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Geno Smith...The write off has already started, but wait... (1 Viewer)

Carter_Can_Fly

Footballguy
Some where along the line Geno has gotten a bad rap as a player and his character was brought into question. This all stemmed from the draft day debacle which was completely over blown and over scrutinized. I think many are selling Geno short both in NFL terms and charcter terms. He is not only an extremely hard worker, but he is someone who is in the film room a lot. He is willing to grind and work hard and he has always been that way. He was well respect in high school and hung out with all groups of people and he was often questioned by his football guys for giving the so called nerds some of his hang out time.

I am willing to give Geno a pass for year one playing with one of the worst offensive situations a rookie could face. I think the true character of Geno shined through in the last month of the season when he had one of the best QB ratings in the NFL and won 3 of his last 4 games.

Geno had every opportunity to shut down. I mean his leading WR's and TE's were beyond bad. Geno's number 1 WR last year was Jeremy Kerley. I mean seriously how many veteran QB's are going to be successful with Kerley as the lead guy. Not one starting WR on the Jets last year played more then 12 games. The second leading WR with the Jets last year was David Nelson. David fricken Nelson. He also had to throw to the sweet TE combo of a washed up Kellen Winslow Jr and Jeff Cumberland. Veteran and often hurt Holmes barely played. Stephen Hill is a bust. This had the recipe of a disaster from the get go yet Geno hung in there.

I get that Geno was a part of the problem with the offense last year, but I think any NFL QB would have struggled with the Jets let alone a rookie QB. Geno has a lot to learn and he has to get better, but many expect Vick to win out in camp, but I don't think this is the case. Geno played through injury and poor play last year. I think that will go along way in his development. He has not backed down from the challenge of Vick coming to town. He has embraced the challenge and said he can learn a lot from Vick. I think far too many due to the NY circus media are throwing Geno under the bus and don't really know who he is or actually how brutal that situation was last year in NY.

I am interested to see how things play out for Geno going forward. The Jets have signed Decker and Chris Johnson who will both help the Jets offense. I am guessing they will add a couple of other pieces via the draft, but things are looking much brighter this year heading into the season than last. Count me in the corner that thinks Geno Smith is going to be a decent NFL qb.

 
Geno's problem is he on a team under a regime that has proven incapable of developing anything on offense. He has the skill set and mental makeup to succeed, but he has no chance if his coaches can't get him to that spot to succeed.

Maybe once he's out from the Rex regime he'll get another shot.

 
GordonGekko said:
As of now, Geno Smith is IMHO a player who can, most of the time, give you something when something is given by the defense, he is not, however, a player who can give you something out of nothing. This is a trait that separates the elite tier of QB1s from the middle of the pack and replacement level QB1s. A prime Tom Brady or Drew Brees, despite a tight defense and given a situation where most QB1s would get nothing, would find a way to turn hot dogs into steak.

The critical issue for Geno Smith is ball security. The Jet's defense is very very very close to being completely lethal. Much is made of the vaunted Seahawks D, but Rex Ryan is building something truly deadly in NY, that defensive line is no joke. It's young, it's talented, it's committed to Ryan and his scheme and they can dance with anyone. If you can consistently disrupt the line of scrimmage, play after play, and game after game, you can beat any team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what they use offensively, doesn't matter what they throw at you, all that matters is no elite offense is going to do much with their QB1 and RB1 face down in the dirt.

Ryan wants, and the team is ideally suited for, a power rushing assault. To win, the Jets need to try to play mistake free football, let their offense chew clock and wear down the other defense and then let their defense loose to sow havoc and mayhem. Geno Smith has to hold onto the ball and he has to be able to produce like an effective bench player, go long stretches where he's not critical to the offense then go and hit a key third down pass in a tough situation.

Vick can't read a defense, he can't look off a safety, he can't really go down his list of progressions, and he's lost his safety valve in Jason Kelce. Personally I find Nick Mangold to be overrated in the middle and he's simply not the kind of player who can help Vick the way some centers help their QB1s to excel. Vick is older, lost a step, smallish and has small hands. The benefit to Vick is he can mask a mediocre offense and a team that has O line issues. On the flip side, Vick coughing up the ball will expose the defense. When the key to your team is your defense, you need them rested and paced throughout the season. You can't keep asking them to lose the TOP battle and grind out 40 minutes a game stopping the other team.

Critically, while people will talk about Decker, the key skill player on offense will still be Kerley. A young QB1 needs a safety valve. Kerley is not a game breaker and he has no homerun ability, but he's where he is supposed to be and he's consistent in terms of what he can do.

Geno Smith, to help this team, needs to hold onto the football and he needs to consistently make good decisions in the pocket. This is not a team built with a large margin for error and will suffer all season if it loses the turnover differential battle. But he also needs to start operating like an NBA bench reserve and not an NFL starter. In the NBA, you can sit cold for a long time, then you have to jump into the game, and heat up and be productive in limited spurts. This is not an offense where Smith is going to get 55 throws a game to get into offensive rhythm. If you consider his game splits, opposing defenses were able to regroup and readjust post half time on Smith quite a bit. Part of being a solid QB1 is being able to keep pace with the move/countermove nature of the game. As defenses adjust, Smith must counter and readjust. I could care less who else is on the field, a QB1s ability to adapt quickly and seamlessly is something you can judge on individual merit.

