

I'm not a fan of either of them really. Crowell is clearly the better talent but he's a boob. And I don't think West is anything special. So my vote would ideally be neither, I'm avoiding them and letting someone else draft them or trading out of my spot to let someone else take them. If I had to pick one though? Crowell cause I think he's the only one with a real chance of being something if he can figure out his personal life issues.
This is exactly my view. Plus it would depend on current team structure. If I did not need either of these RB, but were just taking a swing for the fences it would be Crowell without thinking. If there was a thought that I needed a safe choice here I might go West. I did vote for Crowell though.

 
One is a guy they traded up in the 3rd round to get.

The other was an UDFA.

I think the choice is pretty simple. It may end up being wrong, but it's simple based on what you know now.

 
This guy. I was initially a pessimist about him when he was drafted, but he's good. Really good. If he'd gone somewhere better, I'd pay for him. But I'm unlikely to draft him now. Although, in the 4th round, most RBs have some warts. But durability and situation is a bad combo of warts.

 
One is a guy they traded up in the 3rd round to get.

The other was an UDFA.

I think the choice is pretty simple. It may end up being wrong, but it's simple based on what you know now.
I voted assuming the NFL Draft is the best information we have to go on, and history says my choice will be the right one more often than not.

 
One is a guy they traded up in the 3rd round to get.

The other was an UDFA.

I think the choice is pretty simple. It may end up being wrong, but it's simple based on what you know now.
The guy in the 3rd round is the safe guy. He will never be great, but will be a nice backup or maybe turn into an adequate starter some day. The UDFA is the home run hitter that has a chance of being great, but also has a very good chance of doing nothing because he's a knucklehead. Most teams that have a need at RB would select the safer guy even if he doesn't have as much potential.

 
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FF Ninja said:
SayWhat? said:
This guy. I was initially a pessimist about him when he was drafted, but he's good. Really good. If he'd gone somewhere better, I'd pay for him. But I'm unlikely to draft him now. Although, in the 4th round, most RBs have some warts. But durability and situation is a bad combo of warts.
Situation? He's the starter for a team with a good OL, QB play that can only improve from last year, and bad WR's.

 
I want to vote here Kelly but for me it's just too early to distinguish/choose between the two, draft slot aside. We all know why Crowell fell out of the draft. I'd like to take the next couple of months and see what transpires with him. I think the positives are there for Crowell to become a highly successful professional, much more so than West. And of course there are the cons too. I want to root for Crowell to take the job and run with it, but there are lingering doubts as to whether he will be able to do just that.

I think Crowell can become a beast and the only thing holding Crowell back is Crowell. Right now the safer pick is West. I'm hoping come late August that isn't the case between these two, that Crowell shows greater promise and my league mates let him fall to me at a draft slot holding some value.

I'd be surprised if West doesn't win this poll handily at this point in time. It would be good to revisit this in mid-August.

 
After the Gordon thing, Cleveland isn't going to fool around... if Crowell gives them any type of a hard time hes cut.

 
In a bubble? or are we considering ADP/value?

I'd rather wait and take a mid round gamble on Crowell vs. a late 1st on West if that answers the question.

 
IMO Crowell clearly had the best tape of any back in this class. His tape from UGA was fantastic, and he still displayed the same skills at Alabama State, even if he didn't display consistent, elite-level effort at all times. The kid was trying to keep himself healthy, which one the one hand, I understand, and on the other I want to knock him for.

BUT, given he was clearly (IMO -- and in Waldman's opinion, and Silva's opinion, and others) the best RB in this class from a pure skill perspective, it's a HUGE red flag to me that he fell completely out of the draft. We've seen the red flag guys fall before, but when they're COMPLETELY out of the draft, that's a signal.

Evan Silva on a DLF podcast said something to the effect of, "How big of a turd do you have to be in the locker room, off the field, and just in general for a team to not even risk the cost of a 7th rounder on a guy with the best tape at the position in the draft?"

ALL that said, I feel like Terrance West is *likely* a career backup that may be able to be a baseline starter in a pinch. I'm not sure if he's ever the difference making RB that a team fully commits to and doesn't look to upgrade in a year or two. That's a losing proposition in dynasty unless you time his selling point increidbly well. Otherwise he's layered with a very talented rookie somewhat unexpectedly (think Mason coming in behind Stacy). Then what?

IMO, the play, if you're going to take a shot on West, is to handcuff with Crowell. If Crowell gets his head on straight, he can be a top 10 RB in the league... and Kyle Shanahan's system is tailor made for elite RB production, espeically with the threat of a running QB. At their current prices though, if I'm forced to pick one... gimme Crowell on a dice roll.

 
In a bubble? or are we considering ADP/value?

