EW Shrine Game: Reggie McNeal Point/Counterpoint (1 Viewer)

Point/Counterpoint on Reggie McNeal

by Marc Faletti and Sigmund Bloom

After his game-winning MVP performance on Saturday, Reggie McNeal drew most of the national media attention from the East-West Shrine Game. Suddenly, “scouts” were coming out of the woodwork to predict glorious things for McNeal, including some who claimed Reggie would out-produce Vince Young at the next level. Of course, for those who watched the Aggies collapse this year, one game can’t excuse a season full of disappointments. Then again, until this year, the future looked rather bright for McNeal, so perhaps a single tough season shouldn’t overshadow a promising career.

The McNeal issue is so layered we couldn’t agree on where we stand on him. We present to you the extreme case on both sides; feel free to keep score at home. Let’s get ready to rumble.

Point: Reggie McNeal will be a starting NFL QB in 3 years.

A lot of eyes were opened after his showing in the Shrine Game. Doubters will point to McNeal working with coaches and a WR from his alma mater as the explanation for his brilliance on Saturday. Of course, despite a senior year in which his whole team quit on Franchione, any astute observer of the Big XII over the years should know Reggie McNeal has what it takes to succeed at the NFL level. He brings several elite tools to the table.

Arm strength: check. McNeal’s 60 yard bomb to Jason Carter hit him in full stride, and our notes on practices are filled with compliments about his deep throws.

Ability to progress through reads: check. After the first few drives, he settled into the pocket and delivered crucial balls to a couple second options (including Carter) and even a third at least once.

Taking snaps from center: check. McNeal spent plenty of time under center, unlike a certain Mr. Young that’s now taking flak for this glaring hole in his game.

Touch and placement: check. For example, his 23-yard TD throw to Mike Hass dropped gently right into the back of the endzone, and even if he had been well-covered, no one but Hass could have gotten to the ball.

Escapability: check. McNeal might not make a lot of guys miss, but his sub-4.4 speed gets him right to the sideline or across the imaginary yellow line for an easy first down when a play falls apart.

Accuracy: che- er, well, okay. McNeal’s intermediate accuracy is a work in progess.

Size: He’s 6’2”, and many NFL QBs have been smaller.

McNeal isn’t perfect, but he’s got the cannon, hooves, and grey matter for the game. That’s more than enough for me to take him in the 2nd and put him with a great QB coach for a year or two. Any team willing to so will be greatly rewarded in year 3.

Counterpoint: Reggie McNeal will not be a starting NFL QB in 3 years.

There’s no doubt that Reggie McNeal was the most impressive QB, if not player, in the East West Shrine Game. However, his performance far from convinced me that he is starting QB material in the NFL. I will not dispute Reggie’s arm strength, and his deep ball is definitely among the prettiest of any QB in the whole draft. However, Reggie is still very erratic on the short and intermediate throws. They look more like line drives than touch passes. While this shows his considerable arm strength, it also shows something that needs major correction. A QB can not subsist on a deep ball alone, and Reggie’s career accuracy being below 55% in college is troubling.

Reggie’s speed is impressive, no doubt about it. But what I saw on Saturday was a guy that goes quickly through his reads and then decides to run, an approach that may not translate to the NFL. If the defenses know that Reggie is running as soon as he breaks the pocket, his threat on the ground is greatly diminished. The few times he did look downfield when he broke the pocket, he was either spooked by pursuit coming right at him or threw a wobbly pass through traffic. He only made one pass rusher miss, and that was not-so-athletic Ohio St. ILB Anthony Schlegel. Michael Vick can get away with being a mostly run first QB because he’s got possibly the best elusiveness of anyone in the NFL. McNeal’s elusiveness is average at best for a running QB, and he’s not strong or bulky enough to shrug off rushers like a Roethlisberger or Culpepper. When he faced the kind of pressure he’ll see in the NFL on Saturday, he was forced to throw the ball away.

I am also agnostic on Reggie’s ability to read defenses; nothing I saw on Saturday changed that. I see an NFL deep ball and NFL speed, but everywhere else, I see work to do.

The most optimistic projection I can give Reggie is Kordell Stewart, but Kordell was more accurate and successful in college. Let’s see, if everything works out for Reggie, he *might* be Kordell. Meanwhile, QB converts to WR are flourishing… what tools give him a better chance to succeed – His speed and deep ball at QB, or his speed and height at WR? Now, I could be wrong, Reggie just might be starting at QB for a foolish team in 3 years (see: Quincy Carter), but when that team comes to their senses, he’ll be moved to WR.