As for Smith and his off the field perception and possible glitches, the moderate answer is the truth usually dances in the middle of things. The team wins and he does the job, it's great deodorant to a lot of things. They don't and he doesn't, then he stinks and all those other issues take more spotlight.

As for Smith the prospect, you have to be patient and see in Year 3 what you have. I doubt we are looking at an elite QB1 prospect, a top 5 beefeater here. But there's no reason he can't have a long and productive and winning career with the Jets with some development and good coaching and some help on the roster.

No one has written this kid off. He will get his shot. Vick will either break something or his turnovers will drive his coaches mad. The key is Smith not trying to win the game by himself or take that mentality. Hold onto the rock, make good decisions, know how to excel in limited spots and keep lock step to defensive adjustments. The key for Smith is to understand his job is to get in the endzone just enough and stay on the field just enough to keep his defense lethal.
The 35 minutes you took to write this could've been much better spent.

 
Paulymaggs said:
GordonGekko said:
As of now, Geno Smith is IMHO a player who can, most of the time, give you something when something is given by the defense, he is not, however, a player who can give you something out of nothing. This is a trait that separates the elite tier of QB1s from the middle of the pack and replacement level QB1s. A prime Tom Brady or Drew Brees, despite a tight defense and given a situation where most QB1s would get nothing, would find a way to turn hot dogs into steak.

The critical issue for Geno Smith is ball security. The Jet's defense is very very very close to being completely lethal. Much is made of the vaunted Seahawks D, but Rex Ryan is building something truly deadly in NY, that defensive line is no joke. It's young, it's talented, it's committed to Ryan and his scheme and they can dance with anyone. If you can consistently disrupt the line of scrimmage, play after play, and game after game, you can beat any team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what they use offensively, doesn't matter what they throw at you, all that matters is no elite offense is going to do much with their QB1 and RB1 face down in the dirt.

Ryan wants, and the team is ideally suited for, a power rushing assault. To win, the Jets need to try to play mistake free football, let their offense chew clock and wear down the other defense and then let their defense loose to sow havoc and mayhem. Geno Smith has to hold onto the ball and he has to be able to produce like an effective bench player, go long stretches where he's not critical to the offense then go and hit a key third down pass in a tough situation.

Vick can't read a defense, he can't look off a safety, he can't really go down his list of progressions, and he's lost his safety valve in Jason Kelce. Personally I find Nick Mangold to be overrated in the middle and he's simply not the kind of player who can help Vick the way some centers help their QB1s to excel. Vick is older, lost a step, smallish and has small hands. The benefit to Vick is he can mask a mediocre offense and a team that has O line issues. On the flip side, Vick coughing up the ball will expose the defense. When the key to your team is your defense, you need them rested and paced throughout the season. You can't keep asking them to lose the TOP battle and grind out 40 minutes a game stopping the other team.

Critically, while people will talk about Decker, the key skill player on offense will still be Kerley. A young QB1 needs a safety valve. Kerley is not a game breaker and he has no homerun ability, but he's where he is supposed to be and he's consistent in terms of what he can do.

Geno Smith, to help this team, needs to hold onto the football and he needs to consistently make good decisions in the pocket. This is not a team built with a large margin for error and will suffer all season if it loses the turnover differential battle. But he also needs to start operating like an NBA bench reserve and not an NFL starter. In the NBA, you can sit cold for a long time, then you have to jump into the game, and heat up and be productive in limited spurts. This is not an offense where Smith is going to get 55 throws a game to get into offensive rhythm. If you consider his game splits, opposing defenses were able to regroup and readjust post half time on Smith quite a bit. Part of being a solid QB1 is being able to keep pace with the move/countermove nature of the game. As defenses adjust, Smith must counter and readjust. I could care less who else is on the field, a QB1s ability to adapt quickly and seamlessly is something you can judge on individual merit.

As for Smith and his off the field perception and possible glitches, the moderate answer is the truth usually dances in the middle of things. The team wins and he does the job, it's great deodorant to a lot of things. They don't and he doesn't, then he stinks and all those other issues take more spotlight.

As for Smith the prospect, you have to be patient and see in Year 3 what you have. I doubt we are looking at an elite QB1 prospect, a top 5 beefeater here. But there's no reason he can't have a long and productive and winning career with the Jets with some development and good coaching and some help on the roster.

