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Matt Waldman: 75% chance Bridgwater falls due to racism (2 Viewers)

PatsWillWin

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Anyone catch the most recent Audible? I am normally a big fan, one of my favorite podcasts (and I listen to just about everything out there). That includes specifically being a big fan of Bloom, Cecil, Jene, and Matt. That's why I was so surprised when it went completely off the rails when Bridgewater came up.

Waldman went on this pretty substantial rant about how Bridgewater is going to drop outside the top 10 because of the "indirect racism" by NFL owners and GM's, and how, because he's a black man, they don't want him to be the "corporate face" of their franchise. He even went so far as to put this out on the media, saying that the writing about his pro day, and about the people he surrounds himself, is basically all code for more racism.

I'm not stupid, I know racism exists, and that includes inside some NFL teams. But this sounded like a rant from 20 years ago.

Cam, Russell, Vince Young, all #1 overall picks. RGIII was #2. EJ Manuel in the teens. Jason Campbell was a late 1st rounder. I know Bridgewater is not the physical specimen that some of these guys are, but does that mean owners are only racis against black guys with smallish builds?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "offended" or anything. I just thought it was crazy, largely irrelevant, and worst of all, boring. This was after they all spent 20 minutes snickering about how stupid people are for caring about pro days and the combine.

Anyway, flame on.

 
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I haven't seen what Matt actually said, but I think it's been pretty well established for awhile now that color is irrelevant to the NFL if the player has the ability, including drafting at the QB position. If he did say that, he's simply wrong.

 
Yeah so Vick, Jamarcus, Cam, RGIII all go in the top 2, but it's racism if Bridgewater falls? The top two QBs taken last year were black.

That just seems like a blanket statement with no factual backing behind it. Maybe he falls because he's a twig and by all reports hasn't been that impressive in workouts? I think it's funny that in a league which is predominantly African-American, a coach will drop a QB because of it? Coaches care about one thing - winning. If they didn't, second chances wouldn't be handed out so regularly for talented but tainted athletes.

 
If this is true, shame on Waldman as that suggestion has been proven incorrect time after time.

I am getting so tired of people trying to make a name for themselves by bringing Race into the equation. This is 2014. Get over it already. I am going to hold judgement until I read/hear what was said. However, if this is true I will lose All respect for Waldman.

 
I think there's a divide here between ATH QB taken early (Vick, RG3, Vince, Cam) and mostly passing QB.

Plenty of white QB fall (e.g., for being thin or an inch shorter than they want) so I wouldn't necessarily ascribe anything to racism at this point.

Yes, I'm sure Shad Khan would pass on Bridgewater because he wasn't a WASP.
Pretty sure there are Asians and South Asians with racists views towards black people.

 
I think there's a divide here between ATH QB taken early (Vick, RG3, Vince, Cam) and mostly passing QB.

Plenty of white QB fall (e.g., for being thin or an inch shorter than they want) so I wouldn't necessarily ascribe anything to racism at this point.

Yes, I'm sure Shad Khan would pass on Bridgewater because he wasn't a WASP.
Pretty sure there are Asians and South Asians with racists views towards black people.
Leftwich was taken in the top 10 and I don't think anyone took Jamarcus as an athletic QB. Jason Campbell isn't an athletic QB either.

 
I think there's a divide here between ATH QB taken early (Vick, RG3, Vince, Cam) and mostly passing QB.

Plenty of white QB fall (e.g., for being thin or an inch shorter than they want) so I wouldn't necessarily ascribe anything to racism at this point.

Yes, I'm sure Shad Khan would pass on Bridgewater because he wasn't a WASP.
Pretty sure there are Asians and South Asians with racists views towards black people.
By the way, if you want to make that argument, put it on the college coaches. Name some talented black pocket passers that got passed over.

 
I don't want anyone to think I have an agenda. Quite the opposite, as I said in the OP, I've been a big fan of Matt. I respect and usually buy the RSP and respect his contributions to the charity he sends a portion of his income too.

It's for that reason that I put myself through the pain of listening to the rant again and typing some of it now. The bolded parts are what stuck out to me, but you can judge for yourself.

Question was is Matt buying or selling the idea that Bridgewater could drop to #26 overall?

