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Player Spotlight: Chris Chambers (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
[SIZE=14pt]2006 Player Spotlight Series[/SIZE]

Over the course of the offseason, we will be evaluating a multitude of players at every fantasy position. One such way we go about that is through the Player Spotlight series. Think of the Spotlights as a permanent record on some of the more intriguing players for the upcoming season. Each Spotlight will be featured in an article on the main website.

[SIZE=14pt]Thread Topic: Chris Chambers, WR, Miami Dolphins[/SIZE]

Player Page Link: Chris Chambers Player Page

Each article will include:

[*]Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member

[*]Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads

[*]FBG Projections

[*]Consensus Member Projections

[SIZE=14pt]The Rules[/SIZE]

In order for this thread to provide sustainable value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

[*]Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player

[*]Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"

[*]To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the player

Projections should include (at a minimum):

[*]For QBs: Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs

[*]For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

[*]For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

[SIZE=14pt]Best of Luck and ENJOY![/SIZE]

 
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Think this guy will be a stud once Culpepper is healthy....

showed last year his ability.. ready to jump into elite!!!!!!

95 rec 1300 yds 11-13 tds

 
Chris Chambers enjoyed his best season to-date in 2005 with 82 receptions. He also totaled 11 touchdowns for the second time in three years. His primary QB last year was Gus Frerotte, who has since left the team. His replacement -- Daunte Culpepper -- is an improvement at the QB position, but I fully expect him to miss the first six weeks of the season. In all probability, Joey Harrington will come to Miami to be the starting QB until Culpepper is healthy. I view Harrington as a decline at the QB position from Frerotte.

Culpepper's first start cannot come soon enough for Chambers, who will suffer until that point. Once Culpepper arrives, though, Chambers should finish the year on a hot streak for nice season totals.

Chris Chambers, WR MIA

90 REC, 1200 YDS, 10 TD

 
Just wondering... how do you determine who gets posted first? Chris Chambers is not high on my list of WRs I thought would warrant lots of discussion early.

FWIW, I think he's grossly overrated based on early mock drafts.

There's just something about him I can't put my finger on. Outstanding ability. Makes hard catches look easy sometimes, but doesn't catch everything thrown his way like true topWRs do. He's like Brandon Lloyd++.

74 catches

1000 yards

8 TDs

 
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The problem with Chambers' 06 fantasy prospects have nothing to do with Chambers, but have everything to do with the question marks at QB. Culpepper will most likely not be ready for the beginning of the season and the QB depth in Miami is questionable at best with Frerotte leaving for St. Louis.

I'm expecting a down year for Chambers and a subsequent disappointment for those drafting him at his current ADP.

76 Receptions

1030 Receiving Yards

8 TDS

I'll draft Kennison 4 rounds later for those numbers.

 
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I think there is enough uncertainty at QB to have concerns about Chambers being able to duplicate last seasons performance. I think he is an absolutely supremely talented player but that his situation is going to limit his opportunities somewhat. I still think he is great player and would feel comfortable with him as my #1 WR if I had some decent depth at the position. If Culpepper is able to slowly build back to full health I think Chambers will be a monster in 2007. For this season I project:

85 Receptions

1190 Receiving Yards

8 TDs

 
Very similar year to last year. Slow start, fast finish. He was the #1 WR over the second half of last year and he may well be again over the second half of this year when Culpepper comes back.

80 catches 1150 yards receiving 10 TDs 100 yards rushing

 
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For those saying he's overrated, I tend to agree:

WK TM  OPP   RSH YD TD TARG REC YD TD FPT  1    MIA DEN 1 61 0 13 5 40 0 10.1 2 MIA NYJ 1 8 0 7 3 21 0 2.9 3 MIA CAR 0 0 0 12 6 93 1 15.3 5 MIA BUF 0 0 0 9 4 60 0 6.0  6 MIA TB 3 25 0 5 3 50 0 7.5 7 MIA KC 0 0 0 11 2 88 1 14.8  8 MIA NO 1 1 0 5 4 25 1 8.6 9 MIA ATL 2 -13 0 6 3 40 0 2.7  10 MIA NE 0 0 0 14 6 69 2 18.9 11 MIA CLE 0 0 0 9 3 12 0 1.2 12 MIA OAK 1 5 0 12 6 101 0 10.6 13 MIA BUF 0 0 0 26 15 238 1 29.8 14 MIA SD 0 0 0 10 8 121 2 24.1 15 MIA NYJ 0 0 0 8 4 34 1 9.4 16 MIA TEN 3 5 0 12 5 51 2 17.6 17 MIA NE 0 0 0 7 5 75 0 7.5 TOT   12 92 0 166 82 1118 11 187
He feasted 2 weeks in a row, and aside from that his season was pretty unremarkable.

75 rec 980 yds 7 TD's

 
Chris Chambers:

Hitch up the Chris Chambers bandwagon, as the hype is high for a young receiver coming off his best year and adding a “real” QB who can throw the ball to him. Chris had a career tying 11 TD's and broke the thousand-yard barrier for the first time finishing with 1,118 yards on 82 catches.

The Big News: Daunte Culpepper! It seems as if Chris Chambers has had a different QB throwing to him since he entered the league back in 2001. Having some consistency, even with Gus Frerrotte, allowed Chambers to average over 100 yards and one TD a game for Miami’s 6 game winning streak to end the year. Having Culpepper get some extra seconds to run a route or to get positive yards on a broken play can only help Chambers. Just as important, getting in rhythm with one QB over the next few years projects very well for Chambers in the present and future. Finally, Chambers has excellent leaping ability and hands; having a strong-armed QB plays into Chambers strengths. Frerrotte has his limitations but he does have a good arm and if Chambers can be good with Frerrotte he should be better with Daunte.

