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Top 10 RBs (1 Viewer)

dgreen

Footballguy
We've all heard that about half of the top 10 RBs change every year. But, what I wondered was, "Where do those 5 RBs come from?" I mean, it's nice to know that half change, but even nicer if you know where to look for those guys.

From 1990-2005, there were 160 top 10 RBs. Of those 160, 86 were not in the top 10 in the prior year. So, where were they in year n-1?

Rank Count11-20 3221-30 931-50 1251+ 17College 16Over half (48 of 86) were either ranked 11-20 or in the previous year or they are now rookies. Here are the rookies (I know McGahee technically wasn't a rookie in 2004):Willis McGahee 2004

Clinton Portis 2002

Ladainian Tomlinson 2001

Mike Anderson 2000

Edgerrin James 1999

Fred Taylor 1998

Robert Edwards 1998

Corey Dillon 1997

Eddie George 1996

Karim Abdul-Jabbar 1996

Curtis Martin 1995

Marshall Faulk 1994

Jerome Bettis 1993

Terry Kirby 1993

Ricky Watters 1992

Emmitt Smith 1990

Most of these were fairly predictable, IMO. Not many of these guys came out of nowhere. Mike Anderson, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, and Terry Kirby were most likely the biggest surprises.

So, if we can look at last year's 11-20 and this year's rookies for half of these guys, that still leaves a couple spots open from last year's 21+.

Here's the prior year 21-30 guys:

Larry Johnson 2005

Edgerrin James 2003

Travis Henry 2002

Fred Taylor 2000

Robert Smith 2000

Napolean Kaufman 1997

Natrone Means 1994

Christian Okoye 1991

Marion Butts 1990

Other than Kaufman, these guys didn't really come out of nowhere. They were guys coming off injury with previous success, second year guys who were handed over the reins after decent rookie years, or a guy (LJ) that was a hot commodity in drafts.

Here's the prior year 31-50 guys:

Lamont Jordan 2005

Mike Anderson 2005

Corey Dillon 2004

Priest Holmes 2001

Antowain Smith 2001

Charlie Garner 1999

Jerome Bettis 1996

Marcus Allen 1993

Barry Foster 1992

Terry Allen 1992

Lorenzo White 1992

Rodney Hampton 1991

Several of these were predictable because they were known talents who changed teams (Jordan, Dillon, Holmes, and Bettis).

Here's the prior year 51+ guys:

Deuce McAllister 2002

Shaun Alexander 2001

Ahman Green 2000

Stephen Davis 1999

Dorsey Levens 1999

Jamal Anderson 1996

Derek Loville 1995

Leroy Hoard 1994

Harvey Williams 1994

Leonard Russell 1993

Gary Brown 1993

Erric Pegram 1993

Cleveland Gary 1992

Robert Delpino 1991

Derrick Fenner 1990

Cleveland Gary 1990

Lorenzo White 1990

This scenario seems to be decreasing, with only three cases in the last 6 years. I don't remember the circumstances behind many of the earlier situations (please post if you know). The more recent situations (Stephen Davis up to Deuce McAllister) are guys who were backups the previous year on, at the very least, average offenses and named the starter prior to the season.

So, where does that leave us? For this year's top 10, we will probably see 5 from last year's top 10, 2 from 11-20, 2 from 21+ (probably a guy that was low because of injury or just waiting in the wings), and one rookie.

Not sure if this will help any. I wasn't really surprised by the results. As we all know, you still have to pick "the right guy" out of the many available.

Other side notes I found. Only once has the #1 RB come from outside the prior year's top 7 and that was a well-known rookie (Edgerrin James 1999). A rookie has been in the top 10 in 13 of the last 16 years. Two of those three years it didn't happen have been in the last three years. Three times there have been two rookies and never more than two.

 
Very interesting topic...

But... the underlying idea is... post the top10 for this upcoming year! :P

To do this exercise... dgreen, would you post last year's top10, 21-30, etc. (from your scoring system) so we can pick them (5 from the top10, 2 from 11-20, 2 from 21-30 and one rookie) with explanations obvisouly...

That should be fun...

 
dgreen, would you post last year's top10, 21-30, etc. (from your scoring system)
I was just using FBG basic scoring and here's the top 60 from Pro Football Reference:1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

31 Kevin Jones

32 Priest Holmes

33 Fred Taylor

34 Kevan Barlow

35 Marion Barber III

36 Jerome Bettis

37 T.J. Duckett

38 Frank Gore

39 Michael Bennett

40 Antowain Smith

41 Greg Jones

42 Michael Pittman

43 Chester Taylor

44 Jonathan Wells

45 Chris Perry

46 Mike Alstott

47 Artose Pinner

48 Marcel Shipp

49 Patrick Pass

50 Shawn Bryson

51 Tony Fisher

52 Aaron Stecker

53 Marshall Faulk

54 Deuce McAllister

55 J.J. Arrington

56 Verron Haynes

57 Adrian Peterson

58 Ladell Betts

59 Maurice Hicks

60 Kyle Johnson

 
dgreen, would you post last year's top10, 21-30, etc. (from your scoring system)
I was just using FBG basic scoring and here's the top 60 from Pro Football Reference:11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown
Steven Jackson and Cadillac Williams are definitely going to be the popular picks here to jump into the top 10.
 
