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East-West Shrine Game Report: NFL DAY (1 Viewer)

Bloom

Moderator
On Wednesday, I had the rare privilege of being a fly on the wall for NFL day at the East West Shrine Game practices in San Antonio. NFL day is the biggest day of the week, as most scouts leave on Thursday and scout the game on film. The tension was palpable as over 300 scouts gathered at Alamo Stadium to watch a great cross-section of the talent available in the 2006 NFL draft.

The change in intensity level from Monday's practice was apparent right away in drills, as many more players showed their emotion, whether they were making the perfect play or suffering the worst possible lapse at the worst possible time. The coaches were also visibly more keyed up, exalting their guys when they put the coaching in action to achieve results and really laying into them when they faltered mentally.

This was a make or break day for many players, and there was a clear sense of which guys embraced the pressure and which guys were somewhat broken by it. Every play was under the microscope.

I focused on the offensive skill players. Keep in mind that we are talking about a very small sample size of plays. I also got to talk to the director of player personnel for the game, John Murphy, and got his thoughts on some of the players. Thanks to John for taking the time out to share his observations.

Let's get down to business...

QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week. He was machine like in his pocket composure, accuracy, and mechanics. He's big and sturdy, and seems like a perfect west coast offense QB. Something about him reminded me of Matt Schaub. Toledo's Bruce Gradkowski is not the towering read and deliver pocket passer that Pinegar is. He does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility. He was not as overwhelmingly effective as Pinegar, but showed playmaking ability. Texas A&M's Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB. His short and intermediate throws seem way too flat, but he does have a nice deep ball. At the very best, I see him as eventually being Michael Vick with most of the speed but much less pure escapability - the line drive style passes that McNeal delivers reminds me most of Vick.

Alabama State's Tarvaris Jackson passes the eye test and displays all the raw materials that make a good QB at the next level. His throws were just as erratic on Wednesday as they were on Monday. He did make one of the sickest plays of the day on a 40 yard bomb to Marques Colston on the run that looked effortless. A project for sure, but an intriguing one. John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game. UCLA's Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say about him based on what I saw this week. He was off as much as he was on, which seemed even more underwhelming on the heels of Pinegar's show. Brett Basanez just flat out struggled. I wish I could think of something optimistic to say about him, but I can't. You would have never thought this was the same guy that was so creative and heroic at Northwestern this season.

RBs - De'Arrius Howard continued to leave me shaking my head, breaking through to the second and third level of the defense routinely. He also showed decent receiving skills, which is a bonus when they come in a 6'0" 236 package with good speed. He often outran LBs to the edge and went through arm tackles without slowing down at all. Believe me, you would have never guessed Howard was a backup at Arkansas based on his running on Monday and Wednesday. Leon Washington of Florida State also really jumped out at me as very solid NFL material. His routes were tight and very full of intention, like a more veteran player, and his hands were almost impeccable. He showed decent drive for a little (but rock solid) guy on his runs, breaking some arm tackles. Taurean Henderson continued to make jaw-dropping moves in the passing drills and showed very quick cuts running inside. The improvement between the tackles was noticeable to me between Monday and Wednesday. Henderson proved to me that he was not just a product of Texas Tech's gimmicky system.

Nebraska's Cory Ross continued to look like the kind of guy who could stick. He seemed like a more powerful Quentin Griffin, and really impressed me with his receiving skills. He's a very determined runner and he knows how to use his low center of gravity to go through the hole like a pinball. DonTrell Moore just did not display the shiftiness that he did during the year at New Mexico. Moore seemed very small and sometimes got swallowed up by defensive lineman. He still looked like a natural runner, just not a very effective one. Wali Lundy has a powerful lower body and seems to do best between the tackles. What stood out the most to me about his was that he seemed hesitant and slow in his cuts and decisions and showed little explosiveness. He did little to distinguish himself this week, coming off a disappointing year at Virginia.

WRs - BYU's Todd Watkins made some huge plays and really seemed to be harnessing his track speed to get behind the DB. His stock is on the rise. Wisconsin's Brandon Williams showed great physicality both in fighting off jams at the line and staying on his routes. He didn't repeat his standout performance from Tuesday, but he had some inspired plays, especially one on Justin Wyatt that really got Williams talking. I see him as a Santana Moss/Steve Smith type without the 5th gear if he can be consistent. Jonathan Orr, the other half of the dynamic Badger WR duo, sometimes made the easy play look hard, sometimes made the hard play look easy. He also put himself in position to make eye-popping plays, only to fail to finish the deal. Still, of all the WRs I saw this week, Orr was the one that stuck with me the most. His top plays were transcedent and seemed like the kind of athletic talent that could be special with the right coaching. When I talked to him Monday, he seemed like a real humble kid and I expect him to be coachable. His agent told me that he's working out with Gradkowski and running electronically timed 40's in the high 4.3s. That will get the NFL's attention if he can do it at the combine.

