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So we haven't done this in a while (1 Viewer)

Do you post in political threads

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 12.5%

  • No

    Votes: 117 45.7%

  • Sometimes if they interest me

    Votes: 107 41.8%
  • Total voters
    256
NCCommish

NCCommish

Footballguy
And there seems to be interest. So you get 4 choices. You can attach your own definitions. If you want to clarify a vote feel free. I sense a lot of I am liberal this way conservative that way. But you got to pick something. We will keep it anonymous.

 
I of course voted Liberal. And I only post when a thread interests me these days. I don't have the energy to Tim it like I used to.

 
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?

 
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
That's on you as I mentioned. Everyone has slight different definitions and I would hope they would post those for discussions sake.

 
Yankke broguht up he doesn't feel like any of these fit him anymore. I can understand that. But unfortunately for our purpose here we are stuck with a blunt tool and not a scalpel. So I went with the labels most have a sense of. I understand if some feel left out though. My apologies.

 
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
That's on you as I mentioned. Everyone has slight different definitions and I would hope they would post those for discussions sake.
Click to expand...
I am liberal on some issues. Conservative on others. On some, I'm a moderate. I would imagine others are the same way.

 
I am pro socialism, allowing gays to take over the world, death panels, taking away your guns, and making this a muslim country. What am I?

 
Bucky86 said:
I am pro socialism, allowing gays to take over the world, death panels, taking away your guns, and making this a muslim country. What am I?
Click to expand...
A good candidate for dictator of North Korea or Iran. Or as I like to call it, morally flexible.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hilts said:
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
That's on you as I mentioned. Everyone has slight different definitions and I would hope they would post those for discussions sake.
Click to expand...
I am liberal on some issues. Conservative on others. On some, I'm a moderate. I would imagine others are the same way.
Click to expand...
Sounds moderate to me.

 
Based on the options available voted Moderate..

I've voted for Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Independents... I think that's it but could be wrong..

I do my best to ignore a person's party affiliation and look more on what their stances are on the issues and/or voting records..

If I had it my way Jon Huntsman and Amy Klobuchar would run together as President/Vice president :thumbup:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
That's on you as I mentioned. Everyone has slight different definitions and I would hope they would post those for discussions sake.
Click to expand...
I am liberal on some issues. Conservative on others. On some, I'm a moderate. I would imagine others are the same way.
Click to expand...
Sounds moderate to me.
Click to expand...
:shrug:

That's the thing - if everyone is defining it differently, then the poll results don't really mean that much.

 
Hilts said:
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
NCCommish said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
That's on you as I mentioned. Everyone has slight different definitions and I would hope they would post those for discussions sake.
Click to expand...
I am liberal on some issues. Conservative on others. On some, I'm a moderate. I would imagine others are the same way.
Click to expand...
Sounds moderate to me.
Click to expand...
:shrug:

That's the thing - if everyone is defining it differently, then the poll results don't really mean that much.
Click to expand...
But your definition is what matters as to what you label yourself.

 
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
I identified myself as a moderate . I'm really not but it's the closest.
Click to expand...
I thought you considered yourself libertarian.
Click to expand...
back when it's primary concerns were free trade, pro-choice, and open immigration. Back when the people who called themselves libertarian studied Ludwig Von Mises, FE Hayek, and Milton Friedman. Today's libertarians are nothing more than conservatives who don't want to call themselves conservatives. They are obsessed with gun rights and the right to drink whatever cup size they want. They believe in conspiracies and tend to be isolationist. And most are anti-immigrant, which I regard as the opposite of traditional libertarian thinking. Nope it's no longer for me.
 
timschochet said:
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
I identified myself as a moderate . I'm really not but it's the closest.
Click to expand...
I thought you considered yourself libertarian.
Click to expand...
back when it's primary concerns were free trade, pro-choice, and open immigration. Back when the people who called themselves libertarian studied Ludwig Von Mises, FE Hayek, and Milton Friedman. Today's libertarians are nothing more than conservatives who don't want to call themselves conservatives. They are obsessed with gun rights and the right to drink whatever cup size they want. They believe in conspiracies and tend to be isolationist. And most are anti-immigrant, which I regard as the opposite of traditional libertarian thinking. Nope it's no longer for me.
Click to expand...
:lmao: :lmao:

You really need to get out more

 
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

A classical liberal is a political stance that yearns for freedom and liberty of the individual in the face of governmental power. Americans were for much of our history classical liberals. We still live within that frame though we call it many different things and over the past say 75 years we've slowely allowed, sometimes warranted many times not, the power of the government to grow in the face of those freedoms for security purposes.