We would love to hear anyone with a strong opinion on Mcneal chime in. He will be one of the most hotly debated QBs in the draft this year.

Reggie lost several of his top WRs to injury this year (Riley, Taylor, and Schroeder), and considering how hard he normally throws, I think that really threw off his timing and confidence. The younger guys that stepped in didn't seem to handle Reggie's throws. I even remember reports of Fran telling him to try to take something off some of his throws. Many Ags will also tell you that Fran did not use him right, and relied on the option too much.I agree that he has been inconsistent, but I think with a good QB coach and a good OL, he can be a starter in the league (especially considering some of the people that start). He is smart, and when he gets into a zone, he is awesome.I would love to see the Texans get him in the 3rd (after skipping on Young). It would be nice to see McNeal in Hou and Young in Tenn for years to come after butting heads in HS and college.[FYI, they would have met at the 5A high school championship in 2001, but Young's Madison High team was beat by Austin Westlake in the semis (they were quarterbacked by Chad Shroeder, who now plays WR for the Ags), and then McNeal's Lufkin squad went on to beat Westlake for the title. Even more amazingly, Courtney Lewis, the Aggie RB, was Young's RB in HS.]

McNeal probably earned a shot with someone to come into TC as a QB despite the counter points. I don't think he will go in the 2nd round, but he will get drafted and stick somewhere.

All I think McNeal managed to accomplish was getting teams to evaluate him as a QB, and not a prospect to be moved to another position. Hes a 2nd day pick, and a mediocre one at that.

I can see McNeal going on the first day, and perhaps the second round, solely because there are only 4 legit QB prospects in this draft (leinart, young, cutler, jacobs). the QBs that go next will be the ones that some team falls in love with. McNeal is exactly the kind of QB that some team will talk themselves into taking earlier than they should because they *have* to have him.

Bloom and I have been talking about McNeal since the Texas game. Here are my thoughts on himros:Great physical specimen at QBThrows a great deep ball Made two frauds of WRs get drafted high by PackProgressed while enduring many coaching (head and oc) changesMakes plays when things break downCons:Not a vocal leader in terms of rallying the troupsSeems to not assert himself when times are tough Sometimes seems lost in reading defenses and making the "right playToughness is sometimes is questionedOverall: I think he will initially make a roster. But, I see him in the mold of Michael Bishop (former Kansas State QB) or Rohan Davey. These guys were good college QBs who could not translate their athletic ability into the pro offense.

Made two frauds of WRs get drafted high by Pack

Click to expand...

??? Murphy almost got his neck broken, but before that, he was doing pretty well.Ferguson was before McNeal's time.

Does he fit as an Eagles backup to McNabb? Not right away, but with a year or so under his belt?

Does he fit as an Eagles backup to McNabb? Not right away, but with a year or so under his belt?

Click to expand...

I would say the Eagles could do worse. As we all know, there are some things Reggie McNeal does very well, and others he needs to improve. But nobody uses a backup/spot starter as well as Andy Reid. He knows how to mask a guy's shortcomings over a few games. And let's face it; no one's game-planning for McNabb's feet anymore. If Reggie had to come in for a few plays, he could really shake up the game.

I was at most of the practices and the game last week. McNeal is an early 2nd day pick and a long-term project as an NFL QB prospect. I like Bloom's assessment that McNeal would be fortunate to become K. Stewart. What happened in practice versus what happened in the game were completely different. McNeal had a great game. He looked ordinary to below average in practice. His bad habits were prevalent. Any good done by his game performance will be diminished by his actions during the week. He had a great game. I will not take that away from the kid but he was facing vanilla defenses minus any type of disguises or advanced schemes, while playing for coaches VERY familiar with his strengths. Do not discount that fact. McNeal was put into a situation to succeed. Physically, he is solid. In terms of mental capacity required to play QB in the NFL I doubt his ability to read, decipher and decide pre and post snap. His physical tools will not be great enough to compensate on Sundays. He got by being a little bigger, faster and stronger against the Big 12 but I do not see that difference being nearly as wide a gap on Sundays. Couple that with his lack of decision making and he becomes average and, perhaps, will be operating at a significant loss versus his competition. Great work Bloom and Giant.