Colorado State's David Anderson and Oregon State's Mike Hass looked like the kind of WR that become their QBs favorite target on 3rd down. They ran great routes, played very physical, and always came down with the ball. They are not gamebreakers, but their consistency will be a valuable asset to whatever team they land on. Anderson is the more athletic of the two and his game may translate better in the pros. Greg Jennings was solid but the explosiveness he routinely showed at Western Michigan was just not there. Jeff Webb is going to get a look because of his size, but his consistency was lacking. The San Diego State product did show more speed than I expected. Marques Colston of Hofstra left me with a similar feeling as Tarvaris Jackson. Raw as a side of beef, but the makings of an NFL player are there. Colston is a big WR who seemed slow and sometimes got pushed around. John Murphy told me that Colston got a last second invite when Maurice Stovall decided to go to the Senior Bowl, and that he was in combine shape (212 lbs) and not at his playing weight (220 lbs), implying that we hadn't seen the best of Colston. He was very impressed with Colston's ability to use his frame to shield the DB. He came this close to comparing his to Terrell Owens sans attitude, transitioning from talking about Colston to saying "at the same point in his career, Terrell Owens was in this game".Jason Carter of Texas A&M looks like a track guy at WR, using his raw speed to make big plays, but needing work on all the finer points of the WR craft. Western Ontario's Andy Fantuz was a disappointment and I walked away feeling like he is not going to make it in the NFL. He was physically owned way too easily. Murphy said that he's not strong enough to be a TE/H-back type and seemed down on his NFL prospects. He did say Fantuz is training like he wants to make it in the NFL.

TEs - I'm convinced that Texas's David Thomas will be a QBs security blanket in the NFL. He catches everything and runs very solid routes, in addition to being hard to bring down with the way drives his hips through hits and while turning upfield. He is too small to be a true "end of the line" TE, but he can be excellent H-back, a la Chris Cooley. He's not quite the athlete to rip the seams like Cooley, but he can be as prolific in the short range stuff. Tim Day was showing soft hands and fluid routes again on Wednesday. He also knew how to exploit his height advantage against LBs. The Oregon product has the look of a credible receiving threat at TE in the pros. Cooper Wallace showed some good moves off the line and tenacity in staying his routes, but sometimes got trouble bringing the ball in. His agent said he is slimming down and showing more athleticism than he did at Auburn, but the dropoff from Day and Thomas to Wallace as a target in the passing game was large.

Offensive Line- LSU's Andrew Whitworth looked as solid and consistent as always and played left tackle. Kevin Boothe did not have a good week after dominating the Ivy League at Cornell. He got pushed around and seemed overmatched. I did notice that Boothe had good agility while pulling. He'll be a project, but Murphy said he's an interesting player if he can get stronger. Ohio State's Rob Sims, North Dakota's Chris Kuper, and Louisville's Jason Spitz all showed poweful lower bodies and seemed like road grader types. Murphy swore that Sims could play tackle in the NFL. He also said Spitz's verasatility will be valued at the next level. John also singled out South Carolina's Jabari Levey, who played left tackle, saying "it's there, the question is whether it will switch on". Washington's Joe Toledo had the ideal frame you look for in a tackle, but clearly has a long way to go before he realizes his potential.

Defensive Line - It was hard to walk away from the East-West shrine practices without noticing Auburn's Tommy Jackson. He reminded me greatly of Warren Sapp with consistent burst and penetration and endless trash talking. When I asked Murphy who impressed him the most this week, the first name out of his mouth was Tommy Jackson's. Texas A&M's Johnny Jolly got the consistent upfield push that NFL teams value so much. Murphy noted his excellence in the one on one drills. Eric Henderson was a terror on the edge and he only improved his stock this week. The Georgia Tech product's rushing ability will be coveted on draft day. James Wyche had a great first step at times, and got to the QB more than once on Wednesday. I see him having potential with his long frame (think very poor man's Jason Taylor, Javon Kearse), but it could just be that he's from my alma mater, Syracuse. Murphy said he thought Wyche was too tall and that his lower body was lacking. USC's Frostee Rucker has more than the best name in the draft. Rucker consistently pushed his blocker upfield and generally disrupted everything on his side of the field. Purdue's Rob Ninkovich also showed good edge rushing ability and great pursuit down the line. He looks like he'd fit perfectly in a 3-4 OLB slot, which is what the Browns run - who coincidentally talked to Ninkovich for a while after Monday's practice.

