What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Epic Wheel of Fortune Dope & the Big Picture of American Education (1 Viewer)

S

Smack Tripper

Footballguy
So, this is must watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nztzwMiQTaI

So what we have here is a student from Indiana University answering puzzles on Wheel of Fortune. One is complete, he just has to read, and he pronounces "Achilles" as "A Chili's" and loses.

Then he has to answer a puzzle labeled "Person" with the lead "THE WORLDS FASTEST _A_ " and he guesses a "C". There's some more fail in there but anyway.

Ok, we have a laugh at this moron and away we go.

But... here's where it gets interesting to me...and I hate to extrapolate and isolate the anecdotal incidence of singling one guy out who may have had a bad day or what have you, but that said, this young man, Julian Batts, here's what IU put out about him

http://www.indiana.edu/~dema/news/items/batts_wheel_of_fortune.shtml

An Indiana University honors student fulfilled a lifelong dream of appearing on the iconic television game show "Wheel of Fortune."

Julian Batts, a Hudson and Holland Scholar, a Herbert Presidential Scholar and a Hutton Honors College student from Indianapolis, will appear on the show Friday, April 11, as part of its annual "College Week.

...

He participated in IU's Intensive Freshman Seminar program and the IU Beginnings program, which introduces a small group of students to recruiters from top companies that partner with the Kelley School of Business.

He also is the third generation of his family to attend IU, and both of his parents earned IU degrees.

....

On April 11, he looks forward to getting together with friends so they can see how well he did.

"Regardless of whatever is aired on TV, I am glad I did it. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was an experience I will never forget," he said.
Click to expand...
So we have here not just a college student, but apparently a guy who's been recognized and acknowledged as a "scholar" multiple times over. He is conceivably the best of best and IU is not a slouch institution. And again, to not pin too much on one kid, I do find him to be representative of the current crop of college students.

Because frankly in doing some hiring and talking and exchanging with the kids, its like the resume I read in no way matches the person sitting in the chair in front of me. We can debate the quality and state of education, but "on paper" more competitive to gain admittance than ever. Those applying to those higher end schools, maybe top 5-10 percent of schools light up the GPA, light up the SAT, ACT, what have you.

But I'm left wondering, what kind of smarts do these kids have when you really get down to it? What are these accolades and degrees worth if an honor student apparently has never had an exchange or discussion or just HEARD Achilles?

I can't tell you what a herculean effort it is to find a kid that can think on their feet.

And these degrees go for a quarter of a million dollars.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
We've developed a system to teach students how to take tests, rather than instilling a desire to learn.

 
There is you with your Eurocentric racist attitude. Achilles is a Greek god. This is another example of the white man holding down the minorities. The only thing interesting is I did not know Pat Sajak was The Man.

 
-jb- said:
We've developed a system to teach students how to take tests, rather than instilling a desire to learn.
Click to expand...
I think this is the bottom line, and with a state and federal mandate for educator evaluation to be so weighted to standardized tests, guess what kids got taught, how to pass standardized tests.

 
Smack Tripper said:
I do find him to be representative of the current crop of college students.
Click to expand...
So the one guy that's such an outlier amongst student Wheel participants that there is a hilarious youtube video about him is representive of the current crop of college students, not the other 99% of students that have appeared on that show and done fine?

I get your point, but it's a weird statement to make. If this guy were "normal" amongst college students then this video wouldn't exist. The girl to his right had no problem solving the puzzles and seemed to pretty clearly think the guy was an idiot compared to her typical peers.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Smack Tripper said:
I do find him to be representative of the current crop of college students.
Click to expand...
So the one guy that's such an outlier amongst student Wheel participants that there is a hilarious youtube video about him is representive of the current crop of college students, not the other 99% of students that have appeared on that show and done fine?

I get your point, but it's a weird statement to make. If this guy were "normal" amongst college students then this video wouldn't exist. The girl to his right had no problem solving the puzzles and seemed to pretty clearly think the guy was an idiot compared to her typical peers.
Click to expand...
I think on the whole, ON THE WHOLE, the last 3-4 years of kids have lacked any semblance of worldliness, critical thinking skills, and horse sense. This has been my experience, your mileage may vary. They are general proficient and adept at executing tasks as outlined and defined but I need workers that expect the unexpected and deal with it in a qualified, capable manner. Now, that is naturally a function of experience, but when I hired kids 5 years ago, there was a greater pool of people that came to work ready to do that. Every industry has its nuances that have to be learned on the job and no school can teach. I used to interview 5 people for a job and find a candidate, I now go through 12-15. And even then, it gets to be attrition and I'm not always happy with the candidate but how long can i interview for entry level-ish stuff, I need these kids to step in and assist and I'm wasting my time trying to find someone. And guys that are good get instantly promoted and I lose them.

I'm noticing a limited field of problem solving ability and on the whole. And, not inherently irrelevant to work, but not lost given my job requires an engagement with folks of many walks of life, these guys are simply not conversationally capable, ON THE WHOLE. Again, no where near as much in the numbers I used to get. I do think social media has sapped and strained some awareness on a broader field of knowledge. I generally as a human am trying to respect and see where that evolution takes us, but as an employer, when I have a kid with a 3.5 GPA not know who was president before Obama or who hasn't seen the Godfather or read Hemmingway.

