What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Cleveland Browns (8 Viewers)

Let's be real, Shanny has to be the source of the negative press the last 2 days, no?

Grossi trying to pin this all back to a Manziel power struggle. Hammer leading the parade too. Minutes after the news breaks they are making stupid assumptions based on nothing. That's hilarious IMO.

Edit: and the segment before the news broke Grossi was on saying He thinks Shanny would be back. Minutes before the news.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Let's be real, Shanny has to be the source of the negative press the last 2 days, no?

Grossi trying to pin this all back to a Manziel power struggle. Hammer leading the parade too. Minutes after the news breaks they are making stupid assumptions based on nothing. That's hilarious IMO.

Edit: and the segment before the news broke Grossi was on saying He thinks Shanny would be back. Minutes before the news.
Sounds eerily similar to how his time in Washington ended last season...

 
Shanny's gone according to ESPN report.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12136623/offensive-coordinator-kyle-shanahan-leaving-cleveland-browns?addata=module-b

Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and the Cleveland Browns have agreed to part ways Thursday, a source confirmed to ESPN.com.

Reports surfaced Wednesday that Shanahan was considering other options after he had soured on the job amid friction among the coaching staff and front office.

Shanahan is among several candidates to fill the head-coaching vacancy with the Buffalo Bills.

Quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains also will leave the Browns, sources confirmed to ESPN.com.

FoxSports.com earlier reported the story.

The Bills, San Francisco 49ers and Oakland Raiders already have interviewed Mike Shanahan and would consider hiring the father-son duo with Mike as head coach and Kyle as offensive coordinator, Cleveland.com reported Wednesday.
Oh and so is Dowell Loggains best remembered for this:

... Loggains said. “We’re sitting there and they keep showing Johnny on T.V. and Johnny and I are texting,” Dowell Loggains told “Sports Talk with Bo Mattingly.” “He shoots me a text and he says, ‘I wish you guys would come get me. Hurry up and draft me because I want to be there.”

“I want to wreck this league together.”

I'm guessing the plan is to take them down one team at a time.

One down 31 to go Dowell.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a disaster, no other way to frame it. Browns haven't had the same OC two years running since Brian Dabol back in 2010. The best thing Shanny brought was:

- zone blocking scheme that is tailor made for talent on O-Line

- roll boot play-action that fit both Hoyer and Manziel

- best play caller the Browns offense has had since Arians

- ability to adjust at half time and not panic as witnessed in many come backs

Bills lost their HC due to not having a QB and front office friction and Shanny leaving for similar reason but the big difference is the Bills lack a first round draft pick to find a QB but the Browns hold two first round picks to make a move to find a QB.

Horrible news losing Shanny but the saving grace is that we still have the same O-Line coach so if we can keep him then that would be great because we don't have to make another whole scale change on offense and it would help to keep cohesion with the running attack.

-------------------------------------------

Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN

Lots of changes on #Browns offensive staff but I'm told OL coach Andy Moeller plans to stay and hasn't been told otherwise.

 
meh. i think you guys are over-estimating Shanahan's ability.
How?

The big issue that you of all people should be concerned with is the reason given by Shanahan for leaving is friction with the front office which very-likely means he felt he didn't have the type of players he felt he needed to be successful. We know Farmer had a blind eye at the WR position where he knew about JG's suspension but didn't draft a single WR in a very-deep WR class and obviously their was friction due to the Johnny Manziel pick from the start.

Shanny left which seems to indicate he wasn't going to get any WRs with top picks this year and/or that the front office is married to Manziel for the upcoming season and the FO probably wants the OC to push in all of the chips to create an offense tailor made to suit Johnny.

I simply don't think Johnny is an NFL QB and think its insane to not find a legitimate NFL QB especially since we have two first round draft picks this year.

If we can't land a legit QB this year then trade-down with one of those 1st rounders for an extra next year and resign Hoyer.

