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Merged Spygate thread (1 Viewer)

moleculo said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
...

Sadly, the mods don't see any problem with the nasty title and are actually surprised that Patriot fans would have any kind of a problem with it.

Maybe we need to start a new thread about obsessive Pats haters, not the op of this thread, but the hard core who seem to take great pleasure in dumping on the pats and incessantly try to rob any and all joy from being a pats fans. Let me make it clear, we wouldn't call out anyone in particular (so as not to offend anyone personally) and hopefully we could generate some good discussion about the subject. Nobody has to post in the thread that doesn't want to and we wouldn't name names. We could have an open discussion about what might really be bothering these people and what motivates them.

All we need is a catchy title that will generate a lot of good discussion; how about we call it something like "Pats haters general douchebaggyness continues unabated into 14th year"

Do you think it would be ok? :coffee:
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dude...you've been here since 2003. you should know the answer to this question: who does the term "whiny tool" refer to?
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Actually it goes back to 2001 and an objective person might refer to it as more of a chicken and egg thing. I've long since buried the hatchet, but since you brought it up; imho the more relevant trivia question in relation to this nasty thread might be who first used the derogatory term?

 
Koya said:
Pats fans, in all serious, no shtick - This thread is all about your reactions. There are some shady details in reality, but they could certainly be discussed in a rational manner.

However, as I mentioned before, the moths to a flame, overly sensitive reaction is so out of balance, that legit conversation becomes a silly game that is fed into by this incessant need to protect and brag and assume others are jealous.

Trust me, most of us are not jealous. Maybe some folks in the NFC East who keep getting beat down. Now, there is an "evil empire" feeling amongst the general fan base which is partly because of the success, but fueled moreso by BB's being a curt ####### and Pretty Boy Brady (jealousy certainly exists there for many, admitted or not) #####ing about not getting calls when he gets most of them and, of course, very legit concerns about not skirting the rules, but outright cheating.

However, please stop with the knee jerk reaction of "jealousy" and "haters" - I am neither. And I've explained why (been years since you've won, fortunate enough to root for a team that has won our last two SB matchups etc. But, when you jump to those reactions, it's simply too tempting to have fun with it. Yes, it's childish but damn, it's a fantasy football board. Have some sense of humor - not to mention a bit of context and maybe a BIT of a thicker skin.
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If you weren't jealous you wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Stop with the excuses already.

 
devouredbychaos said:
Koya said:
Pats fans, in all serious, no shtick - This thread is all about your reactions. There are some shady details in reality, but they could certainly be discussed in a rational manner.

However, as I mentioned before, the moths to a flame, overly sensitive reaction is so out of balance, that legit conversation becomes a silly game that is fed into by this incessant need to protect and brag and assume others are jealous.

Trust me, most of us are not jealous. Maybe some folks in the NFC East who keep getting beat down. Now, there is an "evil empire" feeling amongst the general fan base which is partly because of the success, but fueled moreso by BB's being a curt ####### and Pretty Boy Brady (jealousy certainly exists there for many, admitted or not) #####ing about not getting calls when he gets most of them and, of course, very legit concerns about not skirting the rules, but outright cheating.

However, please stop with the knee jerk reaction of "jealousy" and "haters" - I am neither. And I've explained why (been years since you've won, fortunate enough to root for a team that has won our last two SB matchups etc. But, when you jump to those reactions, it's simply too tempting to have fun with it. Yes, it's childish but damn, it's a fantasy football board. Have some sense of humor - not to mention a bit of context and maybe a BIT of a thicker skin.
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If you weren't jealous you wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Stop with the excuses already.
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Either that or they are bored at work and just seeing what it takes to get you and a few others to respond.

 
devouredbychaos said:
Koya said:
Pats fans, in all serious, no shtick - This thread is all about your reactions. There are some shady details in reality, but they could certainly be discussed in a rational manner.

However, as I mentioned before, the moths to a flame, overly sensitive reaction is so out of balance, that legit conversation becomes a silly game that is fed into by this incessant need to protect and brag and assume others are jealous.

Trust me, most of us are not jealous. Maybe some folks in the NFC East who keep getting beat down. Now, there is an "evil empire" feeling amongst the general fan base which is partly because of the success, but fueled moreso by BB's being a curt ####### and Pretty Boy Brady (jealousy certainly exists there for many, admitted or not) #####ing about not getting calls when he gets most of them and, of course, very legit concerns about not skirting the rules, but outright cheating.

However, please stop with the knee jerk reaction of "jealousy" and "haters" - I am neither. And I've explained why (been years since you've won, fortunate enough to root for a team that has won our last two SB matchups etc. But, when you jump to those reactions, it's simply too tempting to have fun with it. Yes, it's childish but damn, it's a fantasy football board. Have some sense of humor - not to mention a bit of context and maybe a BIT of a thicker skin.
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If you weren't jealous you wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Stop with the excuses already.
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You see to understand my psyche quite well. Impressive.

Once again, why would I, as a Giants fan of all people, be jealous? We took away your historic moment and then beat you again.

