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Thomas Piketty: Capital in the 21st Century (1 Viewer)

Dinsy Ejotuz

Footballguy
Curious if anyone's read this yet? Have seen a bunch of reviews -- almost all of them good, even from some people who are ideologically opposed to his conclusions, but haven't read it yet.

Seems like the biggest criticism isn't with his research as much as it is with the premise that wide and growing economic inequality is bad (he assumes it is and offers prescriptions without citing why we should be worried).

The only truly "negative" review I've seen so far came from American Enterprise (AEI), but they sort of ignored his basic premise in their rebuttal (focusing on the top quintile, rather than the very wealthiest of the wealthy -- a fraction of the top 1%).

Anyhow, I'm curious what people who've read the book thought about it. And also to hear/see any well-reasoned/supported criticisms that people come across.

 
I started reading it today, will a take a while to get through it as it's a ponderous tome. I can provide my thoughts and highlights as I go through it. A few things that stood out to me from the introduction (30 pages worth):

Piketty provides an overview of the history of economic thinking about inequality from the late eighteenth century forward, and notes that it is has been one of the primary focuses of economic thought from the beginning. He outlines several major evolutionary stages of the thinking around inequality, and notes that the thinking is largely tied to the social and political events of the time. From the fear of revolution and economic uprising in late eighteenth century France and England, to the fallout of the industrial revolution and threat of worker revolts in the nineteenth and early twentieth century.

Much discussion is given to the lack of empirical data around wealth and income, and this is important because when the data does start to become available in the mid-twentieth century the world is still strongly feeling the shocks of the two World Wars and the Great Depression. Both of those events had a profound effect on the distribution of wealth and income, so the data and subsequent analysis was taking place in what can now be defined as an atypical period by historical standards. Piketty points to this as a reason why the evaluation of income and inequality was largely set aside in the late twentieth century - it became widely accepted that the later stages of economic development would lead to reduced economic inequality because that was the observable trend from the 1910s-1970s.

He outlines what he considers to be forces for economic convergence - mainly the spread and accessibility of information and training - and divergence in the economy today. If you've read reviews so far you know that for divergence he focuses on r > g as the primary driver of divergence, or that the rate of return on capital will almost always outpace the rate of normal growth of population and productivity. Over time, he concludes that this will lead to a greater share of the national income being concentrated among a small percentage of earners, and that this also has a tendency to become more entrenched as the wealth is passed from one generation to the next. Picketty takes care though to distance himself from the "apocalyptic" predictions of Marx, and that this concentration of wealth does not necessarily foretell a systemic collapse. Nonetheless, there are likely consequences that need to be considered and potentially avoided.

Some quotes I've found that are good so far:

From the first to the sixth decade of the nineteenth century, workers' wages stagnated at very low levels -- close or even inferior to the levels of the eighteenth and previous centuries. This long phase of wage stagnation, which we observe in Britain as well as France. stands out all the more because economic growth was accelerating in this period.
Seem at all familiar to the stagnation of nearly every wages group save the top 1% we are currently experiencing?

The history of the distribution of wealth has always been deeply political, and it cannot be reduced to purely economic mechanisms. In particular, the reduction of inequality that took place in most developed countries between 1910 and 1950 was above all a consequence of war and of polices adopted to cope with the shocks of war. Similarly, the resurgence of inequality after 1980 is due largely to the political shifts of the past several decades, especially in regard to taxation and finance.
In particular, their history [England and France] is indispensable for studying what has been called the "first globalization" of finance and trade (1870-1914), a period that is in many ways similar to the "second globalization," which has been underway since the 1970s. The period of the first globalization is as fascinating as it was prodigiously inegalitarian.
I'm interested to read more about how he compares these periods.

 
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Funniest line from a review I've read about the book from the HBR:

You should definitely buy it, if your place on the income distribution allows it. It looks good on a bookshelf, plus every copy sold makes Piketty wealthier, allowing us to discover whether this alters his views about inequality.
 
Just saw a comment following a review of the book that sort of mirrors what I mentioned as the biggest critique -- namely that Piketty doesn't actually talk about why inequality is bad...

