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***Official AFC Championship Thread: New England @ Denver (1 Viewer)

I don't understand that. They win....they win a lot. Their fans love them. That's all you want as a fan of a team. For them to win and play great.

The Patriots do that often. So they must be doing a lot of things right to consistently have the success they are having. Oh and that guy Brady is pretty good.

 
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wake me up when NE Scores..oh wait.....

more boring than the opening cermonies at London Olympics..Pats were DOMINATED..game wasnt close. only thing stopping us from talking about Brady not having won anything since 2003 season,was the bad postseason performances of Manning in the past.Brady flat-out stunk. Some reporter guy, analyst,etc, was on Francesa on WFAN talking about how he's NEVER seen Brady more intense, more focused in his life, than he was the days leading up to this game..

so, now, let's start talking about Brady's failures in postseason, his inability to win the big game, ya know, because 9 pts separate him from 0-5 SB record. cheating aside, he needed the "tuck" rule (AFCCG) a PI call v. Rams, and a concussed McNabb to win his 3 SB's..and you all act like he's on Manning's level.and then the brainiacs on here, ridicule those who say Brady and BB havent won since spygate, but , yet, ITS TRUE..

aside from a great defense carrying him, when has Trent Dilfer, I mean, Tommy Brady, won anything??

and yet, guys like Yudkin say that neither the 2007 or 2011 Giants were any special SB winning team.just typical ,laughable, Pats homers responses..so, beating GB at home in NFCCG , AND beating the second only undefeated Team to play in a SB means nothing? beating the 15-1 Packers , and Niners on the road in 2011 meant nothing?gotta beat THE BEST to BE the BEST Yudkins replies are just laughable.tell ya what means nothing: 18-0. 12-4 in 2013.homefield adv for ACFCG last season ?means nothing.ask baltimore.NE is what we thought they were: pretenders, overacheivers, overrated, overhyped fluffers..they didnt even show up today..so, lets start talking about Bradys lifetime failures in the postseason, and how he cant win the big one..because, ya know, he CAN'T..and if not for cheating that helped him win SB's(fact), what's his reason for the past 10 years of failure??

Brady can't hold Manning's jockstrap...just a deplorable showing by Brady and Co.WHERE WAS THE RUNNING GAME??? remember how so many of you said NE was going to run it down Denvers throats.?? i'm still waiting for that to happen..remember the Jack del Rio is 0-100 vs BB BS talk? where are you guys today? NE got punked.

speaking of punks, none is talking bout Collie's post game hat wearing deal, with the bill folded up like Jesper Parnevick in Pga? oh wait, we can only ridicule Kaepernick for his flat billed hat, not Collie for his folded up hat bill??

he looked like a white trash idiot from Myrte Manor TV show....act / dress professionally..

 
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Polka King said:
Cunk said:
Congratulations to Denver and their fans. This wasn't one of those games where it feels like the Pats could have won it. The Broncos were clearly the better team and I look forward to rooting them on in the Superbowl.
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As a Pats fan, couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad I had to weed through all of the lame Spygate and cheating posts to see this.
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Sorry, but spygate really happened. People correctly discount the accomplishments of people like Barry Bonds because we know they had "help." Brady has been good since spygate and he,'ll still get into the HOF, but it's fair to note that he won his titles when he and the rest of his team knew the other team's plays. It's a lot harder when you don't have that crutch.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Polka King said:
Cunk said:
Congratulations to Denver and their fans. This wasn't one of those games where it feels like the Pats could have won it. The Broncos were clearly the better team and I look forward to rooting them on in the Superbowl.
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As a Pats fan, couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad I had to weed through all of the lame Spygate and cheating posts to see this.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but spygate really happened. People correctly discount the accomplishments of people like Barry Bonds because we know they had "help." Brady has been good since spygate and he,'ll still get into the HOF, but it's fair to note that he won his titles when he and the rest of his team knew the other team's plays. It's a lot harder when you don't have that crutch.
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C'mon, you're smarter than this.

