Lelie >>> involved in a 3 way trade? (1 Viewer)

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network:

Also posted on the Broncos Message Board

and NFL.com under stories:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9482866

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Meanwhile in Denver, the Broncos could be getting closer to trading disgruntled wide receiver Ashley Lelie. A trade could be wrapped up within the next week that would be a three-team deal and land Denver a tight end.

A number of teams have shown renewed interest this week, according to one person close to the talks, and Lelie is desperate to get out of Denver, where he feels he cannot be the No. 1 receiver. He probably won't get a chance to be a No. 1 anywhere else either, even though he led the league in yards per catch last season. But he might have more of an opportunity in another city than he would in Denver.

Either way, the team that trades for Lelie is going to want to try to sign him to an extension, as his contract is scheduled to expire after this season.

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My guess is Daniel Graham of New England. Not sure how the 3rd team plays in, but Daniel Graham is being WASTED behind Watson and with the drafting of 2 tight ends, it makes sense to me.

We've already discussed that the Pats seem to be a nice fit for Lelie and his bad attitude. If he doesn't get his act together there, they'll cut him in a heartbeat.

So, Daniel Graham for Lelie make sense?

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network:

Also posted on the Broncos Message Board

and NFL.com under stories:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9482866

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Meanwhile in Denver, the Broncos could be getting closer to trading disgruntled wide receiver Ashley Lelie. A trade could be wrapped up within the next week that would be a three-team deal and land Denver a tight end.

A number of teams have shown renewed interest this week, according to one person close to the talks, and Lelie is desperate to get out of Denver, where he feels he cannot be the No. 1 receiver. He probably won't get a chance to be a No. 1 anywhere else either, even though he led the league in yards per catch last season. But he might have more of an opportunity in another city than he would in Denver.

Either way, the team that trades for Lelie is going to want to try to sign him to an extension, as his contract is scheduled to expire after this season.

My guess is Daniel Graham of New England. Not sure how the 3rd team plays in, but Daniel Graham is being WASTED behind Watson and with the drafting of 2 tight ends, it makes sense to me.

We've already discussed that the Pats seem to be a nice fit for Lelie and his bad attitude. If he doesn't get his act together there, they'll cut him in a heartbeat.

So, Daniel Graham for Lelie make sense?

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I would agree that Graham for Lelie in some way, shape, or form would be good for both teams. Personally, I thought Graham had enough talent to work in that offense, but the drafting of TEs lately pretty much has shown him the door (especially with his contract up soon). Lelie being disgruntled...... well, NE would be a perfect place for him to go to.

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

Can see it happening in fantasy football, but unless there is a nice pick in it for NE I would be very surprised.

LAUNCH

I'm not sure it makes great sense for the Patriots. Graham is acknowledged as the best blocking TE in the game (at least, I've heard it a number of time) and none of the other TEs on the Pats roster has the cache as being an outstanding blocker. With the Pats running a 2-TE offense fairly often, who would assume Graham's role?

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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Patten?

Can see it happening in fantasy football, but unless there is a nice pick in it for NE I would be very surprised.

LAUNCH

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A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

I'm not sure it makes great sense for the Patriots. Graham is acknowledged as the best blocking TE in the game (at least, I've heard it a number of time) and none of the other TEs on the Pats roster has the cache as being an outstanding blocker. With the Pats running a 2-TE offense fairly often, who would assume Graham's role?

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This is a good point. He is a GREAT blocking Tight End from all accounts. Maybe this is where the 3rd team comes about.

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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Patten?

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There has been speculation that David Patten will return to NE where he enjoyed so much success at a much lower salary cap figure than the sum of $ he left for. With the trade of Bethyl Johnson that makes even more sense.I'm not even sure Lelie would outperform Patten in NE so resigning him instead of giving up Graham seems like a no-brainer to me.

Can see it happening in fantasy football, but unless there is a nice pick in it for NE I would be very surprised.

LAUNCH

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A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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Also of note: Graham was a 1st round choice, pick 21 2002, of the Pats a few years back.