But back to your point, if you feel that I over-estimated Shanahan's ability as an OC then what did I overstate that he brought to the table? The list of candidates doesn't thrill me and constant change is a huge reason why we can't build anything.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
constant change is a huge reason why we can't build anything.
This is the biggest thing that the new breed of NFL owners don't seem to understand. Constantly turning over coaching staffs and/or GMs doesn't allow a franchise to gain any traction. The most successful franchises have owners (ie. Rooney, Mara, Kraft) that have stuck with their front offices and coaches even in "down" periods and that continuity pays off eventually.

Franchises that show a lack of patience (Jets, Bills, Browns, Raiders), spin their wheels year after year and get nowhere.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Let's be real, Shanny has to be the source of the negative press the last 2 days, no?
It was Loggains.
Probably...he's a big texter too. But he got canned, and likely should have been after his Arkansas radio interview.

Shanny, on the other hand, probably didn't walk into a big wigs office to see a pink slip out of nowhere. Seems pretty obvious he didn't want to be here anymore based on all the info floating around.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reported that we're looking at Chan Gailey at OC.

This tidbit about Gailey caught my eye.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/1/12/7530985/report-browns-to-consider-chan-gailey-for-offensive-coordinator

... he would reportedly maintain the zone-blocking scheme and implement the spread offense.
I like that part but not so sure of his most recent history in the league as an OC.

He wasn't the best head coach but built his reputation as a solid OC but his last gig as an OC was in KC where he was fired in the preseason by Pittsburgh's current OC and former HC Todd Hailey.

He is 62 years old and his career production seems like a guy on the decline. Hopefully we have other candidates who would keep the zone-blocking scheme and run a variation of or incorporate aspects the Shanahan offense that worked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan_Gailey

... Gailey previously served as offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins in 2000–01 when the Dolphins posted consecutive 11–5 records. He was on the Pittsburgh Steelers staff from 1994–97 when the Steelers won four straight AFC Central titles and coached in one Super Bowl (XXX). He was offensive coordinator in 1997 when Pittsburgh ranked sixth in the NFL in total offense and seventh in scoring.[1] Gailey served as the offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2008 and three games of the 2009 pre-season.

...

Gailey's name was mentioned for both the Pittsburgh Steelers and Miami Dolphins head coaching jobs following the 2006 season, two teams for which he was offensive coordinator.[12] Gailey got neither job. On January 19, 2007 Gailey announced he would return to Georgia Tech.[13]

After a 7–5 2007 regular season and losing for the sixth straight year to the Georgia Bulldogs football team, it was announced on November 26, 2007 that Gailey had been dismissed and his $1 million/year contract bought out.[14][15][16][17]

Back to the NFL (2008)[edit]Gailey was hired on January 16, 2008 to become the offensive coordinator of the Kansas City Chiefs. Gailey inherited a Chiefs offense that ranked at the bottom of the league in almost every category the previous season.[18] He was demoted after three pre-season games in 2009 and relieved of play-calling duties by head coach Todd Haley.[19] Gailey was out of football in 2009.

Buffalo Bills (2010–12)[edit]He was introduced as the 15th head coach of the Buffalo Bills on January 19, 2010, replacing interim head coach Perry Fewell and becoming their fifth head coach in 10 years.[20] On December 31, 2012, Gailey was relieved of his duties as the head coach of the Buffalo Bills after a 6–10 season and a career 16–32 record in Buffalo.[21] Gailey chose not to pursue further coaching after the dismissal and retired.[22]
 
Anyway we can trade half of the 2015 draft for future picks and still retain everyone with expiring contracts?

Please?

 
constant change is a huge reason why we can't build anything.
This is the biggest thing that the new breed of NFL owners don't seem to understand. Constantly turning over coaching staffs and/or GMs doesn't allow a franchise to gain any traction. The most successful franchises have owners (ie. Rooney, Mara, Kraft) that have stuck with their front offices and coaches even in "down" periods and that continuity pays off eventually.

Franchises that show a lack of patience (Jets, Bills, Browns, Raiders), spin their wheels year after year and get nowhere.
Hiring crap coaches and GMs doesn't help a franchise gain traction, either. They might get stability, if they hired a coach or executive worth retaining.