 
Tanner9919 said:
wake me up when NE Scores..oh wait.....

more boring than the opening cermonies at London Olympics..Pats were DOMINATED..game wasnt close. only thing stopping us from talking about Brady not having won anything since 2003 season,was the bad postseason performances of Manning in the past.Brady flat-out stunk. Some reporter guy, analyst,etc, was on Francesa on WFAN talking about how he's NEVER seen Brady more intense, more focused in his life, than he was the days leading up to this game..

so, now, let's start talking about Brady's failures in postseason, his inability to win the big game, ya know, because 9 pts separate him from 0-5 SB record. cheating aside, he needed the "tuck" rule (AFCCG) a PI call v. Rams, and a concussed McNabb to win his 3 SB's..and you all act like he's on Manning's level.and then the brainiacs on here, ridicule those who say Brady and BB havent won since spygate, but , yet, ITS TRUE..

aside from a great defense carrying him, when has Trent Dilfer, I mean, Tommy Brady, won anything??

and yet, guys like Yudkin say that neither the 2007 or 2011 Giants were any special SB winning team.just typical ,laughable, Pats homers responses..so, beating GB at home in NFCCG , AND beating the second only undefeated Team to play in a SB means nothing? beating the 15-1 Packers , and Niners on the road in 2011 meant nothing?gotta beat THE BEST to BE the BEST Yudkins replies are just laughable.tell ya what means nothing: 18-0. 12-4 in 2013.homefield adv for ACFCG last season ?means nothing.ask baltimore.NE is what we thought they were: pretenders, overacheivers, overrated, overhyped fluffers..they didnt even show up today..so, lets start talking about Bradys lifetime failures in the postseason, and how he cant win the big one..because, ya know, he CAN'T..and if not for cheating that helped him win SB's(fact), what's his reason for the past 10 years of failure??

Brady can't hold Manning's jockstrap...just a deplorable showing by Brady and Co.WHERE WAS THE RUNNING GAME??? remember how so many of you said NE was going to run it down Denvers throats.?? i'm still waiting for that to happen..remember the Jack del Rio is 0-100 vs BB BS talk? where are you guys today? NE got punked.

speaking of punks, none is talking bout Collie's post game hat wearing deal, with the bill folded up like Jesper Parnevick in Pga? oh wait, we can only ridicule Kaepernick for his flat billed hat, not Collie for his folded up hat bill??

he looked like a white trash idiot from Myrte Manor TV show....act / dress professionally..
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If you could study grammar before posting again, that'd be great.

 
Excellent game by Manning and Denver. Brady missing Edleman for 6 was a huge missed opportunity for the Pats early. Talib going down on Welker's crack back killed NE. Pats were lucky they only loss by 10. NE should be loaded next year though on both sides of the ball.

 
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.

 
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Workhorse said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Polka King said:
Cunk said:
Congratulations to Denver and their fans. This wasn't one of those games where it feels like the Pats could have won it. The Broncos were clearly the better team and I look forward to rooting them on in the Superbowl.
Click to expand...
As a Pats fan, couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad I had to weed through all of the lame Spygate and cheating posts to see this.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but spygate really happened. People correctly discount the accomplishments of people like Barry Bonds because we know they had "help." Brady has been good since spygate and he,'ll still get into the HOF, but it's fair to note that he won his titles when he and the rest of his team knew the other team's plays. It's a lot harder when you don't have that crutch.
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C'mon, you're smarter than this.
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Sorry to disappoint. Like I said, Brady is clearly a HOFer even if you ignore the cheating era, but it's also not fair to pretending knowing the other guy's play call isn't a significant advantage. I honestly don't view any of the patriots sb wins as "legitimate." I'll grant that they were very unfortunate to lose to David Tyree.

 
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
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Agreed. Aikman is the most overrated QB of all time.