However, nothing is that simple. To project Chambers to do as well as he did in the final 6 games of last year just doesn’t make any sense. Daunte may miss the first few games and it may take awhile for Chambers and Culpepper to get in synch. Daunte could steal some TD’s with his legs as well.

Chambers has really been pretty consistent and healthy in his career. As stated previously, he has excellent hands and can make the tough catches look easy. He does drop a few easy passes and did have 5 fumbles last year, but I expect that was more of an aberration. I expect Chambers to finish the year with more yards but not increase his TD production. He will be 28 years old in August (in his prime) and has a very high floor even if his ceiling may not reach the top tier guys. Chambers is a very solid guy to have on your fantasy team and should finish in the top 10 this year once again averaging more than 11 points a game.

Receptions: 85

Yards: 1,211

TD’s: 11

Rush Yards: 95

Fumbles lost: 2

 
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Going into last year, there was a lot of talk about Chambers breaking out due the addition of Scott Linehan to the Miami Staff. After all, he did a fantastic job of coming up with unique schemes to get Moss the ball in Minnesota. The gamble paid off last year when Chambers had his best year to date. The problem is Linehan has bolted to become the head coach of the Rams. At the end of last year, I was very high on the prospect of drafting Chambers as an elite WR, but now I am not so sure.

I would expect him to come back down some off those numbers due to the uncertainty of how he will respond without Linehan. At the end of the year last year, he was really catching on. I see:

80 catches

1000 yards

9 TD's

 
I'm admittedly a fan of Chris Chambers and think he has a big upside in ff. Plus, I truly beleive that MIA has their offense going the right direction.

Chambers was targeted a ton last year by his QBs and seems likely to get many looks again in 06. With a little better play behind center, he could post some very good numbers. Is Culpepper the guy to get him the ball? I'm not totally sold, but think that he's an improvement at the very least.

Recs: 87

Rec Yds: 1,175

TDs: 9

...And I think the potential for even better produciton is there.

 
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Joseph's point is the biggest one here.

2006 Chris Chambers=2005 Drew Bennett.

Chambers had two big games last year that really bumped up his stats. Other than that, he looks like every other WR2/WR3 you might be drafting. Couple that with a very shaky QB situation, a new coach, and a team that I look to fall back a little this year, and it doesn't look good.

15 rushes, 50 yards rushing, 0 TD. 75 receptions, 1050 yards, 8 TD.

He's going to be good, but he's not going to duplicate last year, or reach his current ADP.

 
I for one, will not get fooled with all the hype for him. Potential does not always equal production.

75 Catches

900 Yards

8-9 TD's (I editted this from 7)

Still not high on my radar. I assume someone will draft him way before I would look at him.

 
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Don't look now, but the Dolphins are starting to get a little offense. They have a young stud RB and when Daunte Culpepper returns, the Dolphins are going to be able to start moving the ball.

I don't like having to take Chambers to high in any draft, as it leaves little room for error for him, but nonethless he'll have a solid season.

74 catches for 1130 yards and 8 td's

 
wow...one of the few spotlights I've seen that hasn't evolved into a lovefest for the player.

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Hey LHUCKS,Given your love for rankings analysis and your willingness to engage in debate on almost anything football-related, I can say nothing would please me more than to see you throw some point/counterpoint into the Spotlights that you think are too positively biased. :thumbup:

Woodrow

 
wow...one of the few spotlights I've seen that hasn't evolved into a lovefest for the player.

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Hey LHUCKS,Given your love for rankings analysis and your willingness to engage in debate on almost anything football-related, I can say nothing would please me more than to see you throw some point/counterpoint into the Spotlights that you think are too positively biased. :thumbup:

Woodrow

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Yeah, I kind of pick and choose my spots where I think the consensus is off. I'll try to get more involved in these this year.
 
wow...one of the few spotlights I've seen that hasn't evolved into a lovefest for the player.

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Hey LHUCKS,Given your love for rankings analysis and your willingness to engage in debate on almost anything football-related, I can say nothing would please me more than to see you throw some point/counterpoint into the Spotlights that you think are too positively biased. :thumbup:

Woodrow

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Yeah, I kind of pick and choose my spots where I think the consensus is off. I'll try to get more involved in these this year.
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Great to hear :yes:
 
Joseph's point is the biggest one here.

2006 Chris Chambers=2005 Drew Bennett.

Chambers had two big games last year that really bumped up his stats. Other than that, he looks like every other WR2/WR3 you might be drafting. 

15 rushes, 50 yards rushing, 0 TD.  75 receptions, 1050 yards, 8 TD.

He's going to be good, but he's not going to duplicate last year, or reach his current ADP.

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You could say that about almost every good WR.He still looks pretty solid this year, but don't expect top 3.

1,100 yards, 10 TDs

 
Many people point to the QB situation as the reason Chambers didn't produce last season. Personally, I think it's more a result of the fact that he couldn't catch the ball.

Watch the highlight reels of a game, and you'll see stunning grab after stunning grab made by Chambers. Watch the entire game and you'll see 2 easy catches dropped for every hard catch made. Last season, Chambers caught only 49% of the balls headed his direction. Before you blame that on the QB situation, consider that Wes Welker managed to catch 56% of the balls thrown his way (for a higher ypc, to boot!) with the exact same QB situation. Yes, Chambers faced tougher coverages than Welker... but he's supposed to be better, too, now isn't he?

