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Would It Be Bad for the Economy If Oil Fell to $3 a Barrel? (1 Viewer)

Jack White

Jack White

Footballguy
Gary North is a hero of mine. For most of his life, he has worked 12 hours a day, Monday through Saturday. His output as a thinker, economist, writer and marketer is prolific.

Here he takes on the Keynesians on the subject of oil prices.

As the Kevin Spacy character in Swimming With Sharks would say, "Shut up, listen and learn."

http://www.garynorth.com/public/13231.cfm

 
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.

 
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Tiger Fan said:
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.
Click to expand...
The point of a headline is to grab attention and arouse curiosity so you'll continue reading.

The points he makes have nothing to do with a literal price of $3.

 
Jack White said:
Tiger Fan said:
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.
Click to expand...
The point of a headline is to grab attention and arouse curiosity so you'll continue reading.

The points he makes have nothing to do with a literal price of $3.
Click to expand...
I would have gone with a "Nickel a Barrel" then. Just imagine how much attention it would grab!
 
Jack White said:
Tiger Fan said:
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.
Click to expand...
The point of a headline is to grab attention and arouse curiosity so you'll continue reading.

The points he makes have nothing to do with a literal price of $3.
Click to expand...
My point is that he would have been more effective being realistic. Most folks who have an understanding of the industry would just automatically dismiss it b/c of the headline. I know I did at first. I only read it later b/c I got bored

 
Tiger Fan said:
Jack White said:
Tiger Fan said:
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.
Click to expand...
The point of a headline is to grab attention and arouse curiosity so you'll continue reading.

The points he makes have nothing to do with a literal price of $3.
Click to expand...
My point is that he would have been more effective being realistic. Most folks who have an understanding of the industry would just automatically dismiss it b/c of the headline. I know I did at first. I only read it later b/c I got bored
Click to expand...
Fair enough. But how many people are intimately familiar with the oil industry?

Any comments on the contents of the piece?

 
Henry Ford said:
"We are heading for a disaster greater than anything the world has experienced since the bubonic plague of the mid-14th century." - Gary North on Y2K
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Oh, OK, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to discredit Gary North by picking out one-sentence quotes out of the the millions of words that he's published.

He was wrong about Y2K, but so were a lot of other people.

Anyway, can I get a link to all your published work so I can cherry-pick some similar quotes?

 
Jack White said:
Henry Ford said:
"We are heading for a disaster greater than anything the world has experienced since the bubonic plague of the mid-14th century." - Gary North on Y2K
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Oh, OK, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to discredit Gary North by picking out one-sentence quotes out of the the millions of words that he's published.

He was wrong about Y2K, but so were a lot of other people.

Anyway, can I get a link to all your published work so I can cherry-pick some similar quotes?
Click to expand...
No, I'm trying to explain to you that Gary North is a borderline insane religious zealot who wants to "train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

As someone who (I assumed up to this point probably) has a serious problem with theocratic regimes, you should know about the person you think is a genius. You're talking about a man who uses his religious philosophy - and it's bigoted, myopic, and arguably dangerous - as the basis for his economic theories. If you want to canonize him... well, I think he'd be ecstatic about that. However, you should know who you're talking about.

 
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29

 
I should say - I don't wholeheartedly disagree with everything North says - in fact, I by and large agree with his viewpoint on oil becoming cheap. But you seem like an intelligent guy - you can find better "heroes."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jack White said:
Tiger Fan said:
Jack White said:
Tiger Fan said:
If he would have used something more realistic instead of "$3 a barrel" maybe that holds more clout. No operator would be profitable at $3/barrel so either supply would stop.
Click to expand...
The point of a headline is to grab attention and arouse curiosity so you'll continue reading.

The points he makes have nothing to do with a literal price of $3.
Click to expand...
My point is that he would have been more effective being realistic. Most folks who have an understanding of the industry would just automatically dismiss it b/c of the headline. I know I did at first. I only read it later b/c I got bored
Click to expand...
Fair enough. But how many people are intimately familiar with the oil industry?

Any comments on the contents of the piece?
Click to expand...
No issue at all. I agree with the conclusion...although it's really just another economics lesson and has zero to do with oil price

 
North has written that the "starting point for all economic analysis" lies in the fact that "God [has] cursed the earth" in Genesis 3:17–19; this "made scarcity an inescapable fact of man's existence".[18] In his 1982 Dominion Covenant: Genesis, North wrote that mainstream modern economics, whether libertarian, conservative or liberal, is "in disintegration" because it is "humanist" in its approach and consequently rejects the notion that "biblical revelation" is necessary for sound economic theory. He also wrote that economics "must begin with the [biblical] story of creation" if it is not to collapse into "total chaos".[19]

 
Henry Ford said:
Jack White said:
Henry Ford said:
"We are heading for a disaster greater than anything the world has experienced since the bubonic plague of the mid-14th century." - Gary North on Y2K
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Oh, OK, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to discredit Gary North by picking out one-sentence quotes out of the the millions of words that he's published.