As far as Brady, people act like being the 2nd best QB of his generation is some sort of indictment.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Workhorse said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Polka King said:
Cunk said:
Congratulations to Denver and their fans. This wasn't one of those games where it feels like the Pats could have won it. The Broncos were clearly the better team and I look forward to rooting them on in the Superbowl.
Click to expand...
As a Pats fan, couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad I had to weed through all of the lame Spygate and cheating posts to see this.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but spygate really happened. People correctly discount the accomplishments of people like Barry Bonds because we know they had "help." Brady has been good since spygate and he,'ll still get into the HOF, but it's fair to note that he won his titles when he and the rest of his team knew the other team's plays. It's a lot harder when you don't have that crutch.
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C'mon, you're smarter than this.
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Sorry to disappoint. Like I said, Brady is clearly a HOFer even if you ignore the cheating era, but it's also not fair to pretending knowing the other guy's play call isn't a significant advantage. I honestly don't view any of the patriots sb wins as "legitimate." I'll grant that they were very unfortunate to lose to David Tyree.
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It's also naive to think that taping another teams signals would automatically lead to knowing every teams play call. Think about what you're saying here: Every Major League Baseball team could look at 162 games worth of video of every catchers signals with men on base. Does that mean that they know every pitch that's coming for every opposing team once they have a man on second base? Honestly, I sometimes wonder if people actually think about Spygate with any amount of rational, critical thought as opposed to breathless hyperbole and vitriol.

 
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
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I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
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Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.

 
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Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
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Were you alive to watch Aikman? I feel like anyone who watched him play realizes how average he was. He benefitted more than anyone for having a great supporting cast. I love hijacking threads to talk trash about Aikman! Most overrated ever! Him and Michael "best at offensive pass interference" Irvin.

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
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When I compare Aikman to Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Young, Brees, Rodgers

Yeah.....average.

I have watched football since 1975.....so....been watching plenty of it my entire life. Your obviously a Dallas fan as I just struck a nerve.

Staubach was great. Aikman was average. When you compare the greats.....he is not in the same catagory as the guys I mentioned.

So......sorry to offend your supreme football knowledge....but I found Aikman to be a very good pro, very efficient....but not as spectacular as some others. Better than most indeed...but not better than many of his peers like Marino, Favre, Elway, Young, Moon, Kelly....just not in my eyes. And don't pull the scheme card. He was not as good a pure passer as those guys.

Anyway....it's highly debatable. And Trent Dilfer was not average....he stunk. Relatively speaking amongst NFL high level QB's.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
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Thank you....I know I am not crazy.

 
Do people really think that since Spygate happened a long time ago that it doesn't count? They cheated, they got caught and it nullified their SB wins.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
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Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...which were mostly a function of scheme. Of course those were great Dallas teams. Assuming you are talking talent of course, and not FF stuff. I watched almost every game his rookie year when they were 1-15 and he was playing from behind every game, throwing to the likes of James Dixon (I think he was the Cowboys leading WR that year), standing in the pocket and getting absolutely hammered.

He was one of the toughest QB's ever, very accurate, and did what he was asked to do. Watch a few of the Dallas-SF playoff games-he is by no means overrated. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Montana-but he's never mentioned with those guys anyways.

What's funny is when you read the Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith debates the Sanders proponents use your same argument. Apparently those early 90's Cowboy teams had no stud players- they were all average or each individual's talent is downgraded because they played with other great players.

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...which were mostly a function of scheme. Of course those were great Dallas teams. Assuming you are talking talent of course, and not FF stuff. I watched almost every game his rookie year when they were 1-15 and he was playing from behind every game, throwing to the likes of James Dixon (I think he was the Cowboys leading WR that year), standing in the pocket and getting absolutely hammered.

He was one of the toughest QB's ever, very accurate, and did what he was asked to do. Watch a few of the Dallas-SF playoff games-he is by no means overrated. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Montana-but he's never mentioned with those guys anyways.

What's funny is when you read the Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith debates the Sanders proponents use your same argument. Apparently those early 90's Cowboy teams had no stud players- they were all average or each individual's talent is downgraded because they played with other great players.
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Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...which were mostly a function of scheme. Of course those were great Dallas teams. Assuming you are talking talent of course, and not FF stuff. I watched almost every game his rookie year when they were 1-15 and he was playing from behind every game, throwing to the likes of James Dixon (I think he was the Cowboys leading WR that year), standing in the pocket and getting absolutely hammered.

He was one of the toughest QB's ever, very accurate, and did what he was asked to do. Watch a few of the Dallas-SF playoff games-he is by no means overrated. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Montana-but he's never mentioned with those guys anyways.