I'm not saying you need to have all the knowledge at 22, but you should have started to get SOME of it, as far as being able to exchange on cultural touchstones. Or at least show a willingness to acquire this knowledge. But that is perhaps more of a personal perspective and not one essential to my role as an employer. But it would be nice.

 
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common culture No one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://ethicsalarms.com/2014/04/12/the-strange-sad-ominous-case-of-college-student-julian-batts-and-his-wheel-of-fortune-disaster/

Some questions, rhetorical among them, raised by this tragic episode:

  • Why would anyone hire someone like this, after this display of ignorance and pathetic reasoning abilities?
  • Why are college degrees considered any kind of prerequisite for a job, if someone like Julian can graduate with such inadequate knowledge and skills?
  • What do they teach in college? What do they teach in high school? What is regarded as an “education’ these days? The character of Achilles is a basic cultural point of reference; if one has never encountered his name to the extent that it is recognizable in print, then it is likely that the other basic knowledge and information missing is massive. I read about Achilles when I was nine. There are about six movies in which he is a character, the latest with him being portrayed by Brad Pitt. If you go through life with your eyes and ears open and the intellectual curiosity of a sea sponge, you should know who Achilles is.
  • At what point do we hold parents and teachers accountable for not teaching, and allowing children to grow up more ignorant than the graduates of one-room school houses on the prairie in the 19th Century?
  • What are all those scholarships and awards for that Julian won? What do they signify? If someone can be designated a “scholar” without knowing one of the major figures in Western literature, what does being a scholar mean now?
  • Isn’t this fraud on potential employers? Julian will have all these credentials, and yet he has gaps in his knowledge base that you can run a truck through, and apparently lacks problem solving skills that we should expect, but obviously can’t, to be possessed by the average fourth grader.
  • Why wasn’t Julian embarrassed? This is the really scary part of the story. He doesn’t even recognize what was wrong with his performance! he really thinks he’s educated, and ready to make his way in the world. If he was embarrassed, he might have the intellectual curiosity and pride to detect some urgency in learning what he doesn’t know, but he’s not. I bet he still can’t tell you who “A-CHill-US” is.
  • Isn’t this an unconscionable fraud on students? Isn’t it cruel to tell young men and women that they are educated, smart and remarkable when they are in fact ignorant, deluded, and cognitively deficient?
 
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common culture No one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?

 
A sample size of 1 nationally-televised performance seems like more than enough, I don't get your reason for hesitancy in your claims.

 
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common cultureNo one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?
Click to expand...
I'll take it if you can say Hemingway.

 
otello said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common cultureNo one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?
Click to expand...
I'll take it if you can say Hemingway.
Click to expand...
Which is useless knowledge. It's superficial.

 
Ilov80s said:
otello said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common cultureNo one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?
Click to expand...
I'll take it if you can say Hemingway.
Click to expand...
Which is useless knowledge. It's superficial.
Click to expand...
Ok. The ability to read is superficial.

 
otello said:
Ilov80s said:
otello said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common cultureNo one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?
Click to expand...
I'll take it if you can say Hemingway.
Click to expand...
Which is useless knowledge. It's superficial.
Click to expand...
Ok. The ability to read is superficial.
Click to expand...
No, it's very useful. I assumed you meant could name Hemingway as in knowing he was a famous author. If you just meant literally reading the word out loud and saying correctly, that's certainly useful.
 
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ilov80s said:
Why does it matter if they saw The Godfather of read The Sun Also Rises?
Click to expand...
Does any culture matter?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is great deal of culture. What you mean is the culture you like and have been influenced by.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. A basic knowledge in history And culture and Id add science, politics and religion allows one to better interact and entgae with the world they're entering. These basic elements serve as a dialogue with generations past. The godfather and Hemingway, to name the two things I pulled out, were well before my time. I'm giving this generation a pass on the classics, and restricting it to a manageable window of perspective. These are things that by most measure are the among the three finest authors and films, respectively we have had in America. These aren't obscure examples, these are part of a common cultureNo one is right or wrong for embracing these things. My greater point was, how and what do we consider this generations "scholars" to be at a major American institution.

You can tell me it's not it's not important but then tell me where this money is going and is it well spent?
Click to expand...
What % of Americans have read Hemingway? What % of Anericans could actually tell you how the Hemingway impacted their life or taught them some lesson of the human experience? I am not saying anything, I am just trying to figure out why you consider Godfather and Hemingway to be important. Ofcourse a basic understanding of art, politics, history, etc is important. My question is why is Godfather more important than Schindlers List or LA Confidential or any other movie? What it about Hemingway that makes his novels so much more important in life than Milan Kundera or David Eggers?
Click to expand...
I cite them as generalities and not part of some kind if American existence core curriculum. These two examples sprung to mind as part of a broader cultural illiteracy I've personally seen in younger people. If you have had a separate experience, that's great.