No one has written this kid off. He will get his shot. Vick will either break something or his turnovers will drive his coaches mad. The key is Smith not trying to win the game by himself or take that mentality. Hold onto the rock, make good decisions, know how to excel in limited spots and keep lock step to defensive adjustments. The key for Smith is to understand his job is to get in the endzone just enough and stay on the field just enough to keep his defense lethal.
The 35 minutes you took to write this could've been much better spent.
The hate GG gets on this forum is shameful. At least he puts thought, reason and insight into his analyses. Agree with him or not, you should respect that. The two seconds you took to talk smack could've been MUCH better spent.

 
Paulymaggs said:
GordonGekko said:
As of now, Geno Smith is IMHO a player who can, most of the time, give you something when something is given by the defense, he is not, however, a player who can give you something out of nothing. This is a trait that separates the elite tier of QB1s from the middle of the pack and replacement level QB1s. A prime Tom Brady or Drew Brees, despite a tight defense and given a situation where most QB1s would get nothing, would find a way to turn hot dogs into steak.

The critical issue for Geno Smith is ball security. The Jet's defense is very very very close to being completely lethal. Much is made of the vaunted Seahawks D, but Rex Ryan is building something truly deadly in NY, that defensive line is no joke. It's young, it's talented, it's committed to Ryan and his scheme and they can dance with anyone. If you can consistently disrupt the line of scrimmage, play after play, and game after game, you can beat any team in the NFL. Doesn't matter what they use offensively, doesn't matter what they throw at you, all that matters is no elite offense is going to do much with their QB1 and RB1 face down in the dirt.

Ryan wants, and the team is ideally suited for, a power rushing assault. To win, the Jets need to try to play mistake free football, let their offense chew clock and wear down the other defense and then let their defense loose to sow havoc and mayhem. Geno Smith has to hold onto the ball and he has to be able to produce like an effective bench player, go long stretches where he's not critical to the offense then go and hit a key third down pass in a tough situation.

Vick can't read a defense, he can't look off a safety, he can't really go down his list of progressions, and he's lost his safety valve in Jason Kelce. Personally I find Nick Mangold to be overrated in the middle and he's simply not the kind of player who can help Vick the way some centers help their QB1s to excel. Vick is older, lost a step, smallish and has small hands. The benefit to Vick is he can mask a mediocre offense and a team that has O line issues. On the flip side, Vick coughing up the ball will expose the defense. When the key to your team is your defense, you need them rested and paced throughout the season. You can't keep asking them to lose the TOP battle and grind out 40 minutes a game stopping the other team.

Critically, while people will talk about Decker, the key skill player on offense will still be Kerley. A young QB1 needs a safety valve. Kerley is not a game breaker and he has no homerun ability, but he's where he is supposed to be and he's consistent in terms of what he can do.

Geno Smith, to help this team, needs to hold onto the football and he needs to consistently make good decisions in the pocket. This is not a team built with a large margin for error and will suffer all season if it loses the turnover differential battle. But he also needs to start operating like an NBA bench reserve and not an NFL starter. In the NBA, you can sit cold for a long time, then you have to jump into the game, and heat up and be productive in limited spurts. This is not an offense where Smith is going to get 55 throws a game to get into offensive rhythm. If you consider his game splits, opposing defenses were able to regroup and readjust post half time on Smith quite a bit. Part of being a solid QB1 is being able to keep pace with the move/countermove nature of the game. As defenses adjust, Smith must counter and readjust. I could care less who else is on the field, a QB1s ability to adapt quickly and seamlessly is something you can judge on individual merit.

As for Smith and his off the field perception and possible glitches, the moderate answer is the truth usually dances in the middle of things. The team wins and he does the job, it's great deodorant to a lot of things. They don't and he doesn't, then he stinks and all those other issues take more spotlight.

As for Smith the prospect, you have to be patient and see in Year 3 what you have. I doubt we are looking at an elite QB1 prospect, a top 5 beefeater here. But there's no reason he can't have a long and productive and winning career with the Jets with some development and good coaching and some help on the roster.

No one has written this kid off. He will get his shot. Vick will either break something or his turnovers will drive his coaches mad. The key is Smith not trying to win the game by himself or take that mentality. Hold onto the rock, make good decisions, know how to excel in limited spots and keep lock step to defensive adjustments. The key for Smith is to understand his job is to get in the endzone just enough and stay on the field just enough to keep his defense lethal.
The 35 minutes you took to write this could've been much better spent.
The hate GG gets on this forum is shameful. At least he puts thought, reason and insight into his analyses. Agree with him or not, you should respect that. The two seconds you took to talk smack could've been MUCH better spent.
Good posting. I found it to be a good read.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Most coaches of young QB's keep the reads simple then expand as they prove they're capable, but the Jets chose not to. EJ Manuel was far from successful, but his coaches put multiple WR's in the same eye line as Manuel, just at different levels. Makes it a lot easier for the QB to read the defense. Master that art then add another element. Think the Jets did that with Geno? Nah. Props to Geno for making something out of a bad situation and improving towards the end of the season despite his coaches not putting him in a position to succeed.

 
Lates update is Geno Smith has the early lead in this battle and is first behind center. Mornhinweg stated Geno progressed beautifully over the last quarter of the season.