He was wrong about Y2K, but so were a lot of other people.

Anyway, can I get a link to all your published work so I can cherry-pick some similar quotes?
Click to expand...
No, I'm trying to explain to you that Gary North is a borderline insane religious zealot who wants to "train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

As someone who (I assumed up to this point probably) has a serious problem with theocratic regimes, you should know about the person you think is a genius. You're talking about a man who uses his religious philosophy - and it's bigoted, myopic, and arguably dangerous - as the basis for his economic theories. If you want to canonize him... well, I think he'd be ecstatic about that. However, you should know who you're talking about.
Click to expand...
borderline?

 
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.

 
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
A number of his works. He's extremely prolific. If you follow the footnote links, there will be citations.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fennis said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page
Click to expand...
After just a little bit of research into the footnote links I am finding them to either be the works of others or, in the case of footnote 26, it is an outright misrepresentation of his stance on the issue.

Since anyone can write on Wikipedia, it may be a good idea to dig further before assuming the article is correct and quoting it...especially without any indication of where you are quoting from

 
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page
Click to expand...
After just a little bit of research into the footnote links I am finding them to either be the works of others or, in the case of footnote 26, it is an outright misrepresentation of his stance on the issue.

Since anyone can write on Wikipedia, it may be a good idea to dig further before assuming the article is correct and quoting it...especially without any indication of where you are quoting from
Click to expand...
Here's a good start:

An Introduction to Christian Economics

It's a .pdf and may download when you click it.

It's the source for "God has cursed the earth (Gen, 3: 17-19). This is the starting point for all economic analysis."

 
"God's mandated method of execution - public stoning by the witnesses

whose words condemned the criminal - is regarded as perverse even by those few
Christians who still defend the legitimacy of the death penalty. They do not believe
that God requires the trial's hostile witnesses to cast the first stones. But He does:
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward
the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you"
(Deut. 17:7). Like twentieth-century humanists, Christians today regard God's
mandated sanctions as barbaric; in this case, public execution by citizens. Why is this
regarded as barbaric? The critics do not say. They do not think that have to say.
"Everyone can see that such a thing is barbaric!" And such a God."
Click to expand...
From Leviticus: An Economic Commentary by Gary North (also a .pdf), page 336, fn 12.

On page 370, fn.3, he states the following:

In their attempt to establish a dispensational case against capital punishment
for any crime except murder, H. Wayne House and Thomas D. Ice refer to my five point
defense of public stoning as God's specified means of execution
Click to expand...
 
Henry Ford said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page
Click to expand...
After just a little bit of research into the footnote links I am finding them to either be the works of others or, in the case of footnote 26, it is an outright misrepresentation of his stance on the issue.

Since anyone can write on Wikipedia, it may be a good idea to dig further before assuming the article is correct and quoting it...especially without any indication of where you are quoting from
Click to expand...
Here's a good start:

An Introduction to Christian Economics

It's a .pdf and may download when you click it.

It's the source for "God has cursed the earth (Gen, 3: 17-19). This is the starting point for all economic analysis."
Click to expand...
:confused: Will you at least acknowledge that there is no basis for the statement, "North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions." This is completely false.

 
Henry Ford said:
"God's mandated method of execution - public stoning by the witnesses

whose words condemned the criminal - is regarded as perverse even by those few
Christians who still defend the legitimacy of the death penalty. They do not believe
that God requires the trial's hostile witnesses to cast the first stones. But He does:
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward
the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you"
(Deut. 17:7). Like twentieth-century humanists, Christians today regard God's
mandated sanctions as barbaric; in this case, public execution by citizens. Why is this
regarded as barbaric? The critics do not say. They do not think that have to say.
"Everyone can see that such a thing is barbaric!" And such a God."
Click to expand...
From Leviticus: An Economic Commentary by Gary North (also a .pdf), page 336, fn 12.

On page 370, fn.3, he states the following:

In their attempt to establish a dispensational case against capital punishment
for any crime except murder, H. Wayne House and Thomas D. Ice refer to my five point
defense of public stoning as God's specified means of execution
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
All he is saying is that it is God's specified means of execution. Seems pretty factual for anyone who reads the Bible.

 
Henry Ford said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page
Click to expand...
After just a little bit of research into the footnote links I am finding them to either be the works of others or, in the case of footnote 26, it is an outright misrepresentation of his stance on the issue.

Since anyone can write on Wikipedia, it may be a good idea to dig further before assuming the article is correct and quoting it...especially without any indication of where you are quoting from
Click to expand...
Here's a good start:

An Introduction to Christian Economics

It's a .pdf and may download when you click it.

It's the source for "God has cursed the earth (Gen, 3: 17-19). This is the starting point for all economic analysis."
Click to expand...
Right. Hence the name CHRISTIAN Economics. Its entirety is based upon the Bible.

