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[DYNASTY] League Question (1 Viewer)

K

kevinray

Footballguy
Hey guys, I'm not sure if this belongs here but I'm setting up the rules for a new dynasty league and I was curious how some of you deal with the problem of people who's seasons are hopless purposefuly losing in order to get a higher rookie pick. Where do you even draw the line? What kind of rules, if any, do you have to keep purposefully trying to lose from happening?

 
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1) we forbid tanking in the rules, every owner must make every effort to remain competitive throughout the season

2) we have weekly awards and the later season ones tend to favor lower performing teams (like winner with the lowest average points per game)

3) we have a Tidy Bowl where the bottom six teams play out for the top 6 draft picks (so they want to hold onto valuable players for the consolation playoffs)

4) we crafted a Tidy Bowl seeding system that does not benefit teams that tank (based on potential points and the pythagorean win percentage concepts)

 
Hey guys, I'm not sure if this belongs here but I'm setting up the rules for a new dynasty league and I was curious how some of you deal with the problem of people who's seasons are hopless purposefuly losing in order to get a higher rookie pick. Where do you even draw the line? What kind of rules, if any, do you have to keep purposefully trying to lose from happening?

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Here was some good discussion:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...5293&hl=tanking

 
We have a rule that states that if an owner is suspected of tanking games then a league vote may take place. If the majority vote reveals that said owner is tanking then that owner will be placed in the draft order one slot lower than the last playoff team.

 
Hey guys, I'm not sure if this belongs here but I'm setting up the rules for a new dynasty league and I was curious how some of you deal with the problem of people who's seasons are hopless purposefuly losing in order to get a higher rookie pick. Where do you even draw the line? What kind of rules, if any, do you have to keep purposefully trying to lose from happening?

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Here was some good discussion:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...5293&hl=tanking

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Damn. Colin didn't pay $$$, and then doesn't submit lineups to get better picks. *lol* That's character!
 
Overcharge. If the league decides that, say, the entrance fee is $50, charge everyone $100 up front. If there are 12 teams, give $50 refunds to the top 10. That way no one wants to end up in the last two spots. BTW, make sure if your league charges transaction fees, you account for them at the beginning of the season, too. It's much easier to collect money from people before the season starts rather than after they've drafted a bunch of guys who blow their ACLs in the first preseason game.

I like the "Tidy Bowl" idea, don't give the top draft slot to the worst team by default. We use a draft lottery in our league, like the NBA uses--worst team gets 6 'balls', 2nd worst, 4, next worst 2, next, 1 (4 of 12 in the lottery, the remaining 8 are in the playoffs and get draft slots based on playoff finish). Then draw for draft slots. The worst team has a 6 in 13 chance of getting the top draft slot, just below a 50-50 chance. The 2 playoff bubble teams combine have a 3-in-13 shot, or half as much a chance as the worst team. So a team that was fighting at the end of the season to make the playoffs, and just missed out, could conceivably wind up with the #1 pick next year.

Combine features from different suggestions and you're sure to find a system you like and the owners can agree to. Most owners are so confident at the beginning of the season that they'll OK a penalty on the 2 worst teams, figuring that'll never be them.

 
The "Tidy Bowl" idea is the way to go... Reward the teams that actually try and EARN the top draft slots. Tanking should never be rewarded. As much as we try and emulate the NFL by awarding those slots to the worst teams, we have to remember that this IS Fantasy Football, and we must assure that everyone gets a fair shot at the top draft positions.

In my league, we reward the "Tidy Bowl" winners by giving them their CHOICE of the Top 6 Draft positions. This allows the "winner" to CHOOSE to move down in a serpentine draft and gain the higher pick in the 2nd Round if they'd like.

 
The "Tidy Bowl" idea is the way to go... Reward the teams that actually try and  EARN the top draft slots. Tanking should never be rewarded. As much as we try and emulate the NFL by awarding those slots to the worst teams, we have to remember that this IS Fantasy Football, and we must assure that everyone gets a fair shot at the top draft positions.

In my league, we reward the "Tidy Bowl" winners by giving them their CHOICE of the Top 6 Draft positions. This allows the "winner" to CHOOSE to move down in a serpentine draft and gain the higher pick in the 2nd Round if they'd like.