Thanks WhoDat! In researching a defense of McNeal, I might've talked myself out of actually believing in him as a QB. He never even sniffed 60% accuracy, and he really locked on a single target every year. At some level, though, having watched so many of his games, I just see "it" -- a quality I can't describe. Bloom says he thinks it's just his athleticism, but I don't know about that. I'll say this about the Kordell comparisons: Kordell had "it" and lost "it." At one point, he looked like a very promising QB talent, then it all fell apart. He lost confidence, lacked the mental toughness to get it back, and was never the same.I don't think McNeal is mentally weak, though no one can say for sure. Kordell sure didn't seem it coming out of Colorado, did he? But if he isn't weak upstairs, then maybe you get the very best of Kordell. And you know what? That might be good enough to start in this league.Let the boos rain down...

Made two frauds of WRs get drafted high by Pack

Click to expand...

??? Murphy almost got his neck broken, but before that, he was doing pretty well.

Ferguson was before McNeal's time.

Click to expand...

I thought they overlapped. So, you think each has justified their draft pick? I do not think so. I would like your opinion on this.

Thanks WhoDat!

In researching a defense of McNeal, I might've talked myself out of actually believing in him as a QB. He never even sniffed 60% accuracy, and he really locked on a single target every year.

At some level, though, having watched so many of his games, I just see "it" -- a quality I can't describe.

Bloom says he thinks it's just his athleticism, but I don't know about that. I'll say this about the Kordell comparisons: Kordell had "it" and lost "it." At one point, he looked like a very promising QB talent, then it all fell apart. He lost confidence, lacked the mental toughness to get it back, and was never the same.

I don't think McNeal is mentally weak, though no one can say for sure. Kordell sure didn't seem it coming out of Colorado, did he? But if he isn't weak upstairs, then maybe you get the very best of Kordell. And you know what? That might be good enough to start in this league.

Let the boos rain down...

Click to expand...

the very best of kordell could be a top 10-15 QB (see 1997) - the kordell comparison was never meant to be damning - he actually had a solid career at QB, although some of that is because the steelers ask less of their QB than most teams, and cowher seemed wedded to him at times. still, if mcneal's career is even 75% of kordell's, then the team drafting him should be very, very happy.for reference, kordell went in the 2nd (60th overall).

Heh. I applaud any Steelers fan with such a gentle opinion of Kordell. I think most would be significantly, um, harsher.

I did not take the K. Stewart as damning for McNeal. It was a fair contemporary point of reference.

Stewart had a few solid years. Conversely, he was what I like to call a gimmick QB. He had God given speed few ever see at that position. If football players truly evolved, Stewart's speed was his survival/defense mechanism. His speed was his thing...gimmick.

His physical traits to perform the job were freakish. His ability to take all of those physical skills and put them to use were average. His ability to proceed with mental aspects of the game were below average.

College was a playing field that Stewart could exploit with his survial mechanism despite his shortcomings. The NFL quickly evolved to match and surpass Stewart. The league figured him out and shut him down. The flaws in his game could no longer be supported or overcome by his once freakish speed and postional prowess.

McNeal having a career at QB in the NFL that would be similiar to Stewart's would be a HUGE success.

Giant, I see more of the it factor in Young. I pick up what you are putting down, though, but the kid in Austin has a little more than his counterpart in College Station. McNeal has some but not enough of it to hide the holes in his game. The team quit on the coaching staff and to a certain degree McNeal, opinion. QB has to command the huddle and have the respect of his peers. Just playing devil's advocate with that line of thought but chew on it for a while.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness. I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark. No one outside of his team mates would know that one. However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game.

Remember, he is about to become so much slower on Sundays and his competition and the game itself is going to become that much faster, which brings us back to the potential likeness to Slash.

Always happy to hear someone pimp VY, and I certainly see even more of that indescribable quality in him, too. The McNeal drama will be fun to watch unfold in the background of the NFL over the next few years. Of course, once Jerry Jones gets his hands on him, it's probably game over for Reggie.Whoops, did I just spoil part of tomorrow's article? Silly me.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness. I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark. No one outside of his team mates would know that one. However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game.

Click to expand...

I saw this apparent in the UT game this year. Before he was knocked out, he looked "lost". In other games I did not see him as a fiery competitor that many of us expect in a QB. Not quite in the Brooks category, but you get the picture.

