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Where most of the NFL went wrong... (1 Viewer)

LHUCKS

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid. After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game. Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow. Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft." Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White. What do you trust? One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

 
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  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences

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That pretty much sums up my attitude about the whole combine thing in general. IMO it is hideously overrated.White is a classic boom or bust IMO. I think they got a steal in the 2d w/him also and he'll be fine (which sucks as a Colt fan - don't even want to think about our soft run D tackling him), but there is the chance for another Dayne-type situation (who came out of school w/the all-time rushing record and ran a respectable (for his size) 4.58 40).

 
Quite simply, White seems to have the inherent ability to get it done north-south like few others I've seen. :yes:

Truly suprised he slid to where he did. SOD sounds about right. :thumbup:

 
  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences

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That pretty much sums up my attitude about the whole combine thing in general. IMO it is hideously overrated.White is a classic boom or bust IMO. I think they got a steal in the 2d w/him also and he'll be fine (which sucks as a Colt fan - don't even want to think about our soft run D tackling him), but there is the chance for another Dayne-type situation (who came out of school w/the all-time rushing record and ran a respectable (for his size) 4.58 40).

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IMHO Lendale's game is significantly more NFL-friendly than is Dayne's.
 
  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences

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That pretty much sums up my attitude about the whole combine thing in general. IMO it is hideously overrated.White is a classic boom or bust IMO. I think they got a steal in the 2d w/him also and he'll be fine (which sucks as a Colt fan - don't even want to think about our soft run D tackling him), but there is the chance for another Dayne-type situation (who came out of school w/the all-time rushing record and ran a respectable (for his size) 4.58 40).

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Ronnie Brown last year upped his stock significantly with his combine workout. I think the combine is a good tool to evaluate players and when combined with the college game film is can give a good overall picture of a player’s perceived value. That being said workout warriors are not always the best draft picks.
 
If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

 
If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

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Chris Brown = AKA GlassmanHenry = Coachs doghouse after the drug issue. I wonder if he can be cut without a huge cap hit?

White = Second half this year will be sharing carries and by 2007 the starter.

 
Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

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Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titans' GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

 
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If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

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Chris Brown = AKA GlassmanHenry = Coachs doghouse after the drug issue. I wonder if he can be cut without a huge cap hit?

White = Second half this year will be sharing carries and by 2007 the starter.

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:goodposting:
 
If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

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you must be jokingthe two incumbents are bums

white will be the man sooner rather than later

 
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

 
Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

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Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titan's GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

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Thanks LHUCK,That makes sense. I'm really interested to see how it goes for him. I'm not a big Reggie Bush fan. I said after the Rose Bowl I'd much rather have White at the end of the first round than Reggie Bush at the top of the round. The more I saw of White the less I felt that. Now I'm sort of in between.

Looking forward to his summer.

J

 
Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

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Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titan's GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

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This is the one thing that convinces me. That said, and I was a huge Lendale White fan past couple of years and had hoped the Panthers would draft him, but Lendale comes off sounding like a turd in almost every interview I've read, and he sounded like an idiot during the interviews ESPN did. I think he has the potential to be a great football player, and if Chow vouches for his work ethic and attitude, then so be it, but I definitely at least see how NFL teams, especially the character focused ones of this year, would be wary of him. On the surface, Lendale looks like a fat turd. I still think he'll be great, but there are some really good talent evaluators that passed on him - I feel pretty confident they know a lot more than we do, even if Chow is vouching for White.
 
We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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We're not talking abou Marcus Vick here...the guy has been a model citizen for 99% of his college career.
 
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Hi LHucks,

Can you elaborate more on what Cowherd said?

Thanks.

J

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Hi Joe,Cowherd was interviewing Titan's GM Floyd Reese and brought up the topic of the value that Lendale White appeared to be. Lloyd explained how Chow was a staunch supporter of White's and has said that "he's the most misunderstood player in this draft." Reese basically stated they took a chance on this kid based on Chow's insistance that the negative reports and unflattering workout days are not what this kid is about, nor do they reflect his ability to succeed at the next level.

Afterwards Cowherd summarized by saying, do you trust one day of workouts or do you trust Pac10 scoring records, NFL makeup and a coach that worked with the kid on a daily basis for two years that is putting his credibility on the line as a talent evaluator.