 
Kilgore said:
constant change is a huge reason why we can't build anything.
This is the biggest thing that the new breed of NFL owners don't seem to understand. Constantly turning over coaching staffs and/or GMs doesn't allow a franchise to gain any traction. The most successful franchises have owners (ie. Rooney, Mara, Kraft) that have stuck with their front offices and coaches even in "down" periods and that continuity pays off eventually.

Franchises that show a lack of patience (Jets, Bills, Browns, Raiders), spin their wheels year after year and get nowhere.
Hiring crap coaches and GMs doesn't help a franchise gain traction, either. They might get stability, if they hired a coach or executive worth retaining.
Sometimes you really don't know if a guy is worth retaining or not after just one season.

 
Sometimes you really don't know if a guy is worth retaining or not after just one season.
True, but is anyone we have fired working anywhere other than as a coordinator?

The only coach firing I didnt agree with was Chud, but it's not like I was convinced he was the man or anything.

But it really does suck to keep going through coaches and front office. Do ya keep a crappy one and hope he becomes good? Or do ya keep trying to find a guy who is good right away?

I do know a new coach, GM, and QB every 2 years isnt gonna work.

 
MAC_32 said:
Anyway we can trade half of the 2015 draft for future picks and still retain everyone with expiring contracts?

Please?
i thought we had plenty of cap and it's going up next year?
I've already mailed in 2015. Just don't want the team dismantled come 2016 as we have a solid base and I really like Pettine. If the rumors are true about Farmer being the mystery texter then...well...need someone else in that seat, which may mean no more Pettine...which would be upsetting.

 
aside from Manziel, i think the team is doing ok, and it seems like Haslam will give them a few years to figure it out.

i'd be surprised if either are fired at the end of next year.

 
How big a fan of you are the kid from Cleveland OH? (OSU 3rd String QB)?

Id almost be willing to take Ezekiel Elliot in the 1st rnd, followed by a solid TE/ Tackle in the 2nd, and then Jones as early as the 3rd round.

I know Elliot may be an expensive luxury, but he may make for an interesting bait for trade if another Team decides Jones is too Big Ben-ish to pass on before Cleve picks in the 3rd?

p.s. All bets may be off on thur. (Jones last day)

 
How big a fan of you are the kid from Cleveland OH? (OSU 3rd String QB)?

Id almost be willing to take Ezekiel Elliot in the 1st rnd, followed by a solid TE/ Tackle in the 2nd, and then Jones as early as the 3rd round.

I know Elliot may be an expensive luxury, but he may make for an interesting bait for trade if another Team decides Jones is too Big Ben-ish to pass on before Cleve picks in the 3rd?

p.s. All bets may be off on thur. (Jones last day)
He's only a true sophomore and not eligible for the draft.

 
How big a fan of you are the kid from Cleveland OH? (OSU 3rd String QB)?

Id almost be willing to take Ezekiel Elliot in the 1st rnd, followed by a solid TE/ Tackle in the 2nd, and then Jones as early as the 3rd round.

I know Elliot may be an expensive luxury, but he may make for an interesting bait for trade if another Team decides Jones is too Big Ben-ish to pass on before Cleve picks in the 3rd?

p.s. All bets may be off on thur. (Jones last day)
Elliot isn't eligible for the draft and Cardale has openly said he's not ready for the NFL and will return to school. Granted, that may change by tomorrow - but either way Zeke will not be in the 2015 draft.

 
Browns GM Ray Farmer's press conference. Lots of tough questions about Johnny Manziel. Ray wasn't getting soft ball questions but the thing that was shocking is he answered everything straight forward.

One question stood out to me.

QUESTION: "Would you hesitate at all to use a 1st round pick on a quarterback two years in a row?"

Almost before he got the question out Ray blurted out.

RAY FARMER: "NOPE! I WOULD NOT. I would not hesitate to take a football player and help move this team forward."

Link to the video:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/will_qbs_johnny_manziel_and_br.html

 
I just want to clarify. Clev did just have it's best season in like.... Hell, I don't know how long. Right?
Ridiculously easy schedule.
Not really. It only looks that way when W/L record is all you examine. NO, CAR, ATL are all decent teams.
NFC South was the worst division in football, correct? I guess they could still be "decent", but compared to the rest of the league this was a great year to play the South.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
hell, if Manziel was worth a first, Cardale's gotta be worth a second, easy.

we at least know he won't break the first time he's tackled.