Oh I’m buying it because there are 32 different organizations and some are run like a bad pizza parlor and some are ran like a wonderful fortune 500 company that wins all sorts of awards. But unfortunately there’s still a mentality that when you look at the corporate nature at how they conduct things, and I say “try” corporate nature because some of them probably wouldn’t know their way in or out of a boardroom. But when it comes to that type of, and when I talk about this while I probably look like I’m doing the janitorial work right now, but see when it comes down to how they hire people and how they interview and when they go about this type of process, if you have any experience out in the world with how people hire, fire, and perceive folks that they have as candidates, then you know why Teddy Bridgewater is not going to be in the top 10...or at least there’s probably a 75% chance that it’s not going to happen and that he is going to drop to 26 because he does not look like the figurehead of an organization and I know it’s 2014, but unfortunately some of these teams still, when it comes to a player like that, they’re going to look at him and it’s still going to be 1970, 1980 all over again.

Some of these teams are gonna find ways to “nitpick” that. And I know that some people are going to be upset with this when I say it but I can’t stand listening to it anymore - it’s the fact that he’s black. It’s the fact that he’s a black-skinned black man is that he is someone that they do not want to look at it that way. Now some of them, the way I say this, don’t get me wrong, is I don’t think it’s blatant racism, I think what it is, is that it’s a form of not even realizing that they’re doing it, you know they’re finding ways to nitpick the way that he is.

They’re trying to nitpick that he’s not big enough, or maybe the arm’s not quite strong enough, but I think that the problem is that there’s a level of discomfort, whether it’s culturally, whether it’s race, whether it has something to do with who he is, that in the same way that people had cultural discomfort with Geno Smith because he does not look and sound like the guy that you would have speaking at a country club breakfast, you know, lunch and, you know, and I think that’s what they want is they want someone, the same way that Carolina’s owner asked Cam Newton if he had any tattoos because he wasn’t gnna draft anyone with tattoos. I mean how backwards is that? Now that’s his right, but to me that’s backwards.

You know, you have, it’s different being the head of an organization for business, and whether you need to dress a certain way and have a certain type of look and being someone who is a quarterback of a football team. It’s a, those are two very different cultures, but the owners and the GM’s, mostly the owners I think, are very keen on having this type of PR look because that sells tickets, that gets sponsorships, that helps with the advertising, and they wanna make sure that their money, that they’re getting good investment, in terms of community and everything else, and I think Bridgewater to them is something that they fear the idea of that not going over well. Maybe they’re not racist, but I think it’s a form of indirect racism that we’re going to see play out.

And I know a lot of people are going to be upset with that idea, but I think that’s really what it goes down to because I wouldn’t even dignify, the player that he reminds me of, and I’ve written in the RSP and certainly it’s not from the standpoint of championships and accomplishments, but in terms of his feet, his ability to find, you know, players, tight windows, play hurt, stretch the field, making play calls, he reminds me of Joe Montana. Some people are going to find that as going overboad, but when your an assistant coach (some story about Bridgewater’s coach, and how Bridgewater mastered the playbook, and when they asked the assistant coach abut him, he cried or something). You don’t see that very often, so to me, the idea, this whole thing is a game, and it’s really just how do we nitpick him because we want him to be a little more grateful for having this opportunity, and he didn’t show up to the combine, we want him to go with a certain agent, but he didn’t pick the right agent, possibly. You know, he wanted, you know, we had a workout where he, you know, it was scripted, and we’re gonna nitpick that a little bit too. Meanwhile Derek Carr threw up before his workout, I know that he had a stomach bug, but, you know, I’m sure that if that were Teddy Bridgewater that somebody would be going “Oh, see, he’s nervous. He was nervous. He can’t handle the pressure, he can’t handle the pressure of a scripted workout.” But with Derek Carr, we’re not going to question the fact that he had a stomach bug.
Bloom then told some story about some draft reporter saying he heard that Bridgewater that he didn’t do well in interviews, and isn’t surrounding himself with the right people (someone named Eric). The implication here too was that Bridgewater is being “nitpicked,” as Waldman would call it, which is shorthand for racism. “I think the subtext is there,” Bloom said. So he’s on board too.