LBs - UCLA's Justin London was extremely aggressive in both run and pass defense in the middle. He sometimes got beat because he was too impatient in coverage, but also showed the ability to turn that aggression into big plays. Oliver Hoyte showed some skills getting the jam in coverage and was a big time hitter. John Murphy excitably told me that the NC State LB had lost 10-15 pounds already and was very serious in his preparation. Brandon Hoyte was noticeably making plays all over the field. Murphy had as glowing a review of the Notre Dame captain as any player, saying that the draft is "not for him" because of less than impressive measureables, but that he'll stick on a team that values his top notch intangibles, such as the Patriots, and start in a few years. He also noted the athleticism of James Anderson, the outside linebacker from Virginia Tech. Keith Ellison and Trent Bray, the Oregon State linebacker duo, both showed good athletic ability, particularly Ellison in coverage. Stanford's Jon Alston almost looked like a safety in coverage on Leon Washington when Washington tried to take him deep, one of the plays that made the biggest impression on me all day. Northwestern's Tim McGarigle struggled in coverage badly. Arizona State's Jamar Williams was sidelined with an injury.

DBs - Maryland corner Gerrick McPhearson, maybe the best athletic specimen at the game, was sidelined with a leg injury early. McPhearson seemed devastated when sitting with the medical staff. He is CUT, and looks the part of a guy that can reportedly run in the 4.2s. John Murphy said that he had showed the best hands of any DBs this week. Justin Wyatt was standing out with his extremely physical play all day. The USC corner was generally in the face of the WR on every route, but he also made some plays that would definitely be flagged in the NFL. He definitely improved his stock this week. Everytime I watched Ohio's Dion Byrum, the cornerback was getting beat in coverage. Texas A&M's Jaxson Appel did not seem athletic enough to really make it at the next level, but his teammates gave him one of the biggest cheers of the day when he broke up a pass. I see him as a special teamer/marginal backup safety in the NFL. Safety Josh Powell stood out, but not always for good reasons. The San Jose State product was either making big hits and INTs, or getting beaten badly. Saving perhaps the best for last, Danieal Manning from Abilene Christian made the biggest statement of any small school player this week. John Murphy was gushing about Manning, saying that he would have started over a Bullocks at safety if he had stayed at Nebraska and to keep an eye on his return ability on Saturday.

There was much less talking between team scouts and players after this practice, I only noticed four talks:

New Orleans - Miami OLB Rocky McIntosh

Oakland - Bruce Gradkowski

San Diego - TCU OT Michael Toudouze

Carolina - Andy Fantuz

I did catch a woman from Merrill Lynch approaching players about whether they had a financial advisor, which was a bizarre juxtaposition to the all out war these guys had just been part of out on the field, leaving vomit on the turf in their wake. It was a sobering reminder of the reality that millions of dollars had probably shifted around based on these players' performance on a few dozen plays. It makes the batting average of hits and misses in the draft more understandable as the event's very nature is to blow everything the players do out of proportion. I know I succumbed to that temptation in the writing of this article. I hope it sheds some light on the players you'll see at the Alamodome on Saturday at 3 (ESPN2). I'll be back with Marc Faletti (who sadly had to work Wednesday) for one last report from the game early next week.

 
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Hey Bloom,Can you get into a little more detail on DonTrell Moore? I had heard that he looked smallish there, but had excellent moves and was looking great for someone 1 year removed from a blown out knee.

 
Hey Bloom,

Can you get into a little more detail on DonTrell Moore? I had heard that he looked smallish there, but had excellent moves and was looking great for someone 1 year removed from a blown out knee.
Moore has the vision and moves of a natural runner, but I was discouraged by how easily he went down on first contact. He didnt generate the power of other smurfy RBs at the game - Cory Ross and Leon Washington. He also was solid in receiving, but did not have the wow factor with his routes and hands that Taurean Henderson and Washington had. Its hard to project him as a feature back, and if i was looking for a versatile back, i would probably put him behind Washington and Henderson.I spent 6 years as a kid in NM, and really root for any Lobos to make it at the next level. I wanted to come back with a glowing report on Moore, but he was no higher than the 5th best RB at the practices. He does have some latent upside with a year left in his ACL recovery, and I tend to give any guy that works as hard as he does the benefit of the doubt. Ill still be looking to land him in my dynasty rookie drafts, but in the 30s instead of the 20s.

