What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

If Raiders draft Watkins do you pass him at 1.1 in a Dynasty? (1 Viewer)

Do you draft Watkins 1.1 if drafted by the Raiders in dynasty?

  • Yes, no matter who else falls to what team!

    Votes: 87 47.5%
  • No, they don't call it the black hole for nothing!

    Votes: 32 17.5%
  • Maybe, depends who else goes where

    Votes: 64 35.0%

  • Total voters
    183

Archer

Footballguy
Just wanted to create a poll and see how you sharks would feel about the possibility of Watkins going to Oakland.

 
For me, it would depend on where Evans goes. If Evans goes to a great spot, I might take him over Watkins in Oakland.

 
For me, it would depend on where Evans goes. If Evans goes to a great spot, I might take him over Watkins in Oakland.
At 1st I was thinking the same think, but what team would qualify? Det signed Tate; I was thinking NO but they spread the ball around a lot, Car needs a WR1 but their a running team 1st.

So after thinking about it, I would still take Watkin no matter where he goes.

 
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.

 
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
Great post and this is exactly what I meant. Also, Watkins didn't blow up the combine. If you're going to be below 6'2, you better be a stud athlete for me to consider you a WR1. Watkins is a good athlete...big difference.

 
interesting stat. 30%?

is that correct?
Yea, the numbers were compiled by Greg Peshek of rotoworld. Really good stuff, I've been checking his numbers for a couple years now

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
well, that also means hes pretty good w/ the ball in his hands

 
If the Jackson rumors are true, then Watkins wont be going to Oakland.
I would not assume that to be true. If Watkins is on the board at pick 5 and he's McKenzie's BPA he's going to take him if he doesn't get an attractive trade offer to move down the board. Supposing Desean lands in Oakland, Raiders aren't going to pass on BPA of thier draft board just because they have a glut of WR's. They will draft Watkins and look to make a draft day 2 or day 3 trade of Denarius Moore. This draft is all about McKenzie's flexibility and being true to his board.

 
interesting stat. 30%?

is that correct?
Yea, the numbers were compiled by Greg Peshek of rotoworld. Really good stuff, I've been checking his numbers for a couple years now

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
well, that also means hes pretty good w/ the ball in his hands
I would agree with that assessment, but how often is that the top thing you say about an elite receiver in fantasy? That's more my point. And I'm not saying that's the first thing you think of with Watkins, because it probably isn't. But it's probably in the top 3-5 things you'd say he does well. And in a very simple context, how often are you havin drinks with your buddies and discussing how good Calvin, Dez, or Julio are with the ball in their hands? Id' imagine you're spending more time talking about how big and fast they are, how high they jump, and their ball skills. That's more the overall idea.

 
interesting stat. 30%?

is that correct?
Yea, the numbers were compiled by Greg Peshek of rotoworld. Really good stuff, I've been checking his numbers for a couple years now

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
well, that also means hes pretty good w/ the ball in his hands
In college, it's not like we're talking about Patterson with the ball in his hands. Watkins isn't a speed guy, he isn't a size guy, he isn't an elusive guy. Plus he has a drug charge under his record. Give me the guy that's 4 inches taller and has a huge reach, but only .1 slower...Mike Evans looks like king kong running routes and pushing DBs around.

 
interesting stat. 30%?

is that correct?
Yea, the numbers were compiled by Greg Peshek of rotoworld. Really good stuff, I've been checking his numbers for a couple years now

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
well, that also means hes pretty good w/ the ball in his hands
In college, it's not like we're talking about Patterson with the ball in his hands. Watkins isn't a speed guy, he isn't a size guy, he isn't an elusive guy. Plus he has a drug charge under his record. Give me the guy that's 4 inches taller and has a huge reach, but only .1 slower...Mike Evans looks like king kong running routes and pushing DBs around.
Evans is a beast on go routes it's true. But he doesn't look particularly elusive or quick in the first 5 to 10 yards of space. He has a ways to go developing his route tree to anything more than a Torrey Smith type route tree, which ironically is who Sammy Watkins has compared himself to. Apparently, Watkins is a very humble guy. Watkins plays bigger than his measured size. Plays like he's 2 or 3 inches taller and extremely quick and elusive out of breaks. The Andre Johnson comparisons are not far off from reality. There really is no fair comparison to a guy with a limited skillset like Mike Evans. Watkins is on a tier to himself. I really like Evans too, but I could see Lee or Cooks having a better overall career than Evans depending on what team they land on. Watkins is bust proof and will be a stud with the Raiders or any team you would like to choose.