Back to Waldman:

When it comes to perception, when it comes to looks and all these different types of facets, so when they say they didn’t interview well, that’s fine. I had an agent talk about that he didn’t, or that certain players at the combine, were really horrible to deal with and I pressed him about it and asked what was wrong with them, and the things were “Weeeelll, he asked to do a re-take when the production crew was filming something. Or he asked because he didn’t like how he sounded and they just felt like he was being difficult.” You know, he can’t be a collaborator, just be grateful that you’re here and just shut up and be the commodity that you are. And to me, that’s just ridiculous, and to me I think that’s probably why, and if you don’t talk with the perfect “Queen’s English” and if you don’t look like someone who came from England as well, I think that there’s sometimes still a little bit of innate, of a latent problem there, whether it’s conscious or not.
 
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I read Waldman's articles before every draft season, especially about RBs, so a big fan here.

However it's important that this was a podcast, people say stuff on the radio and tv that they would never write.

So I'd be really surprised if he would actually be willing to put this in an article. I doubt it because it is completely unverifiable in any kind of draft analysis. You can look at past statistical data for teams' weaknesses showing how they might draft, you can look at their roster and personnel and see where they need to draft position wise, you can look at their offensive and defensive systems and see who would be a fit, but you absolutely cannot read into some GM's or owner's mind and say they what they are thinking on a team by team basis, like you would do any other kind of draft analysis. Can't be done. Even if he wanted to state it in writing it's indefensible anyway, groundless.

[Edited]

 
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Bloom then told some story about some draft reporter saying he heard that Bridgewater that he didn’t do well in interviews, and isn’t surrounding himself with the right people (someone named Eric). The implication here too was that Bridgewater is being “nitpicked,” as Waldman would call it, which is shorthand for racism. “I think the subtext is there,” Bloom said. So he’s on board too.
Again, total respect to Mr. Bloom ( :tebow: ) but If "Eric" is who the reporter heard this from how do we know "Eric" is not someone in Bridgewater's camp or friends with such who is trying to back door influence the teams into fearing they will be labeled negatively for passing on Bridgewater? This is a two way street. Or is "Eric" the "wrong people" around Bridgewater here? It's not clear, but if that's the case then yeah intermediaries who interfere in the player-team relationship can pose a real problem. Either way this is pretty vague and poor grounds for all this.

Also, Aaron Rodgers dropped to No. 28 - so what happened there? Same thing?

 
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Yeah so Vick, Jamarcus, Cam, RGIII all go in the top 2, but it's racism if Bridgewater falls? The top two QBs taken last year were black.

That just seems like a blanket statement with no factual backing behind it. Maybe he falls because he's a twig and by all reports hasn't been that impressive in workouts? I think it's funny that in a league which is predominantly African-American, a coach will drop a QB because of it? Coaches care about one thing - winning. If they didn't, second chances wouldn't be handed out so regularly for talented but tainted athletes.
We know that's not true. I wouldn't say coaches care about one thing, because that's kind of a silly statement. That said, if we think coaches care about only one thing, it's job security. As an example, take a look at any of the thousands of 4th down decisions we see every year.

 
I read Waldman's articles before every draft season, especially about RBs, so a big fan here.

However it's important that this was a podcast, people say stuff on the radio and tv that they would never write.

So I'd be really surprised if he would actually be willing to put this in an article. I doubt it because it is completely unverifiable in any kind of draft analysis. You can look at past statistical data for teams' weaknesses showing how they might draft, you can look at their roster and personnel and see where they need to draft position wise, you can look at their offensive and defensive systems and see who would be a fit, but you absolutely cannot read into some GM's or owner's mind and say they what they are thinking on a team by team basis, like you would do any other kind of draft analysis. Can't be done. Even if he wanted to state it in writing it's indefensible anyway, groundless.
Why wouldn't he be willing to put it in writing?

It's his speculative opinion and a social commentary. You can argue about whether he's "right" or "wrong", but he's a highly intelligent man, who is entitled to express his beliefs in a respectful and measured way.

 
Wow, just wow. The NFL doesn't care if someone is a green skinned Satan worshipper, provided he can spin a football downfield.

