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Save yourself or a stranger? (1 Viewer)

Would your decision change depending on the age of the other person (child vs. adult vs. elderly)

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 40.0%

  • No

    Votes: 63 60.0%
  • Total voters
    105
gianmarco

gianmarco

Footballguy
This is a spinoff of the Florida beach crash thread. It really got me thinking and I really have to think about this.

Forget being a pilot. Assume a scenario that you're driving a car and you have 5 seconds to make a decision with an inevitable accident. You will either kill some stranger as a result or you can perform an evasive maneuver that will save him but end your life. It is through no fault of yours (i.e., faulty brakes or something) so this is not as if you made a mistake to cause this situation.

Who would you save? Does it matter if you have a significant other, kids, other dependent family? Does it matter who the other person is (child vs. adult vs. elderly person)? Do you think you'd change your mind if you had time to think on it vs. having 5 seconds to decide?

To clarify, you will not be sued or brought on charges or arrested as a result of your decision.

P.S.--Adding dogs to the pole is not an option.

 
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Feel free to comment as well, but if you're married and have kids, how do you think your spouse would want you to answer?

 
the scene in my head this generated was my car won't stop as I am heading to the edge of a cliff....

my options:

A) I just drive off the cliff and die

B) I can steer into a wall that will stop my car and keep me from driving off the cliff and keep me alive.....but in doing so I run over a little kid and kill them before hitting the wall......

 
Some interesting results so far. Almost overwhelming to save yourself, but very large number that might change that if it were a child.

 
gianmarco said:
Some interesting results so far. Almost overwhelming to save yourself, but very large number that might change that if it were a child.
Click to expand...
I assume the people voting yes to the last question would hit the kid and save the old guy. Get off my lawn, twerp.

 
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I would try and miss a child and maybe a woman.. (if she is fat?)...but no doubt mow down an old person.

 
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I realize it's inconsistent, but if the question were more along the lines of "jump on this grenade and die, but save Sam who is 3 feet away and immobilized or jump over the wall to save yourself" I'd probably jump over that wall. But this poll is killing someone intentionally to save yourself. Same result, but to me there's a difference.

 
The average FBG kills strangers all the time when they're causing him to wait more than a couple of minutes at an intersection. Easy call here.

 
Look...I'm sure this comment will stir some feathers.

I really see only three reasons why anyone would vote "save a stranger."

1) Social perception - aka, I'm lying. If this happened in reality, I'd save myself, but I want to appear to be good, and being selfish is a frowned upon character trait, so I'll vote stranger, then tell everyone who said "self" is a bad person.

2) Strong religious beliefs - aka dying isn't that bad...there's the afterlife, and keeping a clean soul is important.

3) Suicidal already - aka saves me the trouble of buying a gun/some rope, etc. Win/win.

If you want to live, and you value living enough, then you save yourself. It's human survival.

 
In the fractions of a second that you have to react instinct will kick in and you will run over your own grandmother rather than drive off the cliff.

 
FUBAR said:
I realize it's inconsistent, but if the question were more along the lines of "jump on this grenade and die, but save Sam who is 3 feet away and immobilized or jump over the wall to save yourself" I'd probably jump over that wall. But this poll is killing someone intentionally to save yourself. Same result, but to me there's a difference.
Click to expand...
This is common, actually. I think there's a trolley car example or something.

Edit: yeah, that's it, The Trolley Problem.

 
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lod01 said:
Leroy Hoard said:
lod01 said:
TheIronSheik said:
Myself every time. And I wouldn't think twice about it.
Click to expand...
:thumbup: And sleep well at night.
Click to expand...
And if the mountain should crumble

Or I disappear into the sea

Not a tear, no not I
Click to expand...
Of course, I'm imagining a really fat stranger, in one of those rascals even though it is healthy enough to walk.
Click to expand...
matuski said:
I'd save Otis.
Click to expand...
We need an Otis option as it appears we have 1 kill and 1 save.

 
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)

 
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Yet we all hate going to your office.

 
In advance, I'd like to think I would save the stranger over myself. In a split-second survival-mode decision, I would assume that the natural instinct that would make the decision would be to save my own life.

 
Sarnoff said:
FUBAR said:
I realize it's inconsistent, but if the question were more along the lines of "jump on this grenade and die, but save Sam who is 3 feet away and immobilized or jump over the wall to save yourself" I'd probably jump over that wall. But this poll is killing someone intentionally to save yourself. Same result, but to me there's a difference.
Click to expand...
This is common, actually. I think there's a trolley car example or something.