 
There's too much of an instant gratification mentality in the NFL (and the world). Some QBs come into the league more pro ready than others, some get coached up better once they arrive than others. To give up on Smith because he didn't succeed immediately would be a mistake and I'm glad Mornhinweg can see that. Will Geno eventually succeed? We don't know yet, but there just hasn't been enough of a chance yet to know. They need to give Smith this season to improve and develop, and see where they are then. Going with Vick would be a step backwards for the franchise.

 
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You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
Have you studied the film that closely? If so can you please explain these stats to me. On the season Geno struggled throwing the ball, this is not in question. He had a 51% completion percentage on the year with 21 ints which is bad. However, in the last 4 weeks he threw for a 59% completion rate and only had 2 ints. Now 59% still needs work, but it was 8 percent higher than his season average. There was obviously better play in that last month of the season both in completion percentage and taking care of the ball.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
That's just not true. He had a couple bad misses that stick out (one against the Dolphins in the last game of the year when David Nelson was open on the goal line) but he did play a lot better last year. More to the point, "growth" in his context also refers to not turning the ball over so much. The Jets will have a good defense this year and avoiding turnovers will be a huge need for whoever's the QB.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
Have you studied the film that closely? If so can you please explain these stats to me. On the season Geno struggled throwing the ball, this is not in question. He had a 51% completion percentage on the year with 21 ints which is bad. However, in the last 4 weeks he threw for a 59% completion rate and only had 2 ints. Now 59% still needs work, but it was 8 percent higher than his season average. There was obviously better play in that last month of the season both in completion percentage and taking care of the ball.
You have to watch the games. Not much I can say. Week 17 vs Mia is a meaningless game.

Week 16 was nothing but short passes vs Cle w/o Hadden. He can't work the intermediate-deep levels at all. His accuracy, timing, touch, arm stregth ect fails when attempting those passes. That's why I called him Blain Gabbert.

Week 14 One not awful game vs Oak does not validate Geno Smith. Check out the TD pass to Kerley and tell me what you think. Really, count how many defenders are in coverage when he threw that pass. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293945/Kerley-25-yard-touchdown-catch The defenders didn't even react to the short pass because it's covered. Some how it's completed and he's credited for his maturity? You spent like 2 paragraph on how bad his weapons are, but I'll give Kerley the credit for adjusting on that play. A wash at best.

Playing QB this way catches up to you, just like it did Fitzpatrick, or a Matt Moore, or how it will with Josh McCown.. or any other young QB that gets off to a hot start. Eventually they'll flame out. We might as well defend Baine Gabbert's Rookie year too.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
Have you studied the film that closely? If so can you please explain these stats to me. On the season Geno struggled throwing the ball, this is not in question. He had a 51% completion percentage on the year with 21 ints which is bad. However, in the last 4 weeks he threw for a 59% completion rate and only had 2 ints. Now 59% still needs work, but it was 8 percent higher than his season average. There was obviously better play in that last month of the season both in completion percentage and taking care of the ball.
You have to watch the games. Not much I can say.Week 17 vs Mia is a meaningless game.

Week 16 was nothing but short passes vs Cle w/o Hadden. He can't work the intermediate-deep levels at all. His accuracy, timing, touch, arm stregth ect fails when attempting those passes. That's why I called him Blain Gabbert.

Week 14 One not awful game vs Oak does not validate Geno Smith. Check out the TD pass to Kerley and tell me what you think. Really, count how many defenders are in coverage when he threw that pass. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293945/Kerley-25-yard-touchdown-catch The defenders didn't even react to the short pass because it's covered. Some how it's completed and he's credited for his maturity? You spent like 2 paragraph on how bad his weapons are, but I'll give Kerley the credit for adjusting on that play. A wash at best.

Playing QB this way catches up to you, just like it did Fitzpatrick, or a Matt Moore, or how it will with Josh McCown.. or any other young QB that gets off to a hot start. Eventually they'll flame out. We might as well defend Baine Gabbert's Rookie year too.
Fitzpatrick, Moore, and McCown were not day 1 rookie starters and never had chances to be starters till 4 plus years into their careers. I don't get how they are comparable to what Geno did as a rookie this year with the Jets.

Gabbert has not shown any growth through his first 3 years in the NFL, let alone his last 4 games as a rookie.

You are exactly what I am referring to when I say many have written Geno off too soon with what I find inadequate evidence to do so. You are spinning anything he did positive into a negative. I have continuously said he needs to become a more complete and efficient passing QB which I think he has the work ethic and athletic ability to do so. Time will tell.

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
Have you studied the film that closely? If so can you please explain these stats to me. On the season Geno struggled throwing the ball, this is not in question. He had a 51% completion percentage on the year with 21 ints which is bad. However, in the last 4 weeks he threw for a 59% completion rate and only had 2 ints. Now 59% still needs work, but it was 8 percent higher than his season average. There was obviously better play in that last month of the season both in completion percentage and taking care of the ball.
You have to watch the games. Not much I can say. Week 17 vs Mia is a meaningless game.