 
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Hey Bloom,

Can you get into a little more detail on DonTrell Moore? I had heard that he looked smallish there, but had excellent moves and was looking great for someone 1 year removed from a blown out knee.
Moore has the vision and moves of a natural runner, but I was discouraged by how easily he went down on first contact. He didnt generate the power of other smurfy RBs at the game - Cory Ross and Leon Washington. He also was solid in receiving, but did not have the wow factor with his routes and hands that Taurean Henderson and Washington had. Its hard to project him as a feature back, and if i was looking for a versatile back, i would probably put him behind Washington and Henderson.I spent 6 years as a kid in NM, and really root for any Lobos to make it at the next level. I wanted to come back with a glowing report on Moore, but he was no higher than the 5th best RB at the practices. He does have some latent upside with a year left in his ACL recovery, and I tend to give any guy that works as hard as he does the benefit of the doubt. Ill still be looking to land him in my dynasty rookie drafts, but in the 30s instead of the 20s.
Thanks man. I'm really rooting for the kid, but I know what you mean about going down at first contact. That is the death-knell for potential NFL running backs. If you don't have the wiggle to get out of those arm tackles and run in tight spaces, you're not going to make it in the NFL. I'll have to watch some more video of him and check out the game, but I may have to move him down my board as well. :( Thanks!

 
You've got De'Arrius Howard on my mind. I've seen an estimated 40 time of 4.54 - sound accurate?I am befuddled as to how this guy got passed up as the lead back 4 times in his college career with all the size and skill he possesses? (Then again, how did Willie Parker not start for his college team?) I have seen Howard projected as a UFA - do you think his performance this week has changed that, and where do you see him being taken?You KNOW why I'm asking this question.... :)

 
You've got De'Arrius Howard on my mind. I've seen an estimated 40 time of 4.54 - sound accurate?

I am befuddled as to how this guy got passed up as the lead back 4 times in his college career with all the size and skill he possesses? (Then again, how did Willie Parker not start for his college team?) I have seen Howard projected as a UFA - do you think his performance this week has changed that, and where do you see him being taken?

You KNOW why I'm asking this question.... :)
Oh I was thinking Steelers right away when I saw him. 40 time sounds accurate to me. Like I said earlier this week, Howard reminded me of Burner Turner, but he doesnt have the breakaway speed Turner has.I see no way he didn't enhance his standing this week. From a pure rushing standpoint he was clearly the most impressive back on Monday and Wednesday, although one site reported that he was back to his non-chalant ways on Tuesday. Probably what kept him from being a starter for the Razorbacks. You also have to keep in mind that Cedric Cobbs was there for his first two years, Matt Jones was the main man last year, and this year I'm told Darren McFadden really emerged, although I didnt get to see much of Arkansas at all, so im going on second hand reports.

 
Le Kevin Smith? You mentioned him as a possible good fit for a 3-4 defense in an earlier thread. Any new thoughts on him?

 
Le Kevin Smith? You mentioned him as a possible good fit for a 3-4 defense in an earlier thread. Any new thoughts on him?
didnt jump out at me during any plays on wednesday, but like Jolly and Rucker, he looks like a D lineman that will create consistent upfield push.
 
Cofield really didn't impress at all, huh? He was a guy I thought might be a later-round steal for the Steelers, since they missed the boat on Chris Canty last year, despite our having taken him in one of the mocks. :)

 
Cofield really didn't impress at all, huh? He was a guy I thought might be a later-round steal for the Steelers, since they missed the boat on Chris Canty last year, despite our having taken him in one of the mocks. :)
Honestly, I didnt get to spend nearly enough time scouting the lineman. I cant say he didn't impress, but the few drills/plays I wanted, nothing he did stood out.
 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week. Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility. Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB. Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game. Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids. I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago. Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week.

Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility.

Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB.

Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game.

Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say

Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids.

I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago.

Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
of the 6: Jackson, followed by Gradkowski, but Jackson could be a bust, and Gradkowski looks like a solid backup at worst.
 
:blackdot: so I can go back and see what was said about who my Bengals get :)Thanks for the hard work (though it sounds like it was fun hard work :) )-QG
 
I read that Scott Studwell was attending this. Did you see him and/or see if he was talking to any players? TIA.