Sure, we suck this year... Giants have been up and down a bunch, but damn, those ups were nice. But I don't care anymore for the Pats than any other team, though I enjoy watching a whiny fan base lose, I admit. No one's perfect.

However, it's hardly jealousy. It's more just simply stupid fun, which you feed into wonderfully.

 
KellysHeroes said:
Steve Tasker said:
Gandalf said:
What I can't figure out is why everyone seems to hate the Pats and the fans? Having grown up in the Boston area, there were literally decades when they were one of the worst teams in the league. Yes they won superbowls but people really hate BB and Brady. Why exactly? I can understand if you are from another AFC East town or from Carolina, St. Louis or Philly, but the league-wide hate is puzzling. Ah well. I guess it is what is it. Haters gonna hate.
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It's jealousy.

The Patriots are a contender every year. They have a genius coach and a HOF QB who ####s a supermodel and has a Hollywood actress as a baby-mama and throws for 350 yards and 4 TDs without breaking a sweat. They've won the division 11 of the last 13 years, most of those years with virtually no competition. They've made the playoffs 15 of the last 18 years.

Inevitably, when a team is really good, there are some fans who take it a little too far with the taunting. And when a team is really good for a really long time, those same certain fans can become insufferable. Like, you know, Yankees fans. ;)
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call it what you want, The Pats have been a top money maker for the NFL for the past 8 or so yrs and they were doing something deemed illegal by the NFL during their successful dynasty. The NFL felt that what they found was so damaging to their image that they destroyed what they found to protect themselves and The Pats.

It so sleazy that a U.S. Senator publically called them out.

Its very similar to Ray Lewis, just as the Pats will always be accused of being cheaters Lewis will always be accused of murder by the fans until he tells us exactly what he did. The fact that he won't tell us makes us think that his hands are extremely dirty.
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Jealous hater.

 
thatguythere said:
devouredbychaos said:
Koya said:
Pats fans, in all serious, no shtick - This thread is all about your reactions. There are some shady details in reality, but they could certainly be discussed in a rational manner.

However, as I mentioned before, the moths to a flame, overly sensitive reaction is so out of balance, that legit conversation becomes a silly game that is fed into by this incessant need to protect and brag and assume others are jealous.

Trust me, most of us are not jealous. Maybe some folks in the NFC East who keep getting beat down. Now, there is an "evil empire" feeling amongst the general fan base which is partly because of the success, but fueled moreso by BB's being a curt ####### and Pretty Boy Brady (jealousy certainly exists there for many, admitted or not) #####ing about not getting calls when he gets most of them and, of course, very legit concerns about not skirting the rules, but outright cheating.

However, please stop with the knee jerk reaction of "jealousy" and "haters" - I am neither. And I've explained why (been years since you've won, fortunate enough to root for a team that has won our last two SB matchups etc. But, when you jump to those reactions, it's simply too tempting to have fun with it. Yes, it's childish but damn, it's a fantasy football board. Have some sense of humor - not to mention a bit of context and maybe a BIT of a thicker skin.
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If you weren't jealous you wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Stop with the excuses already.
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Either that or they are bored at work and just seeing what it takes to get you and a few others to respond.
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You'd think they would have figured it out by now. But somehow it's a blind group that can't understand why someone WOULDN'T be jealous of the vaunted cheatriots.

 
Jercules said:
Tanner9919 said:
what started it all was the Tuck Rule, something never used before, or since.

Pats definitely cheated..if the NFL told them to burn the tapes, why didn't they also tell 31 other teams to do the same thing?

Pats got caught cheating again last year, in a game v. Jets, where they illegally lined up to block a FG - a penalty was called only because the Jets coaching staff alerted the refs beforehand..

BB is the dirtiest coach in NFL history.he's a cheat.

Brady's records , and the 3 SB wins, will always have an asterisk next to them..

CLEARLY Goodell is in Bob Kraft's pocket. who was the main guy going on the talk shows ( CBS morning show in particular) defending Goodell's handling of the Rice issue? Bob Kraft.

notice the Seahawks, Browns, Bears owners never said anything about it? Mara made some remarks, added his 2 cents, but it was all Bob Kraft..

I'll bet $$ that when Goodell disappeared for two weeks during the Rice fiasco, he was somewhere in the South Pacific,flown there aboard Krafts personal aircraft..

Pats fans can look the other way but they can't outrun the Cheating scandal - stop calling it spygate,call it what it was, 'cheating'..

and maybe coaches and players dont get involved because they dont want to be blacklisted from the NFL for speaking up..
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Well it's a well known fact sonny-jim that there's a secret society of the 5 wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentaverate. Who run everything in the world including the newspapers, & meet tri-annually in a secrect country mansion in Colorado known as The Meadows.

(So who's in this Pentaverate?)

The Queen, the Getty's, the Rothschilds, the Vatican & Colonel Sanders before he went #### up. Ooh I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face! Ohh you're gonna buy my chicken! Oohhh!

(Dad, how can you hate the Colonel?)

Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smart ###!
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Best post I've ever seen in this place. Awesome.
 