I think the most prominent line of conservative defense that I have seen, and the one they are likely to converge to in the long term, is to grant Piketty's data and arguments, and then say "Big deal." They will say growing inequality doesn't matter much so long as all ships are rising on the tide and living standards are going up.

Piketty does weave a theme through the book about the impact of growing inequality on the viability of democratic society and on our self-understanding as democratic citizens, but perhaps as a Frenchman still living in the historical aura of a revolution fought for égalité, he takes it for granted that inequality is something most of his readers do care about, and sees his main task as one of documenting, analyzing and explaining what has been happening on that front over the past couple of centuries, and what is likely to happen in the future if economic practices are not changed. Piketty's core argument is that there is no mechanism inherent in the economic systems of modern developed world economies leading to a natural reduction in inequality through the unguided working of market mechanisms alone.

So for those who do care about inequality, that puts the burden back on them to figure out what we need to change about our current ways of doing things in order to avoid the grossly inegalitarian future that otherwise awaits us. But those who do not care about inequality will be, of course, nonplussed.

I think it is useful to put Piketty's economic arguments in a broader context of the work by Stiglitz, Wilkinson and others about the economic, social and psychological harms caused by economic inequality to get the full argument to which Piketty's work gives rise:

Others: Inequality is harmful.

Piketty: Market capitalism displays a demonstrable natural tendency toward increasing inequality.

Therefore: We should do something about inequality that does not consist in simply sitting back and waiting for market mechanisms to do their work.
 
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Going to try to grab a copy at Barnes & Noble on the way home. Currently sold out on both Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com.

 
I haven't read the book. I've seen a lot of links to the Solow review and to the Cowen review, both of which make Piketty's book sound worthwhile. It's really long, though, and I've already got a bunch of other unread books on my kindle that are ahead of it in line, so I doubt I'll get to it anytime soon.

 
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Curious if anyone's read this yet? Have seen a bunch of reviews -- almost all of them good, even from some people who are ideologically opposed to his conclusions, but haven't read it yet.
I wonder if they will feel differently about the book after they read it.

 
One thing is for sure, when you read Krugman writing about it, Capital in the 21st Century = Krugman's idea of porn.

Not sure if I will read it or not. Might do it just because of all the hype it is getting. However, that is a lot of effort for a nearly 700 page book that is likely not exactly light reading.

 
I've read through Part 1, which mainly covers income and growth. The chapter on income and output goes over definitions that he'll use throughout and gets a little deeper into the r < g hypothesis and factor of economic convergence and divergence that I discussed from the Introduction. Some interesting tidbits from that chapter:

For a long time, the idea accepted by most economists and uncritically repeated in textbooks was that the relative shares of labor and capital in national income were quite stable over the long run, with the generally accepted figure being two-thirds for labor and one-third for capital. Today, with the advantage of greater historical perspective and newly available data, it is clear that the reality was quite a bit more complex.
He goes on talk about how the capital/labor share fluctuated during the 20th century, particularly in response to shocks as I discussed up above, with labor having a historically high share in the post-WW II era and capital reasserting itself after 1980.

One of the terms he defines in chapter 1 is the capital/income ratio, which is taking a country's total shares of capital (or wealth, which he uses interchangeably) divided by one year of national income. The result will give you the rough number of years of income comprising the nations capital. For most developed nations this number is between 5 and 6. Nations' capital also tends to be roughly split into two equal parts, residential capital (houses) and professional capital (stocks, bonds, etc). Piketty doesn't spend too much time on this, but Part 2 of the book is going to go through this in more detail.

On convergence/divergence:

None of the Asian countries that have moved closer to the developed countries of the West in recent years has benefited from large foreign investments, whether it be Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan and more recently China. In essence, all of these countries themselves financed the necessary investments in physical capital and, even more, in human capital, which the latest research holds to be the key to long-term growth.
[H]istorical experience suggests that the principal mechanism for convergence at the international as well as the domestic level is the diffusion of knowledge. In other words, the poor catch up with the rich to the extent that they achieve the same level of technological know-how, skill, and education, not by becoming the property of the wealthy.

...