Week 16 was nothing but short passes vs Cle w/o Hadden. He can't work the intermediate-deep levels at all. His accuracy, timing, touch, arm stregth ect fails when attempting those passes. That's why I called him Blain Gabbert.

Week 14 One not awful game vs Oak does not validate Geno Smith. Check out the TD pass to Kerley and tell me what you think. Really, count how many defenders are in coverage when he threw that pass. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293945/Kerley-25-yard-touchdown-catch The defenders didn't even react to the short pass because it's covered. Some how it's completed and he's credited for his maturity? You spent like 2 paragraph on how bad his weapons are, but I'll give Kerley the credit for adjusting on that play. A wash at best.

Playing QB this way catches up to you, just like it did Fitzpatrick, or a Matt Moore, or how it will with Josh McCown.. or any other young QB that gets off to a hot start. Eventually they'll flame out. We might as well defend Baine Gabbert's Rookie year too.
Think that had anything to do with him trying to be a little too perfect? You know, because he was throwing to the (hands down) worst collection of WRs in the league, and had to place the ball in certain areas because they could not seperate? Or because these awesome WRs maybe messed up the routes at times?

 
You guys really overrate Geno Smith last 4 games. The stats were pure luck where his RECIEVERS made plays. He was not disecting defenses and making good throws, not even close actually.
Receivers are paid to make plays. He is a rookie who is learning to disect and read defenses. The last month of the year was his most consistent play. Was it great? I would not catergorize it as great. But the growth definitely shows optimism.
Until you actually watch him throw the ball nowhere close to his WRs.
Have you studied the film that closely? If so can you please explain these stats to me. On the season Geno struggled throwing the ball, this is not in question. He had a 51% completion percentage on the year with 21 ints which is bad. However, in the last 4 weeks he threw for a 59% completion rate and only had 2 ints. Now 59% still needs work, but it was 8 percent higher than his season average. There was obviously better play in that last month of the season both in completion percentage and taking care of the ball.
You have to watch the games. Not much I can say.Week 17 vs Mia is a meaningless game.

Week 16 was nothing but short passes vs Cle w/o Hadden. He can't work the intermediate-deep levels at all. His accuracy, timing, touch, arm stregth ect fails when attempting those passes. That's why I called him Blain Gabbert.

Week 14 One not awful game vs Oak does not validate Geno Smith. Check out the TD pass to Kerley and tell me what you think. Really, count how many defenders are in coverage when he threw that pass. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293945/Kerley-25-yard-touchdown-catch The defenders didn't even react to the short pass because it's covered. Some how it's completed and he's credited for his maturity? You spent like 2 paragraph on how bad his weapons are, but I'll give Kerley the credit for adjusting on that play. A wash at best.

Playing QB this way catches up to you, just like it did Fitzpatrick, or a Matt Moore, or how it will with Josh McCown.. or any other young QB that gets off to a hot start. Eventually they'll flame out. We might as well defend Baine Gabbert's Rookie year too.
Fitzpatrick, Moore, and McCown were not day 1 rookie starters and never had chances to be starters till 4 plus years into their careers. I don't get how they are comparable to what Geno did as a rookie this year with the Jets.Gabbert has not shown any growth through his first 3 years in the NFL, let alone his last 4 games as a rookie.

You are exactly what I am referring to when I say many have written Geno off too soon with what I find inadequate evidence to do so. You are spinning anything he did positive into a negative. I have continuously said he needs to become a more complete and efficient passing QB which I think he has the work ethic and athletic ability to do so. Time will tell.
Dismiss the statement about other QBs then. I was just naming QB who caught hype that shared some of the same flaws. I wrote Geno off since college for the record lol. He's done nothing to prove me wrong. If meaningless week 17 games, Cle - their best defender, and the 2013 Raiders leave you optomistic then lets see what happends the rest of his career. You have my take. Gabbert did improve. Most QBs improve from year 1-2. He just still sucked. I expected the same from Geno, except he has legs to go with bad QB play.

And what positives? I know the numbers, watched the games, and heard the argument 100x's. His plays are more in the "that should of, could of" been picked off variety (like they were all season). He's not working the whole field and finding holes in he defenses. I can show you dozens of passes that were thrown 5-10 yards away from any of his teammates (Tebow-like) or they bounced off defenders hands during that stretch. I don't just boxscore scout. You have to put the numbers into context. I'm not spinning anything.

PFF gave him 3 positive grades from weeks 1-16. Week 3 the Bills gave up 100 yards and a TD to Steven Hill. That's even more odd than giving up 300+ yards and mulit-TD's to Geno. Week 14 and 16 I already gave my take. The rest of his numbers are blood red. Who's nitpicking and lacking evidence here?

 
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ShaHBucks, you've discounted the week 17 performance twice now as 'meaningless' but that wasn't the case. The 20-7 win was over Miami, who would have made the playoffs with a win. The Dolphins were not putting scrubs out there, they were desperately trying to win. Sometimes I think you try way too hard to win an argument and throw crap out there that just isn't accurate.