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You use a serpentine draft in a dynasty league?
 
If you are using MFL to host your league, we use Possible Points for deciding draft positions, not records. This way, tanking doesn't help you. Your points are your points. If your possible points put you at a weaker draft position than your record dictates then tough. Possible Points is the way to go!!!

 
The "Tidy Bowl" idea is the way to go... Reward the teams that actually try and  EARN the top draft slots. Tanking should never be rewarded. As much as we try and emulate the NFL by awarding those slots to the worst teams, we have to remember that this IS Fantasy Football, and we must assure that everyone gets a fair shot at the top draft positions.

In my league, we reward the "Tidy Bowl" winners by giving them their CHOICE of the Top 6 Draft positions. This allows the "winner" to CHOOSE to move down in a serpentine draft and gain the higher pick in the 2nd Round if they'd like.

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You use a serpentine draft in a dynasty league?
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Actually, no... Our league is a 3 keeper/re-draft for the most part. However, the concept of rewarding the true winners is the same no matter how you choose to draft. If a Dynasty league simply gives the number #1 rookie pick (in every round) to the worst team, how will they ever combat the concept of "Tanking" without altering their rules to take "Tanking" out of the equation altogether. That's where the problem lies >>> Proving that someone is actually tanking in the first place.By allowing owners the chance to fight to the very end and actually EARN that #1 pick, you remove any chance of Tanking altogether.

 
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Tanking happens even in the NFL, see Houston last year. You can't eliminate it from Fantasy Football. If people are sneaky enough they can tank while still seeming to compete.

The only way to do it is penalize the tanking team by moving their draft pick to the last position.

 
There's a difference between tanking & building for the future. If the owner is trading away some top older vets to acquire a lot of 1st round picks, that's his perrogative on how he best manages his team - I would say as long as he's just not giving away studs (For example LT for a 4th round pick the next year) that there is absolutely nothing wrong with an owner doing this.

If an owner is intentionally starting players who everyone in the league knows are well into substandard (say Cecel Sapp for LT while LT is still starting for SD), then you have a different matter on your hands. An owner has an obligation to put his most competitive team on the field. An owner tanking like this needs to be put on notice that he'll be run out of the league if he does it again.

I'll admit that this is a fine line. The owner in both cases is acting to benefit his team, and his actions directly benefit another team in the league. But there is a matter of sportsmanship, ethics, and gamesmanship involved. In the first case, the owner is trading value for value. In the second case, the owner is intentionally doing everything in his power to lose. There is a difference, and it has to be enforced in the league to keep the league in proper competitive balance & to keep with the spririt of fair play for all.

And we are talking about blatant tanking, also. Not the difference between starting a 3rd WR with a bad matchup vs a 4th WR with a good matchup. That might make other micro-managing owners in the league angry, but quite frankly that's also none of their damn business. We're talking about starting blatant scrubs for solid to great FF players who are healthy & playing that week.

 
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If an owner is accused of tanking, it goes to a vote by our rules committee and a 3/4 vote expels owner from league! Tanking is what ruins leagues!

 
Hey guys, I'm not sure if this belongs here but I'm setting up the rules for a new dynasty league and I was curious how some of you deal with the problem of people who's seasons are hopless purposefuly losing in order to get a higher rookie pick. Where do you even draw the line? What kind of rules, if any, do you have to keep purposefully trying to lose from happening?

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make it clear in the rules if an owner tanks to better their draft position for next year they will be kicked out of the league.
 
There's a difference between tanking & building for the future.  If the owner is trading away some top older vets to acquire a lot of 1st round picks, that's his perrogative on how he best manages his team - I would say as long as he's just not giving away studs (For example LT for a 4th round pick the next year) that there is absolutely nothing wrong with an owner doing this.

If an owner is intentionally starting players who everyone in the league knows are well into substandard (say Cecel Sapp for LT while LT is still starting for SD), then you have a different matter on your hands.  An owner has an obligation to put his most competitive team on the field.  An owner tanking like this needs to be put on notice that he'll be run out of the league if he does it again.