Made two frauds of WRs get drafted high by Pack

Click to expand...

??? Murphy almost got his neck broken, but before that, he was doing pretty well.

Ferguson was before McNeal's time.

Click to expand...

I thought they overlapped. So, you think each has justified their draft pick? I do not think so. I would like your opinion on this.

Click to expand...

Tough to call b/c of injuries. I guess Ferguson has been injured so often to I would assume the Pack regrets that pick, but Murphy's injury was a freak one, so the jury still has to be out.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness.  I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark.  No one outside of his team mates would know that one.  However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game. 

Click to expand...

I saw this apparent in the UT game this year. Before he was knocked out, he looked "lost". In other games I did not see him as a fiery competitor that many of us expect in a QB. Not quite in the Brooks category, but you get the picture.

Click to expand...

Strike two, wannabee (I think I see where your name comes from now... Reggie didn't even suit up against Texas.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness.  I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark.  No one outside of his team mates would know that one.  However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game. 

Click to expand...

I saw this apparent in the UT game this year. Before he was knocked out, he looked "lost". In other games I did not see him as a fiery competitor that many of us expect in a QB. Not quite in the Brooks category, but you get the picture.

Click to expand...

Strike two, wannabee (I think I see where your name comes from now... Reggie didn't even suit up against Texas.

Click to expand...

I need to start looking this up instead of going from memory. I was referring to the game before aboainst Oklahoma. This was the game that McNeal left because of injury and McGee came in with intensity. Even the announcers commented on the difference in charisma.I notice how you are quick to point out who played when without saying anything about McNeal. Is this on purpose?

Reggie McNeal is a poor man's Aaron Brooks, and that's not a good thing.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness.  I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark.  No one outside of his team mates would know that one.  However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game. 

Click to expand...

I saw this apparent in the UT game this year. Before he was knocked out, he looked "lost". In other games I did not see him as a fiery competitor that many of us expect in a QB. Not quite in the Brooks category, but you get the picture.

Click to expand...

Strike two, wannabee (I think I see where your name comes from now... Reggie didn't even suit up against Texas.

Click to expand...

I need to start looking this up instead of going from memory. I was referring to the game before aboainst Oklahoma. This was the game that McNeal left because of injury and McGee came in with intensity. Even the announcers commented on the difference in charisma.I notice how you are quick to point out who played when without saying anything about McNeal. Is this on purpose?

Click to expand...

Check out the third post on this thread. I do agree that McGee brought added energy to the team, McNeal is not a vocal leader (Murphy, the GB WR, was the leader of this team last year, and Jason Carter, who played in the Shrine Game, was the leader this year). McGee will likely take that over for the next 2-3 years.

My speaking of McNeal's mental capacity is not questioning his toughness.  I do not know enough about him to make that type of remark.  No one outside of his team mates would know that one.  However, I am remarking I doubt or could see where a scout would be concerned about his intellectual capacity to work an NFL game. 

Click to expand...

I saw this apparent in the UT game this year. Before he was knocked out, he looked "lost". In other games I did not see him as a fiery competitor that many of us expect in a QB. Not quite in the Brooks category, but you get the picture.

Click to expand...

Strike two, wannabee (I think I see where your name comes from now... Reggie didn't even suit up against Texas.

Click to expand...

I need to start looking this up instead of going from memory. I was referring to the game before aboainst Oklahoma. This was the game that McNeal left because of injury and McGee came in with intensity. Even the announcers commented on the difference in charisma.I notice how you are quick to point out who played when without saying anything about McNeal. Is this on purpose?

Click to expand...

Check out the third post on this thread. I do agree that McGee brought added energy to the team, McNeal is not a vocal leader (Murphy, the GB WR, was the leader of this team last year, and Jason Carter, who played in the Shrine Game, was the leader this year). McGee will likely take that over for the next 2-3 years.

Click to expand...

I did. What type of pro QB do you think he will besince you have obviously followed his college career closely?

I agree that he has been inconsistent, but I think with a good QB coach and a good OL, he can be a starter in the league (especially considering some of the people that start). He is smart, and when he gets into a zone, he is awesome.

Click to expand...

I think with some development he could be a good starter in this league. Hopefully he will go somewhere that he can sit behind someone for a couple years and learn. I think he will be a low second round or high third. I know I would much rather have him as my backup QB than most of the backups in the league.