Look down the list of the elite WRs from last season, and you'll notice they all have one thing in common- a fantastic catch percentage. Steve Smith (69%), Chad Johnson (63%), Santana Moss (63%), Larry Fitzgerald (62%), Anquan Boldin (60%), Marvin Harrison (62%), Reggie Wayne (68%), Torry Holt (63%). Looking back at previous years reinforces this trend (top fantasy WRs catch a high percentage of their opportunities).

Chris Chambers' career catch% numbers are 53%, 52%, 49%, 50%, and 49%. I will start believing he's an elite WR when he starts catching the dang ball with some consistancy.

 
Losing Linehan is going to hurt his guy's #'s this year. Plus add in the point the Joey "my dog has a better arm" Harrington is probably going to be his qb for a couple or more weeks and this smells like a disaster season for Chambers.

70 receptions

1050 yards

6 td's

 
Chris Chambers' success last year had more to do with the new offensive gameplan than anything else. From the time he was a rookie he has shown that he's capable of being one of the best WRs in the league. Despite his listed size of 5'11", 210 lbs, he has the physique of a Terrell Owens. He's fast, he can out jump most corners he goes against and he knows how to catch the ball.

Look at his numbers since entering the league:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2001 mia |  16 |     1    -11  -11.0    0 |    48    883  18.4    7 || 2002 mia |  15 |     6     78   13.0    0 |    52    734  14.1    3 || 2003 mia |  16 |     4     30    7.5    0 |    64    963  15.0   11 || 2004 mia |  15 |     9     76    8.4    0 |    69    898  13.0    7 || 2005 mia |  16 |    12     92    7.7    0 |    82   1118  13.6   11 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   |  78 |    32    265    8.3    0 |   315   4596  14.6   39 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+He's shown growth in every season. As a rookie he averaged over 18 yards a catch and scored 7 TDs. Rookie wideouts rarely make contributations like that their first year. The following season he hauled in 52 balls, averaged 14 yards per catch and scored 3 times despite suffering a concussion and playing on a sprained right ankle. The 3 seasons since then? He's averaged 71 receptions, just under a thousand yards and 9-10 TDs a season.Last year was his first playing in an offense that took advantage of his abilities. Chambers responded with a career year. The loss of offensive coordinator Scott Linehan may shake things up, but Mike Mularkey knows how to design an offense that will get the ball to it's top wideout. He may not make a good head coach, but he has a good track record as an offensive coordinator.

The Dolphins QB situation is the biggest reason for concern here. If Culpepper returns within the first month of the season than Chambers will have a year that resembles last seasons or better. If Joey Harrington plays most of the year than Chambers ceiling won't be quite as high. With these projections we'll just assume the Dolphins QB situation will be solid this year.

86 receptions, 1218 yards, 10 TDs

 
The problem with Chambers' 06 fantasy prospects have nothing to do with Chambers, but have everything to do with the question marks at QB.  Culpepper will most likely not be ready for the beginning of the season and the QB depth in Miami is questionable at best with Frerotte leaving for St. Louis.

I'm expecting a down year for Chambers and a subsequent disappointment for those drafting him at his current ADP.

76 Receptions

1030 Receiving Yards

8 TDS

I'll draft Kennison 4 rounds later for those numbers.

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:goodposting: Thats why your the best LHucks80 1000 Yds 9 Tds

 
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Chris Chambers' success last year had more to do with the new offensive gameplan than anything else. From the time he was a rookie he has shown that he's capable of being one of the best WRs in the league. Despite his listed size of 5'11", 210 lbs, he has the physique of a Terrell Owens. He's fast, he can out jump most corners he goes against and he knows how to catch the ball.

Look at his numbers since entering the league:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2001 mia |  16 |     1    -11  -11.0    0 |    48    883  18.4    7 || 2002 mia |  15 |     6     78   13.0    0 |    52    734  14.1    3 || 2003 mia |  16 |     4     30    7.5    0 |    64    963  15.0   11 || 2004 mia |  15 |     9     76    8.4    0 |    69    898  13.0    7 || 2005 mia |  16 |    12     92    7.7    0 |    82   1118  13.6   11 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   |  78 |    32    265    8.3    0 |   315   4596  14.6   39 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+He's shown growth in every season. As a rookie he averaged over 18 yards a catch and scored 7 TDs. Rookie wideouts rarely make contributations like that their first year. The following season he hauled in 52 balls, averaged 14 yards per catch and scored 3 times despite suffering a concussion and playing on a sprained right ankle. The 3 seasons since then? He's averaged 71 receptions, just under a thousand yards and 9-10 TDs a season.Last year was his first playing in an offense that took advantage of his abilities. Chambers responded with a career year. The loss of offensive coordinator Scott Linehan may shake things up, but Mike Mularkey knows how to design an offense that will get the ball to it's top wideout. He may not make a good head coach, but he has a good track record as an offensive coordinator.

The Dolphins QB situation is the biggest reason for concern here. If Culpepper returns within the first month of the season than Chambers will have a year that resembles last seasons or better. If Joey Harrington plays most of the year than Chambers ceiling won't be quite as high. With these projections we'll just assume the Dolphins QB situation will be solid this year.