 
Kiper's first mock and who he has slotted for the Browns two first-round picks.

Don't know enough about this draft class yet but I can live with the positions he chose.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/01/mel-kiper-mock-draft-cleveland-browns/

According to Kiper, the Browns could add nearly 700 pounds of human with their first two selections:

12. Danny Shelton
COLLEGE: Washington | Class: Sr | HT: 6-1 | WT: 332 | POS: DT

Analysis: In Mike Pettine’s system, you really can use powerful bodies up front who can hold blocks but also create some movement and occasionally penetrate, and the massive Shelton is a nice fit for a team that struggled to consistently stop the run. The Browns really missed an injured Phil Taylor, and Shelton comes in ready to play and give them more depth at a position in which every team could use it. This guy didn’t just cause way more backfield havoc than his size would indicate is possible, but he has incredible awareness in the run game and actually led the Huskies in tackles for most of the season, which is pretty incredible for a guy at that position.

19. Ereck Flowers
COLLEGE: Miami (FL) | Class: Jr | HT: 6-6 | WT: 325 | POS: OT

Analysis: I can obviously see the Browns looking at a pass-catcher here given the issues they faced in 2014, when Josh Gordon was off the field (and when he was on it, for that matter), but I also think they know that if they can build a dominant offensive line and make Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell arguably the league’s best two-headed running back attack, they’ll be able to help stabilize the passing game and allow any QB to succeed. Flowers offers insurance for Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz, and also at guard in a year after the injury to Alex Mack (and subsequent shuffling up front) was quietly devastating if you look at Cleveland’s ability to run the ball. Anybody who assumes an O-line or D-line is in great shape without considering depth should watch what happen to the Browns when Mack went down.

 
Let's be real, Shanny has to be the source of the negative press the last 2 days, no?
It was Loggains.
Probably...he's a big texter too. But he got canned, and likely should have been after his Arkansas radio interview.

Shanny, on the other hand, probably didn't walk into a big wigs office to see a pink slip out of nowhere. Seems pretty obvious he didn't want to be here anymore based on all the info floating around.
This week their were two A to Z podcasts. One only hours before the Cardale Jones decision and the hosts both felt Cardale would leave but they did drop some knowledge pertaining to Kyle Shanahan leaving the team.

Interesting stuff go to the 22:00 minute mark where they say that Jay Glazier reported that Kyle Shanhan "Did it wrong." Glazier reported that Kyle Shanahan waited until Mike Pettine went on vacation and then went behind his back to go directly to the owner instead of going to his boss, Mike Pettine to ask out of his contract.

http://603brown.com/2015/01/15/atoz-cardale-jones-pre-announce/

ZACK- Jay Glazer said that Kyle did it wrong. Kyle waited until Pettine went on vacation and then Kyle and went and talked to the owner and the owner released Kyle.

I wouldn't have let that come out because it shows a bigger disconnect. Because the offensive coordinator is going to the owner instead of the head coach, the man that he works for.

DRE- What does that tell you though?

ZACK -It, it, it tells you that its still a fricken mess.

(They go into a rambling Cavs jag for a few minutes before brining it back to the Browns.)

ZACK - Another thing. Browns scouts are out on the road all year round looking for zone blocking offensive linemen and for one-cut running backs.

(You have to go and listen to Zack's take on T-West and Crowell. Its not pretty. Then at the 35:00 minute mark)

DRE- You're Mike Pettine you go to the beach, you put your feet in the sand and you're praying that you don't get a Johnny Manziel story when damnit you just lost your offensive coordinator.
The A to Z wasn't the only ones who mentioned Kyle Shanahan leaving the team. On yesterday's Cleveland Browns Daily one of the regular guests tore into Shanny when reports were mentioned that if Gary Kubiak leaves the Baltimore Ravens to take the Denver Broncos job that Shanny could go with him to Denver or he could take over Kubiak's offensive coordinator job in Baltimore and the guest host was disgusted with Kyle.

