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New Quarterback Coach Impressed with QB Vick (1 Viewer)

Chris Smith

Chris Smith

The Head Goon!
New quarterback coach Bill Musgrave said his early take on quarterback Michael Vick has been positive. Vick has shown up at meetings on time. He's been eager to learn more about what is already in place and to figure out new wrinkles. "I had heard good things about [Vick] and they're all true," Musgrave said. "He's a competitor. He's a professional. He doesn't want to have any down years and I think he's looking forward for the team to get back on track and winning the division again."

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports...xsvc=7&cxcat=21

....

My take: Michael Vick wasn't himself last season and vows to run the ball more often in 2006. He is working hard to improve his passing game skill-set and is a competitor. Many are ranking him outside of the top ten and he definitely has huge value if he is drafted that low in your fantasy leagues.

He doesn't need to put up huge passing numbers to be a fantasy monster. I'll drink the Vick Kool-Aid in '06.

 
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I passed the Kool-Aid to another owner for McNabb. I had Vick on my roster since his second season and he's is just too inconsistant for my blood pressure. I had to start Garrad as my QB in our Dynasty Bowl.

 
I passed the Kool-Aid to another owner for McNabb. I had Vick on my roster since his second season and he's is just too inconsistant for my blood pressure. I had to start Garrad as my QB in our Dynasty Bowl.
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I understand that completely. However Vick is still developing and it was pretty obvious last season watching him that he wasn't himself on the field.McNabb had to 13th place finishes in fantasy football prior to Terrell Owens arrival with the team and has also been inconsistent game-to-game over the past several seasons when you take away the time he spent with Owens. He isn't the threat to run that he once was so he'll have to put up pretty big passing numbers to eclipse Vick this season which I doubt he is going to do without passing to Owens this season.

I get why you made the trade but I believe you'll ultimately regret the trade half way through this season (and beyond).

 
I passed the Kool-Aid to another owner for McNabb. I had Vick on my roster since his second season and he's is just too inconsistant for my blood pressure. I had to start Garrad as my QB in our Dynasty Bowl.
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I understand that completely. However Vick is still developing and it was pretty obvious last season watching him that he wasn't himself on the field.McNabb had to 13th place finishes in fantasy football prior to Terrell Owens arrival with the team and has also been inconsistent game-to-game over the past several seasons when you take away the time he spent with Owens. He isn't the threat to run that he once was so he'll have to put up pretty big passing numbers to eclipse Vick this season which I doubt he is going to do without passing to Owens this season.

I get why you made the trade but I believe you'll ultimately regret the trade half way through this season (and beyond).
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Hello Chris, this is were I "hope" you're wrong. Last year I bought into the "He needs to get comfortable with the new offense" hype. I have been very patient in "waiting" for Vick to "finally" arrive/get comfortable. I admire Vick for his hard work and dedication. But there were three factors in why the Kool-Aid turned to Spoiled Milk.

#1. As I've stated.................too inconsistant.

#2. Vick's strength, is his Achilis hell. There's is no doubt of Vick's potential greatness, but his inability to control his arm strength drove my blood pressure to a new level. I saw maybe six games and he constantly overthrew his WRs.

#3. I seen numerous interviews with Vick and my interpetation of those interview suggested to me that Vick thinks he's playing doesn't need any improvement. After watching another interview on ESPN convinced me behond a shadow of a doubt that I need to get rid of him.

In my mind (from a fantasy perspective) what seperates McNabb from Vick.....................consistency. I really don't need a QB to finish in the top 5 or top 10 just give me some consistency, some stability and Vick has yet to show that.

For every one game Vick "can" win for you, he'll lose three. :football:

 
I passed the Kool-Aid to another owner for McNabb. I had Vick on my roster since his second season and he's is just too inconsistant for my blood pressure. I had to start Garrad as my QB in our Dynasty Bowl.
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I understand that completely. However Vick is still developing and it was pretty obvious last season watching him that he wasn't himself on the field.McNabb had to 13th place finishes in fantasy football prior to Terrell Owens arrival with the team and has also been inconsistent game-to-game over the past several seasons when you take away the time he spent with Owens. He isn't the threat to run that he once was so he'll have to put up pretty big passing numbers to eclipse Vick this season which I doubt he is going to do without passing to Owens this season.