Not to take anything from your research, but over the years I have concluded that Top 10 RB come from "the land of good health."

There were 78 times that a RB had 350 touches in the past 10 years. 66 of them ranked in the Top 10. The lowest ranking of a guy with 350 touches in that time was 19th. On average, that group of RBs ranked 6th. Overall, in that 10 year stretch, a guy with 350 touches was Top 10 85% of the time.

So to reverse engineer this, we need to identify guys that have solid health in situations that can support a RB getting 350 touches.

 
Interesting analysis. I'm slightly surprised that there are more guys from the 51+ than from the rookie pool. Despite your commentary, I don't think the guys coming from 51+ are decreasing any more than the rookies: both have five since 1999, and none in 2003 or 2005.

I'll throw in some commentary on the 51+ crowd.

 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...

 
Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado
Actually, this group needs to be expanded to everyone not in another group. And, these two RBs are almost as likely to come from 51+ (17 RBs) as they are 21-50 (21 RBs).
 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
And by default, also explain the 5 that drop out too. Very useful stuff here. :thumbup: I'll post mine later.
 
Deuce McAllister 2002 (Ricky Williams trade)

Shaun Alexander 2001 (Ricky Waters injury)

Ahman Green 2000 (traded to GB from Sea)

Stephen Davis 1999 (Terry Allen left Was; Skip Hicks injury)

Dorsey Levens 1999 (3rd FF RB in 1997; injured in 1998)

Jamal Anderson 1996 (third year RB; took the job from Ironhead Heyward)

Derek Loville 1995 (Ricky Watters left to Sea; Loville was a great receiver)

Leroy Hoard 1994 (Browns finally realized Hoard >>> 1st round pick Tommy Vardell)

Harvey Williams 1994 (Moved from Kansas City to Oakland)

Leonard Russell 1993 (Parcells came to NE; injury plagued 1992)

Gary Brown 1993 (Run N' Shoot Oiler; Lorenzo White injury)

Erric Pegram 1993 (added Lincoln Kennedy; other three RBs from '92 were injured/left)

Cleveland Gary 1992 (6th FF RB in 1990; injured in 1991)

Robert Delpino 1991 (see above: Cleveland Gary was injured in 1991)

Derrick Fenner 1990 (2nd year player; Curt Warner left)

Cleveland Gary 1990 (2nd year player; Greg Bell left)

Lorenzo White 1990 (2nd year player; Alonzo Highsmith left; Jack Pardee and the Run N' Shoot arrived)

 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
Hey Jay-Man,This is a very easy trap to fall into because it seems to jive with our intuition about how to use this data. Unfortunately, making projections based on the breakdowns you listed above will assuredly lead to worse projections (over time) than the traditional approach.

It's important to "know" the trends in FF and to understand how half the top 10 changes every year. But your pre-season projections are not intended to mirror the post-season results -- even though you might think they should -- but rather are supposed to represent your most accurate expectations for a player.

Surely you wouldn't rank any two from that 21-30 group over five guys from that 1-10 group.

 
I'll play.

So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson- Herman Edwards offense proves to be much less effective than the previous regime's offense

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber- Age finally catches him

5 Edgerrin James- Arizona isn't Indiana

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones- Benson becomes a bigger factor

10 Mike Anderson- Splits time with Jamal

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson Solid Top 10 canidate

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis Suprise return to top 10

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones TO opens things up, MBarber falls off a cliff?

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown Best candidate in this range

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White Shocks us all

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
Hey Jay-Man,This is a very easy trap to fall into because it seems to jive with our intuition about how to use this data. Unfortunately, making projections based on the breakdowns you listed above will assuredly lead to worse projections (over time) than the traditional approach.

It's important to "know" the trends in FF and to understand how half the top 10 changes every year. But your pre-season projections are not intended to mirror the post-season results -- even though you might think they should -- but rather are supposed to represent your most accurate expectations for a player.

Surely you wouldn't rank any two from that 21-30 group over five guys from that 1-10 group.
Chase, I'm well aware of this - and thank you for the reminder... I was just playing along with dgreen's original post... and to see how people would analyse "the trends"... why would Edge fall that much in 'zona? why is DeAngelo Williams a better pick this year than Reggie Bush? who from Dom Davis or Willis, would you think as the better chance to go back to top10?...

I definitely am not saying that I would rank Dom Davis and LenDale White ahead of Tiki and Edge simply because "history says so"... I don't want this to become a "shock thread" ala ESPN projections... :P

 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber - gets nudged out of top 10

5 Edgerrin James - Arizona

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan - gets nudged out of top 10

9 Thomas Jones - too many 3 & outs limits his touches. Benson steals time, tougher division = less games where the defense can hold a lead for them.