 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week.

Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility.

Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB.

Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game.

Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say

Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids.

I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago.

Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
of the 6: Jackson, followed by Gradkowski, but Jackson could be a bust, and Gradkowski looks like a solid backup at worst.
Makes sense. So a team set for now at QB might be smart to try developing Jackson, and a team who may need help faster might be better off with Gradkowski.Same question for the RBs. It's the 4th round and you have to choose one. To better judge your opinion. You have to choose one, but you don't know what NFL team you're picking for. I expect the answer to be Howard, and I am really intrigued by your reports.

 
Thanks for the updates on Fantuz - would not get them anywhere else!I think if he does not explode in this weekend's game - he will be a signed free agent - and maybe a practise squad guy if he is lucky.

 
I would be interested to know whom the Cleveland Browns were talking to or watching.
Rob Ninkovich, DE, Purdue and Jabari Levey, OT ,south carolina were the guys that they talked to the most
 
Out of the LB's do you see any of those guys being NFL ready - ability to step in and play some time during their rookie years?

Great stuff Bloom.
Justin London really jumped out at me as the most NFL ready of the LBs, but thats just my opinion.
 
Great work Bloom. Really enjoyed reading it.

Can you tell me who the Dolphins are looking at or speaking to?
the dolphins, like most teams, did not tip their hand on who they were interested in. most scouts sat in the stands and took notes, and anytime marc or I tried to do a little spywork, they clammed up (these guys have mastered the whisper voice) and hid their notes.
 
Great work Bloom. Really enjoyed  reading it.

Can you tell me who the Dolphins are looking at or speaking to?
the dolphins, like most teams, did not tip their hand on who they were interested in. most scouts sat in the stands and took notes, and anytime marc or I tried to do a little spywork, they clammed up (these guys have mastered the whisper voice) and hid their notes.
You should get one of those supersonic hearing things from a spy site.
 
You should get one of those supersonic hearing things from a spy site.
I enjoy watching Bloomie handle most of the message board stuff, but I gotta jump in on this one. What's incredible about NFL scouts is the casual, second-nature approach they have to keeping info secret. For example, both Bloom and I experienced the bizarre phenomenon of sneaking a peek at scout's notes while his back was to us and having him immediately sense eyes on his page and pulling the notes out of view. Scary.The worst is when they're talking, though. It's like they have a secret code language to obscure any names that might be mentioned. I was standing right next to a Bills scout talking to an Eagles scout, and the conversation went something like this:Eagles: How's [bzzh hwhhhszh]?Bills: He's starting to look like all those other Nebraska guys, you know? Eagles: You guys made up your minds yet?Bills: Nah. How about [zhbzh wzzhahb]? You guy's aren't really going to pay him the 6 million, are you?Huh? Which guy for 6 mil? What guy might be a bust? Or was the Nberaska thing a compliment? Augh. How could I hear every word of that but not the names? The answer is that all the scouts have perfected low talking when it counts. Very impressive and frustrating.
 
LOL

I'm surprised they wore enough team gear for you to tell their affiliation. :loco:
What's funny is that they all have an unofficial uni: team windbreaker, team hat, shiny workout pants, sneaks. Some wore shades, and that was about it. Oh, and Mean Joe Greene wore jeans. :) We knew who everyone was loud and clear, though,a nd they all seemed to know each other anyway.The only guy who was trying to downplay his appearance was the Eagles guy, actually. He didn't wear the team warmup and instead had a generic one on. After about 12 passes by him, I was finally able to read his access badge and "Philadelphia Eagles."

 
LOL

I'm surprised they wore enough team gear for you to tell their affiliation.  :loco:
What's funny is that they all have an unofficial uni: team windbreaker, team hat, shiny workout pants, sneaks. Some wore shades, and that was about it. Oh, and Mean Joe Greene wore jeans. :) We knew who everyone was loud and clear, though,a nd they all seemed to know each other anyway.The only guy who was trying to downplay his appearance was the Eagles guy, actually. He didn't wear the team warmup and instead had a generic one on. After about 12 passes by him, I was finally able to read his access badge and "Philadelphia Eagles."
Something tells me Mean Joe Greene didn't really need any ID for you to determine who he was. :football:
 
Something tells me Mean Joe Greene didn't really need any ID for you to determine who he was.
First, great work guys. Great write-up and even a better job getting access to practice. D. Thomas of UT is one hell of a football player. Those playing in dynasty formats would be wise to target him after the other top prospects are selected. That kid gets it, as well as having WR type hands. What's sad is that many of the kids had no idea who Mean Joe Greene is/was. Alvin Harper, E.J. Junior and a few other decent to average pros worked the practices all week. The practices are working interviews for the kids and NFL alum are brought in to set the tone for practices; speak to the kids and provide a Real Life in the NFL Crash Course 101 to the participants, as well as handle general Q&A.