 
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GordonGekko said:
mphtrilogy said:
All signs by coaching staff want geno to start.

We shall see
All signs indicate that Rex Ryan is under immense pressure this season to make a strong showing and/or make a playoff berth/push or it will end up being his job. What saved him this last offseason was the raw demand for his services. While people can ( and there's argument for it) question his acumen as a head coach, no one, not even Patriot homers, not even the most Sky Is Falling Jets fans tend to question his defensive pedigree. The guy can flat out coach and build a defense. He's good enough where other teams would fire their existing D coordinator and eat salary for a defensive staff turnover just to get the upside of a Ryan to run their D. I'm not sure you can say that about anyone else in the league in terms of defense.

Vick, by all accounts, is seen as a good leader and a good locker room guy. His existence with Nick Foles was seen as, a bit strange, symbiotic instead of competitive. I don't think it's such a horrible idea to have Vick start the season, ease some pressure off of Smith, let Smith immerse a little more as a young player without the pressure, and have a mentor who has won before. Vick isn't going to help show him how to decipher a defense, but he can offer how to prepare and model himself as a professional (I'm talking Philly Vick, not Atlanta Vick) Once Vick turns it over enough and/or breaks something like his shoulder, as he's prone to do, then Smith can take over.

For a team in turmoil, a good locker room veteran can offer a lot of balance and stability. Jason Kidd was known for his ability to galvanize a team long after his actual playing skill had far eroded.

I don't see Vick as a bad signing. And I don't think one year is a full indictment on Geno Smith, I'm just not ready to personally firebomb his career in my eyes just yet. But I also don't buy into the "He's Got No Weapons/His Coaches Suck Balls" angle either. For a young guy, his first year, try to look at his mechanics, his footwork, weight transfer, balance, his ability to command the pocket, whether he can operate at NFL game speed, how he can sense the pass rush and buy himself time, etc. Worry about a rookie who has zero fundamentals, other than that, only time and experience can tell with some players.

Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl ( I'm not saying Smith will have Wilson's career or win a ring), but he's not a Top 5 QB1, what he did offer as a young player to give hope is good fundamentals - primary building blocks that you can add on game experience and hopefully sound coaching to develop the player. If Smith had extremely sub standard footwork, I'd start to worry. If his throwing motion was enlongated or had a hitch, I'd worry. If he had absolutely zero command of his pocket, I'd worry. Right now, Smith from an individual fundamental standpoint has shown enough, IMHO, to be a Wait And See.

From scuttlebutt I hear from league sources, the guy is actually a giant jack off as a person. But we aren't judging his ability to mingle at a Xmas party are we? Sometimes the best way to be objective on a player is to isolate him out of his circumstances and see if he has the functional capacity to be developed.
I agree w/ some of what you wrote, but the 'no weapons' argument is legitimate. When Jeff Cumberland is your best offensive weapon, you've got problems. Adding CJ, Decker and some draft picks is going to make a difference.

 
ShaHBucks, you've discounted the week 17 performance twice now as 'meaningless' but that wasn't the case. The 20-7 win was over Miami, who would have made the playoffs with a win. The Dolphins were not putting scrubs out there, they were desperately trying to win. Sometimes I think you try way too hard to win an argument and throw crap out there that just isn't accurate.
You can say what you want. This isn't much of an argument to me. I don't count week 17 games as establishing some new level of consistency for any player. I'm pretty fair and consistent with counting week 17 as an statistical anomaly for a number of reasons that I'm not going to repeat annually. You never have/never will hear me speak outside of weeks 1-16 statistically. But lets have fun with it, I guess. Weeks 13-17 Geno Smith as a passer had 2 games <60% comp, 1 game with multiple TDs, 2 games without a turnover, and 0 games over 250 passing yards. We can forget what I see on film for now. What in those numbers suggest that we could all be missing out on a young QB ready to break out?

Weeks 1-12: 54.74 cmp%, 188 ypg, .66 TD, 1.58 INT, 6.89 Y/A

Weeks 13-17: 58.62 cmp%, 197.5 ypg, 1 TD, .5 INT, 6.81 Y/A

I guess he did improve...

Weeks 1-8: 59.29 cmp%, 235.25 ypg, 1 TD, 1.63 INT, 7.4 Y/A

or not?? Here is some more crap. This is what happends when you start using short routs and get lucky with near picks. I watched the guy play and didn't see him doing anything different than he had all season. The maturity you think you see from boxscore scouting will have Geno out of the league soon.

 
The locker room will want Vick. Maybe the Jets start Grno week 1, but I am confident Geno will not make it 8 games.
I'm confident Vick won't either. So i guess that leaves us with whoever the 3rd string qb is.
I will not disagree with that because the Jets could be terrible this year. However, Vick will bring the leadership. Many of the young guys in the NFL grew up idolizing Vick. Foles was better than Vick. Geno is not. He has shown enough to show that he is not special. Vick can be a stopgap.