 
You don't over think this, you take Watkins. He's about as bust proof as it gets. He not only has a high ceiling, he has a high floor as well.

 
interesting stat. 30%?

is that correct?
Yea, the numbers were compiled by Greg Peshek of rotoworld. Really good stuff, I've been checking his numbers for a couple years now

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
Mike Evans is my current 1.1, so no because I think Watkins is overrated.
This, and I don't want people to misunderstand what I (and I'd imagine others) mean by overrated. Overrated does not mean that I think Watkins is bad. But some of the comps I've heard for Watkins are absurd: Andre Johnson? Julio? Watkins simply does not have the body type to be either of these players. He's giving up 2 inches and 10-20 pounds to each, which may not seem like a lot, but it is in the NFL. Watkins profiles more as a plus version of Torrey Smith, one that can run all the routes and catch the ball better. He is probably the safest WR in the draft, and should have a very good career. But if we're talking about fantasy, Evans has better potential to be a top level WR1 due to his body type and athleticism. And if we're talking about the 1.01, that's the kind of potential I'm mining for, even if it comes with a bigger risk. Also, lets not forget that Watkins is a guy who caught over 57% of his passes behind or at the line of scrimmage, and only 30% past 5 yards.
well, that also means hes pretty good w/ the ball in his hands
In college, it's not like we're talking about Patterson with the ball in his hands. Watkins isn't a speed guy, he isn't a size guy, he isn't an elusive guy. Plus he has a drug charge under his record. Give me the guy that's 4 inches taller and has a huge reach, but only .1 slower...Mike Evans looks like king kong running routes and pushing DBs around.
Evans is a beast on go routes it's true. But he doesn't look particularly elusive or quick in the first 5 to 10 yards of space. He has a ways to go developing his route tree to anything more than a Torrey Smith type route tree, which ironically is who Sammy Watkins has compared himself to. Apparently, Watkins is a very humble guy. Watkins plays bigger than his measured size. Plays like he's 2 or 3 inches taller and extremely quick and elusive out of breaks. The Andre Johnson comparisons are not far off from reality. There really is no fair comparison to a guy with a limited skillset like Mike Evans. Watkins is on a tier to himself. I really like Evans too, but I could see Lee or Cooks having a better overall career than Evans depending on what team they land on. Watkins is bust proof and will be a stud with the Raiders or any team you would like to choose.
Evans could easily be a Brandon Marshall/Alshon Jeffery type. With the new NFL rules...they help the bigger WRs more...and the bigger WRs score more in FF. I agree Evans isnt quick and needs help on his route tree. But he has crazy reach and good hands.

Watkins isn't close to Andre Johnson.

Johnson: 6'3 230 4.41 4.10 Short shuttle 41 vertical 11'0 broad jump

Watkins: 6'1 211 4.43 4.34 short shuttle 34 vertical 10'6 broad jump

Watkins isn't even close to the athlete of Andre Johnson/Julio Jones and he doesn't have the WR skills of AJ Green. That's why I would rather gamble on Mike Evans becoming a WR1, instead of having Sammy Watkins as a WR2/3 type.

 
How many of you guys watched Evans vs Duke in the first half of their bowl game this year? I saw a player that was VERY immature, and barely in control of his emotions. Does that worry anyone else? Not saying he's not a great prospect, but but with all the talk about one pot charge on Watkins a few years ago, I wonder why no one is discussing this, and who really has the more worrisome personality?

 
If you feel Watkins is the best player in this draft then there is no reason you should down grade him for landing in Oak. 1st, he could easily produce there despite the challenges. We don't know. 2nd, this time next year we could be talking about Oak drafting Winston or getting some other big name at QB and the dynamic is totally changed.

 
great point Jurb26. I was just curious to see what the consensus was around here. Both Evans and Watkins appear to have bright futures ahead of them, that's for sure.

 
I'm perplexed as to how so many people could rank Evans over Watkins. Granted, where they land in the draft will have huge implications for their future prospects, but to rank Evans over Watkins on strictly talent is mind blowing.

 
If I loved Watkins, going to the Raiders wouldn't stop me from taking him. They could very well end up with a stud QB prospect next year if they end up being bad enough to truly warrant this thread.