An American liberal, in general, is a creature whose base political thought comes out of and in support of the governmental reforms of FDR and LBJ and the increased "rights" movements that the country has seen. This however, again, is changing because the "rights" movements are winning, for lack of a better phrase, and many or slowly being absorbed across the spectrum. There are very few people that actually really beleive that blacks don't deserve the right to vote for example.

Classical conservatism was again, in generalities, a traditionalist theory that held itself in support of classical and time honored traditions that were first truly attacked after the American Revolution and French Revolution. Like classic liberalism, it also stands for freedom and liberty, but it added the traditionalist beliefs in societal function. It changed after these revolutions for the most part though.

American conservatism is almost not a real thing. It's changed so much and classified itself so many different ways that it's hard to pin down. The GOP took the phrase over in the face of the democrats running Congress for what ended up being 40 years, but even then it wasn't pure (though none of these are). I don't even know what a conservative is now. The GOP certainly isn't if it ever really was. The sound bite clips of smaller government, less taxes, more defense, and on and on are both right and wrong. I would say, if you want to have a theory argument, that conservatism is always in flux because of its nature. Anything that clings to tradition moves slow. But America, while clinging to its libertarist history, also moves forward rapidly for the most part. What used to take empires hundreds of years to change we can do it in the span of a few years at this point. We aren't perfect, but the nature of our polity makes pure conservatism tough to maintain.

Libertarians are easy to define - at the end, they believe in true self freedom and liberty and would stand against the power of the government to tell you how to use or abuse your body in any manner so long as your actions do not affect any other freed person. In a nation state of over 300 million people in a world of 7 billion the theory is nice but almost impossible in practice.

Moderates are ***holes. They think they are better than everyone else and think that by saying they are moderate they sound smarter then people who are actually willing to take a stand on something. I hate moderates. And frankly, I think deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they hate themsevles too.

So for me, I don't fit anywhere. Libertarianism works in theory. But we need a foreign policy that is, frankly, interventionist. We can't afford not to be. So you can't claim to be a libertarian and then use the power of the United States military the way it needs to be used sometimes. I am a classical liberal and a classical conservative. Depending on the policy I am an American liberal and an American Conservative. We have people that will say they are economic conservatives but social liberals and I guess that can work, but not always because if you take social liberalism in America far enough in practice, it's hard not to increase the tax base somehow to make it work. At least with what we have now.

Maybe the easiest way to define the 4 for the purposes of a poll that has no subparts is this:

Liberal - government can and should be used as an agent of change for good.

Conservative - government can't be an agent of change for good but it should be used in a manner that doesn't go as far as the liberal would go.

Libertarian - government can't and shouldn't be used as an agent of change at all and should just get out of the way.

Moderate - use the government when you have to, don't use it when you don't have to, but whatever you do don't make me actually have an adult position on something.

ETA: and before you get the pitchforks.... I'm only half kidding about moderates. I just needed something more humor than history.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yankee23Fan said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

A classical liberal is a political stance that yearns for freedom and liberty of the individual in the face of governmental power. Americans were for much of our history classical liberals. We still live within that frame though we call it many different things and over the past say 75 years we've slowely allowed, sometimes warranted many times not, the power of the government to grow in the face of those freedoms for security purposes.

An American liberal, in general, is a creature whose base political thought comes out of and in support of the governmental reforms of FDR and LBJ and the increased "rights" movements that the country has seen. This however, again, is changing because the "rights" movements are winning, for lack of a better phrase, and many or slowly being absorbed across the spectrum. There are very few people that actually really beleive that blacks don't deserve the right to vote for example.