The Giants have won a Super Bowl in each of the last 4 decades with zero accusations of cheating. If there's a fanbase in football that has no reason to be jealous, it's them.

 
As a Pats fan, I'm happy my team was looking to gain an advantage in all aspects of the game. My only hope is that they haven't stopped just because they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

 
Hoss Style said:
Koya said:
General Tso said:
Koya said:
moleculo said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Again I will ask you, do you believe there are ANY new facts in the article and that the OP was just trying to generate a healthy discussion?

If your answer to both isn't no, then please elaborate.
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the point about the helmet not cutting off at the appropriate time seemed new and interesting to me. seemed worthy of sharing, even if it's just a baseless rumor. :shrug:
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I had never heard that rumor and find it interesting. Honestly, I never felt like spy-gate was all that big of a deal. To me, it feels like it's just barely over the line and it's something that I'd hope my teams coach was doing - if you aren't pushing the envelope, you aren't really trying. Frankly, I enjoy that Belicihick pushes the envelope, doing what he can to gain an edge.

The audio headset thing though - that's a big deal. Huge. Complete game-changer for me, if true. If the QB call the play, get under center, and be warned where the blitz is coming from, or what kind of coverage is called in real time - that's a tremendous advantage.
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Until now, spygate has been fun material with which to abuse all too gullible Pats fans. Especially since some of us are fortunate enough to be fans of the team that denied them history.

However, IF true, these latest accusations really cut to the heart of gaining an utterly unfair advantage. And let's admit it - would anyone put it past Belicheat to do this? With some organizations it would be tough to imagine, but not here.

Oh, did I mention how easy it is to get Pats fans riled up by reminding them of opportunities forever lost?
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With all due respect, shouldn't you Giants fans be hiding under a rock today?
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A crap game like yesterday comes and goes.

18-ONE will last forever.
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C'mon man. Giving one of your SuperBowl wins a nickname referring to the Patriots' record just screams "obsessive".

Just a heads up - that doesn't look good.

And no, I'm not a Pats fan. I just couldn't bear watching you stab yourself with an irony knife without mentioning it.
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:lmao:

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
Baloney Sandwich said:
As a Pats fan, I'm happy my team was looking to gain an advantage in all aspects of the game. My only hope is that they haven't stopped just because they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
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I can't say I'd share the sentiment, but at least you are owning it, unlike most on the NE side of this debate.
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I consider taking illegal substances cheating so it is pretty easy to see all teams cheat or at least have cheaters playing for them. If you don't consider that cheating, why not? The only way I can see being upset about what the Patriots did but turning your eye to the cheating that occurs by players on the juice is if you rationalize the latter but not the former. That seems intellectually dishonest.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Hoss Style said:
Koya said:
General Tso said:
Koya said:
moleculo said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Again I will ask you, do you believe there are ANY new facts in the article and that the OP was just trying to generate a healthy discussion?

If your answer to both isn't no, then please elaborate.
Click to expand...
the point about the helmet not cutting off at the appropriate time seemed new and interesting to me. seemed worthy of sharing, even if it's just a baseless rumor. :shrug:
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I had never heard that rumor and find it interesting. Honestly, I never felt like spy-gate was all that big of a deal. To me, it feels like it's just barely over the line and it's something that I'd hope my teams coach was doing - if you aren't pushing the envelope, you aren't really trying. Frankly, I enjoy that Belicihick pushes the envelope, doing what he can to gain an edge.

The audio headset thing though - that's a big deal. Huge. Complete game-changer for me, if true. If the QB call the play, get under center, and be warned where the blitz is coming from, or what kind of coverage is called in real time - that's a tremendous advantage.
Click to expand...
Until now, spygate has been fun material with which to abuse all too gullible Pats fans. Especially since some of us are fortunate enough to be fans of the team that denied them history.

However, IF true, these latest accusations really cut to the heart of gaining an utterly unfair advantage. And let's admit it - would anyone put it past Belicheat to do this? With some organizations it would be tough to imagine, but not here.

Oh, did I mention how easy it is to get Pats fans riled up by reminding them of opportunities forever lost?
Click to expand...
With all due respect, shouldn't you Giants fans be hiding under a rock today?
Click to expand...
A crap game like yesterday comes and goes.

18-ONE will last forever.
Click to expand...
C'mon man. Giving one of your SuperBowl wins a nickname referring to the Patriots' record just screams "obsessive".

Just a heads up - that doesn't look good.

And no, I'm not a Pats fan. I just couldn't bear watching you stab yourself with an irony knife without mentioning it.
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:lmao:
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Um, I was not "naming" a super bowl victory.

And honestly, if I cared so much as an ounce of what I'm thought of in one thread on a message board where I've been part of the i-community for nearly 15 years, maybe I'd be a bit more reserved in my fun poking.

I've never been an attention whore on these boards ( :hi: Oats) , but admit, there's a guilty pleasure reeling them in within this thread.