Graham is also in the last year of his contract making him a nice "swap" player.

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The only other option I could see is a move to San Fran for Eric Johnson.

A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?

You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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I actually am one of the bigger Lelie supporters on this board but his trade value is so low right now.He looks like a malcontent who is overestimating is own ability/worth and is only has one more year until he becomes a FA. I don't think DEN finds many takers and I'd guess he eventually realizes the best way to earn the $ he think he deserves is to #### and play for it.

It's too bad, I had him pegged for a sleeper earlier this year.

A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?

You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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I actually am one of the bigger Lelie supporters on this board but his trade value is so low right now.He looks like a malcontent who is overestimating is own ability/worth and is only has one more year until he becomes a FA. I don't think DEN finds many takers and I'd guess he eventually realizes the best way to earn the $ he think he deserves is to #### and play for it.

It's too bad, I had him pegged for a sleeper earlier this year.

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While I agree, the same is true for Graham.The drafting of Thomas and Mills is a not so subtle signal that Graham will not be returning next season, and he hasnt been a large part of the offense for a couple seasons now.

A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?

You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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I actually am one of the bigger Lelie supporters on this board but his trade value is so low right now.He looks like a malcontent who is overestimating is own ability/worth and is only has one more year until he becomes a FA. I don't think DEN finds many takers and I'd guess he eventually realizes the best way to earn the $ he think he deserves is to #### and play for it.

It's too bad, I had him pegged for a sleeper earlier this year.

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While I agree, the same is true for Graham.The drafting of Thomas and Mills is a not so subtle signal that Graham will not be returning next season, and he hasnt been a large part of the offense for a couple seasons now.

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I think you're very wrong here. He's not been a large part of the offense FROM A FF PERSPECTIVE, but he's been huge from a football perspective.

A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?

You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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I actually am one of the bigger Lelie supporters on this board but his trade value is so low right now.He looks like a malcontent who is overestimating is own ability/worth and is only has one more year until he becomes a FA. I don't think DEN finds many takers and I'd guess he eventually realizes the best way to earn the $ he think he deserves is to #### and play for it.

It's too bad, I had him pegged for a sleeper earlier this year.

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While I agree, the same is true for Graham.The drafting of Thomas and Mills is a not so subtle signal that Graham will not be returning next season, and he hasnt been a large part of the offense for a couple seasons now.

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I think you're very wrong here. He's not been a large part of the offense FROM A FF PERSPECTIVE, but he's been huge from a football perspective.

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Exactly.Well, that and the fact that Graham isn't refusing to join the rest of the team and hasn't publicly stated(over and over) that he never wants to play for them again.

A starting WR for a backup TE is in NE's favor?

You are vastly underestimating Lelie.

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I actually am one of the bigger Lelie supporters on this board but his trade value is so low right now.He looks like a malcontent who is overestimating is own ability/worth and is only has one more year until he becomes a FA. I don't think DEN finds many takers and I'd guess he eventually realizes the best way to earn the $ he think he deserves is to #### and play for it.

It's too bad, I had him pegged for a sleeper earlier this year.

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While I agree, the same is true for Graham.The drafting of Thomas and Mills is a not so subtle signal that Graham will not be returning next season, and he hasnt been a large part of the offense for a couple seasons now.

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I think you're very wrong here. He's not been a large part of the offense FROM A FF PERSPECTIVE, but he's been huge from a football perspective.

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Id sincerely disagree. Hes only played in 19 games in the last 2 years, and the rushing numbers and passing numbers dont see significantly different with or without him with a cursory glance.Im aware hes a great blocker, but I dont see the Pats going to great lengths to keep their #2 TE who they plan to replace in a year, when they can get a WR like Lelie for him.

Im aware hes a great blocker, but I dont see the Pats going to great lengths to keep their #2 TE who they plan to replace in a year, when they can get a WR like Lelie for him.

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But you do see NE going to great lengths to procure the services of Lelie when they already have Branch and traded up for Jackson?Lelie was whining about not being a #1 WR...... wonder what he'll think of being a #3.