Classical conservatism was again, in generalities, a traditionalist theory that held itself in support of classical and time honored traditions that were first truly attacked after the American Revolution and French Revolution. Like classic liberalism, it also stands for freedom and liberty, but it added the traditionalist beliefs in societal function. It changed after these revolutions for the most part though.

American conservatism is almost not a real thing. It's changed so much and classified itself so many different ways that it's hard to pin down. The GOP took the phrase over in the face of the democrats running Congress for what ended up being 40 years, but even then it wasn't pure (though none of these are). I don't even know what a conservative is now. The GOP certainly isn't if it ever really was. The sound bite clips of smaller government, less taxes, more defense, and on and on are both right and wrong. I would say, if you want to have a theory argument, that conservatism is always in flux because of its nature. Anything that clings to tradition moves slow. But America, while clinging to its libertarist history, also moves forward rapidly for the most part. What used to take empires hundreds of years to change we can do it in the span of a few years at this point. We aren't perfect, but the nature of our polity makes pure conservatism tough to maintain.

Libertarians are easy to define - at the end, they believe in true self freedom and liberty and would stand against the power of the government to tell you how to use or abuse your body in any manner so long as your actions do not affect any other freed person. In a nation state of over 300 million people in a world of 7 billion the theory is nice but almost impossible in practice.

Moderates are ***holes. They think they are better than everyone else and think that by saying they are moderate they sound smarter then people who are actually willing to take a stand on something. I hate moderates. And frankly, I think deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they hate themsevles too.

So for me, I don't fit anywhere. Libertarianism works in theory. But we need a foreign policy that is, frankly, interventionist. We can't afford not to be. So you can't claim to be a libertarian and then use the power of the United States military the way it needs to be used sometimes. I am a classical liberal and a classical conservative. Depending on the policy I am an American liberal and an American Conservative. We have people that will say they are economic conservatives but social liberals and I guess that can work, but not always because if you take social liberalism in America far enough in practice, it's hard not to increase the tax base somehow to make it work. At least with what we have now.

Maybe the easiest way to define the 4 for the purposes of a poll that has no subparts is this:

Liberal - government can and should be used as an agent of change for good.

Conservative - government can't be an agent of change for good but it should be used in a manner that doesn't go as far as the liberal would go.

Libertarian - government can't and shouldn't be used as an agent of change at all and should just get out of the way.

Moderate - use the government when you have to, don't use it when you don't have to, but whatever you do don't make me actually have an adult position on something.

ETA: and before you get the pitchforks.... I'm only half kidding about moderates. I just needed something more humor than history.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

I have very strong feelings in regards to my positions about certain subjects.. It just ends up that my positions conflict with the "Extreme-Left" and the "Extreme-Right" and thus consider myself a Moderate you A##.. ;)

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Hilts said:
Can we get a definition of what it means to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, and moderate?
Click to expand...
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

A classical liberal is a political stance that yearns for freedom and liberty of the individual in the face of governmental power. Americans were for much of our history classical liberals. We still live within that frame though we call it many different things and over the past say 75 years we've slowely allowed, sometimes warranted many times not, the power of the government to grow in the face of those freedoms for security purposes.

An American liberal, in general, is a creature whose base political thought comes out of and in support of the governmental reforms of FDR and LBJ and the increased "rights" movements that the country has seen. This however, again, is changing because the "rights" movements are winning, for lack of a better phrase, and many or slowly being absorbed across the spectrum. There are very few people that actually really beleive that blacks don't deserve the right to vote for example.

Classical conservatism was again, in generalities, a traditionalist theory that held itself in support of classical and time honored traditions that were first truly attacked after the American Revolution and French Revolution. Like classic liberalism, it also stands for freedom and liberty, but it added the traditionalist beliefs in societal function. It changed after these revolutions for the most part though.