 
Koya said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Hoss Style said:
Koya said:
General Tso said:
Koya said:
moleculo said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Again I will ask you, do you believe there are ANY new facts in the article and that the OP was just trying to generate a healthy discussion?

If your answer to both isn't no, then please elaborate.
Click to expand...
the point about the helmet not cutting off at the appropriate time seemed new and interesting to me. seemed worthy of sharing, even if it's just a baseless rumor. :shrug:
Click to expand...
I had never heard that rumor and find it interesting. Honestly, I never felt like spy-gate was all that big of a deal. To me, it feels like it's just barely over the line and it's something that I'd hope my teams coach was doing - if you aren't pushing the envelope, you aren't really trying. Frankly, I enjoy that Belicihick pushes the envelope, doing what he can to gain an edge.

The audio headset thing though - that's a big deal. Huge. Complete game-changer for me, if true. If the QB call the play, get under center, and be warned where the blitz is coming from, or what kind of coverage is called in real time - that's a tremendous advantage.
Click to expand...
Until now, spygate has been fun material with which to abuse all too gullible Pats fans. Especially since some of us are fortunate enough to be fans of the team that denied them history.

However, IF true, these latest accusations really cut to the heart of gaining an utterly unfair advantage. And let's admit it - would anyone put it past Belicheat to do this? With some organizations it would be tough to imagine, but not here.

Oh, did I mention how easy it is to get Pats fans riled up by reminding them of opportunities forever lost?
Click to expand...
With all due respect, shouldn't you Giants fans be hiding under a rock today?
Click to expand...
A crap game like yesterday comes and goes.

18-ONE will last forever.
Click to expand...
C'mon man. Giving one of your SuperBowl wins a nickname referring to the Patriots' record just screams "obsessive".

Just a heads up - that doesn't look good.

And no, I'm not a Pats fan. I just couldn't bear watching you stab yourself with an irony knife without mentioning it.
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:lmao:
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Um, I was not "naming" a super bowl victory.

And honestly, if I cared so much as an ounce of what I'm thought of in one thread on a message board where I've been part of the i-community for nearly 15 years, maybe I'd be a bit more reserved in my fun poking.

I've never been an attention whore on these boards ( :hi: Oats) , but admit, there's a guilty pleasure reeling them in within this thread.
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dude, you have 20 posts in here trying to convince somebody of something.

 
FlapJacks said:
msudaisy26 said:
People don't keep secrets, it takes a lot of people to pull something like this off for just one year let alone many years. Someone would have sold this story long ago to TMZ or someone and cashed in.

IF it did happen and it is a big if, there would be an advantage to to talking after the 15 seconds were up, but as the play develops? You are joking right? So they snap the ball and Brady is drops back and is looking for an open receiver and he has one of his coaches in his ear telling him which way to look or watch out for that late blitzer on the right. Quarterbacks get about 2 to 4 seconds to make up their mind where they are going with the ball, a coach yelling into your helmet would do a lot more damage than good.
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It would only take a couple of coaches and Brady to pull off what is alleged....
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You say that with a lot of confidence. There are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of RF frequencies being utilized at any given NFL game. There are also NFL personnel who coordinate and monitor these channels at every NFL game. Given those factors, I would thing that consistently utilizing a separate channel and keeping it secret would take a fair amount of technical knowledge. Brady is a smart guy, but I'm not sure he has network engineer credentials.

I thought I had researched Sidelinecamerainplainviewgate pretty extensively, but I had never heard the Flutie stuff before this. As near as I can tell its'origin was an internet post quoting a Dan Lebatard radio interview where he allegedly says he heard this rumor from someone else, not from Flutie, and the original supposed quote from Lebatard doesn't say anything about going past the 15 cutoff. That appears to be whole cloth embellishment from O'Leary. 4th hand at least, and embellished for effect to boot, not exactly a high confidence account.

 
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Kool-Aid Larry said:
Koya said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Hoss Style said:
Koya said:
General Tso said:
Koya said:
moleculo said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Again I will ask you, do you believe there are ANY new facts in the article and that the OP was just trying to generate a healthy discussion?

If your answer to both isn't no, then please elaborate.
Click to expand...
the point about the helmet not cutting off at the appropriate time seemed new and interesting to me. seemed worthy of sharing, even if it's just a baseless rumor. :shrug:
Click to expand...
I had never heard that rumor and find it interesting. Honestly, I never felt like spy-gate was all that big of a deal. To me, it feels like it's just barely over the line and it's something that I'd hope my teams coach was doing - if you aren't pushing the envelope, you aren't really trying. Frankly, I enjoy that Belicihick pushes the envelope, doing what he can to gain an edge.

The audio headset thing though - that's a big deal. Huge. Complete game-changer for me, if true. If the QB call the play, get under center, and be warned where the blitz is coming from, or what kind of coverage is called in real time - that's a tremendous advantage.
Click to expand...
Until now, spygate has been fun material with which to abuse all too gullible Pats fans. Especially since some of us are fortunate enough to be fans of the team that denied them history.

However, IF true, these latest accusations really cut to the heart of gaining an utterly unfair advantage. And let's admit it - would anyone put it past Belicheat to do this? With some organizations it would be tough to imagine, but not here.