Denver could use a TE. Stephen Alexander is best suited as a backup. I really like Tony Scheffler, but he needs a year or so to develop his blocking. The kid has a huge upside, though. Scheffler is going to be a big-time player, IMO.

Im aware hes a great blocker, but I dont see the Pats going to great lengths to keep their #2 TE who they plan to replace in a year, when they can get a WR like Lelie for him.

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But you do see NE going to great lengths to procure the services of Lelie when they already have Branch and traded up for Jackson?Lelie was whining about not being a #1 WR...... wonder what he'll think of being a #3.

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Jackson has a less than 0% chance of starting ahead of Lelie if they are on the same team.

Watson only caught about half the passes thrown his way last year and has missed many blocks. Graham, some believe, is one of the best blockers in the NFL at the TE position and is not a bad TE himself. Fauria brought stability and with him gone, I imagine Graham brings that now. It does seem the plans are all for Watson but he's not quite there yet, close but still needs a little more in his development.

I don't see NE needing a WR that bad either. Why'd they sign Reche and draft Jackson then? Brown's a fine #4 WR even in his "old age" so....I dunno, not liking this scenario. Fun thought though

Watson only caught about half the passes thrown his way last year and has missed many blocks. Graham, some believe, is one of the best blockers in the NFL at the TE position and is not a bad TE himself. Fauria brought stability and with him gone, I imagine Graham brings that now. It does seem the plans are all for Watson but he's not quite there yet, close but still needs a little more in his development.

I don't see NE needing a WR that bad either. Why'd they sign Reche and draft Jackson then? Brown's a fine #4 WR even in his "old age" so....I dunno, not liking this scenario. Fun thought though

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Why did they draft a 2nd round WR and sign the Chargers #3 guy?Is that a reason not to pursue one of the better deep threats in the league as your #2 guy?

Bethel Johnson trade adds a little fuel to the fire. He certainly would not have made the team if they going to get Lelie. Maybe he wouldn't anyway.

BTW: I recall the story on how Javon Walker kept missing his flight to NE. Lelie may have an uphill battle trying to get #1 money there.

Watson only caught about half the passes thrown his way last year and has missed many blocks. Graham, some believe, is one of the best blockers in the NFL at the TE position and is not a bad TE himself. Fauria brought stability and with him gone, I imagine Graham brings that now. It does seem the plans are all for Watson but he's not quite there yet, close but still needs a little more in his development.

I don't see NE needing a WR that bad either. Why'd they sign Reche and draft Jackson then? Brown's a fine #4 WR even in his "old age" so....I dunno, not liking this scenario. Fun thought though

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Why did they draft a 2nd round WR and sign the Chargers #3 guy?Is that a reason not to pursue one of the better deep threats in the league as your #2 guy?

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yep IMO, to each his own here.I'm pretty sure Lelie has never caught a TD in the redzone and that makes me feel he's limitted. He hasn't come across as the greatest team spirit guy so...I just don't see him being a BB kinda guy.

Watson only caught about half the passes thrown his way last year and has missed many blocks. Graham, some believe, is one of the best blockers in the NFL at the TE position and is not a bad TE himself. Fauria brought stability and with him gone, I imagine Graham brings that now. It does seem the plans are all for Watson but he's not quite there yet, close but still needs a little more in his development.

I don't see NE needing a WR that bad either. Why'd they sign Reche and draft Jackson then? Brown's a fine #4 WR even in his "old age" so....I dunno, not liking this scenario. Fun thought though

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Why did they draft a 2nd round WR and sign the Chargers #3 guy?Is that a reason not to pursue one of the better deep threats in the league as your #2 guy?

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yep IMO, to each his own here.I'm pretty sure Lelie has never caught a TD in the redzone and that makes me feel he's limitted. He hasn't come across as the greatest team spirit guy so...I just don't see him being a BB kinda guy.

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I get what you are saying, and I dont disagree necessarily.I think I just take more of an issue with those saying Graham is worth more than Lelie.