Edit: yeah, that's it, The Trolley Problem.
Click to expand...
Not really the same, although there are similarities.

 
Fat Nick said:
Look...I'm sure this comment will stir some feathers.

I really see only three reasons why anyone would vote "save a stranger."

1) Social perception - aka, I'm lying. If this happened in reality, I'd save myself, but I want to appear to be good, and being selfish is a frowned upon character trait, so I'll vote stranger, then tell everyone who said "self" is a bad person.

2) Strong religious beliefs - aka dying isn't that bad...there's the afterlife, and keeping a clean soul is important.

3) Suicidal already - aka saves me the trouble of buying a gun/some rope, etc. Win/win.

If you want to live, and you value living enough, then you save yourself. It's human survival.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with your list of 3 but your last paragraph is inconsistent with #2.

Also some of us would live with knowing we killed someone who didn't have to die, the only reason he's dead is your selfish act.

That might be OK but it's a factor when we can sit back and discuss the scenario.

 
FUBAR said:
Fat Nick said:
Look...I'm sure this comment will stir some feathers.

I really see only three reasons why anyone would vote "save a stranger."

1) Social perception - aka, I'm lying. If this happened in reality, I'd save myself, but I want to appear to be good, and being selfish is a frowned upon character trait, so I'll vote stranger, then tell everyone who said "self" is a bad person.

2) Strong religious beliefs - aka dying isn't that bad...there's the afterlife, and keeping a clean soul is important.

3) Suicidal already - aka saves me the trouble of buying a gun/some rope, etc. Win/win.

If you want to live, and you value living enough, then you save yourself. It's human survival.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with your list of 3 but your last paragraph is inconsistent with #2.

Also some of us would live with knowing we killed someone who didn't have to die, the only reason he's dead is your selfish act.

That might be OK but it's a factor when we can sit back and discuss the scenario.
Click to expand...
Thats why, as I sit here now, I think I would choose to save the stranger - but I have the opportunity to reflect. In the moment, I suspect survival instincts take control and you will do what you think is necessary to preserve your own life, without considering the consequences.

 
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.

Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?

 
MC Gas Money said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.

Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?
Click to expand...
I see why you're saying, but I think if most were to make a list of criteria as to what makes a person "valuable" to society I would certainly think one's ability to medically help people would rank pretty high.

 
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
So does your decision change if you're driving around in the hotel parking lot of a dermatology convention?

 
I dont think that faced with an unfortunate life or death situation, choosing to save your own life rather than a strangers is in any way comparable to murder, or even neccessarily immoral.

Im getting the impression from this thread that a lot of people feel this way

I am curious why

 
TakiToki said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
So does your decision change if you're driving around in the hotel parking lot of a dermatology convention?
Click to expand...
yeah, then i'd off myself

 
Zow said:
MC Gas Money said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?
Click to expand...
I see why you're saying, but I think if most were to make a list of criteria as to what makes a person "valuable" to society I would certainly think one's ability to medically help people would rank pretty high.
Click to expand...
Would you agree that there are many other professons that perform tasks that are vital to peoples health that are not as obvious?

For example, a good health inspector preventd many illnesses and death. Law enforcers keep dangerous people off the street. People who devote time to charities help improve peoples lives. Even people who provide entertainment to others help reduce peoples stress and therefore their health.

And how can you overlook the impact scientists on the advancement of society, or even a good parent who raises well adjusted children that will become useful members of our civilization.

Obviously there are varying degrees of how beneficial these skills are, and some people are significantly better at their jobs thsn others, but I think you can say almost all professions have some positive influence by improving peoples lives even if not neccessarily saving lives.

How do we measure this?

 
Stinkin Ref said:
the scene in my head this generated was my car won't stop as I am heading to the edge of a cliff....

my options:

A) I just drive off the cliff and die

B) I can steer into a wall that will stop my car and keep me from driving off the cliff and keep me alive.....but in doing so I run over a little kid and kill them before hitting the wall......
Click to expand...
that kid better brace himself
 
Zow said:
MC Gas Money said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?
Click to expand...
I see why you're saying, but I think if most were to make a list of criteria as to what makes a person "valuable" to society I would certainly think one's ability to medically help people would rank pretty high.
Click to expand...
hes a ####in dentist
 
MC Gas Money said:
Zow said:
MC Gas Money said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?
Click to expand...
I see why you're saying, but I think if most were to make a list of criteria as to what makes a person "valuable" to society I would certainly think one's ability to medically help people would rank pretty high.
Click to expand...
Would you agree that there are many other professons that perform tasks that are vital to peoples health that are not as obvious?