Despite all the references to a player's performance in a post season bowl or all star game that you will hear between now and April, such as Player A had a great (Blank) Bowl and has improved his draft status tremendously, these practices and informal/immediately after practice interviews are a larger determining factor in a player's draft status.

The worst is when they're talking, though. It's like they have a secret code language to obscure any names that might be mentioned. I was standing right next to a Bills scout talking to an Eagles scout, and the conversation went something like this:
Yes, there is and good luck getting any real information from a scout at one of those events. You'all did a great job with this but what more should be expected from a Texan.

 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week.

Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility.

Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB.

Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game.

Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say

Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids.

I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago.

Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
Where you from?
 
:thumbup: Great work, enjoy the posts here and the blog.Any word on who the 49ers were looking at / talking to?
 
First off, I like the writing style. Very nice. QBs- Fresno QBs, I think Hill does a good job w/ Qbs. Seems all come out sounding the same. Toledo QB - many will say something about the conference :o and their success rate.McNeal - remember, I thought he'd stay at QB, and be drafted. I think he has better chances than some of the 2nd-3rd rounders. He has been the victim of many coaches and OCs. He made two frauds get drafted high by the Pack. Never have been high on Basanez or Olsen. Bith are decent college QBs, but do not have "it" or are athletic enought o make up for their mistakes.I like Henderson as a KFaulk type of guy. I do not see Ross making it. I just do not think he is either explosive or powerful, and NFL RBs are both. I do not see any of these guys as solid, RBs in the NFL. I cannot see any of these guys carrying the mail. Maybe you are right on Howard. But, of the guys I have watched, I did not see a 300-carry RB.Could Williams be too small at 175 to get off of the line in the NFL? Could Watkins=Lelie? Speed and potential, but ....I, too, like Sloan. Can he be a decent fantasy TE?You and I agreed a couple of weeks ago on Appel. I do not like him at all.Once again, great job. This will help many watch the game in a different light tomorrow. You have a good writing style, too. Keep it up.

 
Bloom, I heard there was a fight and Andrew Whitworth got his knee rolled trying to break it up. Also heard in doing so he sprained his MCL and won't play in the game. Any truth to this?

 
Bloom, I heard there was a fight and Andrew Whitworth got his knee rolled trying to break it up. Also heard in doing so he sprained his MCL and won't play in the game. Any truth to this?
IM not saying it didnt happen, but I didnt hear about it, and havent seen it reported anywhere. There was definitely a decent amount of fights between linemen during the practices - Georgia DT Kedric Golston and Temple DT Antwon Burton were usually in the middle of them.
 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week.

Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility.

Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB.

Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game.

Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say

Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids.

I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago.

Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
of the 6: Jackson, followed by Gradkowski, but Jackson could be a bust, and Gradkowski looks like a solid backup at worst.
Makes sense. So a team set for now at QB might be smart to try developing Jackson, and a team who may need help faster might be better off with Gradkowski.Same question for the RBs. It's the 4th round and you have to choose one. To better judge your opinion. You have to choose one, but you don't know what NFL team you're picking for. I expect the answer to be Howard, and I am really intrigued by your reports.
based strictly on what i saw this week - toss up between Howard, Washington, and Henderson - Howard is the best chain mover in the game, no doubt about it. Washington and Henderson are both excellent change of pace/dual threat RBs. One thing I didnt get to see at all was blitz pickup, which could make the difference as to which RB is best overall. If Henderson or Washington are decent in blitz pickup, that would really push them over the top.
 
QBs - Paul Pinegar of Fresno State was the standout QB of the day and the week.

Bruce Gradkowski does display the leadership qualities that are becoming routine in the pedigree of MAC QBs and a scrappy improvising style at QB that uses his mobility.

Reggie McNeal definitely has the look of an athlete that could make an impact at QB.

Tarvaris Jackson John Murphy told me that Jackson had the best tools of any QB at the game.