Each does something really well, and not much else, and neither has much value on the trade market, as neither will be with their respective teams after the '06 season.

Watson only caught about half the passes thrown his way last year and has missed many blocks. Graham, some believe, is one of the best blockers in the NFL at the TE position and is not a bad TE himself. Fauria brought stability and with him gone, I imagine Graham brings that now. It does seem the plans are all for Watson but he's not quite there yet, close but still needs a little more in his development.

I don't see NE needing a WR that bad either. Why'd they sign Reche and draft Jackson then? Brown's a fine #4 WR even in his "old age" so....I dunno, not liking this scenario. Fun thought though

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Why did they draft a 2nd round WR and sign the Chargers #3 guy?Is that a reason not to pursue one of the better deep threats in the league as your #2 guy?

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yep IMO, to each his own here.I'm pretty sure Lelie has never caught a TD in the redzone and that makes me feel he's limitted. He hasn't come across as the greatest team spirit guy so...I just don't see him being a BB kinda guy.

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You mean like David Terrell

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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Patten?

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There has been speculation that David Patten will return to NE where he enjoyed so much success at a much lower salary cap figure than the sum of $ he left for. With the trade of Bethyl Johnson that makes even more sense.I'm not even sure Lelie would outperform Patten in NE so resigning him instead of giving up Graham seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Lelie might not outperform Patten?You realize that Lelie has led the league in ypc for two straight seasons now, right? You realize that Lelie is one of the best deep threats in the entire NFL, right? He's an average blocker, pretty bad on short to intermediate routes... but he's a huge weapon deep, and does a lot to keep defenses honest, even if he doesn't catch the ball. Nobody cheats safeties up when Lelie is entering his track stance.

Lelie would make a great career #2 guy, if it weren't for the fact that he was convinced that he was really a #1.

Lelie might not outperform Patten?

You realize that Lelie has led the league in ypc for two straight seasons now, right? You realize that Lelie is one of the best deep threats in the entire NFL, right? He's an average blocker, pretty bad on short to intermediate routes... but he's a huge weapon deep, and does a lot to keep defenses honest, even if he doesn't catch the ball. Nobody cheats safeties up when Lelie is entering his track stance.

Lelie would make a great career #2 guy, if it weren't for the fact that he was convinced that he was really a #1.

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You realize I know you're a bronco fan and remember all their "just deep" WRs? Right now, he's Swervin Mervyn, he might develop but for now....

Interesting side note. Per KFFL

Patriots | Branch negotiations have not progressedSun, 28 May 2006 07:23:34 -0700Michael Felger, of the Boston Herald, reports there is nothing new concerning the negotiations between the New England Patriots and Patriots' WR Deion Branch regarding a contract extension. The team's mandatory camp this year comes June 12-14, and there is curiosity in Patriot circles over whether Branch will skip it or not. Branch, who has one year to run on his rookie deal, said last month that "my job is to finish my (current) contract." His agent, Jason Chayut, refused comment last week. There's no doubt Branch wants to be paid like a true No. 1 receiver. Branch will admit he can be neutralized by double-teams. At 5-foot-9, 190 pounds, Branch isn't one of those receivers who a quarterback can just throw the ball to in a pile. Players such as WRs Terrell Owens, Randy Moss and Chad Johnson have proven they can beat any coverage anywhere on the field. Those are true No. 1s. Most observers agree that Branch, who has never been to a Pro Bowl, is a "second-tier No. 1." According to one source, Branch has told friends he's looking for bonus/guaranteed money in the range of $12 million, while the Patriots are telling Chayut they aren't responsible for how other teams pay for their players.

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Patriots | Branch not seen at workout MondayTue, 6 Jun 2006 06:51:56 -0700Michael Felger, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots WR Deion Branch was not seen at the workout Monday, June 5. This week's camp is voluntary, but most players are in attendance.

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We've already discussed that the Pats seem to be a nice fit for Lelie and his bad attitude. If he doesn't get his act together there, they'll cut him in a heartbeat.

