TheBottomLine
Footballguy
I'd love an explanation as to why Telvin Smith isn't even on your list. Please explain. Holy ####, I'd like to use the content on footballguys for at least a little bit of help but it just seems so irrational.
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Norton Dynasty Ranks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TheBottomLine
- Start date
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
All he did was post 100 tackles as a ROOKIE after not even seeing full-time role until midway through season. He posted double-digit tackles in 4 of the last 6 games- 3 of the 4 he actually posted double digit solos. Averaged 11 tackles over that span. Sure, Pos is coming back, but your rankings go 60 deep and include plenty of guys with questionable roles going forward. I just do not understand it.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Think he just forgot some guys. Tulloch isn't in the top 60 either.
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
Yeah I dunno if they just threw the rankings on there to make it look like they took the time to produce it, or if he just accidentally missed multiple guys, or if he just doesn't think those guys belong on his rankings. Either way, I don't understand it.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I thought the FF season was over
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
J Giles Band
Footballguy
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
This is sort of a backdoor link but it works just fine. Can't find it by going through the FBGuys site, don't know if it's my computer or what.
http://www.footballguys.com/viewrankings-dynasty.php?viewpos=lb&howrecent=60
popsecret
Footballguy
Calm down, if you think Telvin Smith is a great player to have then keep him. Do you really need Daddy Norton to pat you on the back saying "i agree young one, Telvin is a great Dynasty option"
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
Nah that's just an example. Point is, I feel like his dynasty rankings aren't very well thought out. I play in dynasty and I pay for the content on here, albeit not a lot, and just feel like the site can do better. I don't have a problem with Norton and have no doubt he knows his stuff, just feel like the dynasty IDP content on here isn't great. You may think it's pointless but my leagues trade year-round and it's nice to have something to look at. Thankfully, Jeff Ratcliffe from PFF does a great job producing dynasty ranks.
Tick
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
Just some thoughts while looking at my own players on Norton's and PFF's rankings...
Carlos Dunlap doesn't feel as valuable as he keeps getting rated.
Big variance on Michael Johnson - 20 vs. 48
I only just thought about Mario Williams... hope he's not back to LB this year.
Vontaze Burfict is getting ranked higher than I would expect - not sure he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
Alec Ogletree 28 vs. 11 - very big difference there.
PFF seems to value youth more in dynasty IDP than Norton does... I agree more with Norton on that spectrum. Dansby, Derrick Johnson, Daryl Smith, Chad Greenway, and DeMeco Ryans jump out there.
I can't see how Norton can rank Greenway 17th - I can't see relying on him any more.
The three PFF guys are waaaay too close to each other in their rankings. Seems like one of them made rankings, then the other two shifted players up or down 2 spots to make theirs.
It seems like Norton can't quit Perry Riley.
PFF guys much higher on Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas - 32 vs. 9 and 44 vs. 11.
PFF guys giving Vaccaro a pass - 12th.
How does PFF put TJ Ward at 13th? I only barely decided to pick him up late in the season when someone dropped him.
Donte Whitner 57 vs. 16... I think I really like Norton's rankings a lot better at DB, even though PFF is ranking my guys higher.
I don't own him, but Eric Berry... he wasn't that great before his diagnosis, and they have him at 17th... can't remember where Norton had him.
Rashad Johnson 7 vs. 35 - big spread.
Carlos Dunlap doesn't feel as valuable as he keeps getting rated.
Big variance on Michael Johnson - 20 vs. 48
I only just thought about Mario Williams... hope he's not back to LB this year.
Vontaze Burfict is getting ranked higher than I would expect - not sure he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
Alec Ogletree 28 vs. 11 - very big difference there.
PFF seems to value youth more in dynasty IDP than Norton does... I agree more with Norton on that spectrum. Dansby, Derrick Johnson, Daryl Smith, Chad Greenway, and DeMeco Ryans jump out there.
I can't see how Norton can rank Greenway 17th - I can't see relying on him any more.
The three PFF guys are waaaay too close to each other in their rankings. Seems like one of them made rankings, then the other two shifted players up or down 2 spots to make theirs.
It seems like Norton can't quit Perry Riley.
PFF guys much higher on Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas - 32 vs. 9 and 44 vs. 11.
PFF guys giving Vaccaro a pass - 12th.
How does PFF put TJ Ward at 13th? I only barely decided to pick him up late in the season when someone dropped him.
Donte Whitner 57 vs. 16... I think I really like Norton's rankings a lot better at DB, even though PFF is ranking my guys higher.
I don't own him, but Eric Berry... he wasn't that great before his diagnosis, and they have him at 17th... can't remember where Norton had him.
