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Cam Newton another Vince Young? RGIII next? (1 Viewer)

ADP

ADP

Footballguy
Talent aside, neither of these QBs have the head to play the game it would seem. Vince Young appeared to be the next great NFL QB after his rookie season, then faced with tough times, he crashed and burned. Cam Newton, with his current state in NFL seems to be doing same thing. I think a lot of people give NFL execs grief over some of the tests they give these guys in the combine (interviews, Wonderlic), but it is obvious to me that these tests are critical to the success of a player, especially QB. No matter how much talent you have, if you don't have a good head on your shoulders, odds are you are not going to be successful.

These QBs come into the league their rookie year and have instant success. I think they believe this is what their entire career will be like. Is that the problem? Success to early? I know it sounds ridiculous to say QBs need to lose early in career, but I think there is some merit to it. Some players, be it QBs or any other position, need to be tested mentally early in their career in order to be great. They all have the physical gifts, but the great ones are gifted mentally.

RGIII is having a good year thus far and probably to early to bring him into this conversation, but the potential is there for him to go down the same path. I will say after hearing him talk, and understand his background, I don't beleive RGIII will go down this same path mentally, but just pointing out the potential is there.

I left Andrew Luck out of conversation as most beleive his game mentally is one of the best since Manning.

 
'ADP said:
Talent aside, neither of these QBs have the head to play the game it would seem. Vince Young appeared to be the next great NFL QB after his rookie season, then faced with tough times, he crashed and burned. Cam Newton, with his current state in NFL seems to be doing same thing. I think a lot of people give NFL execs grief over some of the tests they give these guys in the combine (interviews, Wonderlic), but it is obvious to me that these tests are critical to the success of a player, especially QB. No matter how much talent you have, if you don't have a good head on your shoulders, odds are you are not going to be successful.

These QBs come into the league their rookie year and have instant success. I think they believe this is what their entire career will be like. Is that the problem? Success to early? I know it sounds ridiculous to say QBs need to lose early in career, but I think there is some merit to it. Some players, be it QBs or any other position, need to be tested mentally early in their career in order to be great. They all have the physical gifts, but the great ones are gifted mentally.

RGIII is having a good year thus far and probably to early to bring him into this conversation, but the potential is there for him to go down the same path. I will say after hearing him talk, and understand his background, I don't beleive RGIII will go down this same path mentally, but just pointing out the potential is there.

I left Andrew Luck out of conversation as most beleive his game mentally is one of the best since Manning.
Click to expand...
You might wanna take another look at Vince Young's rookie stats.. because they certainly didn't suggest greatness was in his future.
 
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'Time Kibitzer said:
'ADP said:
Talent aside, neither of these QBs have the head to play the game it would seem. Vince Young appeared to be the next great NFL QB after his rookie season, then faced with tough times, he crashed and burned. Cam Newton, with his current state in NFL seems to be doing same thing. I think a lot of people give NFL execs grief over some of the tests they give these guys in the combine (interviews, Wonderlic), but it is obvious to me that these tests are critical to the success of a player, especially QB. No matter how much talent you have, if you don't have a good head on your shoulders, odds are you are not going to be successful.

These QBs come into the league their rookie year and have instant success. I think they believe this is what their entire career will be like. Is that the problem? Success to early? I know it sounds ridiculous to say QBs need to lose early in career, but I think there is some merit to it. Some players, be it QBs or any other position, need to be tested mentally early in their career in order to be great. They all have the physical gifts, but the great ones are gifted mentally.

RGIII is having a good year thus far and probably to early to bring him into this conversation, but the potential is there for him to go down the same path. I will say after hearing him talk, and understand his background, I don't beleive RGIII will go down this same path mentally, but just pointing out the potential is there.

I left Andrew Luck out of conversation as most beleive his game mentally is one of the best since Manning.
Click to expand...
You might wanna take another look at Vince Young's rookie stats.. because they certainly didn't suggest greatness was in his future.
Click to expand...
Not just about overall stats. Young was rookie of the year, set the rookie QB rushing record for QBs, four 4th qtr comebacks (8-5 as starter), made the pro bowl, and above all else, got the cover of Madden. That is success regardless of what his passing stats say.
 
Above all else the cover of Madden? That's how success is defined for QBs? I wonder if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning will ever make it in this league.

Vince Young was overhyped as a rookie and his draft stock rose from a late day 1 pick to surefire top 10 pick due to one game. Media hype fuelled the public perception of Youngs performance when the numbers never backed it up. The offence was dumbed down for him by the Titans coaches.