Oh, did I mention how easy it is to get Pats fans riled up by reminding them of opportunities forever lost?
Click to expand...
With all due respect, shouldn't you Giants fans be hiding under a rock today?
Click to expand...
A crap game like yesterday comes and goes.

18-ONE will last forever.
Click to expand...
C'mon man. Giving one of your SuperBowl wins a nickname referring to the Patriots' record just screams "obsessive".

Just a heads up - that doesn't look good.

And no, I'm not a Pats fan. I just couldn't bear watching you stab yourself with an irony knife without mentioning it.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
Click to expand...
Um, I was not "naming" a super bowl victory.

And honestly, if I cared so much as an ounce of what I'm thought of in one thread on a message board where I've been part of the i-community for nearly 15 years, maybe I'd be a bit more reserved in my fun poking.

I've never been an attention whore on these boards ( :hi: Oats) , but admit, there's a guilty pleasure reeling them in within this thread.
Click to expand...
dude, you have 20 posts in here trying to convince somebody of something.
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1. I don't believe you understand my motivations. Could not care less about convincing anyone. But it's been fun. Which brings me to

2. I clearly stated that this one specific thread is the exception. Why? If I have to explain, see #1

 
Back to the topic a bit...

Regardless of whether or not these new allegations are true, a few years ago I would have struggled to believe that Goodell would have covered up as much as some people think he did back with Spygate.

After seeing how he's been caught lying during this Ray Rice fiasco, though, I'm much more open to the thought that Goodell would absolutely throw away/cover up/deny evidence if he thought it would hurt The League/an owner/his image.

I used to brush it off relating to the oft asked question of why he would destroy the tapes and hand out punishment before the investigation was complete, but now I wouldn't be shocked if he actually knew of other things that never came out in addition to being nefarious with the Spygate situation.

This is not a knock on the Pats and what they did or didn't do, but a knock on The Commish and how shady this guy seems to be. I think it actually hurts The Pats that they have this guy who's buddies with their owner. It's kind of a suspicion by proxy situation, unfortunately.

 
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I think another issue that never got discussed much was what would have happened if the league did a full data dump disclosure on the Patriots. Let's just say the Pats had 10 types of rules violations. If they came out and only addressed the violations for the Patriots, people would have wanted the team kicked out of the league. In turn, the Pats (and by extension the NFL) would have come out with accusations and rules violations on all the other teams. If 31 teams were found to have broken league rules in any number of areas, then what? Were they going to punish the entire league? Fine all teams and coaches? Take away everyone's draft picks? If the Pats had broken 10 rules but the Steelers or Packers or Niners had broken 8, would they get off scott free?

Goodell opted to make things go away as quickly as possible as it would have opened Pandora's Box in terms of dirt and rules violations that would have been out in clear view. Again, I am not trying to give the Pats a pass on what they did. Yes, they "cheated" and they were punished for what they did. But the majority of fans, players, and coaches have moved on with that decision and a small minority still wants the Pats stripped of titles and apparently more punishment levied against them.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I think another issue that never got discussed much was what would have happened if the league did a full data dump disclosure on the Patriots. Let's just say the Pats had 10 types of rules violations. If they came out and only addressed the violations for the Patriots, people would have wanted the team kicked out of the league. In turn, the Pats (and by extension the NFL) would have come out with accusations and rules violations on all the other teams. If 31 teams were found to have broken league rules in any number of areas, then what? Were they going to punish the entire league? Fine all teams and coaches? Take away everyone's draft picks? If the Pats had broken 10 rules but the Steelers or Packers or Niners had broken 8, would they get off scott free?

Goodell opted to make things go away as quickly as possible as it would have opened Pandora's Box in terms of dirt and rules violations that would have been out in clear view. Again, I am not trying to give the Pats a pass on what they did. Yes, they "cheated" and they were punished for what they did. But the majority of fans, players, and coaches have moved on with that decision and a small minority still wants the Pats stripped of titles and apparently more punishment levied against them.
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Could be. I just struggle with the opinion that it wasn't a big deal, yet he decided to hand down the largest fines in the history of the NFL. If he knew everyone was doing the same thing, and in actuality, it wasn't a big deal, then he could have handed down minor fines. He didn't.

I could see the other side of the coin being true, as well - He handed out the extreme punishment and then dropped the subject like a lead brick. I don't see how he couldn't have known that other teams were doing similar things. If so, then the punishment being so severe would lead me to believe that something extra was going on, above and beyond the normal "gamesmanship". He wasn't going to embarrass Kraft with making it public, so he levied the punishment and then walked away.

Again, I don't trust Goodell farther than I could throw him, and he's a heavy son of a #####.

 
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Koya said:
Saw the article earlier today.

If its REALLY true, then I have no issue discrediting the cheationships.
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Me too. In fact, I think Brady and Bellichick should be banned from the NFL. Why isn't this as serious as what Pete Rose did? He is still in baseball limbo.

 
az_prof said:
Koya said:
Saw the article earlier today.