ETA: Hell, they really don't care if someone is a wife beating, coke dealing rapist. As long as they're not smoking weed, that is.

 
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I read Waldman's articles before every draft season, especially about RBs, so a big fan here.

However it's important that this was a podcast, people say stuff on the radio and tv that they would never write.

So I'd be really surprised if he would actually be willing to put this in an article. I doubt it because it is completely unverifiable in any kind of draft analysis. You can look at past statistical data for teams' weaknesses showing how they might draft, you can look at their roster and personnel and see where they need to draft position wise, you can look at their offensive and defensive systems and see who would be a fit, but you absolutely cannot read into some GM's or owner's mind and say they what they are thinking on a team by team basis, like you would do any other kind of draft analysis. Can't be done. Even if he wanted to state it in writing it's indefensible anyway, groundless.
Why wouldn't he be willing to put it in writing?

It's his speculative opinion and a social commentary. You can argue about whether he's "right" or "wrong", but he's a highly intelligent man, who is entitled to express his beliefs in a respectful and measured way.
Hey I love the guy as a writer and on every level from a reader standpoint, I am a fan. I subscribe, his articles may have driven me to this site way back when.

I say this because how do you break this down, draft wise, like we do everything else (need/tendencies)?:

- Houston - so they pass but they would take Clowney and he becomes the face of the franchise? I guess Bortles could be the pick, but what is the basis for passing on Bridgewater and is it entirely non-football related? He's that good?

- St. Louis - doesn't need a QB

- Jax - drafted Leftwich back when, now is Khan somehow different in race perception, how do we know this?

- Cle - started Jason Campbell last year, they seem unperturbed by a black QB

- Oak - drafted Jamarcus Russell, now they've changed somehow? Also they have a black GM, does he have this perception bias?

- Atl - they have Ryan, no need

- Was - just picked Griffin

- Buf - just picked a black QB in the 1st round, has a black GM to boot

- NYJ - already have a black QB, no need plus obviously glad to have him as "the face"

Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?

 
Agree with the OP, CDL and others in here.

I know that it's only one example, but when Cam was coming out, the Carolina brass did not hesitate to say that Cam was going #1, and he scoffed at those that criticized Cam.

 
Absurd if that comes into play. Doug Williams had one of the greatest performances in SB history. That should have wiped out any question about race mattering at the QB spot almost 30 years ago.

 
I haven't seen what Matt actually said, but I think it's been pretty well established for awhile now that color is irrelevant to the NFL if the player has the ability, including drafting at the QB position. If he did say that, he's simply wrong.
I'm not so sure.

Manuel and Bortles are very similar yet Manuel fell to #16 last year and Bortles is being touted as the #1 pick.

 
Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?
"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.

 
Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?
"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.
I don't think that anyone here doubts that racism still exists, but that wasn't the OP's point at all.

 
It's possible Bridgewater is hurt by Geno Smith's rookie season. After spending months as the presumptive top pick, Smith kept sliding in mock drafts, then in the real one, and then he had a pretty rough rookie year. If scouts find comparisons between the two -- and I think they are there, besides race -- that could drop wind up dropping Bridgewater. Had Geno had a rookie of the year type season, I think Bridgewater's status would be locked as a top-5 pick, although I recognize that I have no evidence to support that claim.

 
I've been arguing for a long time that there's a greater than 75% chance he falls because he's too damn skinny (which tends to affect arm strength aside from being bad on it's own) and he takes way too many sacks for a guy who operates in the pocket most of the time (which is doubly bad for ridiculously skinny QBs).

 
It's possible Bridgewater is hurt by Geno Smith's rookie season. After spending months as the presumptive top pick, Smith kept sliding in mock drafts, then in the real one, and then he had a pretty rough rookie year. If scouts find comparisons between the two -- and I think they are there, besides race -- that could drop wind up dropping Bridgewater. Had Geno had a rookie of the year type season, I think Bridgewater's status would be locked as a top-5 pick, although I recognize that I have no evidence to support that claim.
I don't see any connection between Geno and Bridgewater.

The issues around Geno were 1) how much is due to supporting cast, 2) he lost confidence at the end of his senior year, 3) shotgun QB. Teddy has none of those issues. He elevated his supporting cast. He ran a pro style. Always displayed confidence IMO.

