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Combined Projections (1 Viewer)

nole man

Footballguy
Hi. IDP Newb here (have been playing fantasy football for 10 years, have experience there, just not IDP!). First time in a league like this with a bunch of sharks, so I need some advice.

What I want to know are there projections/draft cheat sheets etc. that combine both player types?

In other words, where would a Luke Kuechly or a JJ Watt typically go in an experienced league? I'm reading 6-8 maybe for example, and only after there are no other RBs or WRs you'd want there.

Love the site and have subscribed for years. I see various PPR projections and ADPs, and I see IDP projections and ADPs. But not combined so you can get a feel for when a defensive player ought to be considered versus an offensive one.

Realize there are a lot of variables like size of league, scoring, roster size etc. Just looking for some general starting points.

Thanks!

 
A combined is really hard to do, since it all comes down so much to different scoring leagues, amount of starting positions etc.

 
Thanks for the reply!

What I'm struggling with now is where, in the scheme of things, should a defensive player should hit the radar. This league doesn't really over-reward big plays, so tackles/sacks/interceptions are all pretty much equally weighted.



 
Welcome to IPD! I've been doing fantasy football for about 28 years now and each year has been IDP so to me there is no other way.

You are right there are a lot of variables that go into when to take IDP players like league scoring, how many players, are you in a keeper or dynasty league, etc. I prefer a tiered approach to all of my drafts as a guideline but always use commons sense to avoid being on the wrong side of a run.

You should examine the scoring by position throughout the league and see where the best of each position scores, where the average of each scores, and where the worst starter scores, then compare those values. Years ago I was in a league where people didn't take IDP's seriously and they would be drafting 3rd and 4th WR while prime LB's where still there. When people started realizing that the Hardy Nickerson's and Ray Lewis's of the world were outscoring those WR's then the league eventually corrected itself. But it was good while it lasted.

Here are some observations that I see:

Look where the top defensive scorers would be and draft accordingly. It is always great to have a stud at every position. To me, Luke Keuchley and JJ Watt are worth early picks because they are young, consistent, in systems that benefit their statistics, and not in much danger of competition from their own teammates (Jadeveon Clowney notwithstanding). So if you had a choice between let's say a Torrey Smith and Keuchley or Watt? I'm taking the defensive player every time.

Speaking of systems, here is a rule of thumb: teams with the worst offenses produce high scorers on defense. Fantasy is about the best stats not the best players. So when you have a horrorshow of an offense like the Raiders, guys like Nick Roach and Charles Woodson put up good numbers. Think Kiko Alonso (dang! I have him in three leagues and can't hold him over anymore!) These aren't the type of players that will be taken early, but if you carefully examine the teams as a whole, it isn't too difficult to stock your team with players that have great opportunity to outscore their draft positions in the back half of the draft.

Pick up defensive linemen early. They are the scarcest position in all of fantasy football. Consider that JJ Watt is a freak of a 3-4 end with only guys like Cameron Jordan being close to stats. Then consider how many teams have changed to a 3-4 and subsequently eliminated the rush end in favor of a rush LB. Guys like Clowney who are ends to Buddy Ryan are OLB to guys like the Harbaughs. I would say that in a re-draft league I would try to acquire one stud LB and one stud DL by the time my starting offense was drafted.

Rookie Linebackers. It seems that every year there is at least one stud rookie LB that emerges. In the past three seasons respectively it was Luke Keuchley, Lavonte David, and Kiko Alonso. They all finished with big years and could be the cornerstone of a defense for years providing health stays good. I drafted Alonso early in three leagues last year and I only knew 2 things about him: he was an every-down linebacker and he was a rookie starter. So you should take a shot at a rookie LB because one blows up every year. This year's crop has plenty of guys who could fit that bill.

Every Down Linebackers. There is a great list that goes on the IDP forum and it helps a lot. Seems simple when you think about it and I don't know why many people don't think about it. LB's that are on the field more get more stats! I love looking for LB's that are good in coverage as they stay on in sub-packages. Last year that is what drove me to Kiko Alonso; but Danny Trevathan, a very inexpensive guy who blew up week one, also had this characteristic and was snatched on every waiver wire that I know of by the end of the first Thursday game of the season. Guys who are good in coverage are out there more and make tackles not in the run game. If for some reason you have a rush LB that is "every down" that is a good thing, too.

Rush Linebackers. This is tricky but can be a big thing. They are typically every down LB's but don't go into coverage. So they need to bring it in a big way. I find these guys are good in the like the 3rd or 4th spot and can really help out with big weeks. Think Aldon Smith, Von Miller and Terrell Suggs. They may not score every week, but every now and again they make the old sack, forced fumble, fumble recovery, and (sometimes) touchdown. Big plays like this from the back half of your starting lineup can win games and win championships. But I would caution you not to load up on these guys too early. Every name I just mentioned has had injury or off-the-field concerns. It seems like the rock start linebackers sometimes live too much like a rock start and that catches up with them. But if you can snake out one of these guys later they can blow up. I remember years ago I had James Harrison pegged in every league as a guy that "if he produces in week 1 then I was going to jump on him everywhere." He had just won the job as the starter. His first game he had 4 solos, 4 assists, and 2 sacks. I picked him up after week 1 in like 4 leagues and he went on to win the NFL Defensive MVP and had a very respectable career. Definitely the exception not the rule but for a week 1 waiver wire pick up he became a monster.

Hopefully this gives you a few tips. They don't use words like Average Draft Position but I follow those metrics as well. Show up prepared, look at tiers, and when the meat and potatoes of the draft is done you can find gems that help your defense be great and help you win that fantasy trophy!