What's funny is when you read the Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith debates the Sanders proponents use your same argument. Apparently those early 90's Cowboy teams had no stud players- they were all average or each individual's talent is downgraded because they played with other great players.
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I don't think anyone argues that Emmitt Smith was average, they just argue that Barry was better, and that had Barry had the supporting cast Emmitt had he would have put up better numbers than Emmitt and had more postseason success than he did on the Lions. Aikman on the other hand was most certainly average.

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...which were mostly a function of scheme. Of course those were great Dallas teams. Assuming you are talking talent of course, and not FF stuff. I watched almost every game his rookie year when they were 1-15 and he was playing from behind every game, throwing to the likes of James Dixon (I think he was the Cowboys leading WR that year), standing in the pocket and getting absolutely hammered.

He was one of the toughest QB's ever, very accurate, and did what he was asked to do. Watch a few of the Dallas-SF playoff games-he is by no means overrated. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Montana-but he's never mentioned with those guys anyways.

What's funny is when you read the Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith debates the Sanders proponents use your same argument. Apparently those early 90's Cowboy teams had no stud players- they were all average or each individual's talent is downgraded because they played with other great players.
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I do think Aikman was a very good pro...no question. But I am only comparing him to the absolute greats like the guys I mentioned. I just do not put him in that caliber.

But again....great pro. I put him the Eli Manning type of caliber. Eli is a very good QB too. But not elite.....so there I don't think Aikman was elite.

By no means do I think he is an average joe....but compared to the greats.....not in their class. And I watched a ton of Aikmans games throughout bis career. Really good pro...no question.

 
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Shanahanigans said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
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Were you alive to watch Aikman? I feel like anyone who watched him play realizes how average he was. He benefitted more than anyone for having a great supporting cast. I love hijacking threads to talk trash about Aikman! Most overrated ever! Him and Michael "best at offensive pass interference" Irvin.
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Yeah those were the glory years for us Cowboy fans. been a fan since 4th grade 1971 when they beat Miami in the Super Bowl. Funny, I think the exact opposite as you-that anyone who actually watched him realizes he was much better than his numbers indicate. Sure he had a great supporting cast. But you can't use this argument for every Cowboy player from that team. People downgrade Emmitt because he had Aikman, Irvin, and that O-line. People downgrade Aikman because of Emmitt and Irvin. At some point you have to just admit those were great players regardless of surrounding talent. Aikman played within their scheme.

 
Todem said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...which were mostly a function of scheme. Of course those were great Dallas teams. Assuming you are talking talent of course, and not FF stuff. I watched almost every game his rookie year when they were 1-15 and he was playing from behind every game, throwing to the likes of James Dixon (I think he was the Cowboys leading WR that year), standing in the pocket and getting absolutely hammered.

He was one of the toughest QB's ever, very accurate, and did what he was asked to do. Watch a few of the Dallas-SF playoff games-he is by no means overrated. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Montana-but he's never mentioned with those guys anyways.

What's funny is when you read the Barry Sanders/Emmitt Smith debates the Sanders proponents use your same argument. Apparently those early 90's Cowboy teams had no stud players- they were all average or each individual's talent is downgraded because they played with other great players.
Click to expand...
I do think Aikman was a very good pro...no question. But I am only comparing him to the absolute greats like the guys I mentioned. I just do not put him in that caliber.But again....great pro. I put him the Eli Manning type of caliber. Eli is a very good QB too. But not elite.....so there I don't think Aikman was elite.

By no means do I think he is an average joe....but compared to the greats.....not in their class. And I watched a ton of Aikmans games throughout bis career. Really good pro...no question.
Click to expand...
Ok. I'll just leave it at- there's a huge range between elite and average. I won't argue he was elite. You also need to acknowledge that some of the names you mention played a different game than Aikman. It's a different game today than it was then. Spectacularly different. The entire state of offensive football philosophy was different when Aikman played. When everyone says "average" , what are you actually referring to? Arm strength? Decision making? Toughness? Intangibles? Or is it just numbers? I don't see how anyone can make a legit "average" argument based on any of the former traits.

And btw-nobody "struck a nerve". I'm a Cowboys fan but I'm also their biggest critic. I just think this kind of analysis is misguided.