Above all, knowledge diffusion depends on a country's ability to mobilize financing as well as institutions that encourage large-scale investment in education and training of the population while guaranteeing a stable legal framework that various economic actors can reliably count on.
He sources his research that shows domestic capital investment in more important than foreign investment for economic convergence, I haven't looked it up but this seems to make sense as with domestic investment all of the return on capital is going into the national income as opposed to a large share being in the income of another country. I think he's overstating a point here though. The choice in many cases may not be between domestic vs. foreign capital, but between foreign capital or NO capital.

The chapter on growth was more interesting I thought. He starts by sorting out growth into the primary categories of demographic growth and per capita growth:

[G]rowth always includes a purely demographic component and a purely economic component, and only the latter allows for an improvement in the standard of living.
When breaking them down, and also measuring real vs. nominal growth rates on the economic side, we see much lower rates of growth than the large GDP growth rates we often see reported. Pikkety doesn't see this as a problem as he points out that even relatively small growth rates, as long as they are stable, lead to large increases over time due to compound growth factors. Those same compound growth factors are also ones that can potentially lead to more inequality over time:

The central thesis of this book is precisely than an apparently small gap between the return on capital and the rate of growth can in the long run have powerful and destabilizing effects on the structure and dynamics of social inequality.
Circling back for a minute onto demographic vs. economic growth, he notes that demographic growth has a natural propensity towards convergence:

Other things being equal, strong demographic growth tends to play an equalizing role because it decreases the importance of inherited wealth: every generation must in some sense construct itself.
This gets into an interesting comparison of the growth in the 20th century between western Europe and North America, where the explosive demographic growth in the U.S. - both from natural population growth (fertility rates) and immigration - has created a very different economic environment that in Europe. Piketty talks about how in Europe they look back on the period between 1950-1970 as the peak of growth in the 20th century, while in the U.S. the 1980-2000 period is the more idealized point of time. His implication seems to be that demographic growth deserves a larger share of credit for the success of the post-1980 period in the U.S. than is typically talked about, and when you look at the per captia growth rates, they are quite stable and similar.

 
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Have seen a few other critical reviews that did a good job (especially James Galbraith), and also the Financial Times/Piketty exchange that Pikkety won going away.

But reading the FT's desperate effort to take him down made me realize right wingers are missing the point.

He should scare them not because he's right (maybe, maybe not), but because the degree to which he's resonating indicates that our politics and policy will soon be going that direction whether he's right or not. It's like trying to stop the tide.

 
Have seen a few other critical reviews that did a good job (especially James Galbraith), and also the Financial Times/Piketty exchange that Pikkety won going away.

But reading the FT's desperate effort to take him down made me realize right wingers are missing the point.

He should scare them not because he's right (maybe, maybe not), but because the degree to which he's resonating indicates that our politics and policy will soon be going that direction whether he's right or not. It's like trying to stop the tide.
I think that that is more about a crappy economy since 2008 than it is anything bigger. When the economy is actually moving along and more people are making money or more money than they use to then people are not as worried about how much the richest of the rich are making. When you can barely get a job or only find crappy jobs or have not received a raise in 6 years- then people get angry when they hear that the richest of the rich are still making money.

 
All the reviews I've seen, even a bunch that sharply disagree with Piketty's main points, say that the book is important and worthwhile.

Still, I can't see myself reading such a long book about macro. Macro is so boring.

 
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All the reviews I've seen, even a bunch that sharply disagree with Picketty's main points, say that the book is important and worthwhile.

Still, I can't see myself reading such a long book about macro. Macro is so boring.
I love Macro and I don't think I'm going to read it. I'm enjoying the debate though, and it's convinced a whole bunch of really smart people to respond to it.

 
I'm with MT on this. This is the sort of book that I feel like I should probably read, but realistically it isn't going to happen. Pretty much every review by anybody I care about has been effusively positive, but it's on a topic I simply don't care about. Maybe I'll pick it up at some point and skim it because I know I'll be asked about it, but how do you skim something like this while doing justice to the author?

I do think there's a lot to be said for presenting a less-mathematical rendition of high-quality economics for educated laymen. Regardless of your opinions of his thoughts on monetary theory, Milton Friedman was great at this sort of thing for people of my political persuasion. It sounds like Piketty's book has a good chance of joining a very small club of widely-read but still serious works in the discipline.

 
Does he go into the effect of the Fed on inequality increases over the last few decades? As described here (much more pithy than the book) the Fed has done a lot to hollow out the middle class in the effort to cover for the national debt.