If its REALLY true, then I have no issue discrediting the cheationships.
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Me too. In fact, I think Brady and Bellichick should be banned from the NFL. Why isn't this as serious as what Pete Rose did? He is still in baseball limbo.
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I have no idea if the accusations are true or not . . . but let's assess what is alleged to have happened. Tom Brady's helmet was apparently lying around on the bench and Doug Flutie is said to have heard communication through the speaker in the helmet that went on past the 15 second rule.

This means that Tom Brady did not have his helmet on. But if the coaching staff was communicating with Brady as is alleged, then that meant that Brady was in the game. And if Brady was in the game, then he would have had his helmet on.

For the story to be true, both Flutie and Brady would have had to have their helmets off, have Brady grab the wrong helmet, and then go into the game. Would Flutie's helmet even fit Brady? Flutie 5'10", 180 lbs, Brady 6'4", 225 pounds. Wouldn't Brady notice that he no longer had his secret channel of communication? I won't even bother trying to hash out the logistics of trying to decipher the process of videotaping and analyzing a signal, figuring out the defense's play call, and trying to inform Brady on the fly seemingly mid-play.

Since Flutie was there for only one season, the only other opportunity that something could have happened would be if BOTH QBs were not in the game . . . which occurred in the final game of the season when Matt Cassel started. But again, why would the coaching staff have Brady with the secret helmet ear piece in a game when he only played the first series (in a game they intentionally were trying to lose to get a better playoff match up)? That was the famous drop kick game for Flutie, his last game in the NFL. And if Brady were not in the game, the coaching staff would not have been communicating with him.

Bottom line, I am having a hard time trying to figure out a scenario where the alleged situation took place.

 
they take brady out of the game, who takes helmet off and sets it down

flutie mistakenly picks helmet up and enters game

brady goes up to concession stand

belichick, not realizing flutie's mistake, assumes brady still has helmet on and calls him to pick up an extra box of nachos

pretty simple if you think about it

 
cstu said:
ponchsox said:
Lol. Get over it.
Click to expand...
Is there a single Patriots fan who wants to know the truth or are you just happy with your three Super Bowl titles regardless?
Click to expand...
I would love for the truth to come out. So we can finally stop this BS.

Let's use a little common sense...

The NFL controls the helmet audio because they turn it off after 25 seconds passes on the play clock.

You could have a second radio in the helmet that is not controlled by the NFL, but doesn't the NFL inspect these helmets before during and after the game?

If they did have a second radio, the NFL is monitoring all frequencies. Even if they weren't, Every NFL fan that believed the Pats are cheating would smuggle in a scanner of their own. Hoping to break the conspiracy wide open.

Let's go back to Spygate.

Video taping is really unnecessary to steal the signals. It would take more time using recorded media.

Give me 2 guys in the stands with hands free cell phones. One watches the coordinators and the others watches the play.

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms"

Guy 2 "Defensed Blitzed"

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms with one leg in the air"

Guy 2 " Defense Blitzed with safety"

Guy 1 "Coordinator lifted his leg"

Guy 2 "There is no play, it is a timeout"

Guy 1 "Nevermind, Coordinator is pissing on the hydrant"

Relay that info to the QB and you now have a completely different ball game.

Do this in advance and then you can practice this. Isn't that scouting? Hasn't that been a long practiced technique in all sports?

If the Pat's have been cheating all this time, do you really think they would have lost the 2 Superbowls? Do you think they decided to play it straight against one of the Manning brothers? You could say the the Giants gave 3 plays, 2 of which were fake. But what about the helmet audio? The Giant's couldn't counter that. You can't use a jammer because that would jam all frequencies.

The asterisks can go on the titles. But the footnote should read, despite repeated accusations, there is no real evidence of cheating.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tech/post/_/id/2573/robert-griffin-iii-helmet

David Viglione, an expert on communication frequency and a former resident agent of the Buffalo office of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), says helmet hacking is more complicated than it might appear.


“The radio spectrum at NFL games is usually monitored pretty close by the league's frequency coordinator,” he said. “They have special equipment set up to locate almost any interference problem. If there was an overriding signal, they may be able to see it and record it.”

Fortunately for NFL coaches, Viglione adds that actually intercepting communication would be very difficult, and hackers would need to record it and then use special software to decode the signal.
Click to expand...
 
Anarchy99 said:
az_prof said:
Koya said:
Saw the article earlier today.

If its REALLY true, then I have no issue discrediting the cheationships.
Click to expand...
Me too. In fact, I think Brady and Bellichick should be banned from the NFL. Why isn't this as serious as what Pete Rose did? He is still in baseball limbo.
Click to expand...
I have no idea if the accusations are true or not . . . but let's assess what is alleged to have happened. Tom Brady's helmet was apparently lying around on the bench and Doug Flutie is said to have heard communication through the speaker in the helmet that went on past the 15 second rule.

This means that Tom Brady did not have his helmet on. But if the coaching staff was communicating with Brady as is alleged, then that meant that Brady was in the game. And if Brady was in the game, then he would have had his helmet on.