I get why you made the trade but I believe you'll ultimately regret the trade half way through this season (and beyond).
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Hello Chris, this is were I "hope" you're wrong. Last year I bought into the "He needs to get comfortable with the new offense" hype. I have been very patient in "waiting" for Vick to "finally" arrive/get comfortable. I admire Vick for his hard work and dedication. But there were three factors in why the Kool-Aid turned to Spoiled Milk.

#1. As I've stated.................too inconsistant.

#2. Vick's strength, is his Achilis hell. There's is no doubt of Vick's potential greatness, but his inability to control his arm strength drove my blood pressure to a new level. I saw maybe six games and he constantly overthrew his WRs.

#3. I seen numerous interviews with Vick and my interpetation of those interview suggested to me that Vick thinks he's playing doesn't need any improvement. After watching another interview on ESPN convinced me behond a shadow of a doubt that I need to get rid of him.

In my mind (from a fantasy perspective) what seperates McNabb from Vick.....................consistency. I really don't need a QB to finish in the top 5 or top 10 just give me some consistency, some stability and Vick has yet to show that.

For every one game Vick "can" win for you, he'll lose three. :football:
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Good reply and difficult to dispute after his last two seasons. Vick was pretty darn consistent though in 2002 when he finished 3rd in FP and was strong in most of his games. He has been through a lot since joining the NFL and is still only 26-years old which is younger than some quarterbacks even get to throw their first passes.He managed to finish 10th and 12th at the position over the past two seasons, both of which were very disappointing ones. With the receivers being both young and improving, Vick has a real chance to greatly exceed expectations this season. I don't see McNabb having that opportunity.

We'll see ultimately how he does in '06. If Jenkins / White can emerge as at least a threat, Vick may be fantasy gold and you can get him in the sixth round or later in many leagues.

 
I passed the Kool-Aid to another owner for McNabb. I had Vick on my roster since his second season and he's is just too inconsistant for my blood pressure. I had to start Garrad as my QB in our Dynasty Bowl.
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I understand that completely. However Vick is still developing and it was pretty obvious last season watching him that he wasn't himself on the field.McNabb had to 13th place finishes in fantasy football prior to Terrell Owens arrival with the team and has also been inconsistent game-to-game over the past several seasons when you take away the time he spent with Owens. He isn't the threat to run that he once was so he'll have to put up pretty big passing numbers to eclipse Vick this season which I doubt he is going to do without passing to Owens this season.

I get why you made the trade but I believe you'll ultimately regret the trade half way through this season (and beyond).
Click to expand...
Hello Chris, this is were I "hope" you're wrong. Last year I bought into the "He needs to get comfortable with the new offense" hype. I have been very patient in "waiting" for Vick to "finally" arrive/get comfortable. I admire Vick for his hard work and dedication. But there were three factors in why the Kool-Aid turned to Spoiled Milk.

#1. As I've stated.................too inconsistant.

#2. Vick's strength, is his Achilis hell. There's is no doubt of Vick's potential greatness, but his inability to control his arm strength drove my blood pressure to a new level. I saw maybe six games and he constantly overthrew his WRs.

#3. I seen numerous interviews with Vick and my interpetation of those interview suggested to me that Vick thinks he's playing doesn't need any improvement. After watching another interview on ESPN convinced me behond a shadow of a doubt that I need to get rid of him.

In my mind (from a fantasy perspective) what seperates McNabb from Vick.....................consistency. I really don't need a QB to finish in the top 5 or top 10 just give me some consistency, some stability and Vick has yet to show that.

For every one game Vick "can" win for you, he'll lose three. :football:
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Good reply and difficult to dispute after his last two seasons. Vick was pretty darn consistent though in 2002 when he finished 3rd in FP and was strong in most of his games. He has been through a lot since joining the NFL and is still only 26-years old which is younger than some quarterbacks even get to throw their first passes.He managed to finish 10th and 12th at the position over the past two seasons, both of which were very disappointing ones. With the receivers being both young and improving, Vick has a real chance to greatly exceed expectations this season. I don't see McNabb having that opportunity.

We'll see ultimately how he does in '06. If Jenkins / White can emerge as at least a threat, Vick may be fantasy gold and you can get him in the sixth round or later in many leagues.
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:goodposting: Outstanding! These are the very things that drove me to the edge of scarifying rats to the football gods. How is it possible for a Player to finish 10th and 12th, yet in one game score 3pts only to follow up with 25pts and finish 11th in my league last year..................what the h :confused: ll?