 
I'm perplexed as to how so many people could rank Evans over Watkins. Granted, where they land in the draft will have huge implications for their future prospects, but to rank Evans over Watkins on strictly talent is mind blowing.
I like Evans and would gladly take him at 2 or 3, but if I got the #2 and the guy in front takes Evans I will wet my pants

 
I dont see watkins as close to calvin, green, or dez and would probably take the top rb unless watkins lands in a good spot.

 
I'm perplexed as to how so many people could rank Evans over Watkins. Granted, where they land in the draft will have huge implications for their future prospects, but to rank Evans over Watkins on strictly talent is mind blowing.
WRs with his measureables have a harder time translating to being a FF WR1. 6'1(just below) runs a 4.43 or worse, 34 vertical or worse, and isn't uber quick(short shuttle/3 cone). I saw all of this on film, but the combine just reaffirmed it for me(so don't do there).

Big WRs(6'2 +): Calvin, Julio, AJ Green, Fitz, Keenan Allen, Gordon, Marshall, Jeffery, Decker, Andre, Jordy, Vjax, Floyd, Colston, Bowe, Patterson, Bowe, Stevie J

Uber Quick or speed WRs: Antonio Brown, Welker, Cobb, Desean, TY Hilton, Edelman, Cruz, Wallace

WRs like Watkins: Garcon, Kendall Wright, Torrey Smith, Jennings, Steve Smith, Nicks, Roddy

The WRs like Watkins have to get a lot of targets, be technicians and most of the time be aligned with a good to great QB. The big WRs can get by without the best routes and/or QBs...that's why I go with Evans.

 
OAK? Yes, he would drop slightly for me if he was drafted by them. Schaub is mediocre at best, and who's their backup...? Ooof...

 
I'm perplexed as to how so many people could rank Evans over Watkins. Granted, where they land in the draft will have huge implications for their future prospects, but to rank Evans over Watkins on strictly talent is mind blowing.
WRs with his measureables have a harder time translating to being a FF WR1. 6'1(just below) runs a 4.43 or worse, 34 vertical or worse, and isn't uber quick(short shuttle/3 cone). I saw all of this on film, but the combine just reaffirmed it for me(so don't do there).

Big WRs(6'2 +): Calvin, Julio, AJ Green, Fitz, Keenan Allen, Gordon, Marshall, Jeffery, Decker, Andre, Jordy, Vjax, Floyd, Colston, Bowe, Patterson, Bowe, Stevie J

Uber Quick or speed WRs: Antonio Brown, Welker, Cobb, Desean, TY Hilton, Edelman, Cruz, Wallace

WRs like Watkins: Garcon, Kendall Wright, Torrey Smith, Jennings, Steve Smith, Nicks, Roddy

The WRs like Watkins have to get a lot of targets, be technicians and most of the time be aligned with a good to great QB. The big WRs can get by without the best routes and/or QBs...that's why I go with Evans.
This guy gets "it"
 
In a 0.5/1/1.5 RB/WR/TE, would anyone take Ebron (given a good landing spot) over Watkins at 1.1?

 
Watkins all day regardless of where he goes. Traded for 1.01 and where he goes will only influence just how excited I am for his immediate production. Situations change yearly so I wouldn't freak out if he goes to Oakland. He is clearly the cream of the crop at WR in my opinion and I won't pass on his talent. No sir.

 
If a midget wr with average speed that can't jump is clearly the cream of the crop this year it must not be "that" great of a draft class.......

 
I would still take him at 1, but I would take many more trades for that pick that I would have previously rejected.

 
In a 0.5/1/1.5 RB/WR/TE, would anyone take Ebron (given a good landing spot) over Watkins at 1.1?
If Watkins goes to Oaklnad and Ebron went to some incredible landing spot, probably still take WAtkins, but would definitely see if the guy at pick #2 would give something good to swap

 
I'm perplexed as to how so many people could rank Evans over Watkins. Granted, where they land in the draft will have huge implications for their future prospects, but to rank Evans over Watkins on strictly talent is mind blowing.
i would take Watkins but it's not crazy for someone to gamble on Evans upside. He's raw, 20 years old, and has prototypical size with the chance to enter elite territory. So does Watkins, but Evans size and redzone potential is enticing.