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...
Click to expand...
No. I watched a ton of Dallas games because I didn't have the ticket back then. I know good-but-not-great when I see it.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...
Click to expand...
No. I watched a ton of Dallas games because I didn't have the ticket back then. I know good-but-not-great when I see it.
Click to expand...
Ok. What specifically? Just curious-kind of boring topic I know so don't bother responding if you don't want.

You sure as a Bill's fan you might not be a little biased? /wink/wink

 
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
Aikman was absolutely an average-plus QB. Those Dallas teams were stellar thanks to Emmit Smith, a great line, and really good defense. Aikman didn't suck, but it's kind of a joke that he's in the hall.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only measure you have to make such a statement are his statistics...
Click to expand...
No. I watched a ton of Dallas games because I didn't have the ticket back then. I know good-but-not-great when I see it.
Click to expand...
Ok. What specifically? Just curious-kind of boring topic I know so don't bother responding if you don't want.

You sure as a Bill's fan you might not be a little biased? /wink/wink
Click to expand...
I don't think I'm biased on this at all. Dallas was a markedly better team than Buffalo in both SB years. It's just that Aikman was a guy who they never had any problem winning without.

 
Todem said:
Run It Up said:
rockaction said:
Oh, God, do I ever love waving the Pats goodbye. Frauds in a fraud division with a fraud coach. Good. #######. night.
Click to expand...
12-4, beat the Colts, Saints and Broncos. I mean I know its fashionable to be a moron and hate on a great team - but you sir are a pro.

let's see another team take this garbage to the AFC championship.
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Agreed.....a useless post. Fraud of a coach? My god he made lemonade out of oranges......that team as decimated by injury. When you have a great coach and a great QB....great things can happen.

Period.

PS I can't stand the Pat's or any team from the AFC not named Miami. But when you see greatness....you should acknowledge it. This Patriots organization is first class.
Click to expand...
Oh, c'mon. I can't be a football fan dancing on the grave of a team I hate? Child, please.

Oh, and Spygate.

 
Todem said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
When I compare Aikman to Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Young, Brees, RodgersYeah.....average.

I have watched football since 1975.....so....been watching plenty of it my entire life. Your obviously a Dallas fan as I just struck a nerve.

Staubach was great. Aikman was average. When you compare the greats.....he is not in the same catagory as the guys I mentioned.

So......sorry to offend your supreme football knowledge....but I found Aikman to be a very good pro, very efficient....but not as spectacular as some others. Better than most indeed...but not better than many of his peers like Marino, Favre, Elway, Young, Moon, Kelly....just not in my eyes. And don't pull the scheme card. He was not as good a pure passer as those guys.

Anyway....it's highly debatable. And Trent Dilfer was not average....he stunk. Relatively speaking amongst NFL high level QB's.
Click to expand...
So is Marshall Faulk average compared to Jim Brown. Is Tim Brown average vs Jerry Rice?

You don't compare someone to the greats in NFL history and then call them average compared to them, that is plain stupid. Those other guys are still great players, just not as good as Jim Brown or Rice.

You are off on Aikman, he could have thrown for a lot more yards if needed, he had a great arm. They had a great defense and a great running game, they were often ahead, didn't need to throw every down. Troy Aikman is not an average QB, an average QB is more Romo, Phillip Rivers or Matthew Stafford so far. I watched about every Dallas game back then, there was nothing average about Aikman. Average to Joe Montana, where is the rationale on that kind of comparison, average is to the rest of the league.

 
I haven't watched tape of him recently, but I seem to remember Aikman being pretty darn good. He was very accurate when he needed to be, and pretty darn clutch.

Or am I remembering wrong, and the booze is clouding my memory?

 
Peyton Manning played great, never made the big mistake and the better team won today. That drive to start the 3rd quarter was a monster. NE just did not generate enough pressure on Manning, he was not knocked down enough in this game, way to clean.

 
Hoss Style said:
I haven't watched tape of him recently, but I seem to remember Aikman being pretty darn good. He was very accurate when he needed to be, and pretty darn clutch.

Or am I remembering wrong, and the booze is clouding my memory?
Click to expand...
John Madden called him the most accurate passer he's ever seen.

 
Aikman average? Anybody saying that should be banned from discussing QB play for good. He is one of those rare finds where if you could build the perfect QB, it might look and play like him.

Stats do not even begin to tell the story on evaluating QB play.