86 receptions, 1218 yards, 10 TDs

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Yes, and this progression over the years has been (as stated before) done with several different QBs tossing the Rock to him.. With some consistancy and good play at the QB spot , Chambers has a Very High UP Side.. IMO
 
And who's throwing to Mr. Chambers this year...none other than our dear friend Culpepper. By comparison to the division in which he played, our friend Culpepper is actually going to find out that NE, Buf, and J-e-t-s are alot more competitive than the Black and Blue teams he is accustomed to. Chambers will be cringing when he get double teamed and our good friend Culpepper locks in to his good cousin McMichael, most of the time. Mr. Chambers, say hello to 600 yds, 2 TD's.

 
Chris Chambers' success last year had more to do with the new offensive gameplan than anything else. From the time he was a rookie he has shown that he's capable of being one of the best WRs in the league. Despite his listed size of 5'11", 210 lbs, he has the physique of a Terrell Owens. He's fast, he can out jump most corners he goes against and he knows how to catch the ball.

Look at his numbers since entering the league:

+--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2001 mia |  16 |     1    -11  -11.0    0 |    48    883  18.4    7 || 2002 mia |  15 |     6     78   13.0    0 |    52    734  14.1    3 || 2003 mia |  16 |     4     30    7.5    0 |    64    963  15.0   11 || 2004 mia |  15 |     9     76    8.4    0 |    69    898  13.0    7 || 2005 mia |  16 |    12     92    7.7    0 |    82   1118  13.6   11 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   |  78 |    32    265    8.3    0 |   315   4596  14.6   39 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+He's shown growth in every season. As a rookie he averaged over 18 yards a catch and scored 7 TDs. Rookie wideouts rarely make contributations like that their first year. The following season he hauled in 52 balls, averaged 14 yards per catch and scored 3 times despite suffering a concussion and playing on a sprained right ankle. The 3 seasons since then? He's averaged 71 receptions, just under a thousand yards and 9-10 TDs a season.Last year was his first playing in an offense that took advantage of his abilities. Chambers responded with a career year. The loss of offensive coordinator Scott Linehan may shake things up, but Mike Mularkey knows how to design an offense that will get the ball to it's top wideout. He may not make a good head coach, but he has a good track record as an offensive coordinator.

The Dolphins QB situation is the biggest reason for concern here. If Culpepper returns within the first month of the season than Chambers will have a year that resembles last seasons or better. If Joey Harrington plays most of the year than Chambers ceiling won't be quite as high. With these projections we'll just assume the Dolphins QB situation will be solid this year.

86 receptions, 1218 yards, 10 TDs

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Yes, and this progression over the years has been (as stated before) done with several different QBs tossing the Rock to him.. With some consistancy and good play at the QB spot , Chambers has a Very High UP Side.. IMO
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Couldn't agree more have had Chambers on 2 of my dynasty squads, his entire career.

He is a mortal lock for 65-70 receptions, 900 yds, 7tds, even if Joe Blow is the qb, barring an injury to Chris, himself.

The only season he didn't come close to this is his 2nd year in the league when he got bleeped up, on a Sunday night game against Denver, laying it all out across the middle, going up for an errant Fielder pass, was down for over 5 min. Was never the same that year but rebounded to catch 11 of Miami's 15 or 16 td pass in his 3rd year, tied Hines Ward for the AFC lead in td catches that year.

He could improve a little on catching some of the easy ones, but his qbs have under thrown him way more than his drop totals. I have watched games where he has beat his guy deep only to be under thrown to, or his qb completely miss him being open and checks down. Any good qb play at all will only increase his #s.

His upside is 90+ receptions, 1200+ yds, and 12+ tds.

To me a very safe receiver to have, after the top 6 or 7 wrs, low down side, high upside. Just my 2 cents, based on what I have seen.

 
I've been saying it for years now. Chambers has elite ability and was once one of the most underutilized WRs in the NFL. It really should not be a surprise that with a decent passing scheme and QB this guy puts up big numbers.

89 rec, 1260 yds, 12 TDs

 
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I've been saying it for years now.  Chambers has elite ability and was once one of the most underutilized WRs in the NFL.  It really should not be a surprise that with a decent passing scheme and QB this guy puts up big numbers.

89 rec, 1260 yds, 12 TDs

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Explain to me, if you will, how the MOST TARGETED WR IN THE ENTIRE NFL could possibly be considered "one of the most underutilized WRs in the NFL".Yes, Chambers had a good season last year. He should have, he was targeted more often than Fitzgerald, Boldin, Holt, Burress, Johnson, Steve Smith, Harrison, Moss, or any of the other WRs who ranked so far ahead of him.

Chambers ranked #1 in targets last season. He ranked #14 in targets the season before. He ranked #15 in targets the season before that. The guy's not underutilized, he just can't catch the dang ball!

Even if you expect Chambers' catch percentage to rise drastically (let's say to 55%), his targets are guaranteed to drop. If he gets a reasonable 130 targets (which would have been good for 11th in the league last season), and converts 55% of them (which would be a new career high for Chambers), he finishes the season with 72 receptions- five fewer than he had this season! Even if he catches an ASTOUNDING 60% (which destroys his current career high of 53%), that's still 77 receptions- one better than he did this season. And a rise in catching percentage for a #1 receiver usually corresponds to a decline in ypr (shorter routes and whatnot).

A note: I'm using numbers from weeks 1-16. I threw out week 17 data because, first of all, it's usually irrelevant for fantasy purposes, and second of all, because a ton of screwy things happen in week 17 that pollute the numbers.

Basically, Chris Chambers will produce decent WR2 numbers, for a solid WR1 price tag. No thanks.