 
If a midget wr with average speed that can't jump is clearly the cream of the crop this year it must not be "that" great of a draft class.......
Ever watched him play?
Yeah he did slightly worse than DeAndre Hopkins with the same QB running the same offense. Oddly enough Hopkins projects as a strong "#2 wr" in the nfl and Watkins projects as cross between AJ Green and Percy Harvin. Doesn't make a hole lot of sense to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If a midget wr with average speed that can't jump is clearly the cream of the crop this year it must not be "that" great of a draft class.......
Ever watched him play?
Yeah he did slightly worse than DeAndre Hopkins with the same QB running the same offense. Oddly enough Hopkins projects as a strong "#2 wr" in the nfl and Watkins projects as cross between AJ Green and Percy Harvin. Doesn't make a hole lot of sense to me.
Eh I don't think it's nearly that simple. One could argue that perhaps Watkins' presence greatly contributed to Hopkins' big season that he had at Clemson. Have to remember that the year before that Sammy emerged as one of the top receivers in the country as just a freshman. Now I'll admit I saw very little of Clemson during Sammy's sophomore year but it was by far his least productive season and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of it had to do with teams gameplanning around stopping Watkins, which opened the door for Deandre to take off.

Even if I'm wrong about that, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people, regardless of stats, would agree that Watkins is/was the more talented of the two coming out of college. Just seems to me that you just flat out don't like Watkins for whatever reason. Just make sure those reasons have something to do with what he does on the field and not just some number on a piece of paper.

 
In a 0.5/1/1.5 RB/WR/TE, would anyone take Ebron (given a good landing spot) over Watkins at 1.1?
Depends on lineup rules. In a couple of my leagues we can only start 1 TE, so Ebron probably falls out of the top 6. If three TEs could start plus the enhanced scoring, I'd have to strongly consider him at #1.

IMO, that's the fun part of this year's class, there will be a larger variance at the top of rookie drafts than most years. Last year was similar.

 
There's nothing written into divine law or the laws of nature that says that any franchise--including Oakland--will suck forever. Obviously there are structural barriers especially related to ownership and the front office and Oakland and, I think Cleveland, are the 2 franchises in range for Watkins that worry me the most here (and I still think Cleveland is underappreciated as a potentially non-ideal landing spot for Watkins given a combination of dysfunction and quality targets already on offense). So, I'd take Watkins 1.1 no matter where he goes; short term thinking will kill you in dynasty.

As for the Watkins/Evans debate I also think the two are relatively close, and, for that matter it wouldn't surprise me if somebody from that second tier (especially Cooks, Lee or Beckham) is right there competing with these guys for dynasty value after their rookie seasons. But I disagree with evaluations based almost solely on height as the most important prototype variable. The elite dynasty WRs being mentioned are all tall, but that doesn't mean Evans projects better than Watkins; Evans is a lot less agile/fluid and has lesser acceleration/short area quickness than the guys in the current elite tier of dynasty WRs. I think if Evans becomes successful--and I expect that he will--it'll be because he becomes a top jump ball/contested throw receiver. In a way the current top 5 dynasty WRs are a lousy comparative basis for either guy. Evans is tall and fast but otherwise shares very little with guys like Calvin//Green/Julio/Bryant/Thomas; if forced to name a comp, I I think he'll need to be more like Fitzgerald in the limited sense of winning contested balls with elite hands/positioning/body control. Watkins is shorter than these guys (though only an inch shorter than Bryant, and way ahead of him development-wise at this stage in their careers); his comps are really tough, as he's stockier and meaner than a lot of guys with his height/weight, more of a technician than he's given credit for, and his catch radius exceeds his height.

 
Just a little list of "normal" size WRs who have had success in the NFL.

Antonio Brown

Garcon

Stevie Johnson

Reggie Wayne

Nate Washington

Keenan Allen

Victor Cruz

Golden Tate

Jordy Nelson (pretty much all the Packer WRs)

Greg Jennings

Jerricho Cotchery

Michael Crabtree

 
He's being touted as the next mega - elite wr dude. Not the next Stevie Johnson.
besides one thread that said hes the next Andre Johnson (which was stupid) I haven't seen any articles saying hes the next Megatron. 2 completely different styles.

I will admit, normanlly WRs his "size" are not projected in the top 10 (Crabtree maybe his best comparision) but don't let that fool you... hes being projected over the giants for a reason. And I pointed out above that 6" nothing / 200 pds can be effective WR1s.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
He's being touted as the next mega - elite wr dude. Not the next Stevie Johnson.
He's being projected as the best WR in this draft but I don't think that's saying he's mega elite. I don't see anyone projecting him along the lines of Green, Julio, Calvin or Fitz type prospects.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top