 
ShaBucks for someone who despises Geno as a player and seeing as you are a Philly fan, you seemed to have watch a lot of Jets and Geno this season. We are going to agree to disagree until we see more of what happens with some NFL experience and better players on offense for Geno to work with. Time will tell.

 
So, week 17 is ignored in all cases whether it means something to the defense he is playing against or not. Got it. It doesn't fit the convenient little parameter you've set up.

And the fact that he played like a rookie for the first 12 games isn't OK, even though he was a rookie... with his #1 WR on the shelf most of the season with a foot injury and his #2 WR completely incapable of being a starter in the NFL. Yet somehow he was supposed to put up stellar numbers and not throw INTs. I wonder what his numbers would have been like with Demaryius Thomas and Decker and Welker out there instead of Hill and Nelson and Kerley?

We get it ShaHBucks, you hate him, end of story. I'll argue not further since it's pointless.

 
Geno's problem is he on a team under a regime that has proven incapable of developing anything on offense. He has the skill set and mental makeup to succeed, but he has no chance if his coaches can't get him to that spot to succeed.

Maybe once he's out from the Rex regime he'll get another shot.
The Offense coaches and GM are entirely New....

Marty Morninwheg has some proven success as developing an offense...

We'll see what happens but, IMO the Jets shakeup last year had everything to do with changing what you just wrote and how they screwed up on Offense royally since the Sanchez draft.....

Also Schottenheimer was a disaster - I'd take your thoughts over to the STL thread and warn them.

Great article on how Schottenheimer ruins careers.http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/73320714/will-the-st-louis-rams-draft-a-quarterback-to-replace-sam-bradford

 
So, week 17 is ignored in all cases whether it means something to the defense he is playing against or not. Got it. It doesn't fit the convenient little parameter you've set up.

And the fact that he played like a rookie for the first 12 games isn't OK, even though he was a rookie... with his #1 WR on the shelf most of the season with a foot injury and his #2 WR completely incapable of being a starter in the NFL. Yet somehow he was supposed to put up stellar numbers and not throw INTs. I wonder what his numbers would have been like with Demaryius Thomas and Decker and Welker out there instead of Hill and Nelson and Kerley?

We get it ShaHBucks, you hate him, end of story. I'll argue not further since it's pointless.
Hey QB's are a crapshoot more than anything and I can't bet my house on Geno. Hey look at this 14' draft - ppl don't know wtf to do with these QB's that were supposed to be better...

BUT,

funny I was listening to Sirius NFL yesterday and Ross Tucker was going off on how Geno will never be more than mediocre and not as good as Bradford...

Meanwhile mid season he was tweeting stuff like this:

"3 leading receivers for Jets yesterday , with 2 recs each: Salas, Sudfeld, Cribbs weren't even on team until Oct"

Salas, Sudfled and Cribbs???????? Can the average NFL fan in a bar even name these 3????

Even the Great Kerely was in and out of the lineup and hobbled at times...

I just laugh when ppl make cracks about how bad the talent is on a team on 1 hand then can be so Positive that they can analyze how the individual talent will or will not succeed.... To me, Jets or not - I view ANY rookie 1st season QB under those circumstances as a COMPLETE wash....

If Any QB in the history of QB's should have sat for a while, IMO it was Geno - Guy barely even took snaps under center in college - Every expert said he needed to sit - yet he gets thrown in with that mess around him and ppl can absolutely declare him a bust - #### I just don't do that... I'm old school, QB's get time...

Even funnier - I heard Rich Gannon say Geno would never progress - a Freaking QB that took like 15 years to develop is going to tell a guy after 1 battered year what's up.....lol

I don't think Geno gets credit enough for the beating he took last year.....

PPL say he was indecisive - Well YEAH, many weeks he had guys running routes off the street - If a WR isn't where he's supposed to be you just might hold the ball a little...

OL also had breakdons and Jail breaks - 1st play VS Buffalo Geno took a helmet to the ribs - He was rocked all game...

Interesting his play picked up again when he had 3 reliable wr's playing consecutive weeks - Next year's talent will be a lot better so, we'll see.....

 
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So, week 17 is ignored in all cases whether it means something to the defense he is playing against or not. Got it. It doesn't fit the convenient little parameter you've set up.

And the fact that he played like a rookie for the first 12 games isn't OK, even though he was a rookie... with his #1 WR on the shelf most of the season with a foot injury and his #2 WR completely incapable of being a starter in the NFL. Yet somehow he was supposed to put up stellar numbers and not throw INTs. I wonder what his numbers would have been like with Demaryius Thomas and Decker and Welker out there instead of Hill and Nelson and Kerley?

We get it ShaHBucks, you hate him, end of story. I'll argue not further since it's pointless.
Hey QB's are a crapshoot more than anything and I can't bet my house on Geno. Hey look at this 14' draft - ppl don't know wtf to do with these QB's that were supposed to be better...