 
I'm with MT on this. This is the sort of book that I feel like I should probably read, but realistically it isn't going to happen. Pretty much every review by anybody I care about has been effusively positive, but it's on a topic I simply don't care about. Maybe I'll pick it up at some point and skim it because I know I'll be asked about it, but how do you skim something like this while doing justice to the author?

I do think there's a lot to be said for presenting a less-mathematical rendition of high-quality economics for educated laymen. Regardless of your opinions of his thoughts on monetary theory, Milton Friedman was great at this sort of thing for people of my political persuasion. It sounds like Piketty's book has a good chance of joining a very small club of widely-read but still serious works in the discipline.
I would be willing to bet that a vast majority of the copies purchased are more about looking good on a bookshelf or for skimming than actually reading.

 
Fairly damning criticism here if it holds up. I find misleading statements motivated by ideological bias pretty distasteful in this type of work.

 
I would be willing to bet that a vast majority of the copies purchased are more about looking good on a bookshelf or for skimming than actually reading.
You'd win your bet.

That article cleverly judges how far into a book people typically get by looking at which passages Amazon Kindle readers most commonly highlight from it. Are the highlighted passages spread evenly throughout the book, or do they appear only in the very beginning?

By that measure, Piketty's Capital in the Twenty-First Century appears to have surpassed Hawking's A Brief History of Time as the most un-read book ever.

 
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I like reading the polls answered by the IGM Economic Experts Panel. (See: What economists DO agree on.)

The most recent one is about Picketty's idea that increasing wealth inequality in the U.S. is being driven mainly by the fact that after-tax returns on capital investment are outstripping the economic growth rate.

The panel generally disagrees.

 
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I didn't realize people were still looking at this, I stopped writing notes as I was reading since no one seemed to be interested. I found his arguments to be interesting but not ultimately persuasive on the why arguments. Most of the comments in IGM panel seem to be thinking along those lines also. Not much disagreement that wealth and income inequality is a rising trend, you can't definitely state the gap between r and g is the primary factor in that.

 
I like reading the polls answered by the IGM Economic Experts Panel. (See: What economists DO agree on.)

The most recent one is about Picketty's idea that increasing wealth inequality in the U.S. is being driven mainly by the fact that after-tax returns on capital investment are outstripping the economic growth rate.

The panel generally disagrees.
:goodposting:

Love the IGM Panel and their responses to issues. Pretty damning that the Panel largely disagrees.

 
I like reading the polls answered by the IGM Economic Experts Panel. (See: What economists DO agree on.)

The most recent one is about Picketty's idea that increasing wealth inequality in the U.S. is being driven mainly by the fact that after-tax returns on capital investment are outstripping the economic growth rate.

The panel generally disagrees.
:goodposting:

Love the IGM Panel and their responses to issues. Pretty damning that the Panel largely disagrees.
Not necessarily. The r > g argument is new macroeconomic idea that has basically this one major study out. If you read through the comments on the question most people are pointing to factors like technology and globalization as the key things driving the growth in inequality, and those also affect both the r and g sides of his equation. I think most responders just don't feel comfortable saying there is a definitive causation going on, at least enough to say it's the "primary" driver of inequality which is how the question is worded.

 
I like reading the polls answered by the IGM Economic Experts Panel. (See: What economists DO agree on.)

The most recent one is about Picketty's idea that increasing wealth inequality in the U.S. is being driven mainly by the fact that after-tax returns on capital investment are outstripping the economic growth rate.

The panel generally disagrees.
:goodposting:

Love the IGM Panel and their responses to issues. Pretty damning that the Panel largely disagrees.
Not necessarily. The r > g argument is new macroeconomic idea that has basically this one major study out. If you read through the comments on the question most people are pointing to factors like technology and globalization as the key things driving the growth in inequality, and those also affect both the r and g sides of his equation. I think most responders just don't feel comfortable saying there is a definitive causation going on, at least enough to say it's the "primary" driver of inequality which is how the question is worded.
That was my thought too. What if r > g is a result of recent techonological changes, tax policy and Fed activities?

R > g is the mathematical reason for the changes, but from a policy perspective it's a symptom.

 

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