Drew Olsen throws a pretty ball, sure, but that's about the only good thing I can say

Brett Basanez just flat out struggled.
The order you discussed the qbs seems like the way you would rank them. But, I'm wondering if Jackson's "best tools" and McNeal's potential to wreak havoc shouldn't slide them ahead of Gradkowski for NFL purposes. Better stated. Gradkowski reminded me very much of Drew Olson. I watched Bruce outduel Omar Jacobs this year, but it was clear Jacobs had the big league talent where Gradkowski was just a fired up leader of college kids.

I've never seen Reggie McNeal play, but I know he has some big supporters who swear he has a much better passing game than Vick (to go with the 4.3 speed). He also has naysayers that are sure WR is in his furture. You know I saw the potential in Jackson awhile ago.

Question? You can't take Pinegar. Which QB do you draft to develop?
of the 6: Jackson, followed by Gradkowski, but Jackson could be a bust, and Gradkowski looks like a solid backup at worst.
Makes sense. So a team set for now at QB might be smart to try developing Jackson, and a team who may need help faster might be better off with Gradkowski.Same question for the RBs. It's the 4th round and you have to choose one. To better judge your opinion. You have to choose one, but you don't know what NFL team you're picking for. I expect the answer to be Howard, and I am really intrigued by your reports.
based strictly on what i saw this week - toss up between Howard, Washington, and Henderson - Howard is the best chain mover in the game, no doubt about it. Washington and Henderson are both excellent change of pace/dual threat RBs. One thing I didnt get to see at all was blitz pickup, which could make the difference as to which RB is best overall. If Henderson or Washington are decent in blitz pickup, that would really push them over the top.
Someone might get a huge steal in Leon Washington. It's hard to think of a player who was more underutilized. I think he was a late first round guy before the year started.....he has boatloads of talent. I just hope he is big enough, he seems sturdy but is smallish.
 
Hey Bloom,I trust your reporting on these matters more than the "professional journalists" who have also been covering the Shrine practices. Everyone seems limited by how much they actually observed. You and Marc readily admit to this limit. No one has observed everything. Anyway, GBN posted this report from Inside The League. ITL is very sharp by the way. There isn't much detail to that report, but they don't seem nearly as impressed with Orr as you. In general, they seem a little negative on the players they discuss. The Senior Bowl is the primary all-star gig, and maybe ITL is guarded in their praise from years of hyping the Senior Bowl prospects. Perhaps, like many, they underestimate the depth of this draft and don't realize there are some fine future pros playing in the Shriner and the Hula Bowl this weekend. Or perhaps, you being new to scouting situations like this made you a little more optimistic about what you saw?Jim Vertuno is covering the game for the AP, this is his report. There isn't much to it either, which just speaks to what a great job you guys did, but he quotes Gil Brandt on Reggie McNeal:

"He just looks good," Brandt said. "He looked accurate, threw the ball well, moved well. I think he was the biggest surprise there coming off this year, which was not the best."
Vertuno claims no player has likely increased his stock more than McNeal (whose name he spells wrong). Which made me wonder about us running-QB-snake-bitten by-Vick fantasy guys. Do you have a natural inclination to prefer the prototypical QB (Pinegar) over the Vick-like McNeal? Anyway, trying to find alternative coverage to yours on the days you missed just made me realize what great work you (both) did down there. :thumbup: andThoughts on the above?
 
Hey Bloom,

I trust your reporting on these matters more than the "professional journalists" who have also been covering the Shrine practices. Everyone seems limited by how much they actually observed. You and Marc readily admit to this limit. No one has observed everything.

Anyway, GBN posted this report from Inside The League. ITL is very sharp by the way. There isn't much detail to that report, but they don't seem nearly as impressed with Orr as you. In general, they seem a little negative on the players they discuss. The Senior Bowl is the primary all-star gig, and maybe ITL is guarded in their praise from years of hyping the Senior Bowl prospects. Perhaps, like many, they underestimate the depth of this draft and don't realize there are some fine future pros playing in the Shriner and the Hula Bowl this weekend. Or perhaps, you being new to scouting situations like this made you a little more optimistic about what you saw?

Jim Vertuno is covering the game for the AP, this is his report. There isn't much to it either, which just speaks to what a great job you guys did, but he quotes Gil Brandt on Reggie McNeal:

"He just looks good," Brandt said. "He looked accurate, threw the ball well, moved well. I think he was the biggest surprise there coming off this year, which was not the best."
Vertuno claims no player has likely increased his stock more than McNeal (whose name he spells wrong). Which made me wonder about us running-QB-snake-bitten by-Vick fantasy guys. Do you have a natural inclination to prefer the prototypical QB (Pinegar) over the Vick-like McNeal? Anyway, trying to find alternative coverage to yours on the days you missed just made me realize what great work you (both) did down there.