Now the media continues to pile on Cam as they have done since his college scandal days. He plays on a terrible team with worse coaches, yet because the media need a storyline they jump on some comments in a press conference...,.as if that ever won anybody a Super Bowl.

Terrible receivers, bad coaches, mediocre talent across the roster, lazy analysis from fans and media, one of the most talented QBs in the league facing ridiculous expectations......I think Mike Vick is a better comparison. Cam is a different style of player though, bigger and with a better head for the game. The Panthers made the right move in getting rid of Hurney. Now they need to draft some football players.

 
1) Have you seen RGIII play?

2) Given the totally different skill set, frame, running style, throwing motions, attributes and character, why would you compare RGIII to those other two?

3) What similarity spawns your question/concern?

 
Why is the potential for RG3 to follow the same path? Seems like you are basing this on race

 
Both Cam Newton and RGIII are amazing talents. Both can throw the ball really well, both have great feet and rushing ability. Both can tun negative plays into positive plays. And both have high football IQ's.

Vince Young was good on feet.

That was it.

No comparison.

 
I fought the fight against Young in his rookie year when many were crowning him. I think Cam is a lot better QB than Young and RG3 shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

RG3>>>Cam>>>>>>Young

 
At this stage Griffin looks to be a much better passer and has much more awareness in the pocket than Newton or Young. When the run is taken away Newton and Young struggled, Griffin can beat you with his arm.

When you add up ability + smarts + attitude Griffin wins hands down over Newton and Young.

 
I don't think people realize how deep Vince's issues were. He almost quit football when he was on top, after his rookie year. Later on he contemplated suicide.

 
There really aren't that many similarities between those 3 QB's other than mobility and race. Griffin is on the fast track to superstardom imo. Newton has the tools but not the maturity or leadership. Young was never an NFL caliber passer from the pocket. The Titans tried to fit a round peg into a square hole and when it didn't fit he completely lost his confidence.

 
'solorca said:
How would they compare to Mike Vick, Dante Culpepper, and Donovan Mcnabb?
Click to expand...
Good question. I'm also curious about how these young guys compare to Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Akili Smith, and JaMarcus Russell. What's the shark pool consensus? Who would RGIII be confused with the most in a crowd? Akili Smith? Or does he look more like Warren Moon?
 
'strong said:
'solorca said:
How would they compare to Mike Vick, Dante Culpepper, and Donovan Mcnabb?
Click to expand...
Good question. I'm also curious about how these young guys compare to Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Akili Smith, and JaMarcus Russell. What's the shark pool consensus? Who would RGIII be confused with the most in a crowd? Akili Smith? Or does he look more like Warren Moon?
Click to expand...
Aaron Brooks has to be part of this discussion.
 
'MAC_32 said:
Cam and Vince are both mental midgets.RG3 is the exact opposite.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: SPOT on. RG3 doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as those 2. He is a true leader, disciplined, and as bright as they come. Add in the off the charts athletic ability and you have the best QB prospect in the league in a LONG time.
 
Seriously, please do not compare RG3 to guys like Akili, Vick, and Purple Drank. Just because he's fast, strong, and black doesn't mean he's anything like any of these guys. QB is so much more neck up than any other position, none of these guys are in the same stratosphere as RG3 in that regard.

Cam? I won't go that far, I think he has head issues but not like these guys (they didn't put in the work, just looks like he has a fragile psyche) - if Cam doesn't pan out it will not be because of lack of effort like these schmo's.

Sometimes there aren't good comp's for players, and that's alright - let them write their own story.

 
'Da Guru said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Da Guru said:
Mentally Newton reminds me of Ryan Leaf.
Click to expand...
I don't get this. He isn't even in Philip Rivers/Jay Culter territory yet. And we're comparing him to potentially the biggest bust of all time? 6 games after the best rookie season ever?
Click to expand...
Body language/pouting is already in Jay Cutler territory.
Click to expand...
And if Cutler had rings, it would be: "Look how much he wants to win and hates losing." As it is with Tom Brady. Lets see if the kid can win in the NFL - he hasn't been broken yet, and might not be the leader that some great QBs have been. But he has won at every level, has the best rookie season ever under his belt, and has all the talent to do it.

Peolpe forget that Big Ben had major "leadership" issues...until he won a 2nd ring. Now he's a leader. Same with Eli.

Let's see if he can win; that's what history will remember and really what matters.