And I'd argue that quoted line is dead on accurate as it relates to a foundation for economic analysis. The point being that money (aka the means for survival and accomplishment) does not grow on trees but can only be earned through some sort of effort from somewhere. Kind of like the saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Life is a grind and someone somewhere has to pay the price for everything.

 
Jayrod said:
Henry Ford said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
Jayrod said:
Fennis said:
North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22][23] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[24] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[25][26] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[27]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[28][29
Click to expand...
What is this from? All of those links are wikipedia pages on the words that are being linked.

Seems a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
wiki page
Click to expand...
After just a little bit of research into the footnote links I am finding them to either be the works of others or, in the case of footnote 26, it is an outright misrepresentation of his stance on the issue.

Since anyone can write on Wikipedia, it may be a good idea to dig further before assuming the article is correct and quoting it...especially without any indication of where you are quoting from
Click to expand...
Here's a good start:

An Introduction to Christian Economics

It's a .pdf and may download when you click it.

It's the source for "God has cursed the earth (Gen, 3: 17-19). This is the starting point for all economic analysis."
Click to expand...
:confused: Will you at least acknowledge that there is no basis for the statement, "North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions." This is completely false.
Click to expand...
I have certainly not seen that quote (other than in other writings) nor have I suggested it came from him.

However, he does believe that abortion is murder, and that public stoning is a proper way of dealing with murder. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that he would support it, nor have I ever seen him support it.

I will also say that at one point he wrote a very passionate plea for people to stop killing abortion doctors after he had been repeatedly written letters by a man who ended up killing an abortion doctor when he received no response.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jayrod said:
Henry Ford said:
"God's mandated method of execution - public stoning by the witnesses

whose words condemned the criminal - is regarded as perverse even by those few
Christians who still defend the legitimacy of the death penalty. They do not believe
that God requires the trial's hostile witnesses to cast the first stones. But He does:
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward
the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you"
(Deut. 17:7). Like twentieth-century humanists, Christians today regard God's
mandated sanctions as barbaric; in this case, public execution by citizens. Why is this
regarded as barbaric? The critics do not say. They do not think that have to say.
"Everyone can see that such a thing is barbaric!" And such a God."
Click to expand...
From Leviticus: An Economic Commentary by Gary North (also a .pdf), page 336, fn 12.

On page 370, fn.3, he states the following:

In their attempt to establish a dispensational case against capital punishment
for any crime except murder, H. Wayne House and Thomas D. Ice refer to my five point
defense of public stoning as God's specified means of execution
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
All he is saying is that it is God's specified means of execution. Seems pretty factual for anyone who reads the Bible.
Click to expand...
Have you read his five point defense of public stoning?

 
Jayrod said:
Right. Hence the name CHRISTIAN Economics. Its entirety is based upon the Bible.


And I'd argue that quoted line is dead on accurate as it relates to a foundation for economic analysis. The point being that money (aka the means for survival and accomplishment) does not grow on trees but can only be earned through some sort of effort from somewhere. Kind of like the saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Life is a grind and someone somewhere has to pay the price for everything.
Click to expand...
Is that what he means? How many other books and passages of Gary North's did you read in order to come up with that interpretation?

 
Henry Ford said:
Jayrod said:
Henry Ford said:
"God's mandated method of execution - public stoning by the witnesses

whose words condemned the criminal - is regarded as perverse even by those few
Christians who still defend the legitimacy of the death penalty. They do not believe
that God requires the trial's hostile witnesses to cast the first stones. But He does:
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward
the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you"
(Deut. 17:7). Like twentieth-century humanists, Christians today regard God's
mandated sanctions as barbaric; in this case, public execution by citizens. Why is this
regarded as barbaric? The critics do not say. They do not think that have to say.
"Everyone can see that such a thing is barbaric!" And such a God."
Click to expand...
From Leviticus: An Economic Commentary by Gary North (also a .pdf), page 336, fn 12.

On page 370, fn.3, he states the following:

In their attempt to establish a dispensational case against capital punishment
for any crime except murder, H. Wayne House and Thomas D. Ice refer to my five point
defense of public stoning as God's specified means of execution
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
All he is saying is that it is God's specified means of execution. Seems pretty factual for anyone who reads the Bible.
Click to expand...
Have you read his five point defense of public stoning?
Click to expand...
I haven't yet and I've spent 5 minutes trying to find it with no luck. Anyone have a link?

 
I'll also say this - Gary North is obviously a smart guy, because the background in his family is insane. Like, Holocaust denial, believing slave owners were benevolent, opposing interracial marriage insane. And he's significantly further left than his father-in-law. There's a legitimate possibility that some of those quotes attributed to him are actual from his father-in-law, and a legitimate chance that someone read him a transcript of one of his father-in-law's statements and asked if he agreed with the guy and he said "uh, sure." But Rushdoony absolutely says that God requires that we institute a civil legal system that stones people to death for homosexuality.

 
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