The Hellion

 
We need much more information here. Keuchly or Watt at #6 or 8 overall? No way, unless your scoring system is completely balanced and top DE/LB can scoring on par with the top 3-5 HB/WR's. Most leagues are weighted toward offense. In a typical league like that, the first defender doesn't really come off the board until around round 4-5. Someone posted that they will take a top LB over a guy like Torrey Smith every time. That's a statement you just can't make in a vacuum. It is very very very easy to pick defenders up off the waivers wire during the season.

Give us the scoring system and we can help more.

 
Thanks. Was able to find one of the more competitive IDP league's sites from last year and looked at their draft and final scoring results. Top IDP players (Watts / Kuechly) were generally going rounds 3-5 in that scoring format with 4 different conferences. 22 IDP picks went in the first 100 picks in the most competitive conference.

Gives me a gauge for what they'll likely do this year.

Final Scoring system is TB. Last year was standard looking PPR (1 point for receiving). TD-6.

Tackles - 2. Interceptions - 4. Sacks - 3. Safeties - 4.

Here's other info for now.

Again, great stuff and thanks all for posting. Good tips.

II. ROSTERS

A. Rosters are limited to 20 players.
B. Rosters are limited to 4 QB, 6 RB, 8 WR, 4 TE, 3 K, 5 DL, 5 LB, 5 DB
C. Two sets of player pools will be used. The AFC will use one pool and the NFC will use the others. Players cannot transfer from one pool to the other.

III. STARTING LINEUPS
A. Each team must consist of the following starting lineup during each week of the season:
13 total starters
1 QB
1 RB
2 WR
1 TE
1 Flex (RB or WR)
1 K
2 DL (DT or DE)
2 LB
2 DB (CB or S)
B. If no lineup is submitted by a team, their previous week’s lineup will be used.

 
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We need much more information here. Keuchly or Watt at #6 or 8 overall? No way, unless your scoring system is completely balanced and top DE/LB can scoring on par with the top 3-5 HB/WR's. Most leagues are weighted toward offense. In a typical league like that, the first defender doesn't really come off the board until around round 4-5. Someone posted that they will take a top LB over a guy like Torrey Smith every time. That's a statement you just can't make in a vacuum. It is very very very easy to pick defenders up off the waivers wire during the season.

Give us the scoring system and we can help more.
Absolutely not unless you are only starting something like 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB. Waiver wire is bare in all my leagues, even the 12 teams ones but we are starting at least 9 guys if not 11 every week. So besides scoring we need to know your line-ups and positions, DB or CBs and and S, etc.

 
TBH, spending a 3,4,5 round pick on a LB'er, no matter how good a LB'er is, is never worth it. There are just too many good LB'ers that can be found later on. Now a DE named Watt would be worth it as long as DE's score enough. Otherwise, my advice would be to stock up on offense and not take any IDP until round 8 at least. If other teams are taking defenders in round 3 and 4, then that just means that offensive guys that should be off the board will be available for you to draft. After the draft is over, you'll find those teams that invested in IDP too early will be weak on offense and will be easy trade partners, meanwhile you'll have a solid offense and you'll be able to score solid defenders which will be plenty good enough to stay competitive.

 
So I never said spend the 6th or 8th pick in the draft for Watt or Keuchly. That is crazy. I did say get them before Torey Smith.

The league scoring I would refer to is like this. It's been like this since 1986 so the scoring may be a little different that what folks are used to. Basically we are a 16 team IDP league where you start 11 IDP.

16 total team

1 B, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 OL, 1 K

3-4 DL, 3-4 LB, 3-4 DB You start 11 total IPD's.

38 total roster spots plus 5 IR so it gets slim pickings.

League allows for 1 offensive and 1 defensive keeper every year with an expansion draft beforehand in case you want to go back to square one building your team.

For individual scoring, let's just say it is balanced between tackles and sack/ints. We use passed defensed as well.

Offensively is not a PPR league but bonus for many receptions. This would be a TD heavy league but with bonus points for yardage over certain levels. Rushing TD's 6 while passing and throwing TD's are 3.

Typically QB's score most, then RB's, WR's and the defensive guys. But the high-flyers on D are pretty high - there are just more WR's that score more.

Last year in this league Torrey Smith scored 44 points for the 30th ranked WR. JJ Watt scored 62 points for #2 at DL while Keuchley scored 44 points for #12 among LB's in what many would consider a down year. JJ Watt and Luke Keuchly were defensive holdovers while Torrey Smith was taken Round 5 Pick 3 or 37th overall right after Roddy White and right before Dwayne Bowe.

I think the most important thing is to understand the scoring system; where the top guys finish; and where the middle guys finish. 2 seasons ago JJ Watt had over 100 points and outscored every WR except Megatron.

The waiver wire isn't one where you can just grab a great defensive player every week. There are always guys who emerge but it is open waivers so first come first serve. Sometimes guys are picked up in the midst of their breakout game in the NFL because the league is ultra-competitive and you have to take shots to get great guys.

So with the effect of one holdover on each side of the ball, and with the top end scoring being close, most guys who have won the league multiple times (like your truly) try to take shots on those defensive studs that don't get held over.

Great discussion - isn't it football time soon?

 
Yeah I just re-read. "even the 12 team leagues" that's pretty funny from my perspective. The smallest IDP league I'm in is 12 with a 14 and then 3 15 team leagues. Crazy, I know, but its what we have built over almost 30 years!

 

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