 
RBM said:
Aikman average? Anybody saying that should be banned from discussing QB play for good. He is one of those rare finds where if you could build the perfect QB, it might look and play like him.

Stats do not even begin to tell the story on evaluating QB play.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd tend to agree with this. I'm just going off of memory here, though. I just seem to remember him making big plays and laying the ball exactly where it needed to be, especially in big games.

 
Manning is better than Brady, for now. If Manning manages to win the SB I think it puts to rest who the greatest of all time is, too. To be 2-1 in 3 appearances and winning a ring with 2 different teams. Has anyone ever even done that? But if he loses (and Seattle is no slouch of a team), it leaves the door open to still bring in guys like Montana, Elway, and possibly Brady back into the discussion again. If Manning wins this ring he seals the deal for best QB of all time, in my mind. I know plenty of people will disagree. But they'd be wrong.

 
Couple thoughts...

  • I was really impressed with Denver on both sides of the ball. Especially after looking not-so-unbeatable last week vs the mediocre Chargers.
  • I expected way more fight out of the Pats. Denver is going to take away your run option, we all knew that. You have Brady, start slinging the ball around.
  • The Pats Defense got absolutely shredded. I mean for real. Another surprise for me because I assumed they'd man up...I was wrong.
  • Finally...This talk of Aikman being mediocre is crazy talk. The dude was incredible. That entire team was incredible.
 
Hagger said:
Manning is better than Brady, for now. If Manning manages to win the SB I think it puts to rest who the greatest of all time is, too. To be 2-1 in 3 appearances and winning a ring with 2 different teams. Has anyone ever even done that? But if he loses (and Seattle is no slouch of a team), it leaves the door open to still bring in guys like Montana, Elway, and possibly Brady back into the discussion again. If Manning wins this ring he seals the deal for best QB of all time, in my mind. I know plenty of people will disagree. But they'd be wrong.
Click to expand...
The problem with GOAT discussions is that it's pretty hard to compare somebody like Manning, who plays in a very QB-friendly league, to people like Montana and Elway. If you put an in-his-prime Elway or Marino or Montana under center today, would you be willing to say for sure that they couldn't out-perform Manning? It's really, really tough to rank guys from different eras like that.

Clearly Manning is the best QB of his generation and is up there in the top tier of GOAT candidates. I just don't think there's ever going to be a clear, undisputed GOAT.

 
lbouchard said:
Tanner9919 said:
wake me up when NE Scores..oh wait.....

more boring than the opening cermonies at London Olympics..Pats were DOMINATED..game wasnt close. only thing stopping us from talking about Brady not having won anything since 2003 season,was the bad postseason performances of Manning in the past.Brady flat-out stunk. Some reporter guy, analyst,etc, was on Francesa on WFAN talking about how he's NEVER seen Brady more intense, more focused in his life, than he was the days leading up to this game..

so, now, let's start talking about Brady's failures in postseason, his inability to win the big game, ya know, because 9 pts separate him from 0-5 SB record. cheating aside, he needed the "tuck" rule (AFCCG) a PI call v. Rams, and a concussed McNabb to win his 3 SB's..and you all act like he's on Manning's level.and then the brainiacs on here, ridicule those who say Brady and BB havent won since spygate, but , yet, ITS TRUE..

aside from a great defense carrying him, when has Trent Dilfer, I mean, Tommy Brady, won anything??

and yet, guys like Yudkin say that neither the 2007 or 2011 Giants were any special SB winning team.just typical ,laughable, Pats homers responses..so, beating GB at home in NFCCG , AND beating the second only undefeated Team to play in a SB means nothing? beating the 15-1 Packers , and Niners on the road in 2011 meant nothing?gotta beat THE BEST to BE the BEST Yudkins replies are just laughable.tell ya what means nothing: 18-0. 12-4 in 2013.homefield adv for ACFCG last season ?means nothing.ask baltimore.NE is what we thought they were: pretenders, overacheivers, overrated, overhyped fluffers..they didnt even show up today..so, lets start talking about Bradys lifetime failures in the postseason, and how he cant win the big one..because, ya know, he CAN'T..and if not for cheating that helped him win SB's(fact), what's his reason for the past 10 years of failure??