American conservatism is almost not a real thing. It's changed so much and classified itself so many different ways that it's hard to pin down. The GOP took the phrase over in the face of the democrats running Congress for what ended up being 40 years, but even then it wasn't pure (though none of these are). I don't even know what a conservative is now. The GOP certainly isn't if it ever really was. The sound bite clips of smaller government, less taxes, more defense, and on and on are both right and wrong. I would say, if you want to have a theory argument, that conservatism is always in flux because of its nature. Anything that clings to tradition moves slow. But America, while clinging to its libertarist history, also moves forward rapidly for the most part. What used to take empires hundreds of years to change we can do it in the span of a few years at this point. We aren't perfect, but the nature of our polity makes pure conservatism tough to maintain.

Libertarians are easy to define - at the end, they believe in true self freedom and liberty and would stand against the power of the government to tell you how to use or abuse your body in any manner so long as your actions do not affect any other freed person. In a nation state of over 300 million people in a world of 7 billion the theory is nice but almost impossible in practice.

Moderates are ***holes. They think they are better than everyone else and think that by saying they are moderate they sound smarter then people who are actually willing to take a stand on something. I hate moderates. And frankly, I think deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they hate themsevles too.

So for me, I don't fit anywhere. Libertarianism works in theory. But we need a foreign policy that is, frankly, interventionist. We can't afford not to be. So you can't claim to be a libertarian and then use the power of the United States military the way it needs to be used sometimes. I am a classical liberal and a classical conservative. Depending on the policy I am an American liberal and an American Conservative. We have people that will say they are economic conservatives but social liberals and I guess that can work, but not always because if you take social liberalism in America far enough in practice, it's hard not to increase the tax base somehow to make it work. At least with what we have now.

Maybe the easiest way to define the 4 for the purposes of a poll that has no subparts is this:

Liberal - government can and should be used as an agent of change for good.

Conservative - government can't be an agent of change for good but it should be used in a manner that doesn't go as far as the liberal would go.

Libertarian - government can't and shouldn't be used as an agent of change at all and should just get out of the way.

Moderate - use the government when you have to, don't use it when you don't have to, but whatever you do don't make me actually have an adult position on something.

ETA: and before you get the pitchforks.... I'm only half kidding about moderates. I just needed something more humor than history.
Click to expand...
As usual Yankee does a nice job.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Moderates are ***holes. They think they are better than everyone else and think that by saying they are moderate they sound smarter then people who are actually willing to take a stand on something. I hate moderates. And frankly, I think deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they hate themsevles too.
Click to expand...
that's me! :hifive:

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Rich Conway said I can call myself a Fair Taxer. I'll take that. Make that an option.
Click to expand...
Going to have to think about it. Not sure I can assign it a political philosophy though as it makes for strange bedfellows that don't agree on much else. My support for Fair Tax has gotten me called a closet conservative by some of my usual allies on most subjects for example.

 
NCCommish said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Rich Conway said I can call myself a Fair Taxer. I'll take that. Make that an option.
Click to expand...
Going to have to think about it. Not sure I can assign it a political philosophy though as it makes for strange bedfellows that don't agree on much else. My support for Fair Tax has gotten me called a closet conservative by some of my usual allies on most subjects for example.
Click to expand...
So you want to deny my freedom to allow me to vote the way I want! I knew you were a commie.

 
timschochet said:
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
I identified myself as a moderate . I'm really not but it's the closest.
Click to expand...
I thought you considered yourself libertarian.
Click to expand...
back when it's primary concerns were free trade, pro-choice, and open immigration. Back when the people who called themselves libertarian studied Ludwig Von Mises, FE Hayek, and Milton Friedman. Today's libertarians are nothing more than conservatives who don't want to call themselves conservatives. They are obsessed with gun rights and the right to drink whatever cup size they want. They believe in conspiracies and tend to be isolationist. And most are anti-immigrant, which I regard as the opposite of traditional libertarian thinking. Nope it's no longer for me.
Click to expand...
You're an ###. Yet another insulting post that you'll later backtrack on with "Well, not all libertarians, just most", and then probably refuse to name names.