I'd rather wait and take a mid round gamble on Crowell vs. a late 1st on West if that answers the question.
West is going late 2nd, while Crowell is going late 2nd, early 3rd.To me the easy decision is Crowell at those prices. I don't believe West is a threat to Ben Tate. Crowell is good enough to challenge for the starting spot (IMO) if he rights himself.

 
IMO Crowell clearly had the best tape of any back in this class. His tape from UGA was fantastic, and he still displayed the same skills at Alabama State, even if he didn't display consistent, elite-level effort at all times. The kid was trying to keep himself healthy, which one the one hand, I understand, and on the other I want to knock him for.

BUT, given he was clearly (IMO -- and in Waldman's opinion, and Silva's opinion, and others) the best RB in this class from a pure skill perspective, it's a HUGE red flag to me that he fell completely out of the draft. We've seen the red flag guys fall before, but when they're COMPLETELY out of the draft, that's a signal.

Evan Silva on a DLF podcast said something to the effect of, "How big of a turd do you have to be in the locker room, off the field, and just in general for a team to not even risk the cost of a 7th rounder on a guy with the best tape at the position in the draft?"

ALL that said, I feel like Terrance West is *likely* a career backup that may be able to be a baseline starter in a pinch. I'm not sure if he's ever the difference making RB that a team fully commits to and doesn't look to upgrade in a year or two. That's a losing proposition in dynasty unless you time his selling point increidbly well. Otherwise he's layered with a very talented rookie somewhat unexpectedly (think Mason coming in behind Stacy). Then what?

IMO, the play, if you're going to take a shot on West, is to handcuff with Crowell. If Crowell gets his head on straight, he can be a top 10 RB in the league... and Kyle Shanahan's system is tailor made for elite RB production, espeically with the threat of a running QB. At their current prices though, if I'm forced to pick one... gimme Crowell on a dice roll.
It couldn't possibly be that they all overestimated his talent, right?
 
Khy said:
My view?

I'm not a fan of either of them really. Crowell is clearly the better talent but he's a boob. And I don't think West is anything special. So my vote would ideally be neither, I'm avoiding them and letting someone else draft them or trading out of my spot to let someone else take them. If I had to pick one though? Crowell cause I think he's the only one with a real chance of being something if he can figure out his personal life issues.
I'm not a fan of either of them, either. I disagree that Crowell is clearly the better talent. He is a boob, though. Crowell has talent for sure. The talk of him being the best RB in this draft based on tape is ridiculous IMO. He's got solid game footage but not spectacular. Many are acting like this is a guy who has 1st round ability but feel only because of off field issues. Well, explain J. Hill then? He had several off field issues, similar to Crowell. He is supposed to be a worse RB prospect and yet he still got drafted in the 2nd, as the 2nd RB overall. The truth of the matter is Crowell is a boob with an over inflated perception of his ability among FFers. I'm probably one of them as well seeing I did expect him to get drafted and him falling out altogether is a surprise to me. Maybe he's good enough to beat out West for the backup position to Tate. I don't see some star in the making here though. The NFL is pretty good at this and when they allow a guy to go completely undrafted, it's not just a character problem. I'll take West given their price, which is remarkably similar. I'll allow the NFL evaluation of him being drafted in the 3rd round and Crowell not being drafted at all be my tie breaker. It's pretty realistic to draft both to be honest. Maybe that's the way to go. Just draft both and let it play out in TC.

 
IMO Crowell clearly had the best tape of any back in this class. His tape from UGA was fantastic, and he still displayed the same skills at Alabama State, even if he didn't display consistent, elite-level effort at all times. The kid was trying to keep himself healthy, which one the one hand, I understand, and on the other I want to knock him for.

BUT, given he was clearly (IMO -- and in Waldman's opinion, and Silva's opinion, and others) the best RB in this class from a pure skill perspective, it's a HUGE red flag to me that he fell completely out of the draft. We've seen the red flag guys fall before, but when they're COMPLETELY out of the draft, that's a signal.

Evan Silva on a DLF podcast said something to the effect of, "How big of a turd do you have to be in the locker room, off the field, and just in general for a team to not even risk the cost of a 7th rounder on a guy with the best tape at the position in the draft?"

ALL that said, I feel like Terrance West is *likely* a career backup that may be able to be a baseline starter in a pinch. I'm not sure if he's ever the difference making RB that a team fully commits to and doesn't look to upgrade in a year or two. That's a losing proposition in dynasty unless you time his selling point increidbly well. Otherwise he's layered with a very talented rookie somewhat unexpectedly (think Mason coming in behind Stacy). Then what?

IMO, the play, if you're going to take a shot on West, is to handcuff with Crowell. If Crowell gets his head on straight, he can be a top 10 RB in the league... and Kyle Shanahan's system is tailor made for elite RB production, espeically with the threat of a running QB. At their current prices though, if I'm forced to pick one... gimme Crowell on a dice roll.
It couldn't possibly be that they all overestimated his talent, right?
Sure - it absolutely could be. His freshman year tape from UGA is pretty remarkable IMO. What he put on tape at ASU not so much.