Go to the 5 minute mark where 'The Kid' says that NOTHING would give me more pleasure than to see Kyle Shanahan in Baltmore, or words to that effect. Seems Shanny left a bad taste in everyone's mouth that way he handled his departure.

Last year when the Shanahan's left, or were kicked out of Washington it seemed orchestrated and Kyle did it again in Cleveland and in a very under-handed manner.

I actually do hope he goes to Baltimore because they would have a sneaky little #### back-stabbing everyone in the building it seems.

I mean he didn't have the common courtesy or the balls to tell Mike Pettine to his face, he had to go behind his back like a punk.

Glaze is right, that was NOT the way to handle business Kyle.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/audio/Browns_Daily_116_Part_5_Friday_Forecast/09c4532c-4626-43d9-b963-380101a44ab6

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Even though the Raiders finished dead last, 32nd in the league in offense last Flip got rave reviews from those who worked with him per Adam Caplan, Alex Marvez, and even Sigmond Bloom thinks he can get the most out of a young QB since he worked well with Carr last year.

========

Adam Caplan @caplannfl · 33m 33 minutes ago

Countless coaches, execs who have worked with DeFilippo have raved about him. Think hire is a home-run for Browns.
Sigmund Bloom @SigmundBloom · 3h 3 hours ago

OAK QB coach, good at getting young QBs up to speed quickly RT @alexmarvez @Browns are hiring John DeFilippo as new offensive coordinator.
Adam Caplan @caplannfl · 37m 37 minutes ago

Coaching source familiar with DeFilippo's offense/ideas: He'll run wording/verbiage system (similar to WCO).

=======

Wording of the WC is alpha based not numeric. That does not mean Defilippo will run a WC offense but this means the players on offense have to learn a new system no matter what sort of offense he installs.

So-far I haven't heard what sort of offense he will run. Hope he carries forward two things from Shanny's offense, the zone-blocking and even though he may run more of a WC I hope he keeps some of the roll-boot plays that have worked all the way back to Mike Shanahan in Denver and with Kyle with us last year.
 
Who is this clown we hired. Every year (hell every month) we say to ourselves "well, at least it can't get any worse", yet it just keeps getting worse and worse.

 
Who is this clown we hired. Every year (hell every month) we say to ourselves "well, at least it can't get any worse", yet it just keeps getting worse and worse.
He interviewed here last year.

I think it could be worse....like Chuck Weis worse and some of those other names we've seen in the outlets.

 
Pat Mac does a scathing piece that rips into Johnny Manziel.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12216266/cleveland-browns-quarterback-johnny-manziel-struggled-commitment-preparation-sources-said

Inside Manziel's rocky rookie season Browns sources reveal that celebrity quarterback was a turbulent presence in '14Updated: January 23, 2015, 2:56 PM ET
... Manziel struggled mightily in almost six quarters as a starter, then was fined for being AWOL the final Saturday of the season. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan resigned with two years left on his contract. Loggains was fired.

... Interviews by ESPN.com with nearly 20 Browns sources, both on the record and on condition of anonymity, along with several NFL personnel sources reveal the Manziel-related problems run deep.

Those who spoke talked of a year-long pattern that showed a lack of commitment and preparation, a failure to be ready when given a chance in his first start against Cincinnati and a continued commitment to nightlife, which affected his preparation and work while in the team facility.

As one player put it, Manziel throughout the entire 2014 season was a "100 percent joke."

...On that Tuesday, Manziel stood in front of about 20 media members and outlined his plan to become the Browns' answer at quarterback. He wanted to be "the guy" for Cleveland, he said, and would do so by taking his job more seriously. He was more animated than he'd been all year, eager to declare his intentions.

Four days later, stories in the Browns' facility began to circulate. Manziel was not present the morning before the season finale. Team security drove to Manziel's downtown home to check on him. The Browns were packing up for the season finale at Baltimore on Dec. 28.

Two team sources said security found a player who they felt clearly had partied hard the night before. One source used the words "drunk off his a--."

The official word was that Manziel was "late," but players said they didn't see Manziel until the Browns' chartered airplane prepared to take off in the afternoon, that he was not present all morning. The team fined Manziel for missing treatment on his injured hamstring, then had him sit in the locker room during the season finale in Baltimore.