BUT,

funny I was listening to Sirius NFL yesterday and Ross Tucker was going off on how Geno will never be more than mediocre and not as good as Bradford...

Meanwhile mid season he was tweeting stuff like this:

"3 leading receivers for Jets yesterday , with 2 recs each: Salas, Sudfeld, Cribbs weren't even on team until Oct"

Salas, Sudfled and Cribbs???????? Can the average NFL fan in a bar even name these 3????

Even the Great Kerely was in and out of the lineup and hobbled at times...

I just laugh when ppl make cracks about how bad the talent is on a team on 1 hand then can be so Positive that they can analyze how the individual talent will or will not succeed.... To me, Jets or not - I view ANY rookie 1st season QB under those circumstances as a COMPLETE wash....

If Any QB in the history of QB's should have sat for a while, IMO it was Geno - Guy barely even took snaps under center in college - Every expert said he needed to sit - yet he gets thrown in with that mess around him and ppl can absolutely declare him a bust - #### I just don't do that... I'm old school, QB's get time...

Even funnier - I heard Rich Gannon say Geno would never progress - a Freaking QB that took like 15 years to develop is going to tell a guy after 1 battered year what's up.....lol

I don't think Geno gets credit enough for the beating he took last year.....

PPL say he was indecisive - Well YEAH, many weeks he had guys running routes off the street - If a WR isn't where he's supposed to be you just might hold the ball a little...

OL also had breakdons and Jail breaks - 1st play VS Buffalo Geno took a helmet to the ribs - He was rocked all game...

Interesting his play picked up again when he had 3 reliable wr's playing consecutive weeks - Next year's talent will be a lot better so, we'll see.....
I agree with this whole heartedly.

 
Eli Manning was worse than Geno his rookie year and he had Barber gaining 2000 yards from scrimmage and Shockey/Toomer were better than anything Geno had to throw to.

 
seriously, I used to love my Jets but its getting so disappointing. They draft Sanchez and then don't get him ANY!!! quality weapons or lineman during his 4 yrs. So they draft Geno because Sanchez is broken and then get him crushed in a meaningless pre-season game. Now they bring in Vick who wants the starting job and lets face it their going to give it to him unless Geno blows it out of the water.

 
cstu said:
Eli Manning was worse than Geno his rookie year and he had Barber gaining 2000 yards from scrimmage and Shockey/Toomer were better than anything Geno had to throw to.
And I was ALL-IN on ELi making it as most Giant fans I know shat in their pants and outright disowned him after that 6 Pick Vikings game.

figures.

 
Touchdown There said:
Is Geno's brother going to be considered for best QB of all time? What about his fathers track record? Not the best example.
Alex Smith is a pretty good QB.

 
seriously, I used to love my Jets but its getting so disappointing. They draft Sanchez and then don't get him ANY!!! quality weapons or lineman during his 4 yrs. So they draft Geno because Sanchez is broken and then get him crushed in a meaningless pre-season game. Now they bring in Vick who wants the starting job and lets face it their going to give it to him unless Geno blows it out of the water.
Gotta get over it....I know it's Not saying much but, IMO the future is as brite as ever

They draft Sanchez and then don't get him ANY!!! quality weapons or lineman during his 4 yrs.
Old GM - Guy was a bozo with little talent eval skills which combined with Rex's exuberance for players made a horrible combo. New GM ripped the scouting staff apart and was born with a football in his hands, not a calculator.

So they draft Geno because Sanchez is broken and then get him crushed in a meaningless pre-season game.
Sanchez was done. D O N E... a backup who had no long term value to them with his contract. He was a piece of meat to play whenever they wanted to.... The damage was aleady done by years of Tannenbaum Bad drafts and no talent on Offense.

My only regret is he didn't get to go out there a few games and help the transition for Geno especially the 1st game thru the short week at Foxboro just to get a feel for the process without getting thrown into the fire like he was.

They draft Geno as a cheap (2nd round pick post new CBA) shot at a QB... Just like SEA went after and spent on QB's before they hit on Rusell IMO Idzik will continue to 1) ADD TALENT helping your 1st concer and 2) NEVER stop adding QB's till he gets one - Like SEA spent 10 million on Flynn yet NEVER just handed him a thing!!!!!! So far the Jets are doing it without the 10 mill Flynn thing yet...

Now they bring in Vick who wants the starting job and lets face it their going to give it to him unless Geno blows it out of the water.
Mornhinweg knows Vick better than any of us.... He feels Vick will do extremely well as a mentor.

The company line is it's Geno's job to lose... But, going back to the other concerns... I DON"T REALLY CARE... Because Idzik is Building / Adding offense talent - Mornhinweg is 10x the OC Schottenheimer was and we are pretty much guaranteed to get QB play on an upward curve from last year's Geno play..... We're either Getting Geno OR BETTER!!!!!

They are not going to stand still with Sanchez-like play and Schottenheimer-like Offense...

 
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