Jenkins/White can only emerge if Vick can control his arm strength and you're right Vick "may" be fantasy gold. If he is there in my redraft league in a later round, after and only after I've secured a #1 QB, I'd strongly consider taking him.........potential can make or break a fantasy team.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
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You got quite the system. You must make a killing at Vegas.Red. Red. Black. Black. "put all my chips on red please".

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
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Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.

I see Vick like young Steve McNair...

In 1997 McNair completed only 216 of 415 attempts for 2665 yards and 14 touchdowns yet finished as the 5th best quarterback. Why? Because he rushed for 674 yards and 8 touchdowns...

Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.

I see no reason why Vick won't have his finest season yet (if he can stay healthy which is the red-flag for all mobile quarterbacks)

 
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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

MIKE VICK is the boss down in Atlanta period end of story.

The guy is the most exciting player in the NFL.

Not saying he's the best, as he's not even close.

On any given play he can run for a TD, zip a pass for a TD, get sacked for a 20 yard loss, or throw an INT for a TD...

 
New quarterback coach Bill Musgrave said his early take on quarterback Michael Vick has been positive. Vick has shown up at meetings on time.
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Really, he's impressed because vick shows up on time? wow. those are some high standards.
 
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If Roddy White emerges as a deep threat this year we could finally see the passing game that is supposed to turn Vick into a stud. Roddy had 21 passes for 352 yards and three touchdowns in the second half of his rookie season.

 
Here's my 2006 projections on QB Michael Vick for what it is worth...

com 232

att 400

PY 2840

Y/A 7.1

Ic 13

PTD 18

CAR 112

RuY 694

RuTD 7

FP 312.4

 
I never look at Vick as a starter for my teams - but I often try to grab him as a back up -- I truly believe one of these years he'll hit his stride, though as mentioned it could be long in coming.

It amazes me when I see him go before alot of other more consistant QBs.

I'm not surprised the new guy is impressed. He's exciting to watch-- but FFwise, not much to look at.

 
New quarterback coach Bill Musgrave said his early take on quarterback Michael Vick has been positive. Vick has shown up at meetings on time.
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Really, he's impressed because vick shows up on time? wow. those are some high standards.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. It shouldn't even warrant mention that a QB is showing up for meetings on time.
 
Here's my 2006 projections on QB Michael Vick for what it is worth...

com 232

att 400

PY 2840

Y/A 7.1

Ic 13

PTD 18

CAR 112

RuY 694

RuTD 7

FP 312.4
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FWIW, these stats would've put him as the #3 QB last year only behind Palmer and Brady. In fact, in my main league he was #6 last year and was only 12 points out of 3rd behind Peyton Manning.

 
Until he can read a D fast enough for the O he's in, I don't care who's impressed with him. I wouldn't expect Musgrave to say anything bad about him.

That said, his fantasy numbers could be great but stay away from his RB's and WR's.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
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Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.

I see Vick like young Steve McNair...

In 1997 McNair completed only 216 of 415 attempts for 2665 yards and 14 touchdowns yet finished as the 5th best quarterback. Why? Because he rushed for 674 yards and 8 touchdowns...

Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.

I see no reason why Vick won't have his finest season yet (if he can stay healthy which is the red-flag for all mobile quarterbacks)
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i don't get it, those guys you listed off can't be compared to Vick, they do one thing that Vick doesn't.......throw...... ;)
 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
You got quite the system. You must make a killing at Vegas.Red. Red. Black. Black. "put all my chips on red please".
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History has shown that he is more likely to have a season with injuries than he is to have a decent season. Even in those other years, he has still struggled with injuries. I really didn't think it was that hard to understand.
 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.

 
Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance.  Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above?  I doubt it.
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Yes he has been more erratic then several of the starters above once they became starting quarterbacks. Vick was in a situation where he was brought in to be the starter, after learning from Chandler for a season. Several of the others were not in situations where they were signed to be a starter after the first year. Delhomme wasn't even drafted. Vick has been erratic since he became a starter, and he has been a starter for a few years now. Matt Shaub is a much better passer than Vick, and he isn't even the starter, and has less time in the NFL.
 
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The risk of drafting Vick as your starting QB is to great because of his inconsistancy and injury history. There will always be that one guy in the draft who drafts him too early. I have noticed a trend with that - This is the same drafter who selects the first defense and the first kicker; also he is the one who misses the playoffs every year and then blames injuries, bad luck, scheduling, or other reasons ( :ptts: ).