"Johnny's his own worst enemy," one source said.

Monday after the season, Manziel had another news conference, saying many of the same things from six days earlier -- actions must support words. That night he was featured in Instagram photos on Miami Beach, a few days later at a club in Houston and a few days after that on a mountain in Aspen, Colorado.

...Manziel was late often enough that it was never a surprise when he was.

One Browns staffer said he believed Manziel didn't get tough love when attention to detail wasn't there, that the team did not always hold him accountable when he was late.

...readiness became an issue once Manziel got the starting job the following week. Several sources said Manziel either didn't know the plays in the huddle or didn't call them correctly. The Browns tried to get him comfortable by using shotgun and pistol formations on about 80 percent of his downs and by simplifying the offense.



But more than once, teammates corrected the play-call in the huddle, or headed to the line hoping things would work because the call was wrong. Sometimes, the offense would get lined up wrong because Manziel forgot to read the whole play or got the verbiage wrong (saying "left" instead of "right," for example).

Manziel's stat line from his first start: 10-of-18 passing for 80 yards, two interceptions and a 1.0 QBR.



...Some veterans "clearly didn't want to play for [Manziel]" because of the lack of readiness, and they responded better to undrafted rookie Connor Shaw in part because he knew the plays, sources said. It wasn't lost on players that Shaw played through a dislocated finger on his left hand and a rib injury that had him passing blood after the season finale, while Manziel played six quarters before hurting his hamstring, then missed treatment on the injury on the final Saturday because he was still in bed.

...The biggest on-field concern with Manziel as he moved into the NFL was whether he could master the nuances of a pro system. At Texas A&M, the emphasis was on tempo, calling plays in a hurry and getting to the line to run plays quickly. In the NFL, pre-snap reads, protections and coverages matter more than tempo.

At A&M, the center made protection calls and Manziel's job was, in part, to find mismatches, often throwing to dominant 6-foot-5 receiver Mike Evans or scrambling when plays broke down.

"The way we talked about him in meetings, the kid never put in the time he needed to -- studying film, organizing workouts, 7-on-7 workouts -- he didn't do it," said one NFC scout with a Southeastern Conference focus. "His thing would be he's going to show up on Saturdays, 'I'm a gamer.' He'd show up for practices and games but that's about it. Johnny thought he was an NFL superstar before he came [into the league]."

One A&M source said Manziel's attitude is catching up to him. Manziel was lax in preparation unless the Aggies were playing a top-tier opponent, such as Alabama or Auburn, when "you couldn't get him out of the film room," the source said. Against Rice or Sam Houston State, not so much.

...Farmer will not reveal where any player is ranked on the team's draft board. Sources, though, said Shanahan liked Jimmy Garappolo, now with New England, or Tom Savage, now with Houston. Debate existed among assistant coaches about Manziel's draft ratings, with some not giving him a first-round grade.



..."It takes focus and commitment [to succeed in NFL], which he clearly didn't have," the exec said.

...One former NFL assistant coach familiar with developing quarterbacks said it was a mistake to draft Manziel, but it would be a bigger mistake to let him go.

Others, though, maintain the problems balloon when a team sticks with an uncommitted player. At least one candidate to replace Shanahan believed Manziel was not the answer, according to a source.

...Manziel still has support in the building, particularly on the business side because of the attention he commands in stadiums and merchandise lanes.

..."What Johnny has to understand is [if] he has another year like he just had, he's not going to be famous anymore," one NFL team exec said. "LeBron James is going to lose his number."
 
Hasnt even made it to the browns thread yet, wow. Gordon. Good god. Idiot.

What we got now, 7 1st round picks in the past 4 years that aren't doing jack squat (maybe 6 of them), now our #1 WR has assured himself of being gone, if he wasnt already.

No QB, no WRs, and probably a lot of grumpy vets.

damn it

 
110% done with pettine. Done.
Yeah? Your boi is the guy who everyone should be jumping because that jerk has played like crap and hurt his team more than any one guy in the entire NFL could have due to his own stupidity.