None of this is required or mandatory for human existence or living in the nation. You want a percentage, I don't know but I submit the answer would be or was in the not distant past more scholars and college graduates experienced these things than the general population which is also part of my point.

As I said originally, I don't expect everyone to know everything at 22 but I do expect in college students knowing SOME of this. Why is it more more important than Eggers? Because you are trying to connect with people when you graduate that are probably going to more connected to my examples or a broader history than recent contributions by Eggers (who I enjoy and I think will stand a test of time). As a young person you must play up, you can't expect those to be your senior professionally or socially to play down.

Life and death? No, but a lost art that merits mentioning in my mind.

Because when you acquire some base knowledge beyond your immediate radius, you don't get embarrassed on national television when you're functioning as a scholar.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
-jb- said:
We've developed a system to teach students how to take tests, rather than instilling a desire to learn.
Click to expand...
And this is the complete truth.

My wife is a special ed teacher grade 4-5. She does not get to teach her kids. She is a data collector that's it. All she does is test kids to figure out their needs for IEPs. Administer the CSAP which is the big deal test all students take. Every quarter each kid in the school is given diebels tests which ranks them in their class. This is all in addition to the regular tests we all took. Plus now this year there is a new test called the CMAS, which is a social studies test that the kids have to do entirely on a computer. Now some of my wife's students can barely read 20 words a minute because they are so impacted, but they are held to the same standard as the other kids.. This CMAS test is going to be a joke because her kids are not going to know the first thing about the Puritans or the origin of the Colorado flag, but most importantly, they don't know the keyboard well enough to type in a timed test environment. In addition, they have to cut and paste and click and drag items which none of these kids can grasp.

The worst part of this for my wife is one of the big areas on her performance eval is based on how these kids do, but Spec Ed kids are graded the same as regular kids. So all their results are going to come out low and non proficient. So she will be ranked a non proficient teacher and more than likely not get a salary step increase or even possibly not-renewed. She absolutely loves her kids and has been a teacher for a long, long time, but if she could quit tomorrow, she would.

 
And, not inherently irrelevant to work, but not lost given my job requires an engagement with folks of many walks of life, these guys are simply not conversationally capable, ON THE WHOLE.
Click to expand...
What do you expect from kids who grew up texting the person sitting next to them?

 
Courtjester said:
-jb- said:
We've developed a system to teach students how to take tests, rather than instilling a desire to learn.
Click to expand...
And this is the complete truth.

My wife is a special ed teacher grade 4-5. She does not get to teach her kids. She is a data collector that's it. All she does is test kids to figure out their needs for IEPs. Administer the CSAP which is the big deal test all students take. Every quarter each kid in the school is given diebels tests which ranks them in their class. This is all in addition to the regular tests we all took. Plus now this year there is a new test called the CMAS, which is a social studies test that the kids have to do entirely on a computer. Now some of my wife's students can barely read 20 words a minute because they are so impacted, but they are held to the same standard as the other kids.. This CMAS test is going to be a joke because her kids are not going to know the first thing about the Puritans or the origin of the Colorado flag, but most importantly, they don't know the keyboard well enough to type in a timed test environment. In addition, they have to cut and paste and click and drag items which none of these kids can grasp.

The worst part of this for my wife is one of the big areas on her performance eval is based on how these kids do, but Spec Ed kids are graded the same as regular kids. So all their results are going to come out low and non proficient. So she will be ranked a non proficient teacher and more than likely not get a salary step increase or even possibly not-renewed. She absolutely loves her kids and has been a teacher for a long, long time, but if she could quit tomorrow, she would.
Click to expand...
Wow, that is so messed up. The kids who need the help the most are getting screwed over since no good teacher wants to stay in that job.

 
What do they teach in college? What do they teach in high school? What is regarded as an “education’ these days? The character of Achilles is a basic cultural point of reference; if one has never encountered his name to the extent that it is recognizable in print, then it is likely that the other basic knowledge and information missing is massive. I read about Achilles when I was nine. There are about six movies in which he is a character, the latest with him being portrayed by Brad Pitt. If you go through life with your eyes and ears open and the intellectual curiosity of a sea sponge, you should know who Achilles is.
Click to expand...
Forget all that, it's a part of the human anatomy.

 
I seriously can't believe you guys are discussing anything in here other than ON THE SPOT DICESPIN and the subsequent complete look of shock in his face when Pat told him he was wrong. :lmao:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
College is not about being smart. The value of college to an employer is to prove that you can follow through and complete major goals.

His Wheel results are embarrassing from an intellectual point of view, but I'm not sure its a big deal.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joe Bryant
  • Poll
Are You In Favor Of Not Allowing Social Media For Young People?
4 5 6
Replies
255
Views
4K
Rich Conway
R
Ministry of Pain
***CFP National Championship - Washington 14-0 vs Michigan 14-0*** (-5.5, 55.5) 7:45
2
Replies
59
Views
1K
Ilov80s
Ilov80s
C
Health Insurance Cost Question
Replies
1
Views
241
belljr
belljr

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top