Geno's strengths were good size, good release/mechanics. Teddy doesn't have those strengths. His size is in question. His mechanics are in question.

Geno is Alex Smith and Teddy is Matt Ryan. There's not much similar about them, I think.

 
The opposite is true in my flag football league, the black guys get picked early every time. They are really fast though

 
I waited till I listed to the podcast before commenting.

I'll give Waldman a pass because he's earned it IMHO but the Browns have just cut both QB Brandon Weeden and QB Jason Cambell leaving only QB Brian Hoyer coming off ACL surger and trick-shot artist QB Alex Haney.

The Browns hold the 4th pick.

This is the Browns GM Ray Farmer: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/01/23/a0/d5/farmer13-0731R.jpg

Ray was hired after Browns owner Jimmy Haslam fired these two guys:

Joe Banner: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/Browns/joe-banner-.jpg

Michael Lombardi: http://nflfilms.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/micahel-lombardi.jpg

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

 
While I disagree with the rant, I'm reminded of a Yahoo article a few years back where a GM anonymously said they wouldn't draft Andy Dalton because there had never been a successful red head qb before...

 
While I disagree with the rant, I'm reminded of a Yahoo article a few years back where a GM anonymously said they wouldn't draft Andy Dalton because there had never been a successful red head qb before...
But that's different. Gingers are creepy.

 
i didnt listen to the podcast, but im curious how one would come to '75%' chance of falling due to racism? is there a racism coefficient that numerically explains or validates this?

 
FWIW... my best comps for Bridgewater are Kevin Kolb, Geno Smith and Alex Smith -- though I'm not really sure what order since none of them are a clean match.

Alex Smith eventually panned out (though he played for a horrible horrible team for a few years so maybe it could have come about earlier in a better situation), but even as a proven pro Alex Smith was only worth two 2nds.

No way I'd draft Bridgewater early. And racism has nothing to do with it.

 
Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?
"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.
I just seems like a really, really odd point to make when an African American QB has been drafted in the top two in 2 of the last 3 years.

 
Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?
"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.
I just seems like a really, really odd point to make when an African American QB has been drafted in the top two in 2 of the last 3 years.
I think it's more than black QB's get nitpicked more than white QB's. Manuel last year vs. Bortles this year for example.

 
I haven't seen what Matt actually said, but I think it's been pretty well established for awhile now that color is irrelevant to the NFL if the player has the ability, including drafting at the QB position. If he did say that, he's simply wrong.
I'm not so sure.

Manuel and Bortles are very similar yet Manuel fell to #16 last year and Bortles is being touted as the #1 pick.
I completely disagree. Manuel didn't "fall" to #16, he was waaay over-drafted at #16. Most draft sources had him projected as a 3rd round pick.

 
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I haven't seen what Matt actually said, but I think it's been pretty well established for awhile now that color is irrelevant to the NFL if the player has the ability, including drafting at the QB position. If he did say that, he's simply wrong.
I'm not so sure.

Manuel and Bortles are very similar yet Manuel fell to #16 last year and Bortles is being touted as the #1 pick.
I completely disagree. Manuel didn't "fall" to #16, he was waaay over-drafted at #16. Most draft sources had him projected as a 3rd round pick.
Then Bortles should be projected as a 3rd round pick. Explain to me what makes Bortles that much better than Manuel.

 
I haven't seen what Matt actually said, but I think it's been pretty well established for awhile now that color is irrelevant to the NFL if the player has the ability, including drafting at the QB position. If he did say that, he's simply wrong.
I'm not so sure.

Manuel and Bortles are very similar yet Manuel fell to #16 last year and Bortles is being touted as the #1 pick.
I completely disagree. Manuel didn't "fall" to #16, he was waaay over-drafted at #16. Most draft sources had him projected as a 3rd round pick.
Then Bortles should be projected as a 3rd round pick. Explain to me what makes Bortles that much better than Manuel.
I don't do draft evaluation, I leave that to the experts who get paid 6 figures to do that.

 
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Sadly, in the progressive times in which we live in, facts are often irrelevant; truth is based on how someone feels and if Matt feels it is racism then it is racism.

 

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