 
I've been saying it for years now.  Chambers has elite ability and was once one of the most underutilized WRs in the NFL.  It really should not be a surprise that with a decent passing scheme and QB this guy puts up big numbers.

89 rec, 1260 yds, 12 TDs

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Explain to me, if you will, how the MOST TARGETED WR IN THE ENTIRE NFL could possibly be considered "one of the most underutilized WRs in the NFL".Yes, Chambers had a good season last year. He should have, he was targeted more often than Fitzgerald, Boldin, Holt, Burress, Johnson, Steve Smith, Harrison, Moss, or any of the other WRs who ranked so far ahead of him.

Chambers ranked #1 in targets last season. He ranked #14 in targets the season before. He ranked #15 in targets the season before that. The guy's not underutilized, he just can't catch the dang ball!

Even if you expect Chambers' catch percentage to rise drastically (let's say to 55%), his targets are guaranteed to drop. If he gets a reasonable 130 targets (which would have been good for 11th in the league last season), and converts 55% of them (which would be a new career high for Chambers), he finishes the season with 72 receptions- five fewer than he had this season! Even if he catches an ASTOUNDING 60% (which destroys his current career high of 53%), that's still 77 receptions- one better than he did this season. And a rise in catching percentage for a #1 receiver usually corresponds to a decline in ypr (shorter routes and whatnot).

A note: I'm using numbers from weeks 1-16. I threw out week 17 data because, first of all, it's usually irrelevant for fantasy purposes, and second of all, because a ton of screwy things happen in week 17 that pollute the numbers.

Basically, Chris Chambers will produce decent WR2 numbers, for a solid WR1 price tag. No thanks.

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I guess we never bothered to think about the QBs that were throwing him the ball. Chambers had 8 drops last year that is as many or less than: C.Johnson, Gates, Burress, S.Moss, Galloway, Holt and 1 more than S.Smith. I guess these guys cant catch the ball either.BTW, being underutilized does not only deal with targets.... Or did we forget the Randy ratio already?

 
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I guess we never bothered to think about the QBs that were throwing him the ball.  Chambers had 8 drops last year that is as many or less than:  C.Johnson, Gates, Burress, S.Moss, Galloway, Holt and 1 more than S.Smith.  I guess these guys cant catch the ball either.

BTW, being underutilized does not only deal with targets.... Or did we forget the Randy ratio already?

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The way to measure a player's catching ability isn't drops, it's catch%. Using drops will include a lot of missed catches were the WR totally blew it by running a sloppy route, running the wrong route, failing to gain separation, or failing to look back for the ball (or the great clip of Brandon Lloyd ducking the ball that's someone's avatar). Drops are only passes that hit a receiver in both hands that the receiver fails to secure- and I'd argue that there's a lot more to being a good receiver than securing balls that hit you in both hands.Also, can we PLEASE get off how horrible Chambers' QB situation was last year? Lee Evans had a 54% catch% with Losman and Holcomb, Josh Reed posted a 60% catch rate with the same, and Eric Moulds put up a 63% catch%. Anquan Boldin's catch%s were 61%, 54%, and 60% when playing with such luminaries as Shaun King, Josh McCown, and John Navarre. Galloway caught 55% from Griese and Simms. Derrick Mason caught 64% from Kyle Freaking Boller. [SIZE=11pt]Arnaz Battle caught 59% with Ken Dorsey, Cody Pickett, Tim Rattay, and ALEX SMITH.[/SIZE] I would say that ALL of those WRs were in worse situations, and none of them had anywhere NEAR a 50% catch rate.

If Arnaz Freaking Battle can catch fifty-freaking-nine percent of the balls thrown his way by Alex Freaking Smith, then is it really EXCUSABLE for Chambers to be unable to catch even 50% of the balls thrown to him by Gus Frerotte (who, for all of his faults, has managed to stick around in the league for *11* seasons, which is quite an accomplishment in itself).

Also, the Randy Ratio wasn't an example of a WR being underutilized, it was an example of a WR being a whiny jerk.

 
I guess we never bothered to think about the QBs that were throwing him the ball.  Chambers had 8 drops last year that is as many or less than:  C.Johnson, Gates, Burress, S.Moss, Galloway, Holt and 1 more than S.Smith.  I guess these guys cant catch the ball either.

BTW, being underutilized does not only deal with targets.... Or did we forget the Randy ratio already?

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The way to measure a player's catching ability isn't drops, it's catch%. Using drops will include a lot of missed catches were the WR totally blew it by running a sloppy route, running the wrong route, failing to gain separation, or failing to look back for the ball (or the great clip of Brandon Lloyd ducking the ball that's someone's avatar). Drops are only passes that hit a receiver in both hands that the receiver fails to secure- and I'd argue that there's a lot more to being a good receiver than securing balls that hit you in both hands.Also, can we PLEASE get off how horrible Chambers' QB situation was last year? Lee Evans had a 54% catch% with Losman and Holcomb, Josh Reed posted a 60% catch rate with the same, and Eric Moulds put up a 63% catch%. Anquan Boldin's catch%s were 61%, 54%, and 60% when playing with such luminaries as Shaun King, Josh McCown, and John Navarre. Galloway caught 55% from Griese and Simms. Derrick Mason caught 64% from Kyle Freaking Boller. [SIZE=11pt]Arnaz Battle caught 59% with Ken Dorsey, Cody Pickett, Tim Rattay, and ALEX SMITH.[/SIZE] I would say that ALL of those WRs were in worse situations, and none of them had anywhere NEAR a 50% catch rate.