10 Mike Anderson - He's not in Denver anymore, and he's ~ 34

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis - He prosered in the decrepit Texans offense last year. Put him in a Denver-type situation and imagine what he can do.

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams Overworked by Gruden at the beginning of last season. They'll keep him to 20-25 touches/game to avoid injury.

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell - gets the lions' share of the carries by mid season

23 Ronnie Brown - full workload + more explosive offense

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney - takes over for aging Dillon early in season, never looks back

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
 
I was just playing along with dgreen's original post... and to see how people would analyse "the trends"...
I just decided to look into it this morning. Once I finished, I figured I might as well post it. Like I said, nothing really amazed me in the results. I was just hoping somebody else would be able to see the list of names that made the jump and find some common reason.It could be exactly what Yudkin suggests: they just happened to be players who stay healthy while others go down with an injury. :shrug:

Anyways, just for kicks, I'll have a thread for QBs in a little bit. Not sure if I'll get to WRs or TEs today.

 
According to Historical Data Dominator, last year there would have been 7 or 8 top ten running backs that were top ten running backs in 2004 if there wasn't injuries. Westbrook, Davis, and Dillon would have fought to be top ten over Thomas Jones and Mike Anderson if they would have had a 14 to 16 game season. You can't project top ten fantasy backs with only five returners from 2005 because typically that will only happen if a few of those backs miss 3+ games.

So basically, mentioning only top 5 returns over and over again is completely useless. If I have the same top ten as last year, don't tell me only 5 will repeat. Tell me which players aren't likely to do that well and which players are likely to do better. The "only 5 top returns" helps just those people who are not really taking a good look at the offseason changes.

 
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Mine:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

6 Clinton Portis

8 Lamont Jordan

11 Steven Jackson

17 Domanick Davis

23 Ronnie Brown

43 Chester Taylor

Rookie - D. Williams

It was hard for me to take Tiki and Rudi out of the top 10, but somebody had to go. I also liked Westbrook from the next 10, but liked the other two more. Brown and Taylor were easy choices for me in the last 40 players, although I think Jamal and Kevin Jones both have a shot…Rookie is really tough. I can see it being any of the 4 first-rounders, with Maroney the longest shot because of competition.

 
Surely you wouldn't rank any two from that 21-30 group over five guys from that 1-10 group.
I'm of the opinion that you have to take chances to win a league. That doesn't mean you have to draft a Tatum Bell in the top 10, just that you might want to jump on him before someone else does. SOMEONE will hit on a top 10 RB later than round 2. If you aren't that person, you may be in trouble.Same philosophy with Final Four Brackets. I used to not pick many upsets because if I picked the wrong upset then I've missed two games (the one I picked and the one I didn't pick). I figured since I didn't know enough to pick the upset, I would play it safe. But, that doesn't work because someone will pick the right upsets. Therefore, I have to try and pick the right upsets or I have no chance.

 
Surely you wouldn't rank any two from that 21-30 group over five guys from that 1-10 group.
I'm of the opinion that you have to take chances to win a league. That doesn't mean you have to draft a Tatum Bell in the top 10, just that you might want to jump on him before someone else does. SOMEONE will hit on a top 10 RB later than round 2. If you aren't that person, you may be in trouble.Same philosophy with Final Four Brackets. I used to not pick many upsets because if I picked the wrong upset then I've missed two games (the one I picked and the one I didn't pick). I figured since I didn't know enough to pick the upset, I would play it safe. But, that doesn't work because someone will pick the right upsets. Therefore, I have to try and pick the right upsets or I have no chance.
I don't believe any of that is true.
 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Ron Dayne

Chester Taylor

Cedric Benson

Explanations...
 
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I was just playing along with dgreen's original post... and to see how people would analyse "the trends"...
I just decided to look into it this morning. Once I finished, I figured I might as well post it. Like I said, nothing really amazed me in the results. I was just hoping somebody else would be able to see the list of names that made the jump and find some common reason.It could be exactly what Yudkin suggests: they just happened to be players who stay healthy while others go down with an injury. :shrug:

Anyways, just for kicks, I'll have a thread for QBs in a little bit. Not sure if I'll get to WRs or TEs today.
BTW, I looked into this same exact subject awhile ago, more on a Top 5 basis HERE. If you go back to the 2004 archieve, there's another article on Top 5 QB as well.
 
Shaun Alexander

Larry Johnson

LaDainian Tomlinson

Tiki Barber

Clinton Portis

Steven Jackson

Willis McGahee

Ronnie Brown

Tatum Bell

Reggie Bush

this was very intereseting to do trying to FOLLOW the guide lines. it has really made me look back over my own projections

 
The last two posts by dgreen and boubucarow are very interesting...

Of course, I asked people to list 5 of the top10 they think would repeat for the sake of it... and not wanting to foresse all the information available - the point here is not to rank them up... it's just to see, in everyone's opinion, who (that had a very good year in 2005) might not do so well in 2006 because of a multitude of factors...

On the other hand, like dgreen mentioned... every year, you can look at ADP afterwards or at the projections - and you can say "wow, this guy was overlooked" - think Steve Smith last year... then, why not try and see who might be this year's RB that you can grab in the 4th - 5th and get 1300yds out of him (ala Droughns)...