 
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'ADP said:
RGIII is having a good year thus far and probably to early to bring him into this conversation, but the potential is there for him to go down the same path. I will say after hearing him talk, and understand his background, I don't beleive RGIII will go down this same path mentally, but just pointing out the potential is there.
Click to expand...
:shock:
 
'ADP said:
Talent aside, neither of these QBs have the head to play the game it would seem. Vince Young appeared to be the next great NFL QB after his rookie season, then faced with tough times, he crashed and burned. Cam Newton, with his current state in NFL seems to be doing same thing. I think a lot of people give NFL execs grief over some of the tests they give these guys in the combine (interviews, Wonderlic), but it is obvious to me that these tests are critical to the success of a player, especially QB. No matter how much talent you have, if you don't have a good head on your shoulders, odds are you are not going to be successful.These QBs come into the league their rookie year and have instant success. I think they believe this is what their entire career will be like. Is that the problem? Success to early? I know it sounds ridiculous to say QBs need to lose early in career, but I think there is some merit to it. Some players, be it QBs or any other position, need to be tested mentally early in their career in order to be great. They all have the physical gifts, but the great ones are gifted mentally.RGIII is having a good year thus far and probably to early to bring him into this conversation, but the potential is there for him to go down the same path. I will say after hearing him talk, and understand his background, I don't beleive RGIII will go down this same path mentally, but just pointing out the potential is there.I left Andrew Luck out of conversation as most beleive his game mentally is one of the best since Manning.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'Da Guru said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Da Guru said:
Mentally Newton reminds me of Ryan Leaf.
Click to expand...
I don't get this. He isn't even in Philip Rivers/Jay Culter territory yet. And we're comparing him to potentially the biggest bust of all time? 6 games after the best rookie season ever?
Click to expand...
Body language/pouting is already in Jay Cutler territory.
Click to expand...
And if Cutler had rings, it would be: "Look how much he wants to win and hates losing." As it is with Tom Brady.
Click to expand...
That might be the media spin, but there's a huge difference in how they're viewed by their teammates, according to Ross Tucker (whose pretty good on this sort of thing). He says Brady's linemen would run through a wall if he asked them to, whereas Cutler's line doesn't like him at all.And on that subject, it would be interesting to know what Cam and RG3's lines think of them. I'd assume that RG3's linemen love him, just based on hearing him talk a few times--the guy seems smart, tough, and humble. Cam, I'm not so sure--having a team leader like Steve Smith call you out is a bad sign.
 
Recruited by Stanford, RG3 has excelled academically throughout high school and college. Not sure Cam or Uncle Rico can compare in any aspect aside from skin color.

BTW, did I miss the Kordell Stewart comparison?

 
'Quibbler said:
That might be the media spin, but there's a huge difference in how they're viewed by their teammates, according to Ross Tucker (whose pretty good on this sort of thing). He says Brady's linemen would run through a wall if he asked them to, whereas Cutler's line doesn't like him at all.And on that subject, it would be interesting to know what Cam and RG3's lines think of them. I'd assume that RG3's linemen love him, just based on hearing him talk a few times--the guy seems smart, tough, and humble. Cam, I'm not so sure--having a team leader like Steve Smith call you out is a bad sign.
Click to expand...
I am not suggesting there are not signs - I am suggesting that they have little to do with his future, IF he can win.Big Ben had more than one player call him out, including captains, AFTER he won a Super Bowl. But he was one of the best QBs in the NFL, which led to wins, which led to him being a leader. And I think the Smith spat had more to do with Smith being a hot head - Smith refused to leave the game after being asked to by the head coach, he threw a fit during the game, he celebrated a catch in garbage time, he called a young player out publically, and we don't seem to remember what Smith said. He called out Newton for not getting "metal reps" by watching the 2nd team play against a Giants team who called the dogs off. Forgive me for not calling Newton the next Ryan Leaf. Again - if he wins, this goes away.
 
'Banger said:
I fought the fight against Young in his rookie year when many were crowning him. I think Cam is a lot better QB than Young and RG3 shouldn't even be part of the discussion.RG3>>>Cam>>>>>>Young
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This nails it.Young couldn't pass and was a head case. Newton is currently inconsistent as passer (but has what it takes to fix it imo) but he is a head case, and RGIII can pass and is not a head case at all.The mental issues/attitude problems that Newton has will hold him back, RGIII is amazing...only injury is my concern with RGIII.
 
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'Banger said:
I fought the fight against Young in his rookie year when many were crowning him. I think Cam is a lot better QB than Young and RG3 shouldn't even be part of the discussion.RG3>>>Cam>>>>>>Young
Click to expand...
For S&G's can we slide Tebow into this equation? TIA
 
FWIW, Matt Waldman wrote an article a week or two ago about how RGIII has been staring down his receivers and how that might catch up with him. That said, he's put up outstanding passing numbers so far and was thought to be a much more polished passer than Newton when he came out of college.

 
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