Brady can't hold Manning's jockstrap...just a deplorable showing by Brady and Co.WHERE WAS THE RUNNING GAME??? remember how so many of you said NE was going to run it down Denvers throats.?? i'm still waiting for that to happen..remember the Jack del Rio is 0-100 vs BB BS talk? where are you guys today? NE got punked.

speaking of punks, none is talking bout Collie's post game hat wearing deal, with the bill folded up like Jesper Parnevick in Pga? oh wait, we can only ridicule Kaepernick for his flat billed hat, not Collie for his folded up hat bill??

he looked like a white trash idiot from Myrte Manor TV show....act / dress professionally..
Click to expand...
If you could study grammar before posting again, that'd be great.
Click to expand...
:lol:

SacramentoBob said:
Do people really think that since Spygate happened a long time ago that it doesn't count? They cheated, they got caught and it nullified their SB wins.
Click to expand...
You're better than this....

Hagger said:
If Manning manages to win the SB I think it puts to rest who the greatest of all time is, too. To be 2-1 in 3 appearances
Click to expand...
2-1 > 3-2? :lol: got it.

 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
Todem said:
Gandalf the Grey said:
Todem said:
Some of the hate for Brady is outright laughable.....just laughable. I can't stand the Patriots.....but I sure love watching Tom Brady play QB.

Guy is great. I don't get all the hate. I just don't. You want to talk about mediocore QB's who win a lot of titles and what not......talk about Troy Aikman. Guy was average.

Tom Brady is a great talent. He won with average talent this year.....average. 12-4 with that crew? Wow....very very impressive.
Click to expand...
I'd almost agree with this except for the Aikman part. That's just dumb. "Average"? Please....you don't watch much football I'd guess. Don't penalize a player because of scheme or his team's talent. He's not Trent Dilfer.

I'd guess most of the Brady "hate" is Patriot fan backlash. Currently, obviously with some exceptions, worst fans to listen to. I'm a Cowboy's fan-decades ago it was us.
Click to expand...
When I compare Aikman to Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Young, Brees, RodgersYeah.....average.

I have watched football since 1975.....so....been watching plenty of it my entire life. Your obviously a Dallas fan as I just struck a nerve.

Staubach was great. Aikman was average. When you compare the greats.....he is not in the same catagory as the guys I mentioned.

So......sorry to offend your supreme football knowledge....but I found Aikman to be a very good pro, very efficient....but not as spectacular as some others. Better than most indeed...but not better than many of his peers like Marino, Favre, Elway, Young, Moon, Kelly....just not in my eyes. And don't pull the scheme card. He was not as good a pure passer as those guys.

Anyway....it's highly debatable. And Trent Dilfer was not average....he stunk. Relatively speaking amongst NFL high level QB's.
Click to expand...
So is Marshall Faulk average compared to Jim Brown. Is Tim Brown average vs Jerry Rice?

You don't compare someone to the greats in NFL history and then call them average compared to them, that is plain stupid. Those other guys are still great players, just not as good as Jim Brown or Rice.

You are off on Aikman, he could have thrown for a lot more yards if needed, he had a great arm. They had a great defense and a great running game, they were often ahead, didn't need to throw every down. Troy Aikman is not an average QB, an average QB is more Romo, Phillip Rivers or Matthew Stafford so far. I watched about every Dallas game back then, there was nothing average about Aikman. Average to Joe Montana, where is the rationale on that kind of comparison, average is to the rest of the league.
Click to expand...
You should read all of his posts. He's a very special individual.

 
ok, trying not to hate, when do the Pats get called out for being so close but utterly failing in the playoffs for 10 years?

I mean the titles were 10 years ago. the greatest coach/qb combo of all time should be doing something more.

Peyton winning a superbowl at QB with another franchise pretty much cements him as the best of all time.

If I am him, and I win it, I just hang em up, after that regular season smashing every record, topped off with a superbowl, nothing left to prove.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
ok, trying not to hate, when do the Pats get called out for being so close but utterly failing in the playoffs for 10 years?

I mean the titles were 10 years ago. the greatest coach/qb combo of all time should be doing something more.

Peyton winning a superbowl at QB with another franchise pretty much cements him as the best of all time.