I'm not saying, grab C. Taylor with the 16th pick in your draft... but, as history has shown us (let's not be ignorant about this), there will be a guy (if not a few)... that will jump out of his ADP... will it be Frank Gore? DeShaun Foster? Maurice Drew? else?...

Let's just try and think outside the box and not debate again and again as who from LJ, LT or SA should be #1... for the sake of it...

 
According to Historical Data Dominator, last year there would have been 7 or 8 top ten running backs that were top ten running backs in 2004 if there wasn't injuries. Westbrook, Davis, and Dillon would have fought to be top ten over Thomas Jones and Mike Anderson if they would have had a 14 to 16 game season. You can't project top ten fantasy backs with only five returners from 2005 because typically that will only happen if a few of those backs miss 3+ games.
Here are the number of RBs returning to the top 10 (2005...1990): 5, 3, 6, 4, 3, 6, 4, 5, 6, 5, 7, 3, 3, 5, 5, 4.So, I think it's safe to say you can project that only five will return to the top 10. 11 of the last 16 years have had 4-6 return. Whether it's injury, or some other factor, it does appear to happen over and over again. That still leaves the trick of figuring out which ones and maybe ranking some guys lower on your list to take a risk on in a particular round.

Does anyone assign some type of risk factor to their rankings? It seems our rankings are typically measured by what we expect and may not include our optimistic and pessimistic rankings. That usually seems to be done off the top of our head rather than with actual numbers.

An easy way to incorporate risk into your projections is to use this simple forumla (taught in project management as an easy way to estimate time and cost of a project):

(Optimistic + (4*Most likely) + Pessimistic)/6

So, take the following stats:

Most likely - 1700 yards, 11 TDs = 236 fp

Optimistic - 2200 yards, 16 TDs = 316 fp

Pessimistic - 1500 yards, 8 TDs = 198 pts

Put those points into the forumla and you actually come up with 243 points, higher than your most likely. If you think someone else may have this guy pegged more towards your optimistic, you aren't going to get him if you sit back on your Most Likely projections.

 
Surely you wouldn't rank any two from that 21-30 group over five guys from that 1-10 group.
I'm of the opinion that you have to take chances to win a league. That doesn't mean you have to draft a Tatum Bell in the top 10, just that you might want to jump on him before someone else does. SOMEONE will hit on a top 10 RB later than round 2. If you aren't that person, you may be in trouble.Same philosophy with Final Four Brackets. I used to not pick many upsets because if I picked the wrong upset then I've missed two games (the one I picked and the one I didn't pick). I figured since I didn't know enough to pick the upset, I would play it safe. But, that doesn't work because someone will pick the right upsets. Therefore, I have to try and pick the right upsets or I have no chance.
I don't believe any of that is true.
I guarantee the bolded part is true. :P
 
I was just playing along with dgreen's original post... and to see how people would analyse "the trends"...
I just decided to look into it this morning. Once I finished, I figured I might as well post it. Like I said, nothing really amazed me in the results. I was just hoping somebody else would be able to see the list of names that made the jump and find some common reason.It could be exactly what Yudkin suggests: they just happened to be players who stay healthy while others go down with an injury. :shrug:

Anyways, just for kicks, I'll have a thread for QBs in a little bit. Not sure if I'll get to WRs or TEs today.
BTW, I looked into this same exact subject awhile ago, more on a Top 5 basis HERE. If you go back to the 2004 archieve, there's another article on Top 5 QB as well.
Thanks. I'll have to read that.
 
So, basically, the idea is...

Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander (but watch the wear and tear)

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber - age 31 ...sorry!

5 Edgerrin James - too many red zone targets

6 Clinton Portis

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan - 3.8 ypc is weak

9 Thomas Jones - hi, Cedric

10 Mike Anderson - bye, old man!

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson (#11 on 254 carries)

12 Warrick Dunn - older, will share with Norwood

13 Willis McGahee - also 3.8 ypc

14 Reuben Droughns - still a weak offense

15 Willie Parker (if he can handle more than 255 carries)

16 Corey Dillon - hi, LM

17 Domanick Davis - a 2004 year or 2005?

18 Brian Westbrook - nope

19 Cadillac Williams - just 4.0 ypc (surprised me)

20 Chris Brown - hi, LenDale

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown (steps in)

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado (steps up)

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

Explanations...
I can rather easily envision the historical pattern holding. Interesting topic!
 
One of the errors involved here is taking "the field" (i.e., RB 21-30) over every individual RB from 1-10. Of course some of the longshots will beat some of the favorites; but most of them won't.

An improved model would look to see what percentage of RBX from each year is in the top ten. I'd imagine then that the Year N+1 ranking of all RB1-10 is greater than the Year N+1 ranking of all RB21-30.

A 20 year timeframe would be a good start.