Rashad Johnson 7 vs. 35 - big spread.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
This forum has always been way better than calling other writers "hacks." Jeff is a very good IDP writer and does great work. He's done extremely well in FantasyPros ranking comparisons over the years. You may disagree with his (or PFF's) methods, conclusions or rankings, but I'd absolutely include Jeff (and Ross Miles) among the best IDP writers in the industry. And I've never seen him be anything less than professional. So, no more posts like this, please.
While I shouldn't speak for John, a few other things of note...
1. We regularly goof up our rank lists. It's not intentional. It's because of the way we enter them into the database, which lends itself to missed players, copy-and-paste errors, etc. That database is essential -- it allows many of our tools to work. Still, those errors shouldn't be excused and we need to be more diligent about cross-checking our base rankings and making certain we've not omitted anyone.
2. I greatly appreciate when readers post, email or tweet any possible errors directly to me. It gives me a chance to correct an unknown error I've made or open a discussion that will help me better outline my reasons. Sometimes, that discussion changes my view on a player. Please, please send us a respectful note when you see something like the Telvin Smith omission. I'd bet John missed something in the rankings translation process there.
3. John and I know IDP dynasty rankings and content are an under-supported area at Footballguys. We also know that if we put up half-assed dynasty content just to say we have it, we will and should hear about it from our readers. Those of you who read our offseason and weekly content well know we don't do anything superficially or half-assed. So, I expect that John will be ready to defend (and correct) anything he's posted. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to add some IDP writers before next season to beef up all areas of our IDP content, including dynasty information.
In addition to using this thread to debate John's rankings, feel free to post other thoughts on the direction of our IDP content. Alternatively, email me or PM me through the message board. We greatly value all the feedback and continually represent the needs of our readers to David and Joe.
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
Thanks, Jene.
Tick
Footballguy
Jene, I agree that the work you guys do is always top-notch, and I don't really have any complaints about what you guys put out. Here's what I would want to see added to fill in some gaps - I know some of these are a ton of work, but I'm going to list them anyway:
- Dynasty coverage between week 16 and the Super Bowl. Rankings would be great, early projections would be ideal to take advantage of the automated tools.
- Weekly projections from more writers. The tools on the MyFBG page are so great once you have projections, I'd love to see more opinions to factor in.
- The ability to average projections in the weekly tools - I love seeing more opinions, but often I'd rather see an average sometimes.
- IDP integration into Rate My Team.
- Offseason projections from Jene. This one's weird, since I actually think the tiers you produce are a better way to look at IDPs in the offseason, but those tiers don't fit into the FBG database tools. If you did a simple fake projection like setting tier 1 guys to 150 points, tier 2 guys to 130 points, and tier 3 guys to 110 points, it would allow people to use tools that integrate with our leagues and show us which players are free agents.
- Selfishly, I'd like to see the Zealots calendar considered... I would guess that's the biggest single scoring system represented by the IDP readership, and I'd like to see a few articles tailored to that schedule. The Audible deep dive podcast is incredible, but I wish it happened just before week 13, when Zealots adds are stopped until late February. Some specifics:Some sort of rankings/projections between week 16 and the date when Zealots rosters get cut from 60 to 40 (Feb 19)
- Dynasty stash articles during week 12 before waivers are closed and no free agents can be added until late February.
krsone21
Footballguy
A lot of good stuff in here Tick.
popsecret
Footballguy
you misunderstand, I am not calling him a hack as much as I am praising Norton. I think most are hacks compared to him, because of how highly I place him.
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
Nah, you are underestimating Ratcliffe. I understand maybe I am also underestimating Norton. Either way, I never criticized his knowledge, moreso my displeasure with the IDP dynasty rankings. I'm sure the dude knows his stuff, just wonder how much effort is really placed into the rankings.
Ratcliffe seems to come up with some nice IDP dynasty rankings, but that's just my opinion.
Ratcliffe seems to come up with some nice IDP dynasty rankings, but that's just my opinion.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I love the "tiers" stuff that you do. I would love it if John did that format too, but straight rankings are useful as well.
The only problem is that (to my knowledge) there's no fixed place to find them. Since you write them in one of your weekly threads, if I want to refer back to them, I have to go digging through the weekly articles to find it. This issue is made worse by the fact that you do different positions different weeks, so if I'm looking to compare a DB pickup to a LB pickup as a stash, I have to open multiple pages looking for old articles to find the right ones. This is helped somewhat by you linking them here, but I would still love to see a fixed spot where you put these and update them when you can, just like rankings are done. Just like an IDP Tiers page, or whatever.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
Looks like there was an update a week after this thread was started.
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/viewrankings.php?viewpos=db&type=dynasty&howrecent=90
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/viewrankings.php?viewpos=db&type=dynasty&howrecent=90
Not a fan of Animal House, I guess.