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
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I saw a lot of McNair as a young quarterback and he was definitely erratic in the passing game to start his career. (The Moniker) 'Air' McNair seemed laughable his first few seasons as a starter and it was his legs and rushing ability that made him into a viable fantasy quarterback. His completion percentage wasn't great, he didn't get the ball down the field very effectively and he didn't have a lot of passing touchdowns.However looking at the stats, I believe I may have had expectations that were too high in regards to McNair whom I liked coming out. He didn't have the impact in the passing game I hoped he would and I erred when I said Vick iis much more polished than McNair at this point. In reality Vick is pretty much on par with what McNair accomplished in his first five seasons in passing, rushing and fantasy points.

GP Y/A .PCT C A PY PT Ic RuY RTD

59 6.7 0.562 821 1461 9838 50 36 1786 22

58 6.7 0.541 726 1342 9031 51 39 2831 19

------------

QB Steve McNair

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

1995 0 42 433

1996 0 33 324

1997 56 5 28

1998 57 4 23

1999 0 12 75

QB Michael Vick

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

2001 0 33 467

2002 66 3 20

2003 0 39 457

2004 0 12 75

2005 2 10 72

--------------------------------------------------

The point to take home from this is Vick doesn't need monster passing numbers to be an elite fantasy player. He has already finished 3rd at the position while McNair had two top-five seasons in his first five with pedestrian passing stats.

 
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Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.
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But part of the problem with those comparisons is that (with the possible exception of Plummer) those were guys who hadn't cashed in with $100m deals. They weren't 1.1 draft picks. They weren't told they were the saviours of the franchise. They were struggling to make it big and they fought and clawed to improve their games as QBs and prove themselves capable of being a reliable starting QB. I think a lot of people get the impression that Vick does not see a need to improve his game, particularly in the passing game. When asked about how to be better, he says injuries kept him from running as much as he would like last year. He has tremendous ability as a runner, but it takes a terrible toll physically. To maximize his abilities, particularly over the long term, he needs to improve his passing before his running ability is beaten out of him, and many people just don't see him attempting to do this. The impression is that he thinks he's better than he really is and isn't working nearly as hard to improve as the guys you mentioned.

 
In my mind (from a fantasy perspective) what seperates McNabb from Vick.....................consistency. I really don't need a QB to finish in the top 5 or top 10 just give me some consistency, some stability and Vick has yet to show that.

For every one game Vick "can" win for you, he'll lose three. :football:
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that is what makes a good qb vs a bad qb period.i guess 10yrs in the league people will think he is still in the learning process..

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.
Click to expand...
But part of the problem with those comparisons is that (with the possible exception of Plummer) those were guys who hadn't cashed in with $100m deals. They weren't 1.1 draft picks. They weren't told they were the saviours of the franchise. They were struggling to make it big and they fought and clawed to improve their games as QBs and prove themselves capable of being a reliable starting QB. I think a lot of people get the impression that Vick does not see a need to improve his game, particularly in the passing game. When asked about how to be better, he says injuries kept him from running as much as he would like last year. He has tremendous ability as a runner, but it takes a terrible toll physically. To maximize his abilities, particularly over the long term, he needs to improve his passing before his running ability is beaten out of him, and many people just don't see him attempting to do this. The impression is that he thinks he's better than he really is and isn't working nearly as hard to improve as the guys you mentioned.
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People love to tear down people who are young and successful. Despite the enormous pressure of being the #1 pick and having to become a starter very early, Vick has actually done very well. I think we'll always have the discussion of whether his running ability is holding him back from developing as a passer but he's still so young that it's difficult to tell. IMO, he knows that he needs to work on his passing and is doing so but it's not something he wants to bring up in public since he gets so much flak for his passing. So instead he talks about not being able to run, which infuriates fans who want him to focus on improving as a passer. There's absolutely no way Vick doesn't hear about his passing every day of his life.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
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In McNair's first full season in 1997, he completed 52% of his passes. He was 24 - the same age Vick was in 2004 when he completed 56% of his passes. McNair was a more complete passer, but don't exaggerate the difference.
 
If Michael Vick fell to me in the last couple of rounds of my draft, then I would probably consider taking him on the off chance that he finally gets it. I am not drinking his Kool-Aid though ... He really is way too close to Kordell Stewart for my comfort ...

Last year he played in 15 games and he only broke 200 yards 4 times.

In my league, he was ranked only 17th overall [ppg]. We weight the mistakes more heavily than most leagues and a player is assessed -3 points for each turnover [interception or Fumble].