 
Of course some of the longshots will beat some of the favorites; but most of them won't.
And the questions are: Is that longshot going to be on my team or someone else's team? How do I get that longshot on my team? Is it just luck? Is it a complete guessing game or is there something there we can grab onto and identify who is more likely to make that jump?
 
Of course some of the longshots will beat some of the favorites; but most of them won't.
And the questions are: Is that longshot going to be on my team or someone else's team? How do I get that longshot on my team? Is it just luck? Is it a complete guessing game or is there something there we can grab onto and identify who is more likely to make that jump?
I don't think anyone's advocating not trying to figure out which RBs will make the big jump. It's just as silly to say Frank Gore won't be top ten this year because he wasn't top ten last year as it is to say Frank Gore will be top ten this year because two RBs will be huge surprises.
 
Select 5 from:

Only injury will prevent top three from making it again

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

4 Tiki Barber - Tough to leave off - law of averages for a down year is only reason for him to not make the cut

5 Edgerrin James - Arz ain't Indy

6 Clinton Portis - Talent & opportunity, he's likely to repeat

7 Rudi Johnson - Perry steals enough to knock him out of top 10

8 Lamont Jordan - No competition for touches

9 Thomas Jones - Benson gets enough to knock him out of top ten

10 Mike Anderson - Obvious

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson - It's his team now

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis

18 Brian Westbrook - If he stays healthy, hell be top 10

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones - Just a hunch, but I think Parcells will use him a ton

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown - Workload is all his

24 DeShaun Foster

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush

Deangelo Williams - Foster always gets hurt, perfect spot for Williams to put up stats

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

 
It's just as silly to say Frank Gore won't be top ten this year because he wasn't top ten last year as it is to say Frank Gore will be top ten this year because two RBs will be huge surprises.
:thumbup: I agree.The answer, if there is one, isn't in the surface data. It's much deeper.

 
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Deuce McAllister 2002 (Ricky Williams trade)

Shaun Alexander 2001 (Ricky Waters injury)

Ahman Green 2000 (traded to GB from Sea)

Stephen Davis 1999 (Terry Allen left Was; Skip Hicks injury)

Dorsey Levens 1999 (3rd FF RB in 1997; injured in 1998)

Jamal Anderson 1996 (third year RB; took the job from Ironhead Heyward)

Derek Loville 1995 (Ricky Watters left to Sea; Loville was a great receiver)

Leroy Hoard 1994 (Browns finally realized Hoard >>> 1st round pick Tommy Vardell)

Harvey Williams 1994 (Moved from Kansas City to Oakland)

Leonard Russell 1993 (Parcells came to NE; injury plagued 1992)

Gary Brown 1993 (Run N' Shoot Oiler; Lorenzo White injury)

Erric Pegram 1993 (added Lincoln Kennedy; other three RBs from '92 were injured/left)

Cleveland Gary 1992 (6th FF RB in 1990; injured in 1991)

Robert Delpino 1991 (see above: Cleveland Gary was injured in 1991)

Derrick Fenner 1990 (2nd year player; Curt Warner left)

Cleveland Gary 1990 (2nd year player; Greg Bell left)

Lorenzo White 1990 (2nd year player; Alonzo Highsmith left; Jack Pardee and the Run N' Shoot arrived)
A little more info on these RBs.In year n-1, the team's had an average offensive ranking of 11.6. However, they had a below average rushing offensive ranking of only 18.9. So, these RBs were on a team that had a good offense the prior year, but only an average rushing game.

In year n-1, 8 of the teams used RBBC. Of those 8, two (Levens and Russell) had previous success and the prior year RBBC was due to their own injury.

In year n-1, 9 didn't use RBBC. The RBs for these 9 teams in year n-1 had an average RB ranking of 7.2 and the overall offense ranked 8.7. Deuce McAllister, Shaun Alexander, Ahman Green, Jamal Anderson, Derek Loville, Gary Brown, Cleveland Gary (2x), and Robert Delpino all took over for a productive RB who departed or was injured on a productive team. (Unfortunately, not many of them were the clear starter prior to the season, when we draft). We always have our eyes on situations like this (new RB taking over for a good RB on a good offense), but how often are they ranked anywhere near top 10? Should they be?

So, I decided to look into how often a top 10 RB leaves a team or is injured before the following season. I went back to 1980 and found 19 cases where a top 10 RB played for different team in year n+1 or did not play at all, making it clear the team would have a new starting RB prior to the season.