So, Daniel Graham for Lelie make sense?

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No - why trade a good TE who knows the system and has been productive with the attitude "Gee, if Lelie doesn't clean up his act, we'll just cut him"? That would be like giving Graham away for free.

I'd much rather have Graham than Leile. Graham helps the Pats offense much more. If you just look at fantasy stats and don't watch the Pats play than you would not understand what Graham brings to the table. Graham is a beast of a blocker. He's very nasty in the trenches. Therefore when the Pats go up against a big time rushing DE like Taylor or Freeney they have the flexibility of putting Graham on the player to help nullify him and gives Brady extra time. When he's in the game it's like having a sixth lineman. This also allows a TE like Watson or Thomas to be freed up in the passing game and since the Pats base formation is usually a two Te set that is important. The downside of Graham is his hands are not reliable (they're decent but he misses far too many easy ones) yet he is athletic enough that he must be accounted for in the passing game.

So far Leile has shown he's a decent WR who's game seems limited to the long ball. Maybe a change of scenery will help that. I'd have no problem with adding him to the Pats roster but in the end the Pats would lose more in Graham than they would gain in Leile unless we see a different Leile than the one that has played in Denver. I do agree that Graham's contract status is iffy. It remains to be seen whether the Pats reup him or not. Hopefully Thomas develops enough this year that if they lose Graham than the blow will be softened. As for Mills he appears to be destined to be more of a hybrid FB/HBack/TE type of player who the Pats will try to create mismatches with.

does this kinda of talk make us think that CJackson will not be an immediate contributor?

Branch, Caldwell, lelie, Jackson?

I'd much rather have Graham than Leile. Graham helps the Pats offense much more. If you just look at fantasy stats and don't watch the Pats play than you would not understand what Graham brings to the table.

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I would be very disappointed to see the Pats trade Graham for Lelie...to me, it would be a sign of a much more significant problem on the roster that we haven't yet heard about...

does this kinda of talk make us think that CJackson will not be an immediate contributor?

Branch, Caldwell, lelie, Jackson?

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It doesn't mean he will or won't be. BB/Pioli are always looking to add to their roster. If they think a player fits their mold and can help them they will add him regardless of what's currently on their roster. As last year's injury fiasco showed you can never, ever have enough depth.As far as the wideout unit goes it wouldn't hurt to add another WR. Right now it's a unit that has the potential to be really good or subpar. You really don't know what you have in Caldwell and Jax for 2006, Brown is aging and the #5 slot is wide open (possibly Bam Childress?). Therefore adding another Wr makes a ton of sense from both a depth perspective and a Caldwell/Jax worst case scenario situation.

Sooooo, let me get this straight...

The thought here is that Bill Belichick is going to trade the best blocking tight end in football who has been crucial when the Pats have suffered injuries to Matt Light for a malcontent WR who is forcing his way out of Denver because he's wants a new contract and wants to be the "NUMBER 1 GUY."

The Patriots don't have #1 guys. One week Branch will grab 10 for 110. The next he'll get 2 for 23. He's okay with this - it's gameplanning week to week.

Graham, meanwhile, has been staying home to block and thus killing his receiving numbers and, ultimately, probably the amount of $ he can command in his next contract. Graham doesn't mind doing this because that is the kind of player that the Patriots pursue.

I really don't mean to get all rah-rah about the Pats here, but the point is, Lelie is forcing his way out of Denver to be a #1 guy...NE should be the last place anyone thinks he can go.

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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Patten?

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Slight hijack

Frank what are those girls smuggling in those pants in your avatar??

We'd welcome Graham back to Colorado, especially if we can get him for that turd Lelie. Lelie might be a decent fit for NE, since he stretches the field so well (that's all he can do, literally), and Graham would be a great fit for DEN. Lelie probably isn't going to play another signbificant down in DEN anyhow.