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Thanks LHUCK,That makes sense. I'm really interested to see how it goes for him. I'm not a big Reggie Bush fan. I said after the Rose Bowl I'd much rather have White at the end of the first round than Reggie Bush at the top of the round. The more I saw of White the less I felt that. Now I'm sort of in between.

Looking forward to his summer.

J

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Exactly my sentiments. :goodposting:
 
OBTW,

White's 52 TD mark is a Pac10 record.

that's more than Marcus Allen or OJ Simpson for the record.

 
We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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We're not talking abou Marcus Vick here...the guy has been a model citized for 99% of his college career.
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"Character" doesnt measure only whether or not he pulls guns on kids, but his willingness to work and not expect everything to be given to him.Other than Vick and a few of the rapists in the draft, I didnt see a player who has more questions about his character.

 
We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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We're not talking abou Marcus Vick here...the guy has been a model citized for 99% of his college career.
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"Character" doesnt measure only whether or not he pulls guns on kids, but his willingness to work and not expect everything to be given to him.Other than Vick and a few of the rapists in the draft, I didnt see a player who has more questions about his character.

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Well, I know this is often overstated but Randy Moss lacked "character" as well and that's what caused his slide. We'll see if Chow can provide that security blanket that White might need to succeed at the next level. I don't know if there is a better place for a kid like White to be at other than a team like the Titans where his old OC and staunch supporter will be there looking out for him.I could be wrong, but I think the kid is going to prove a lot of NFL teams wrong.

 
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I love it, now people think they have formed a better opinion of White's character than even his former coach. A guy who delt with him in a daily basis. :lmao:

 
If Henry and Brown were not there... I would say UNBELEIVABLE pick, but to be honest, he might not even see the field... maybe a carry or two unless Brown gets injured or henry bites it this year.

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Chris Brown = AKA GlassmanHenry = Coachs doghouse after the drug issue. I wonder if he can be cut without a huge cap hit?

White = Second half this year will be sharing carries and by 2007 the starter.

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I can't find a link, but if I remember correctly, the extension they signed him too after trading for him gave the Titans a lot of outs. I believe they can cut him this year with little cap impact.ETA: Apparently the team restructured his contract 2 months ago, making it an incentive laden-deal and avoiding the $4 million dollar option they would have had to pay at that time.

http://64.246.64.33/default.asp?c=nytimes&.../ABN4007539.htm

 
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Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

 
We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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We're not talking abou Marcus Vick here...the guy has been a model citized for 99% of his college career.
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"Character" doesnt measure only whether or not he pulls guns on kids, but his willingness to work and not expect everything to be given to him.Other than Vick and a few of the rapists in the draft, I didnt see a player who has more questions about his character.

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:lmao: Link to where he expects everything to be given to him?

lmFAo

 
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
 
Well, I know this is often overstated but Randy Moss was lacked "character" as well and that's what caused his slide.  We'll see if Chow can provide that security blanket that White might need to succeed at the next level.  I don't know if there is a better place for a kid like White to be at other than a team like the Titan's where his old OC and staunch supporter will be there looking out for him.

I could be wrong, but I think the kid is going to prove a lot of NFL teams wrong.

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This is somewhat of an aside, but I see this as less and less of a good example of teams getting a steal by taking a questionable character guy later. There's no question that Moss has put up sick numbers and dominated his position when healthy. BUT, his problems on the field and off the field have continued as a pro. His attitude became such a problem that the Vikings finally moved him for significantly less than what his production would indicate he was worth. I think that Moss's overall impact on the Vikings was considerably less than just his raw numbers and hard to use to justify other teams taking guys with character issues.
 
I've used 3rd grade grammar/English in the above posts...please disregard...multi-tasking at work.

 
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
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That bum didn't run the 40 with a torn hamstring.
 
Well, I know this is often overstated but Randy Moss was lacked "character" as well and that's what caused his slide.  We'll see if Chow can provide that security blanket that White might need to succeed at the next level.  I don't know if there is a better place for a kid like White to be at other than a team like the Titan's where his old OC and staunch supporter will be there looking out for him.

I could be wrong, but I think the kid is going to prove a lot of NFL teams wrong.