Team = Team, years n and n+1

Dept. Player = Top 10 RB who departed team in year n+1

DRB = Dept. Player's RB rank in year n

Off = Teams offensive ranking in year n

Incoming Player = RB who followed top 10 RB

IRB = Incoming Player's RB ranking in year n+1

Team Dept. Player DRB Off IRB Incoming Player Dolphins 03-04 Ricky Williams 9 24 35 Sammy Morris - RBBCBroncos 03-04 Clinton Portis 5 8 14 Reuben DroughnsSaints 01-02 Ricky Williams 8 8 6 Deuce McAllister49ers 00-01 Charlie Garner 9 4 12 Garrison HearstVikings 00-01 Robert Smith 7 5 29 Michael BennettColts 98-99 Marshall Faulk 3 16 1 Edgerrin James49ers 98-99 Garrison Hearst 5 1 7 Charlie GarnerPatriots 98-99 Robert Edwards 8 9 17 Terry AllenLions 98-99 Barry Sanders 10 14 43 Greg Hill - RBBCEagles 97-98 Ricky Watters 9 4 13 Duce Staley49ers 94-95 Ricky Watters 6 1 8 Derek LovillePatriots 93-94 Leonard Russell 6 15 25 Marion ButtsVikings 92-93 Terry Allen 4 10 51 Barry Word - RBBCVikings 91-92 Herschel Walker 8 14 4 Terry AllenRams 89-90 Greg Bell 7 4 6 Cleveland GaryChargers 84-85 Earnest Jackson 10 3 13 Lionel JamesBills 83-84 Joe Cribbs 7 26 12 Greg BellFalcons 83-84 William Andrews 2 8 5 Gerald RiggsRams 82-83 Wendell Tyler 2 9 1 Eric Dickerson8 times, the Incoming Player finished in the top 10. 6 times in 11-20. 2 times in 21-30. 3 times in 30+ and RBBC.Average RB ranking of Incoming Player = 15.9

Average RB ranking excluding RBBC = 10.8 - includes an injured rookie Michael Bennett (29) and an almost dead Marion Butts (25).

Interestingly, only a couple times (Edge and Dickerson) was the incoming Player a soon-to-be superstar. Several (Riggs, Bell, McAllister, Allen, Hearst) put together several good seasons, but weren't superstars.

Here's the Incoming Player's previous high RB ranking and their ranking as the Incoming Player (IRB):

Player High IRBSammy Morris – RBBC 33 35Reuben Droughns 92 14Deuce McAllister 64 6Garrison Hearst 5 12Michael Bennett R 29Edgerrin James R 1Charlie Garner 34 7Terry Allen 1999 1 17Greg Hill – RBBC 32 43Duce Staley 127 13Derek Loville 101 8Marion Butts 8 25Barry Word – RBBC 23 51Terry Allen 1992 43 4Cleveland Gary 94 6Lionel James 85 13Greg Bell R 12Gerald Riggs 26 5Eric Dickerson R 1I'm not sure what I'll take from all this. Maybe nothing. But, I would guess most people aren't too high on a previously below average RB taking over for a productive RB.I can't think of any examples (other than Indy and, to some extent, Denver) where we already know we'll see this in 2006. But, I'm keeping my eye out as the season approaches and I may not be so down on a RB in this situation. For example, where would most people rank Ladell Betts if Portis was injured tomorrow?

 
Mine

Alexander- not top three but will stay top ten

Tomlinson- top two

LJ - with Edwards I think he drops but still top 7

Rudi- he consistant

Portis - with the wr help and the new offensive coaching help will shoot him to top 3

Mcgahee-talented back that went through a slump

Jackson- Also talented and maybe has a coach that will get him the ball now

Brown- Explosive offense will open it up for him

Jones- will be the guy and will be helped by TO

Addai -not too far off of an E.James and he IS in Indy

 
Addai -not too far off of an E.James and he IS in Indy
IF, and it's a big IF, Addai or Rhodes are crowned the full-time starter and 3-down back, I can see them in the top 10. However, I'm not sure that will happen and we might not know until the season starts.
 
Can we find a way to identify which teams have a better chance at putting their RBs in the top 10.

How about looking for correlations between

1) what teams supplied incoming top 10 and remaining top 10

2) if nothing from above, what team characteristics indicate producing these guys?

From something like this we can more readily identify the teams from yesterday supplying the RBs in the future top 10.

 
I think it's best to come up with a probability rating for the odds of hitting the top-10 in 2006.

2005 1-10

0.9 Tomlinson (every RB has about a 10% chance of getting injured)

0.8 SAlexander (OL change may be an issue)

0.8 LJohnson (has never been a 16-game starter; conservative coach arrives)

0.6 Portis (excellent track record)

0.5 Barber (age catching up to him; has not been regularly in the top ten)

0.4 Jordan (not likely to have as many receptions)

0.4 James (Arizona OL issues)

0.3 RJohnson (possible RBBC)

0.2 TJones (likely RBBC)

<0.1 MAnderson

----

4.9

2005 11-20

0.6 CWilliams (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 SJax (depends on how new coaching staff will use him)

0.3 McGahee (Buffalo can't be as bad as in 2005, can they?)

0.3 Droughns (Has the yards, now needs the TDs)

0.2 Westbrook (Philly has to run more than they did in 2005)

0.4 all others

----

2.1

2005 21+

0.4 RBrown (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 CTaylor (has confidence of new coach)

0.2 KJones (new coaching staff should shake things up)

0.2 CMartin (he did it in 2004 after all)

0.2 Bell (maybe he's more durable than we think)

0.4 all others

----

1.8

rookies

0.3 Addai (best situation, but does he have the talent?)

0.2 DWilliams (good situation, but Foster likely to get a lot of touches)

0.2 Bush (could be a monster if Deuce is slow in coming back from injury)

0.2 all others

----

0.9

Doesn't add up to exactly 10.0 but it's pretty close.