I'll admit that this is a fine line.  The owner in both cases is acting to benefit his team, and his actions directly benefit another team in the league.  But there is a matter of sportsmanship, ethics, and gamesmanship involved.  In the first case, the owner is trading value for value.  In the second case, the owner is intentionally doing everything in his power to lose.  There is a difference, and it has to be enforced in the league to keep the league in proper competitive balance & to keep with the spririt of fair play for all.

And we are talking about blatant tanking, also.  Not the difference between starting a 3rd WR with a bad matchup vs a 4th WR with a good matchup.  That might make other micro-managing owners in the league angry, but quite frankly that's also none of their damn business.  We're talking about starting blatant scrubs for solid to great FF players who are healthy & playing that week.

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I agree there is a difference in tanking and having a fire sale. Dynasty owners do have the right to trade older players away for young player(s) and/or draft pick(s).
 
Being the commish in a sucessfull 12 team dynasty myself, here is my opinion.

1) Moving the tanking team to a higher or last draft pick is not a good idea because if the owner ends up giving up the team the new owner will be screwed.

2) A toilet bowl is great but you don't want to award the 1st pick to the winner. The whole idea is to have the worst teams get the lowest picks in order to improve or rebuild their team. If the number 1 seeded team that doesn't make the playoffs wins the toilet bowl, you are helping a team that doesn't need as much help as 7 other teams. In our league, the toilet bowl winner gets $50.00. That is insentive enough to not tank games. After all, do you want to be the top seeded team in the toilet bowl facing the worst team or the last team facing the best team.

Just to e safe though we have addressd the issue in our rules. We charge teams $5.00 that start players on bye weeks or players that are listed as out. If it continues to happen that teams trading and droping players rights are suspended and a vote can be called for to replace the owner. I take running this league very seriously and find that $$ is the best way to encourage playing by the rules.

 
Being the commish in a sucessfull 12 team dynasty myself, here is my opinion.

2) A toilet bowl is great but you don't want to award the 1st pick to the winner. The whole idea is to have the worst teams get the lowest picks in order to improve or rebuild their team. If the number 1 seeded team that doesn't make the playoffs wins the toilet bowl, you are helping a team that doesn't need as much help as 7 other teams. In our league, the toilet bowl winner gets $50.00. That is insentive enough to not tank games. After all, do you want to be the top seeded team in the toilet bowl facing the worst team or the last team facing the best team.

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I proposed to my league that we run a toilet bowl with the champ getting the #1 pick--BUT, the team with the worst record would be guaranteed nothing worse than the #2 overall pick. All other picks for the rest of the draft would fall according to W/L record. It got voted down, of course. . .
 
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In my league, tanking is defined as purposely not starting your best lineup. Sometimes, it's a legitimate disagreement over who is the better player, but teams that sit their studs are pretty easy to spot.

Thankfully, I've never had to actually enforce any tanking rules, since my owners have been great (except for one, who took his warning to heart and stopped). Nonetheless, I would suggest that you figure out what the team's record would have been had he started his best-scoring lineup each week, and then assign him to whatever draft slot he would have earned. This way, there's no incentive to tank.

 
I proposed to my league that we run a toilet bowl with the champ getting the #1 pick--BUT, the team with the worst record would be guaranteed nothing worse than the #2 overall pick. All other picks for the rest of the draft would fall according to W/L record. It got voted down, of course. . .
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The problem with the toilet bowl winner getting the 1st pick is you could have a very good team getting someone like R. Bush while 5,6,7,8 worse teams have to pick through the rest.
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Install a lottery for the draft.

Can't tank it much as they'd like if they can't guarantee a better draft pick.

Also, tanking can be hard to prove.

Case in point, you'll see plenty of owners go with a youth movement (sometimes in the initial draft too). You know they are going to suck in the current year in hopes of building a perenial champion later (but usually suck for many years to come because of the lousy initial draft). Is it tanking or building for the future? Either way you look at it, they are going to be drafting early the next year.

 
Install a lottery for the draft.

Can't tank it much as they'd like if they can't guarantee a better draft pick.

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This is what we do in the dynasty league I commish, and it works pretty well. All six non-playoff teams have an equal chance of the #1. True, it doesn't rebuild the worst teams as quickly as you'd like, but it complete removes the incentive to tank.
 
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