If Arnaz Freaking Battle can catch fifty-freaking-nine percent of the balls thrown his way by Alex Freaking Smith, then is it really EXCUSABLE for Chambers to be unable to catch even 50% of the balls thrown to him by Gus Frerotte (who, for all of his faults, has managed to stick around in the league for *11* seasons, which is quite an accomplishment in itself).

Also, the Randy Ratio wasn't an example of a WR being underutilized, it was an example of a WR being a whiny jerk.

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How does a QB forcing a pass into double coverage, bouncing balls at the feet of WRs or severly overthrowing the ball out of bounds leading to incompletions reflect in any way the WRs catching ability? Hell a QB can throw a pass so bad that there are no WRs within 20 yds of it and it gets picked. The stat gurus will still apoint that pass as a target to the nearest WR. These all get chalked up as TARGETS. None of which can be blamed on the WR. How many times have you actually watched Chambers play?The Randy ratio is an example of a coach being a fool and severly underutilizing a great WR's true abilities. Trying to force the ball to Randy on short and intermediate routs completly ignoring what the guy does best is not utilizing him in the right way what so ever. Let alone the fact that he told the whole world and other teams that this was the plan. :loco: Every player has certain strengths. Coaches jobs are to identify them and put the players in the best possible situtaion to take advantage of those strengths. When coaches fail to do this I see it as underutilizing the player. If you can't see how the Randy ratio reflects this then there is no reason to even continue the discussion. We will have to simply agree to disagree.

 
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How does a QB forcing a pass into double coverage, bouncing balls at the feet of WRs or severly overthrowing the ball out of bounds leading to incompletions reflect in any way the WRs catching ability?  Hell a QB can throw a pass so bad that there are no WRs within 20 yds of it and it gets picked.  The stat gurus will still apoint that pass as a target to the nearest WR.  These all get chalked up as TARGETS.  None of which can be blamed on the WR.  How many times have you actually watched Chambers play?
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If playing with such a bad QB is such a huge handicap, then how do you explain the catch%s I listed that were posted by "less elite" WRs playing with a QB situation ranging from comparably bad (Kyle Boller) to MUCH WORSE (Alex Smith).Seriously, does Gus Frerotte severely overthrow or underthrow his WRs that much more than Alex Smith? If not, why the heck can Arnaz Battle, who is considered a step above a SCRUB (in my opinion, he's very underrated), post a better catch% than Chris Chambers, who is widely considered the second coming of awesome?

Also, I always love it when people pull the "Do you even watch the games?!" arguement out of their hat, as if it somehow makes their point stronger and my point weaker.

Very well, since you asked... I've lived in South Florida since the 2000 season. I have played in a fantasy league where 7 of the 10 owners are huge Dolphin fans. We have a weekly tradition dating back to 2002 of watching all NFL games at a Miami Dolphins sports bar, where the Miami game is always broadcast on a giant TV screen, and where the audio is always pumped through the bar. I haven't seen Chambers play as much as his mother has, but it's pretty close.

Not only do I see him play, I discuss him playing. As I said, most of my football friends are Dolphin fans, so when we talk football, we invariably talk Dolphins. We call Chambers "C. Lloyd" after his Brandon Lloyd-like tendency to make the ridiculous catches (like that circus one-hander in Denver in 2002) while missing the most routine grabs. We talk about how he's perhaps the most overrated WR in the NFL, and discuss in detail his disturbing tendency to disappear for long stretches at a time.

Which brings me to *MY* next question. Since you brought it up, how many times have *YOU* watched Chambers play?

The Randy ratio is an example of a coach being a fool and severly underutilizing a great WR's true abilities.  Trying to force the ball to Randy on short and intermediate routs completly ignoring what the guy does best is not utilizing him in the right way what so ever.  Let alone the fact that he told the whole world and other teams that this was the plan. :loco:   Every player has certain strengths.  Coaches jobs are to identify them and put the players in the best possible situtaion to take advantage of those strengths.  When coaches fail to do this I see it as underutilizing the player.  If you can't see how the Randy ratio reflects this then there is no reason to even continue the discussion.  We will have to simply agree to disagree.

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What? The Randy Ratio is an example of a coach "SEVERELY UNDERUTILIZING" a WR?The Randy Ratio is an example of MISUTILIZING a WR. It is an example of OVERUTILIZING a WR. If you think it's an example of UNDERUTILIZING a WR, then what you're really saying is that FIFTY PERCENT of the passes should be thrown his way instead of the paltry 40%.

Underutilized = not used enough. I don't think that description can be applied to the WR who led the league in targets last season. Quibble with the type of targets they were, if you want... but you can't quibble with the number and say it wasn't enough.

 
How does a QB forcing a pass into double coverage, bouncing balls at the feet of WRs or severly overthrowing the ball out of bounds leading to incompletions reflect in any way the WRs catching ability?  Hell a QB can throw a pass so bad that there are no WRs within 20 yds of it and it gets picked.  The stat gurus will still apoint that pass as a target to the nearest WR.  These all get chalked up as TARGETS.  None of which can be blamed on the WR.  How many times have you actually watched Chambers play?
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If playing with such a bad QB is such a huge handicap, then how do you explain the catch%s I listed that were posted by "less elite" WRs playing with a QB situation ranging from comparably bad (Kyle Boller) to MUCH WORSE (Alex Smith).Seriously, does Gus Frerotte severely overthrow or underthrow his WRs that much more than Alex Smith? If not, why the heck can Arnaz Battle, who is considered a step above a SCRUB (in my opinion, he's very underrated), post a better catch% than Chris Chambers, who is widely considered the second coming of awesome?