For my blood pressure, he is a yo-yo; equally probable for providing 5 points or 25 points with no real indicator of how for which side to lean.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
Click to expand...
In McNair's first full season in 1997, he completed 52% of his passes. He was 24 - the same age Vick was in 2004 when he completed 56% of his passes. McNair was a more complete passer, but don't exaggerate the difference.
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So McNair's first season as a starter he only completed 4% less passes than Vick who has been a started for more than 4 years. Also did you notice that McNair and Vick both threw 14 INTs the only problem is MCNair was in his FIRST year and Vick is Fourth. So by the way things are progressing Mcnair = (Vick * 4) , so when Vick is in the league 16 years he should be able to match mcnair in his fourth. Sounds like a value pick to me.
 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.

I see Vick like young Steve McNair...

In 1997 McNair completed only 216 of 415 attempts for 2665 yards and 14 touchdowns yet finished as the 5th best quarterback. Why? Because he rushed for 674 yards and 8 touchdowns...

Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.

I see no reason why Vick won't have his finest season yet (if he can stay healthy which is the red-flag for all mobile quarterbacks)
Click to expand...
i don't get it, those guys you listed off can't be compared to Vick, they do one thing that Vick doesn't.......throw...... ;)
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Vick can throw better then ELI. And people seem to want to put him in the top 5 QBs. Vick will be fine. He wins far more games then he loses. Vick isn't, and never was, the problem with the Falcons.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
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Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
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You've got to be kidding?By that logic, Eli is worse then Randle El. When Eli (who gets tons of love) can pass as well as Vick, get back to me.

(and Eli's 52% is inflated from dump offs to Tiki)

 
As exciting as Michael Vick is to watch, NFL teams have figured out how to play against him.

He is no longer the threat that he was in 2002 when no one knew what to expect or how to contain him [nor did they have the personnel to execute a plan even if they had one].

Defenses now know that he has limitations; they have exposed them and they have geared up with personnel to execute a plan against Vick's weaknesses.

Vick will average 17.5 ppg and finish with a maximum of 280 total Fantasy points in a standard scoring format.

You cannot turn an apple into an orange and Vick's strength his is running; until Atlanta can figure out how to utilize this more effectively, teams are going to force him to pass the ball and he will not be able to do it. IMHO, they should use a dose of "Slash" in the mix and line-up Vick in the slot or such with Schaub behind center ...

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
Click to expand...
In McNair's first full season in 1997, he completed 52% of his passes. He was 24 - the same age Vick was in 2004 when he completed 56% of his passes. McNair was a more complete passer, but don't exaggerate the difference.
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So McNair's first season as a starter he only completed 4% less passes than Vick who has been a started for more than 4 years. Also did you notice that McNair and Vick both threw 14 INTs the only problem is MCNair was in his FIRST year and Vick is Fourth. So by the way things are progressing Mcnair = (Vick * 4) , so when Vick is in the league 16 years he should be able to match mcnair in his fourth. Sounds like a value pick to me.
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Ok, how about this then;McNair's completion % his 1st full year starting- 1997 16 games started = 52.0%

Vick's completion % his 1st full year starting - 2002 15 games started = 54.9%

Is that better?

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
Click to expand...
In McNair's first full season in 1997, he completed 52% of his passes. He was 24 - the same age Vick was in 2004 when he completed 56% of his passes. McNair was a more complete passer, but don't exaggerate the difference.
Click to expand...
So McNair's first season as a starter he only completed 4% less passes than Vick who has been a started for more than 4 years. Also did you notice that McNair and Vick both threw 14 INTs the only problem is MCNair was in his FIRST year and Vick is Fourth. So by the way things are progressing Mcnair = (Vick * 4) , so when Vick is in the league 16 years he should be able to match mcnair in his fourth. Sounds like a value pick to me.
Click to expand...
Ok, how about this then;McNair's completion % his 1st full year starting- 1997 16 games started = 52.0%

Vick's completion % his 1st full year starting - 2002 15 games started = 54.9%

Is that better?
Click to expand...
How about this:McNair has not given anyone an incurable venereal disease.

Also McNair is a drop back QB who runs when he has no other option while Vick it seems looked to Crumpler and if covered runs. McNair read defenses while Vick plays the game like he is on the sandlot playground. But all in all Vick is too inconsisitant and injury prone to be a good fantasy QB.

 
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I forgot one other important item ...