:thumbup: and

Thoughts on the above?
Hey CC,I know you were addressing Bloom, but I hope you won't mind if I jump in, too. ;)

First off, thanks for the kind words. You're right, we definitely don't pretend to have all the answers or see everything; we just try to articulate what we see and learn to the best of our ability. Bloom also heard some folks who were down on Orr due to the inconsistency he mentioned in his NFL Day post, but call us suckers, we love his explosive potential. And on Monday, he really was impressive from start to finish. Maybe I'm still hung up on that.

As for McNeal, Bloom can attest to the fact that I've been in his ear all year about the guy as a future NFL QB, so there's no running-QB bias on our sideline. That said, I have to agree that Pinegar's the only Shrine QB that's really impressed me with the whole package. Reggie's been okay, especially downfield, but he doesn't have the touch of Gradkowski or the raw zip of Jackson. He's a leader, though, and fiery when it counts. He has solid mechanics and seems able to check down his receivers to some extent. Flat throws and the occasional ugly miss bother me, though.

Bottom line: would I take him at some point? You bet. McNeal's speed and the glimmer of what it takes to play QB would make me fired up to get him with the right QB coach. I think he's a great 3rd-4th round gamble, and that's coming from a UT alum.

 
Hey Bloom,

I trust your reporting on these matters more than the "professional journalists" who have also been covering the Shrine practices. Everyone seems limited by how much they actually observed. You and Marc readily admit to this limit. No one has observed everything.

Anyway, GBN posted this report from Inside The League. ITL is very sharp by the way. There isn't much detail to that report, but they don't seem nearly as impressed with Orr as you. In general, they seem a little negative on the players they discuss. The Senior Bowl is the primary all-star gig, and maybe ITL is guarded in their praise from years of hyping the Senior Bowl prospects. Perhaps, like many, they underestimate the depth of this draft and don't realize there are some fine future pros playing in the Shriner and the Hula Bowl this weekend. Or perhaps, you being new to scouting situations like this made you a little more optimistic about what you saw?

Jim Vertuno is covering the game for the AP, this is his report. There isn't much to it either, which just speaks to what a great job you guys did, but he quotes Gil Brandt on Reggie McNeal:

"He just looks good," Brandt said. "He looked accurate, threw the ball well, moved well. I think he was the biggest surprise there coming off this year, which was not the best."
Vertuno claims no player has likely increased his stock more than McNeal (whose name he spells wrong). Which made me wonder about us running-QB-snake-bitten by-Vick fantasy guys. Do you have a natural inclination to prefer the prototypical QB (Pinegar) over the Vick-like McNeal? Anyway, trying to find alternative coverage to yours on the days you missed just made me realize what great work you (both) did down there.

:thumbup: and

Thoughts on the above?
On Orr: I generally agree with the criticisms, he just didnt finish plays - that being said, he's got the athleticism to get separation and the vertical and body control to get into position to make catches many WRs couldnt even think of getting to. I think with good coaching the finishing will come. Another guy I would compare him to on a real broad level is Mark Bradley.I will defintely admit to being too optimistic based on what I saw this week. One problem I have is that I will always be a fan at heart, and get caught up with enthusiasm any time i see something that makes me go "wow". another problem is that the shriner game, while full of NFL prospects, generally has the second tier and lower guys, so a guy standing out here doesnt mean as much as it means at the senior bowl. All in all, its a very fair criticism - since this is really my first legitimate writing gig, I am very open to any and all feedback.

I can see McNeal increasing his stock when you think of his performance this week in context of the terrible year he had - However, being a big XII watcher, I already knew he had the physical tools to get the NFL interested. He didnt show me anything above and beyond what he showed during his Big XII career this week. I definitely have a natural inclination to favor the pure passers over the athletes at QB. running ability for a QB is very overrated in the NFL. Escapability and pocket awareness is much more important in my eyes. McNeal may have incredible pure speed for a QB (4.3s), but I dont think he has nearly the same quality of moves and elusiveness to escape rushers of a guy like Vick, and he's not nearly big or strong enough to shrug off rushers like a Roethlisberger/Culpepper.

 
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And just to add... it's game day baby! We leave the ATX in 30 minutes... We'll be in the press box, so all you fellow draftniks check it out on the ocho -- err, the deuce so we can all break it down afterwards.EDIT: ...and apparently Bloom does have a bias. *sniff* I don't know you anymore, man!

 
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