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This is somewhat of an aside, but I see this as less and less of a good example of teams getting a steal by taking a questionable character guy later. There's no question that Moss has put up sick numbers and dominated his position when healthy. BUT, his problems on the field and off the field have continued as a pro. His attitude became such a problem that the Vikings finally moved him for significantly less than what his production would indicate he was worth. I think that Moss's overall impact on the Vikings was considerably less than just his raw numbers and hard to use to justify other teams taking guys with character issues.
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The problems the Vikes have had over the years have very little to do with Randy Moss and a lot to do with a complete lack of leadership, discipline and team structure. All things this team had with Green as the coach and look at how those teams did in comparison.
 
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Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
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That bum didn't run the 40 with a torn hamstring.
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exactly...the MRI proved it was torn.And if his speed and power wasn't apparent to you in the NCAA game tape, you need to get another day job if you're an NFL scout/analyst/GM/Coach.

 
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Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
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It's been defined to death. Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

 
So, most of the NFL went wrong in not hiring Chow?

Not everyone had that advantage... And on the Flip side, what does that say about Leinart? Chow couldn't convince anyone on that one and as a Jets fan I was a bit nervous with them possibly taking Leinart with a much younger and inexperienced coaching staff when the guy's old coach and alma mata buddies passed him up.

FWIW - Curtis Martin said he loved White a few months back when asked who the Jets should take.

 
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Character concern #1 - He didn't put the necessary work in to improve his draft position

Will anybody else be happy when any player Norm Chow ever coached in college graduates?

 
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
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It's been defined to death. Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

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I think that is it...a lot of teams kind of feel he "doesn't get it", and it's more from an overall qualitative observation/opinion, than one startling incident.
 
It's been defined to death. 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

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Control his weight? His weight is down from the Rose Bowl.His lackluster pro day had nothing to do with character.

That comment about Young/Leinart was not bashing Leinart at all, and is a complete stretch to compare that to T.O. since Leinart was no longer his teammate.

If this is the best people can do about saying what a bad character the guy is, then he has better character than the majority of players in the NFL.

 
Something was bothering me about why Lendale White slid.  After having watched the kid play for the last couple of years, I believed without hesitation that the kid was made for the pro game.  Then after listening to ESPN radio's Colin Cowherd this morning I realized what was bothering me when Cowhered made the point that I just couldn't seem to articulate...and he did so by paraphrasing Norm Chow.  Chow after the draft said, "White is the most misunderstood player in this draft."  Which is why Norm Chow had vohemently lobbied for the selection of White.  What do you trust?  One day of workouts or somebody's real life experiences with the kid over several years on a daily basis.

Titans got a steal and Lendale White is going to be the SOD of rookie drafts this year...bank on it.

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:yucky: This pick made me sad to be a Titans fan.

We used to be one of those teams that valued character and work ethic, but with Reese realizing his job will soon be gone, he's abandoned that practice in favor of adding any athlete, no matter what their character concerns.

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:confused: What character issues does White have?

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I've been asking for this to be defined for months now.
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It's been defined to death. Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

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I think that is it...a lot of teams kind of feel he "doesn't get it", and it's more from an overall qualitative observation/opinion, than one startling incident.
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Thank you LHUCKs. You get it here.J

 
Not everyone had that advantage... And on the Flip side, what does that say about Leinart?  Chow couldn't convince anyone on that one and as a Jets fan I was a bit nervous with them possibly taking Leinart with a much younger and inexperienced coaching staff when the guy's old coach and alma mata buddies passed him up.

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True, not everybody had Chow vouching for him...but they lacked the insight or the due dilligence to find out what Chow knew. Can you fault them for that, maybe not as there are hundreds of players in consideration and you cant extensively investigate each one.
 
It's been defined to death. 

Whether one wants to acknowledge them or put any stock into them is another matter.

The issues are that White gives the impression that he just doesn't get it. From not being able to control his weight to what seemed like a totally lackluster pro day benching only more than the punter to making comments he felt the QB from (at the time) his most recent opponent was better than his most recent QB not far off from T.O. pining for Brett Farvre over McNabb.

Perhaps none of those things mean anything at all. We won't know for a while. But those are the issues people are talking about.

J

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Wow, it simply amazes me how badly people can misinterpret (or overanalyzed) what some players say. Comparing TO's comments with White's still strike me as blatantly absurd, sry. White now weighs LESS than he did during the Nat Champ game last year! Is this information false somehow? So really, IMO, all people are falling back on is his lackluster workout and decision to not participate in most events with a torn hamstring. Where are all those threads about how workout numbers are overrated and misleading....
 
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