For example, a good health inspector preventd many illnesses and death. Law enforcers keep dangerous people off the street. People who devote time to charities help improve peoples lives. Even people who provide entertainment to others help reduce peoples stress and therefore their health.

And how can you overlook the impact scientists on the advancement of society, or even a good parent who raises well adjusted children that will become useful members of our civilization.

Obviously there are varying degrees of how beneficial these skills are, and some people are significantly better at their jobs thsn others, but I think you can say almost all professions have some positive influence by improving peoples lives even if not neccessarily saving lives.

How do we measure this?
Click to expand...
I agree with what you are saying in principle

But for instance... out of the 400 million people in America... there are significantly more than have the mental capacity and discipline required to be a law enforcement person or a teacher than say a heart surgeon where only a select few people even if they had the drive and desire to do the job could handle the job mentally and physically.

So even if a great teacher has an impact on more lives than the heart surgeon might... the teacher is more replaceable than the heart surgeon... which is one of the main reason said heart surgeon makes a lot more money as well.

So the answer is you measure worth on the skill level and intelligence required to do the job and do it well. A lot of people can probably do an effective job teaching or enforcing law... far fewer can do a heart transplant, save a life, do a root canal, effectively manage pain, or fight cancer.

 
Dentist said:
MC Gas Money said:
Zow said:
MC Gas Money said:
Dentist said:
I'm more valuable to society than most other people... so on average I'd be doing society a favor most of the time by saving myself.

Sure there's a slim chance the other person may be more valuable than I am... but I'm playing the odds.

I'll feel pretty bad about it and it will probably wreck me psychologically for awhile, but I'd rather be psychologically wrecked and alive than 6 ft under (I think)
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are being somewhat sarcastic in the first two paragraphs.Im not saying I disagree with you, but among law abiding and moral people why do you feel that a medical professional is inherently more valuable than most other people?

What criteria do you use to measure a persons value?
Click to expand...
I see why you're saying, but I think if most were to make a list of criteria as to what makes a person "valuable" to society I would certainly think one's ability to medically help people would rank pretty high.
Click to expand...
Would you agree that there are many other professons that perform tasks that are vital to peoples health that are not as obvious?For example, a good health inspector preventd many illnesses and death. Law enforcers keep dangerous people off the street. People who devote time to charities help improve peoples lives. Even people who provide entertainment to others help reduce peoples stress and therefore their health.

And how can you overlook the impact scientists on the advancement of society, or even a good parent who raises well adjusted children that will become useful members of our civilization.

Obviously there are varying degrees of how beneficial these skills are, and some people are significantly better at their jobs thsn others, but I think you can say almost all professions have some positive influence by improving peoples lives even if not neccessarily saving lives.

How do we measure this?
Click to expand...
I agree with what you are saying in principle

But for instance... out of the 400 million people in America... there are significantly more than have the mental capacity and discipline required to be a law enforcement person or a teacher than say a heart surgeon where only a select few people even if they had the drive and desire to do the job could handle the job mentally and physically.

So even if a great teacher has an impact on more lives than the heart surgeon might... the teacher is more replaceable than the heart surgeon... which is one of the main reason said heart surgeon makes a lot more money as well.

So the answer is you measure worth on the skill level and intelligence required to do the job and do it well. A lot of people can probably do an effective job teaching or enforcing law... far fewer can do a heart transplant, save a life, do a root canal, effectively manage pain, or fight cancer.
Click to expand...
As I said, I don't disagree, but I dont think I completely agree either. There are certainly different degrees of value when taking in to account the criteria you mentioned.You do bring up an interesting question. As you said a surgeon takes a lot of training and a rare combination of natural abilities and traits that few possess. The surgeon is without a doubt is enormously important in very specific and dire circumstances and save lives,in sometimes in miraculous fashion, and are very difficult to replace.....

On the other hand though there are some people who have tremendously positive impact on the lives of many more people but in a much less noticeable and dramatic way and will often be viewed as mundane. Some of those people possess a no less unique set of qualities and in some instances no more easily replaceable than a great doctor, but it is more likely to be overlooked.

In all instances there are certain individuals who are irreplaceable.

Its an interesting thing to think about.

 
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