 
I think it's best to come up with a probability rating for the odds of hitting the top-10 in 2006.

2005 1-10

0.9 Tomlinson (every RB has about a 10% chance of getting injured)

0.8 SAlexander (OL change may be an issue)

0.8 LJohnson (has never been a 16-game starter; conservative coach arrives)

0.6 Portis (excellent track record)

0.5 Barber (age catching up to him; has not been regularly in the top ten)

0.4 Jordan (not likely to have as many receptions)

0.4 James (Arizona OL issues)

0.3 RJohnson (possible RBBC)

0.2 TJones (likely RBBC)

<0.1 MAnderson

----

4.9

2005 11-20

0.6 CWilliams (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 SJax (depends on how new coaching staff will use him)

0.3 McGahee (Buffalo can't be as bad as in 2005, can they?)

0.3 Droughns (Has the yards, now needs the TDs)

0.2 Westbrook (Philly has to run more than they did in 2005)

0.4 all others

----

2.1

2005 21+

0.4 RBrown (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 CTaylor (has confidence of new coach)

0.2 KJones (new coaching staff should shake things up)

0.2 CMartin (he did it in 2004 after all)

0.2 Bell (maybe he's more durable than we think)

0.4 all others

----

1.8

rookies

0.3 Addai (best situation, but does he have the talent?)

0.2 DWilliams (good situation, but Foster likely to get a lot of touches)

0.2 Bush (could be a monster if Deuce is slow in coming back from injury)

0.2 all others

----

0.9

Doesn't add up to exactly 10.0 but it's pretty close.
I like the probability angle, but I think you have to up DD's probability from within the others group. His PPG for his career have put him in the top 10 all 3 years and he has finished in the top 10 (5th in 2004) before.To have Caddy at 60% is a stretch if DD is less than that, since DD in 11 games last year on a decrepit Houston offense actually outscored Caddy in 14 games. Caddy has two question marks, he did get injured and his PPG were not even in top 10 range. With DD, if he plays 15 or 16 games, I think he is a lock in the top 10. Same with McGahee who has been outscored by DD the last 2 years 429 to 381 even though DD played in 6 less games.

I would say IMHO, that the guys in the 11-20 spot with the greatest probability of moving up are DD, SJ and Westbrook in that order because of their PPG production and propensity to miss games. I think in their cases, if they play 16 games, it will be hard for all 3 not to be top 10 (although not at the same time!).

 
I think it's best to come up with a probability rating for the odds of hitting the top-10 in 2006.

2005 1-10

0.9 Tomlinson (every RB has about a 10% chance of getting injured)

0.8 SAlexander (OL change may be an issue)

0.8 LJohnson (has never been a 16-game starter; conservative coach arrives)

0.6 Portis (excellent track record)

0.5 Barber (age catching up to him; has not been regularly in the top ten)

0.4 Jordan (not likely to have as many receptions)

0.4 James (Arizona OL issues)

0.3 RJohnson (possible RBBC)

0.2 TJones (likely RBBC)

<0.1 MAnderson

----

4.9

2005 11-20

0.6 CWilliams (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 SJax (depends on how new coaching staff will use him)

0.3 McGahee (Buffalo can't be as bad as in 2005, can they?)

0.3 Droughns (Has the yards, now needs the TDs)

0.2 Westbrook (Philly has to run more than they did in 2005)

0.4 all others

----

2.1

2005 21+

0.4 RBrown (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 CTaylor (has confidence of new coach)

0.2 KJones (new coaching staff should shake things up)

0.2 CMartin (he did it in 2004 after all)

0.2 Bell (maybe he's more durable than we think)

0.4 all others

----

1.8

rookies

0.3 Addai (best situation, but does he have the talent?)

0.2 DWilliams (good situation, but Foster likely to get a lot of touches)

0.2 Bush (could be a monster if Deuce is slow in coming back from injury)

0.2 all others

----

0.9

Doesn't add up to exactly 10.0 but it's pretty close.
More likely that SJax or Taylor finishes top 10 than Rudi or TJ? Or am I misunderstanding your system?
 
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I think it's best to come up with a probability rating for the odds of hitting the top-10 in 2006.