Michael Vick has historically been among the leagues worst performers with respect to developing sustained drives; a clear result of his poor completion percentage [nearly a 50-50 proposition. Last year for instance he led the Falcons to the bottom 3rd of the NFL in drives resulting in 3 and outs.

 
Right now Vick is a lower tier QB. Vicks stats and rating put him in the 24-32 range.

If they can get Vick even to be a top 20 QB it will help the Falcons.

 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Where believe Vick is getting a bum rap is this...Where do you rank Jake Delhomme? He didn't emerge as a starter UNTIL he was 28 years old and had thrown only 86 total passes before that time

How about Trent Green? He also was 28 and had thrown just one pass up until that point.

Jake Plummer had six years in Arizona and had one top-ten finish and only one other in the top-fifteen.

Rich Gannon didn't make his mark until he was 34-years old.

Kurt Warner was also 28-years old before he made his mark........

Brad Johnson was 28-years old before he made his mark....

Even Matt Hasselbeck was 26-years old before getting his chance.

........

Think of Michael Vick as a young quarterback who has been learning his craft while playing the game instead of waiting six years just to get his chance. Would you take Michael Vick's first five years or anyone of the quarterbacks listed above.

Sure his passing has been erratic but more erratic than any of the others above? I doubt it.

I see Vick like young Steve McNair...

In 1997 McNair completed only 216 of 415 attempts for 2665 yards and 14 touchdowns yet finished as the 5th best quarterback. Why? Because he rushed for 674 yards and 8 touchdowns...

Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.

I see no reason why Vick won't have his finest season yet (if he can stay healthy which is the red-flag for all mobile quarterbacks)
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:goodposting: I've always been a disciple of the age 30 rule for QBs, which is when they typically hit their stride. :thumbup:
 
To summarize the initial article, the newly hired QB coach is praising the starting QB, who happens to be the franchise player on the team.

Now exactly what are we supposed to get from all of this?

 
To summarize the initial article, the newly hired QB coach is praising the starting QB, who happens to be the franchise player on the team.

Now exactly what are we supposed to get from all of this?
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i think what we should get from this is when the qb coach has to praise vick on things like showing up on time he is really looking for something positive to say about what he has to believe will continue being a very disappointing qb.
 
Vick goes like this:

Injury-plagued year, unproductive year, injury-plagued year, decent year, unproductive year

He is due for another injury-plagued year.
Click to expand...
Vick is more polished than McNair was by a large margin at this time and his rushing ability is better.
Click to expand...
Please tell me this is a joke. Please. Vick is no where near the QB that McNair was in is first season. Vick is not a QB, he is a fast guy that makes plays but he is not a QB and he never will be. I am thoroughly convinced that if Randle El had been able to stay at QB, he would be just as effective.
Click to expand...
In McNair's first full season in 1997, he completed 52% of his passes. He was 24 - the same age Vick was in 2004 when he completed 56% of his passes. McNair was a more complete passer, but don't exaggerate the difference.
Click to expand...
So McNair's first season as a starter he only completed 4% less passes than Vick who has been a started for more than 4 years. Also did you notice that McNair and Vick both threw 14 INTs the only problem is MCNair was in his FIRST year and Vick is Fourth. So by the way things are progressing Mcnair = (Vick * 4) , so when Vick is in the league 16 years he should be able to match mcnair in his fourth. Sounds like a value pick to me.
Click to expand...
Ok, how about this then;McNair's completion % his 1st full year starting- 1997 16 games started = 52.0%

Vick's completion % his 1st full year starting - 2002 15 games started = 54.9%

Is that better?
Click to expand...
How about this:McNair has not given anyone an incurable venereal disease.

Also McNair is a drop back QB who runs when he has no other option while Vick it seems looked to Crumpler and if covered runs. McNair read defenses while Vick plays the game like he is on the sandlot playground. But all in all Vick is too inconsisitant and injury prone to be a good fantasy QB.
Click to expand...
How about this:I'm not sure how this changes the fact that McNair's 1st year starting, after learning at the Pro level for 2 years, was worse than Vick's 1st year starting, after learning at the Pro level for one year. :shrug:

 
New quarterback coach Bill Musgrave said his early take on quarterback Michael Vick has been positive. Vick has shown up at meetings on time.
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Wow. He has shown up to meetings on time. Awesome.I will now pencil him in as my #1 targeted QB for next year's draft. Most QBs don't get the whole "showing up to meetings on time" thing until year 7 or 8.

Vick is nothing more than a glorfied RB. He will never be a star QB. Ever.

:X

 
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