Your boi is the villain here and you know it.
Gordon didnt lose this game.

Pettine refusing to cut the cord did.

Im not even blaming Hoyer.... hes just doing what hes being paid to do. Pettine is the idiot.
You dare to say Pettine lost the game. He is a rookie NFL head coach who have the Cleveland Browns over .500 in December. He has coached his ### off. He is the guy who established a running game, he built up the defense while Gordon was serving a suspension for smoking pot.

The idiot WR came back, has run the wrong routes, caused interceptions, killed Hoyer, and then today? Your boi sucked again and you blame Pettine?

Don't blame Pettine. That idiot WR will be gone long before Pettine.

Now that we're out of the playoffs we can see if Manziel can even play. We know what your agenda has been and what it is today in trying to deflect blame from the moron WR to Pettine. Pettine was doing fine till that jerk came back to destroy the season.
Gordon suspended for the year?

My shocked face. :coffee:

 
step 1: Manning leaves Denver because he doesn't want to run a West Coast offense.

step 2: Manning comes to Browns and runs a run heavy, play action offense.

step 3: Super Bowl

i can dream, right?

 
Just read an interesting post on the OBR boards comparing rookie CB Justin Gilbert to veteran free agent starting CB Buster Skrine.

I was surprised at what someone dug up. Seems that Gilbert's stats were about even to Skrine over the entire season but over the last eight games Gilbert was better. Really good post and whoever wrote it did his homework.

Well worth sharing so here is the entire post.

http://cle.scout.com/forums/4409-the-watercooler/13619872-gilbert-already-better-than-skrine?s=149

Gilbert Already Better Than Skrine?

[SIZE=12pt]We're all well aware that Gilbert has been called out by his teammates for his work ethic. And many of us, myself included, believed Gilbert was a bust.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As I was pouring through some Browns season stats via PFF, I was quite surprised to discover that there is a good deal of evidence that Gilbert is already equal to or better than Skrine as a coverage CB.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I compiled this data for both the entire season and for just the last eight games[/SIZE].

[SIZE=12pt]That's important since Gilbert was a rookie and his two worst games of the season were at the beginning. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What's interesting, too, is that even when you factor in those two horrible games, his full-season stats are still overall better than Skrine's. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The gulf widens even more when you compare just the second-half of the season:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]NFL Rating of QBs when throwing at him (lower is better): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Full Season:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 86.9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 83.6[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Last 8 games:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 79[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 52[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Cover Snaps / Target (the amount of times CB is the primary in coverage versus how many times his WR is targeted, lower is better): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Full Season:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 5.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 5.3[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Last 8 games:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 5.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 4.4[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Yards / Cover Snap (The average amount of yards a CB allows relative to the number of snaps he is in primary coverage, lower is better): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Full Season:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 1.38[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 1.50[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Last 8 games:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 1.36[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 1.53[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Cover Snaps / Reception (How many receptions CB allows relative to the number of times he is targeted, lower is better):[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Full Season:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 8.9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 8.7[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Last 8 games:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 9.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 8.3[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Percentage of Passes Defensed per number of Times Targeted (higher is better): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Full Season:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 15%[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 17%[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Last 8 games: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Skrine: 7%[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Gilbert: 23%[/SIZE]



[SIZE=12pt]There is one obvious caveat to these numbers[/SIZE]: Skrine (625 pass snaps) played far more pass coverage snaps than Gilbert (252 snaps).

[SIZE=12pt][Although it should be noted that Gilbert had the third-most coverage snaps of any Browns CB after Haden and Skrine, yes that includes (surprisingly) K'Waun Williams, who anecdotally I would've thought had more coverage attempts than Gilbert but did not.][/SIZE]



[SIZE=12pt]Conclusion: Gilbert may not have been the bust we thought he was. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Yes, he needs to improve his attitude and preparation. And keep improving his footwork and technique. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But it seems clear based on natural talent that Gilbert can play in this league. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]He came into a CB-intensive system and eventually outplayed Skrine, who was a multi-year veteran. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]PS: Desir had too few snaps for this data to be meaningful but subjectively he looked promising as well. [/SIZE]

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top