I do agree with your other statement that it does, IMO, speak volumes for Hill that despite similar off-field red flags he was still taken in the 2nd round as the 2nd back off the board, and was reportedly the top back for the Bengals to boot. Different thread for that discussion though.

 
After the Gordon thing, Cleveland isn't going to fool around... if Crowell gives them any type of a hard time hes cut.
Don't know why you say that, they're sticking by Gordon at this point. You are reaching with this comment.
wait till the suspension is announced... if its indef then I expect Cleveland to begin to distance themselves away from Gordon

 
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I took West in any league I could get him in. Think he has some good potential and will fit in nicely with Kyle Shanahan's offense. I don't think would've traded up to get him and not give him a shot at the lead back role. Sure Crowell seems talented, but he's got 2 guys in front of him plus all his off the field stuff. I'd much rather own West.

 
I like West.

Al Morris 2.0 in that offense.

I was targeting West in predrafts as a sleeper in the 3rd or 4th round of rookie drafts then he went to the browns and that went out the window.

I like em but he wont be on too many of my teams as hes going higher than I'd like

 
You guys are Nuts West will never be great, Career backup???? not that great??? where do you guys get this. He is Doug Martin 2.0 or Zac stacy with better hands. West will beat out Tate and Crowell Mark my words guys.

 
You guys are Nuts West will never be great, Career backup???? not that great??? where do you guys get this. He is Doug Martin 2.0 or Zac stacy with better hands. West will beat out Tate and Crowell Mark my words guys.
Okay Marked. Put it right in my calendar under "Schedule an oil change" and "Garbage day" now it says "T with T spoke the gospel that Terrance West would be Doug Martin 2.0"

 
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Crowell's best chance is to get dumped early like Da'Rick did. I don't see a roster spot for him outside of the practice squad.

 
I had Tate already and looked at West as the #2 regardless. I don't know if Crowell sticks in Cleveland but if/when he is cut for whatever reason then he gets a shot somewhere where he's not so far down the rotation. His talent may be undeniable but opportunity counts in the NFL.

 
Good discussion here.

The question is who is the Browns RB to own? The answers to choose from are West and Crowell.

Why would you not go with the RB with more talent? Or better skills regardless where or if they are drafted. Don't they have the better chance to be great?

:shrug:

 
I'm not sold Crowell has more talent. The NFL has proven that it doesn't really care about off field issues if a guy has talent. Ray Lewis, Dante Stallworth, and Mike Vick all KILLED people, and dogs, and still got to play football for lots of money.

If Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.

 
Good discussion here.

The question is who is the Browns RB to own? The answers to choose from are West and Crowell.

Why would you not go with the RB with more talent? Or better skills regardless where or if they are drafted. Don't they have the better chance to be great?

:shrug:
There is a pretty good chance the guy drafted, in the 3rd round mind you, is the better talent than the guy who was not drafted at all. A very good chance. The NFL is pretty good at this, much better than any of us and they actually spend money on it. If the gap in NFL valuation was a 5th rounder and a 6th rounder then the pro Crowell camp might have more substance to it. Off the field issues do not drop a player THAT much. We've seen it disproven time after time. Nobody in the Crowell is so talented camp can offer any explanation to J. Hill. That's because there isn't a logical explanation other than the fact that a whole lot of fantasy football guys on the internet over valued the evaluation of Crowell's talent. Perhaps the NFL has missed on him and he will turn into a great player. That's possible. The odds are heavily against that, though.
 
If I'm a NFL GM and I see a kid kicked out of the SEC - I thought you pretty much had to murder someone to get expelled from that conference - and then get his second chance and an opportunity to appreciate the mistakes and atone at ASU and then subsequently put forth what appears to be not really giving a damn there, I have a very tough time signing this guy no matter what skill set he has, and if I do sign him he's on an extraordinarily short leash.

That's my professional credibility on the line with a known substantial character issue guy who would not take full advantage of his second (realistically probably fifth or sixth) chance while I've got other guys to develop simultaneously - including a party boy QB - not to mention installing a new O, etc.

My guess is that the odds are pretty stacked against Crowell. I'm surprised at how high he's going in FF drafts, but there are always guys who will roll the dice for that lottery ticket that comes from nowhere and propels your team up multiple notches.

I drafted Da'Rick Rogers myself last year, but it was a full round after where Crowell is going and I was sold on Rogers' remorse over his past. I'm not sold on Crowell similarly. I also took Burfict in IDP drafts, but it was much later and personally I thought Burfict was a better LB pro prospect than Crowell is a pro RB prospect.

IMO that's a huge gamble with a 2nd rounder when there is at least one and possibly two fully capable guys there on CLE who could gobble up RB touches. Too much even for my proclivity to roll the dice. I'd have to side on going with West at nearly the same draft spot.