Also, I always love it when people pull the "Do you even watch the games?!" arguement out of their hat, as if it somehow makes their point stronger and my point weaker.

Very well, since you asked... I've lived in South Florida since the 2000 season. I have played in a fantasy league where 7 of the 10 owners are huge Dolphin fans. We have a weekly tradition dating back to 2002 of watching all NFL games at a Miami Dolphins sports bar, where the Miami game is always broadcast on a giant TV screen, and where the audio is always pumped through the bar. I haven't seen Chambers play as much as his mother has, but it's pretty close.

Not only do I see him play, I discuss him playing. As I said, most of my football friends are Dolphin fans, so when we talk football, we invariably talk Dolphins. We call Chambers "C. Lloyd" after his Brandon Lloyd-like tendency to make the ridiculous catches (like that circus one-hander in Denver in 2002) while missing the most routine grabs. We talk about how he's perhaps the most overrated WR in the NFL, and discuss in detail his disturbing tendency to disappear for long stretches at a time.

Which brings me to *MY* next question. Since you brought it up, how many times have *YOU* watched Chambers play?

The Randy ratio is an example of a coach being a fool and severly underutilizing a great WR's true abilities.  Trying to force the ball to Randy on short and intermediate routs completly ignoring what the guy does best is not utilizing him in the right way what so ever.  Let alone the fact that he told the whole world and other teams that this was the plan. :loco:   Every player has certain strengths.  Coaches jobs are to identify them and put the players in the best possible situtaion to take advantage of those strengths.  When coaches fail to do this I see it as underutilizing the player.  If you can't see how the Randy ratio reflects this then there is no reason to even continue the discussion.  We will have to simply agree to disagree.

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What? The Randy Ratio is an example of a coach "SEVERELY UNDERUTILIZING" a WR?The Randy Ratio is an example of MISUTILIZING a WR. It is an example of OVERUTILIZING a WR. If you think it's an example of UNDERUTILIZING a WR, then what you're really saying is that FIFTY PERCENT of the passes should be thrown his way instead of the paltry 40%.

Underutilized = not used enough. I don't think that description can be applied to the WR who led the league in targets last season. Quibble with the type of targets they were, if you want... but you can't quibble with the number and say it wasn't enough.

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As much as I would love to hijack a Spotlight thread, I am content to agree to disagree with you rather than spell everything out a 2nd time. Last year I watched 4 Mia games, but that is not the only place I get my information. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Chris Chambers is an incredibly gifted WR who routinely pulls down the toughest catches. Yes, his hands are a little inconsistent, but then that can be said of many of the 'great' WRs playing today. Can you say TO?

He's clearly the No.1 receiving threat on a team that is on the rise. Linehan played a big part in allowing Chambers to flourish in 2005, but from what I've read, it seems as though Saban is going to leave the offensive gameplan relatively unchanged. The QB situation is still shaky...but then Chambers flourished with Frerotte at the helm last year, and previously with Fiedler...and can anyone forget Lucas? Besides...I think Saban has an idea how to keep Chambers motivated. It was his comment last year that his WRs were 'decent', that Chambers took exception too...and we saw what a motivated Chambers was capable of if given the opportunity. Saban saw that too.

As others have stated, Chambers is a safe pick for 900+ yards, 9-10 TDs and some rushing yardage as well. That's the floor for this guy. When Culpepper is fully recovered and the two have had sufficient time to acclimate to one another...Chambers production could go through the roof. He's low risk...with high production possibilities.

As an aside...to compare him to fellows like Wes Welker and Arnaz Battle is a little absurd. Neither of those players garner the type of attention Chambers does from opposing defenses. When you compare him to other top WRs, Harrison, Boldin, Holt, Chad Johnson...you have to concede that those WRs had better quarterbacking. Put it this way if Frerotte was THAT good...why is he 2nd fiddle to Bulger?

My prediction for Chambers: 82 - 1090 - 10 TDs...with upside.

 
Chris Chambers is an incredibly gifted WR who routinely pulls down the toughest catches.  Yes, his hands are a little inconsistent, but then that can be said of many of the 'great' WRs playing today.  Can you say TO?

He's clearly the No.1 receiving threat on a team that is on the rise.  Linehan played a big part in allowing Chambers to flourish in 2005, but from what I've read, it seems as though Saban is going to leave the offensive gameplan relatively unchanged.  The QB situation is still shaky...but then Chambers flourished with Frerotte at the helm last year, and previously with Fiedler...and can anyone forget Lucas?  Besides...I think Saban has an idea how to keep Chambers motivated.  It was his comment last year that his WRs were 'decent', that Chambers took exception too...and we saw what a motivated Chambers was capable of if given the opportunity.  Saban saw that too.

As others have stated, Chambers is a safe pick for 900+ yards, 9-10 TDs and some rushing yardage as well.  That's the floor for this guy.  When Culpepper is fully recovered and the two have had sufficient time to acclimate to one another...Chambers production could go through the roof.  He's low risk...with high production possibilities.

As an aside...to compare him to fellows like Wes Welker and Arnaz Battle is a little absurd.  Neither of those players garner the type of attention Chambers does from opposing defenses.  When you compare him to other top WRs, Harrison, Boldin, Holt, Chad Johnson...you have to concede that those WRs had better quarterbacking.  Put it this way if Frerotte was THAT good...why is he 2nd fiddle to Bulger?