2005 1-10

0.9 Tomlinson (every RB has about a 10% chance of getting injured)

0.8 SAlexander (OL change may be an issue)

0.8 LJohnson (has never been a 16-game starter; conservative coach arrives)

0.6 Portis (excellent track record)

0.5 Barber (age catching up to him; has not been regularly in the top ten)

0.4 Jordan (not likely to have as many receptions)

0.4 James (Arizona OL issues)

0.3 RJohnson (possible RBBC)

0.2 TJones (likely RBBC)

<0.1 MAnderson

----

4.9

2005 11-20

0.6 CWilliams (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 SJax (depends on how new coaching staff will use him)

0.3 McGahee (Buffalo can't be as bad as in 2005, can they?)

0.3 Droughns (Has the yards, now needs the TDs)

0.2 Westbrook (Philly has to run more than they did in 2005)

0.4 all others

----

2.1

2005 21+

0.4 RBrown (if he can carry the load...)

0.4 CTaylor (has confidence of new coach)

0.2 KJones (new coaching staff should shake things up)

0.2 CMartin (he did it in 2004 after all)

0.2 Bell (maybe he's more durable than we think)

0.4 all others

----

1.8

rookies

0.3 Addai (best situation, but does he have the talent?)

0.2 DWilliams (good situation, but Foster likely to get a lot of touches)

0.2 Bush (could be a monster if Deuce is slow in coming back from injury)

0.2 all others

----

0.9

Doesn't add up to exactly 10.0 but it's pretty close.
More likely that SJax or Taylor finishes top 10 than Rudi or TJ? Or am I misunderstanding your system?
I agree that it is more likely that Sjax cracks the top ten than TJones. But those numbers are just his opinion. I think the point was more the likelihood between tiers of making the top 10. Very good post, IMO.
 
I like the probability angle, but I think you have to up DD's probability from within the others group. His PPG for his career have put him in the top 10 all 3 years and he has finished in the top 10 (5th in 2004) before.
You're probably right, but I'd be concerned about his lingering knee roblems. If he's 100% at the start of training camp, I'd up the odds.
 
More likely that SJax or Taylor finishes top 10 than Rudi or TJ? Or am I misunderstanding your system?
Yes, that's what I'm saying, though the difference between a 40% chance and a 30% chance is pretty small. Like JPJ said, it's just my opinion. I happen to be very high on CTaylor and very low on Rudi Johnson.
 
I'd take issue with any set of rankings that give Addai and Rudi Johnson the same odds at finishing in the top ten.

I understand what abrecher was trying to do, and I think he did a solid job projecting within the confines of that system. It's the system that's the problem of course.

 
I'd take issue with any set of rankings that give Addai and Rudi Johnson the same odds at finishing in the top ten.

I understand what abrecher was trying to do, and I think he did a solid job projecting within the confines of that system. It's the system that's the problem of course.
I do agree... I think you get percentage projections from the results of the choices - i.e. if 100 persons chose their top10 - then you can say that Rudi has a 43% chance of being in the top10... not the other way around...My 2 cents

 
Find the 2006 top10 RBs FFwise...

Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander - drops some but still top ten

2 Larry Johnson - likely #1

3 LaDainian Tomlinson - competes for #1

4 Tiki Barber

5 Edgerrin James

6 Clinton Portis - more TDs

7 Rudi Johnson

8 Lamont Jordan - still a lot of catches

9 Thomas Jones

10 Mike Anderson

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

12 Warrick Dunn

13 Willis McGahee

14 Reuben Droughns - just another good year

15 Willie Parker

16 Corey Dillon

17 Domanick Davis - nice OL improvement

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

20 Chris Brown

Select 2 from:

21 Julius Jones

22 Tatum Bell

23 Ronnie Brown - Saban's leader

24 DeShaun Foster - he's going to be a target for me, healthy year

25 Jamal Lewis

26 Stephen Davis

27 Ricky Williams

28 Mewelde Moore

29 Curtis Martin

30 Sam Gado

Select 1 rookie:

Reggie Bush Duece slow to return

Deangelo Williams

Laurence Maroney

LenDale White

Maurice Drew

Jerious Norwood

Brian Calhoun

(other)

 
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Select 5 from:

1 Shaun Alexander

2 Larry Johnson

3 LaDainian Tomlinson

6 Clinton Portis

8 Lamont Jordan

Select 2 from:

11 Steven Jackson

18 Brian Westbrook

19 Cadillac Williams

Select 2 from:

23 Ronnie Brown

Select 1 rookie:

LenDale White

 
Not to take anything from your research, but over the years I have concluded that Top 10 RB come from "the land of good health."

There were 78 times that a RB had 350 touches in the past 10 years. 66 of them ranked in the Top 10. The lowest ranking of a guy with 350 touches in that time was 19th. On average, that group of RBs ranked 6th. Overall, in that 10 year stretch, a guy with 350 touches was Top 10 85% of the time.

So to reverse engineer this, we need to identify guys that have solid health in situations that can support a RB getting 350 touches.
I'm interested in who those guys 29 guys were who finished #31+ the previous year.
 
Not to take anything from your research, but over the years I have concluded that Top 10 RB come from "the land of good health."

There were 78 times that a RB had 350 touches in the past 10 years.  66 of them ranked in the Top 10.  The lowest ranking of a guy with 350 touches in that time was 19th.  On average, that group of RBs ranked 6th.  Overall, in that 10 year stretch, a guy with 350 touches was Top 10 85% of the time.

So to reverse engineer this, we need to identify guys that have solid health in situations that can support a RB getting 350 touches.
I'm interested in who those guys 29 guys were who finished #31+ the previous year.
I'd be happy to list whatever you want, but where in my initial statement did I mention anything about 29 guys ranking #31+ the previous year?
 
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