 
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If I'm a NFL GM and I see a kid kicked out of the SEC - I thought you pretty much had to murder someone to get expelled from that conference - and then get his second chance and an opportunity to appreciate the mistakes and atone at ASU and then subsequently put forth what appears to be not really giving a damn there, I have a very tough time signing this guy no matter what skill set he has, and if I do sign him he's on an extraordinarily short leash.

That's my professional credibility on the line with a known substantial character issue guy who would not take full advantage of his second (realistically probably fifth or sixth) chance while I've got other guys to develop simultaneously - including a party boy QB - not to mention installing a new O, etc.

My guess is that the odds are pretty stacked against Crowell. I'm surprised at how high he's going in FF drafts, but there are always guys who will roll the dice for that lottery ticket that comes from nowhere and propels your team up multiple notches.

I drafted Da'Rick Rogers myself last year, but it was a full round after where Crowell is going and I was sold on Rogers' remorse over his past. I'm not sold on Crowell similarly. I also took Burfict in IDP drafts, but it was much later and personally I thought Burfict was a better LB pro prospect than Crowell is a pro RB prospect.

IMO that's a huge gamble with a 2nd rounder when there is at least one and possibly two fully capable guys there on CLE who could gobble up RB touches. Too much even for my proclivity to roll the dice. I'd have to side on going with West at nearly the same draft spot.
good posting

I haven't seen an UDFA drafted in FF this high in ever

 
I'm happy to take risks on players that I can get for cheap. Crowell for me.
But the ADP's say the Crowell isn't cheap. Their ADP's are almost identical, with some leagues Crowell going ahead of West. To me, that is just insanity. He is an UDFA and West was drafted in the 3rd round, 6th RB off the board. When 32 teams pass on you, there are good reasons for that. Even as someone said, not taking a 7th round flyer on you. Crowell stuffs up once and he is gone. You'd have to think Colt Lyerla is in the same boat. His ADP has gone through the roof too but that is for another topic.

 
I think the real question here is why either one of these guys should be drafted before the third round of a rookie draft. If they both go higher than that in my drafts, then I simply won't be owning either of them.

Prefer Crowell's talent to West's if the option is there in the third round (but it likely won't be). In the third, I don't mind drafting guys like Crowell or Lyerla if the short-list of guys I'm interested in are all gone. If they hit, there's a chance they hit big. If they don't, it's usually an easy/early cut that allows me to free up a roster slot for something else. Perfect end of the bench types. Last thing I want is a long-term investment and/or low-ceiling guy in those slots.

If people reach for those guys in the second round, then I'll happily draft the guys higher on my list who fall as a result.

 
I'm not sold Crowell has more talent. The NFL has proven that it doesn't really care about off field issues if a guy has talent. Ray Lewis, Dante Stallworth, and Mike Vick all KILLED people, and dogs, and still got to play football for lots of money.

If Crowell had that much talent in the eyes of NFL scouts, he'd have been drafted.
This.

Add to it, the Browns traded up to get West, and the Ravens also tried to trade up to get him.

I'll put my trust in the NFL brass from these teams.

Answer = West.

 
I think the one question not asked is; would they have traded up for West if the knew they were going to be able to get Crowell (or any RB they liked later). It can't be answered because you go with the information you have at the moment. How many times do we have to have the "draft slot doesn't matter when they are on the field..." talk?

 
Draft slot matter because of the reasons Crowell fell. I don't think either has immediate value for redrafts so I am discussing dynasty. If Crowell was this first round talent or at least top 4 RB talent in this draft like many have stated, and nobody drafted him, then we have to look at why. If the reason is character issues, then we have to look at the Goodell NFL and play the odds. Odds are if he was THAT talented and slid THAT far, he's probably going to run afoul of the NFL Personal Conduct or Drug policies. The problem isn't if he does it this year when you have minimal investment. The problem is when he does it after you start counting on him.

I just got and offer from the Josh Gordon owner asking for my 16th overall Rookie pick. No way I'd take that right now. I value that pick too much despite the player being offered being such an excellent weapon. So here we have perhaps a top 5 NFL wide receiver whose value is completely cratered because of his behavior. But the bigger problem for the current owner in my league is that he's clogging up a roster spot right now and our draft is Wednesday. He's actually a liability right now instead of an asset.

I look at Crowell the same way. He could be Walter Payton but you will never be able to value him on your roster higher than an RB3 or RB4 no matter what he does. He could rush for 1500 yards and you might reap the rewards for a whole season. But then you dump Marhsawn Lynch for instance because he's getting old and you have this young stud. If you are now counting on Crowell as your bellcow and he gets into trouble, you now have to start a guy like Lamar Miller every week because you were shaping your roster around Crowell

 

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