My prediction for Chambers:  82 - 1090 - 10 TDs...with upside.

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Frerotte's 2nd fiddle to Bulger because Bulger is, when healthy, one of the top QBs in the league- a proven pro bowl performer.Let me ask you- if Frerotte is that BAD, how is he still in the league? I mean, look at Lucas, look at Akili Smith, look at Tim Couch, look at Danny Kanell. Bad QBs often don't get 2nd chances, let alone SEVENTH chances (Frerotte will be playing with his 8th different team this season).

Yes, he's a journeyman... but then, so is Jeff Blake, and Anquan Boldin managed to catch 61% with Jeff Blake as not only the only offensive option, but a ROOKIE as well. Likewise, great receivers have produced with Trent Dilfer, Vinny Testeverde, Kurt Warner (journeyman Kurt), or any of the other mendicant passers in the league.

I dunno, Chambers apologists just make too many excuses for my tastes. Blame it on the coverages, blame it on the Quarterback... tough coverages and bad QBs never stopped Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, or Roy Williams. Do you think Derrick Mason didn't face constant double teams when he caught 64% of the balls thrown his way this season?

 
Chris Chambers is an incredibly gifted WR who routinely pulls down the toughest catches.  Yes, his hands are a little inconsistent, but then that can be said of many of the 'great' WRs playing today.  Can you say TO?

He's clearly the No.1 receiving threat on a team that is on the rise.  Linehan played a big part in allowing Chambers to flourish in 2005, but from what I've read, it seems as though Saban is going to leave the offensive gameplan relatively unchanged.  The QB situation is still shaky...but then Chambers flourished with Frerotte at the helm last year, and previously with Fiedler...and can anyone forget Lucas?  Besides...I think Saban has an idea how to keep Chambers motivated.  It was his comment last year that his WRs were 'decent', that Chambers took exception too...and we saw what a motivated Chambers was capable of if given the opportunity.  Saban saw that too.

As others have stated, Chambers is a safe pick for 900+ yards, 9-10 TDs and some rushing yardage as well.  That's the floor for this guy.  When Culpepper is fully recovered and the two have had sufficient time to acclimate to one another...Chambers production could go through the roof.  He's low risk...with high production possibilities.

As an aside...to compare him to fellows like Wes Welker and Arnaz Battle is a little absurd.  Neither of those players garner the type of attention Chambers does from opposing defenses.  When you compare him to other top WRs, Harrison, Boldin, Holt, Chad Johnson...you have to concede that those WRs had better quarterbacking.  Put it this way if Frerotte was THAT good...why is he 2nd fiddle to Bulger?

My prediction for Chambers:  82 - 1090 - 10 TDs...with upside.

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Frerotte's 2nd fiddle to Bulger because Bulger is, when healthy, one of the top QBs in the league- a proven pro bowl performer.Let me ask you- if Frerotte is that BAD, how is he still in the league? I mean, look at Lucas, look at Akili Smith, look at Tim Couch, look at Danny Kanell. Bad QBs often don't get 2nd chances, let alone SEVENTH chances (Frerotte will be playing with his 8th different team this season).

Yes, he's a journeyman... but then, so is Jeff Blake, and Anquan Boldin managed to catch 61% with Jeff Blake as not only the only offensive option, but a ROOKIE as well. Likewise, great receivers have produced with Trent Dilfer, Vinny Testeverde, Kurt Warner (journeyman Kurt), or any of the other mendicant passers in the league.

I dunno, Chambers apologists just make too many excuses for my tastes. Blame it on the coverages, blame it on the Quarterback... tough coverages and bad QBs never stopped Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, or Roy Williams. Do you think Derrick Mason didn't face constant double teams when he caught 64% of the balls thrown his way this season?

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You see the glass half empty, I see the glass half full, no problem. You can look at the catch %s, I will look at the solid production for years, the situation, clear cut # 1wr on his team with no competition, top targeted wr in the NFL. You can't see his catch % going up, I can with a little better QB, play. If his targets go down and or his catch % drops, then you may be correct, but I don't see that in the next few years. I would draft him in the later half of 3rd( if you just have to have him) or in the 4th round( where I prefer), in a 12 team redraft league, any higher and you are not getting value for the pick. Just interested as to where you would slot him?

 
You see the glass half empty, I see the glass half full, no problem. You can look at the catch %s, I will look at the solid production for years, the situation, clear cut # 1wr on his team with no competition, top targeted wr in the NFL. You can't see his catch % going up, I can with a little better QB, play.

If his targets go down and or his catch % drops, then you may be correct, but I don't see that in the next few years. I would draft him in the later half of 3rd( if you just have to have him) or in the 4th round( where I prefer), in a 12 team redraft league, any higher and you are not getting value for the pick. Just interested as to where you would slot him?
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I absolutely see his catch% going up a little bit. I don't see it getting past the 53-55% range, but I do see a little bit of a boost. With that said... his targets have NOWHERE to go but down. He led the league in targets through week 16 last season, and finished with over 160. You can't bank on that number again.I would slot him around the same place that I'm going to slot Andre Johnson, the other "stud WR in a bad system who is really, honestly, truly going to break out this season." I haven't done my WR rankings yet, but I suspect he'll wind up falling between #15 and #20- a solid #2, but definitely not worth the price of admission as a #1. In my experience, upside is more of a concern with RBs- with WR, I'd much rather my WR1 had a high downside, instead.

 
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