If I am him, and I win it, I just hang em up, after that regular season smashing every record, topped off with a superbowl, nothing left to prove.
Click to expand...
Manning loves the dedication and preparation it takes to play at his level and he loves the game. He has nothing to prove, be he is 100% dedicated. I just don't see him hanging it up until he can't play at an elite level.

 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
Peyton Manning played great, never made the big mistake and the better team won today. That drive to start the 3rd quarter was a monster. NE just did not generate enough pressure on Manning, he was not knocked down enough in this game, way to clean.
Click to expand...
He was not knocked down at all.....not once. It was crazy. He could write a novel back there yesterday. When that happens.....you see the result.

He will face a far greater challenge in Seattle's defense in two weeks. Should be a load of fun.

And as far as Aikman.....I said in a few posts he was a very good pro. But I personally do not hold him the elite class like others do. It's subjective man. It really is.

And Marshall Faulk was a beast for the record.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Hagger said:
Manning is better than Brady, for now. If Manning manages to win the SB I think it puts to rest who the greatest of all time is, too. To be 2-1 in 3 appearances and winning a ring with 2 different teams. Has anyone ever even done that? But if he loses (and Seattle is no slouch of a team), it leaves the door open to still bring in guys like Montana, Elway, and possibly Brady back into the discussion again. If Manning wins this ring he seals the deal for best QB of all time, in my mind. I know plenty of people will disagree. But they'd be wrong.
Click to expand...
The problem with GOAT discussions is that it's pretty hard to compare somebody like Manning, who plays in a very QB-friendly league, to people like Montana and Elway. If you put an in-his-prime Elway or Marino or Montana under center today, would you be willing to say for sure that they couldn't out-perform Manning? It's really, really tough to rank guys from different eras like that.

Clearly Manning is the best QB of his generation and is up there in the top tier of GOAT candidates. I just don't think there's ever going to be a clear, undisputed GOAT.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Very hard to compare the elite greats from different era's. Rules play a huge role today and yesteryear.

 
RBM said:
Aikman average? Anybody saying that should be banned from discussing QB play for good. He is one of those rare finds where if you could build the perfect QB, it might look and play like him.

Stats do not even begin to tell the story on evaluating QB play.
Click to expand...
I used the wrong word. I don't consider him elite.

If I were starting a team he would not be one of the guys that I would make sure I get at QB.

Seriously.

Montana

Marino

Elway

Brees

Manning

Brady

Rodgers

Shall I continue?

LMFAO. I can keep naming a few more too. I know I am not alone.

 
Hagger said:
Manning is better than Brady, for now. If Manning manages to win the SB I think it puts to rest who the greatest of all time is, too. To be 2-1 in 3 appearances and winning a ring with 2 different teams. Has anyone ever even done that? But if he loses (and Seattle is no slouch of a team), it leaves the door open to still bring in guys like Montana, Elway, and possibly Brady back into the discussion again. If Manning wins this ring he seals the deal for best QB of all time, in my mind. I know plenty of people will disagree. But they'd be wrong.
Click to expand...
No, but Norm Van Brocklin won championships with two different teams in the pre-Superbowl era. Kurt Warner and Craig Morton are the only two quarterbacks I can think of to even start Superbowls for two different teams, with Morton losing with both the Cowboys and the Broncos and Warner winning one (and losing another) with the Rams and losing one with Arizona (not his fault- he hit the game-winning TD, but his defense couldn't make it stick). There might be one or two more who simply aren't coming to mind.

 
Have to give the Denver D credit. I thought no matter who was catching the ball for NE, they'd be more successful.

That said, Brady missed two long balls that flat out have to be thrown better. The first one to Edelman could have changed the game. Manning was racking up yards, but the D was holding that offense to FGs and doing a decent job of bending but not breaking. The offensive performance was completely flat.

Amendola...shutout. Unreal.

Just an unacceptable offensive performance.

The pats probably should have never been in this position to begin with. Overachievers. Still, you get here, you have to take advantage of the opportunity.

The better team and better QB won yesterday.

With a healthier D (Mayo, Wilfork), improving youngsters (J. Collins, Dennard), and Gronk, NE will be right back here.

The haters will continue to have something to hate about I'm sure.

 
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