For the story to be true, both Flutie and Brady would have had to have their helmets off, have Brady grab the wrong helmet, and then go into the game. Would Flutie's helmet even fit Brady? Flutie 5'10", 180 lbs, Brady 6'4", 225 pounds. Wouldn't Brady notice that he no longer had his secret channel of communication? I won't even bother trying to hash out the logistics of trying to decipher the process of videotaping and analyzing a signal, figuring out the defense's play call, and trying to inform Brady on the fly seemingly mid-play.

Since Flutie was there for only one season, the only other opportunity that something could have happened would be if BOTH QBs were not in the game . . . which occurred in the final game of the season when Matt Cassel started. But again, why would the coaching staff have Brady with the secret helmet ear piece in a game when he only played the first series (in a game they intentionally were trying to lose to get a better playoff match up)? That was the famous drop kick game for Flutie, his last game in the NFL. And if Brady were not in the game, the coaching staff would not have been communicating with him.

Bottom line, I am having a hard time trying to figure out a scenario where the alleged situation took place.
Click to expand...
cause they have been doing it so long they forgot to turn it off?

 
Run It Up said:
Koya

Jokes on them - its like I really am reading a thread from 10 years ago with a bunch of kids too edgy for their own good.
Click to expand...
Touche.

But it's still fun. :shrug: What can I say. I still like fart jokes, too. About the same level of intelligence I'd suggest.

 
"I'm not jealous of the Patriots"

YET, HERE YOU ALL ARE WASTING YOUR LIFE TELLING THESE SAPS HOW ####TY THEIR TEAM IS

 
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu said:
Here's Mort's original article regarding the 'frequency irregularities':

The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
And the league's finding;

“Other than the videotaping of coaching signals, there has been no evidence to substantiate a claim of misconduct by the Patriots on any of these matters,” Aiello wrote in an e-mail message.
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sports/football/11nfl.html

 
John Bender said:
"I'm not jealous of the Patriots"

YET, HERE YOU ALL ARE WASTING YOUR LIFE TELLING THESE SAPS HOW ####TY THEIR TEAM IS
Click to expand...
Actually, don't see many saying how ####ty the Pats are. Great history of winning.

There is some (legit) discussion about whether / how much cheating went on putting to (legit) question as to some validity of that success.

Mostly, it's overly sensitive and over reactive Pats fans that let idiots like me have a ball in here. Yes, it's base and sophomoric, but as noted - it's a message board.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
davper said:
cstu said:
ponchsox said:
Lol. Get over it.
Click to expand...
Is there a single Patriots fan who wants to know the truth or are you just happy with your three Super Bowl titles regardless?
Click to expand...
I would love for the truth to come out. So we can finally stop this BS.

Let's use a little common sense...

The NFL controls the helmet audio because they turn it off after 25 seconds passes on the play clock.

You could have a second radio in the helmet that is not controlled by the NFL, but doesn't the NFL inspect these helmets before during and after the game?

If they did have a second radio, the NFL is monitoring all frequencies. Even if they weren't, Every NFL fan that believed the Pats are cheating would smuggle in a scanner of their own. Hoping to break the conspiracy wide open.

Let's go back to Spygate.

Video taping is really unnecessary to steal the signals. It would take more time using recorded media.

Give me 2 guys in the stands with hands free cell phones. One watches the coordinators and the others watches the play.

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms"

Guy 2 "Defensed Blitzed"

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms with one leg in the air"

Guy 2 " Defense Blitzed with safety"

Guy 1 "Coordinator lifted his leg"

Guy 2 "There is no play, it is a timeout"

Guy 1 "Nevermind, Coordinator is pissing on the hydrant"

Relay that info to the QB and you now have a completely different ball game.

Do this in advance and then you can practice this. Isn't that scouting? Hasn't that been a long practiced technique in all sports?

If the Pat's have been cheating all this time, do you really think they would have lost the 2 Superbowls? Do you think they decided to play it straight against one of the Manning brothers? You could say the the Giants gave 3 plays, 2 of which were fake. But what about the helmet audio? The Giant's couldn't counter that. You can't use a jammer because that would jam all frequencies.

The asterisks can go on the titles. But the footnote should read, despite repeated accusations, there is no real evidence of cheating.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tech/post/_/id/2573/robert-griffin-iii-helmet

David Viglione, an expert on communication frequency and a former resident agent of the Buffalo office of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), says helmet hacking is more complicated than it might appear.


“The radio spectrum at NFL games is usually monitored pretty close by the league's frequency coordinator,” he said. “They have special equipment set up to locate almost any interference problem. If there was an overriding signal, they may be able to see it and record it.”

Fortunately for NFL coaches, Viglione adds that actually intercepting communication would be very difficult, and hackers would need to record it and then use special software to decode the signal.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
good article. It says they switched to a digital system in 2011, which obviously is after the alleged shenanigans. So, whatever they did was tinkering with the analog stuff. I'm not nearly enough of an experts to know what was done, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of folks in Cambridge, MA who could figure out to to make it work, and would do it for the equivalent of Tom Brady's pocket change.