More to the point, you're a liberal. You just are. It's not a crime or a perjorative, but it's what you are based on your political stances. You should own it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yankee23Fan said:
NCCommish said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Rich Conway said I can call myself a Fair Taxer. I'll take that. Make that an option.
Click to expand...
Going to have to think about it. Not sure I can assign it a political philosophy though as it makes for strange bedfellows that don't agree on much else. My support for Fair Tax has gotten me called a closet conservative by some of my usual allies on most subjects for example.
Click to expand...
So you want to deny my freedom to allow me to vote the way I want! I knew you were a commie.
Click to expand...
maybe we could have him add No Labels :)

 
Yankee23Fan said:
NCCommish said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Rich Conway said I can call myself a Fair Taxer. I'll take that. Make that an option.
Click to expand...
Going to have to think about it. Not sure I can assign it a political philosophy though as it makes for strange bedfellows that don't agree on much else. My support for Fair Tax has gotten me called a closet conservative by some of my usual allies on most subjects for example.
Click to expand...
So you want to deny my freedom to allow me to vote the way I want! I knew you were a commie.
Click to expand...
If I were a commie there would be only one choice I am worst a socialist in this case.

 
NCCommish said:
Yankee23Fan said:
NCCommish said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Rich Conway said I can call myself a Fair Taxer. I'll take that. Make that an option.
Click to expand...
Going to have to think about it. Not sure I can assign it a political philosophy though as it makes for strange bedfellows that don't agree on much else. My support for Fair Tax has gotten me called a closet conservative by some of my usual allies on most subjects for example.
Click to expand...
So you want to deny my freedom to allow me to vote the way I want! I knew you were a commie.
Click to expand...
If I were a commie there would be only one choice I am worst a socialist in this case.
Click to expand...
Or a spy.

 
Rich Conway said:
timschochet said:
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
I identified myself as a moderate . I'm really not but it's the closest.
Click to expand...
I thought you considered yourself libertarian.
Click to expand...
back when it's primary concerns were free trade, pro-choice, and open immigration. Back when the people who called themselves libertarian studied Ludwig Von Mises, FE Hayek, and Milton Friedman. Today's libertarians are nothing more than conservatives who don't want to call themselves conservatives. They are obsessed with gun rights and the right to drink whatever cup size they want. They believe in conspiracies and tend to be isolationist. And most are anti-immigrant, which I regard as the opposite of traditional libertarian thinking. Nope it's no longer for me.
Click to expand...
You're an ###. Yet another insulting post that you'll later backtrack on with "Well, not all libertarians, just most", and then probably refuse to name names.More to the point, you're a liberal. You just are. It's not a crime or a perjorative, but it's what you are based on your political stances. You should own it.
Click to expand...
not sure what I wrote that is insulting. I side with liberals on a lot of issues. But I believe in capitalism and free trade. I believe that as a general rule, the private sector is more efficient than the public sector . I believe that the United States and Israel are primarily forces for good, I believe in objective good and evil behavior, and I don't believe in moral relevantism . So no, I could never call myself a liberal.

 
88 votes so far and only 12 identify as conservative and 28 liberal.Moderates making a strong push though which does make sense based on what I've read around here.

 
tom22406 said:
88 votes so far and only 12 identify as conservative and 28 liberal.Moderates making a strong push though which does make sense based on what I've read around here.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think the moderate/libertarian split is hurting the conservative vote. However these polls often start this way and then once people who can't post at work get here then it changes. So we'll see.

 
timschochet said:
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
I identified myself as a moderate . I'm really not but it's the closest.
Click to expand...
I thought you considered yourself libertarian.
Click to expand...
back when it's primary concerns were free trade, pro-choice, and open immigration. Back when the people who called themselves libertarian studied Ludwig Von Mises, FE Hayek, and Milton Friedman. Today's libertarians are nothing more than conservatives who don't want to call themselves conservatives. They are obsessed with gun rights and the right to drink whatever cup size they want. They believe in conspiracies and tend to be isolationist. And most are anti-immigrant, which I regard as the opposite of traditional libertarian thinking. Nope it's no longer for me.
Click to expand...
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 
Willie Neslon said:
You forgot to list independent. We vote based on facts and issues and not a letter.
Click to expand...
This. I split hairs and figured moderate was the closest thing. :shrug:

I am in favor of capitalism, gay marriage, legalizing pot, abortion (with restrictions) and making it much more difficult for immigrants to make their way into this country. Go figure.

 
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