WRT your cell phone plan - that's why cell-phones and other technology has been illegal on sidelines since forever. That's why they print images of the defense and fax them down - certainly, that would be much easier to do on an i-pad, but that would allow other technology. In a way, the NFL has frozen the technology on the sidelines to what was available in the 60's.

Think about that for a second - how much would an ipad with some rudimentary algorithms built in help coaches? Things like calculations on opposition tendencies, help with play calling, clock usage, etc. It would be a miracle for coaches like Fox or Reid.

 
moleculo said:
davper said:
cstu said:
ponchsox said:
Lol. Get over it.
Click to expand...
Is there a single Patriots fan who wants to know the truth or are you just happy with your three Super Bowl titles regardless?
Click to expand...
I would love for the truth to come out. So we can finally stop this BS.

Let's use a little common sense...

The NFL controls the helmet audio because they turn it off after 25 seconds passes on the play clock.

You could have a second radio in the helmet that is not controlled by the NFL, but doesn't the NFL inspect these helmets before during and after the game?

If they did have a second radio, the NFL is monitoring all frequencies. Even if they weren't, Every NFL fan that believed the Pats are cheating would smuggle in a scanner of their own. Hoping to break the conspiracy wide open.

Let's go back to Spygate.

Video taping is really unnecessary to steal the signals. It would take more time using recorded media.

Give me 2 guys in the stands with hands free cell phones. One watches the coordinators and the others watches the play.

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms"

Guy 2 "Defensed Blitzed"

Guy 1 "Coordinator is flapping his arms with one leg in the air"

Guy 2 " Defense Blitzed with safety"

Guy 1 "Coordinator lifted his leg"

Guy 2 "There is no play, it is a timeout"

Guy 1 "Nevermind, Coordinator is pissing on the hydrant"

Relay that info to the QB and you now have a completely different ball game.

Do this in advance and then you can practice this. Isn't that scouting? Hasn't that been a long practiced technique in all sports?

If the Pat's have been cheating all this time, do you really think they would have lost the 2 Superbowls? Do you think they decided to play it straight against one of the Manning brothers? You could say the the Giants gave 3 plays, 2 of which were fake. But what about the helmet audio? The Giant's couldn't counter that. You can't use a jammer because that would jam all frequencies.

The asterisks can go on the titles. But the footnote should read, despite repeated accusations, there is no real evidence of cheating.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tech/post/_/id/2573/robert-griffin-iii-helmet

David Viglione, an expert on communication frequency and a former resident agent of the Buffalo office of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), says helmet hacking is more complicated than it might appear.

“The radio spectrum at NFL games is usually monitored pretty close by the league's frequency coordinator,” he said. “They have special equipment set up to locate almost any interference problem. If there was an overriding signal, they may be able to see it and record it.”

Fortunately for NFL coaches, Viglione adds that actually intercepting communication would be very difficult, and hackers would need to record it and then use special software to decode the signal.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
good article. It says they switched to a digital system in 2011, which obviously is after the alleged shenanigans. So, whatever they did was tinkering with the analog stuff. I'm not nearly enough of an experts to know what was done, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of folks in Cambridge, MA who could figure out to to make it work, and would do it for the equivalent of Tom Brady's pocket change.WRT your cell phone plan - that's why cell-phones and other technology has been illegal on sidelines since forever. That's why they print images of the defense and fax them down - certainly, that would be much easier to do on an i-pad, but that would allow other technology. In a way, the NFL has frozen the technology on the sidelines to what was available in the 60's.

Think about that for a second - how much would an ipad with some rudimentary algorithms built in help coaches? Things like calculations on opposition tendencies, help with play calling, clock usage, etc. It would be a miracle for coaches like Fox or Reid.
Click to expand...
They do look at images from the previous drive on the tablets now, actually. They don't print out the papers any more.

 
No baseless rumors from some doochbag trying to sell a book, just facts from someone who would know and has no reason to lie.

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it.

The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams.

“We didn’t lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things,” Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “[if] they’re guilty of anything they’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.”

Cowher, who coached the Steelers from 1992-2006, said what the Patriots did happened regularly in the NFL before the league allowed coordinators to relay plays to their quarterback and defensive signal-caller via a helmet radio.

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”Scott Brown | ESPN.com

From the ESPN Steeler site:

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate
Click to expand...
Lets have a good discussion, no name calling and unlike that other thread we aren't going to allow any of that "possible" or "rumor" type crap. Lets stick to the facts and see where it leads us.

More to come..................

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Lets have a good discussion, no name calling and unlike that other thread we aren't going to allow any of that "possible" or "rumor" type crap. Lets stick to the facts and see where it leads us.
Click to expand...
I admire your hope if you think any of the above can actually happen here. With a majority of the members it can happen, but there is one rule of the Shark Pool. There is always someone pissing in it, unfortunately.

Of course the Patriots didn't cheat. But there will always be haters just like for the 49ers, Cowboys and other previously successful teams.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
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