I would personally find it hard to believe NE would want to help DEN out that way, though. I also put the disclaimer on the story because it's being put forth by Schefter, whom Joe might have great respect for but whom I have seen for years as being nothing but a mindless dupe for coaches. I would just as soon expect to see DEN look to FA to pick up a #2 TE & let Alexander - whom Shanahan likes -start.

Just thinking out loud here, but could the 3rd team be SD? Graham for Lelie, then Lelie for Edwards.

the new england talk is just that, talk. Denver could be doing this trade with Green Bay for all we know.

Teams that have need at WR: NE, GB, Jacksonville, SF, Philly. the list goes on and on.

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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Patten?

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There has been speculation that David Patten will return to NE where he enjoyed so much success at a much lower salary cap figure than the sum of $ he left for. With the trade of Bethyl Johnson that makes even more sense.I'm not even sure Lelie would outperform Patten in NE so resigning him instead of giving up Graham seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Johnson for Lelie would make more sense to me than Graham, however I cannot see DEN taking this risk (Johnson's health)Tom

Belichick has always said that the Patriots system for TEs is so complex, that it often takes a few seasons to learn. Couple that with the two-TE system that NE favors and it leads me to believe that Graham ain't going anywhere this year. The two guys that the Pats drafted to eventually fill the #2 TE slot are going to try to fill the Graham gap NEXT year when he leaves for free agency.

Lelie for Eric Johnson and a draft pick

I'm sorry, I just can't see Belichick trading Graham to a team that he might face in the playoffs.

Bledsoe to the Bills is one thing; he wasn't worried about Buffalo. But I don't think Bill wants to help Denver solve their problems.

It would be a great trade for DEN.

I'm not so sure about NE. Branch/Caldwell/Jackson/Patten? seems like a fine set of WR's when they have pass catching RB's and TE's. I'm not sure why NE goes out of their way to make a conference rival tougher without making themselves much better.

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This is why I think the third team comes in. NE probably doesn't want a WR. Denver wants a TE, and the third team wants to give up something other than a TE.Could be interesting.

Saints have a glut of TE's with the latest trade for Euhus. Hilton, Campbell, Meiers, and Conwell are already there. I could see Hilton being moved for a legit #3 WR....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why all the love for Lelie, who seems like a Todd Pinkston clone (with Freddie Mitchell's mouth grafted on)?

My Titans have a glut of TEs...and not a true number "#1 WR"

Saints have a glut of TE's with the latest trade for Euhus. Hilton, Campbell, Meiers, and Conwell are already there. I could see Hilton being moved for a legit #3 WR....

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Saints also have a "problem" WR in Stallworth that may be worked into any number of trade rumors...

Saints have a glut of TE's with the latest trade for Euhus. Hilton, Campbell, Meiers, and Conwell are already there. I could see Hilton being moved for a legit #3 WR....

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Saints also have a "problem" WR in Stallworth that may be worked into any number of trade rumors...

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Gil Brandt also hinted about this on Sirius NFL this morning, saying Euhus was probably part of a deal with Denver.

Lelie might not outperform Patten?

You realize that Lelie has led the league in ypc for two straight seasons now, right? You realize that Lelie is one of the best deep threats in the entire NFL, right? He's an average blocker, pretty bad on short to intermediate routes... but he's a huge weapon deep, and does a lot to keep defenses honest, even if he doesn't catch the ball. Nobody cheats safeties up when Lelie is entering his track stance.

Lelie would make a great career #2 guy, if it weren't for the fact that he was convinced that he was really a #1.

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You realize I know you're a bronco fan and remember all their "just deep" WRs? Right now, he's Swervin Mervyn, he might develop but for now....

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Lelie isn't an average "just deep" WR. He's one of the top 5 deep threats in the NFL. There's a pretty big difference.Personally, I think that, if Lelie just learned to accept the facts of life (such as that he doesn't have #1 talent), he could be one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL (at worst, top 5). His strength comes, not just from his numbers, but from the way coverages NOTICABLY roll and safeties noticably play a little bit back when Lelie is on the field compared to when he's not. Even if you don't throw a single ball to him all game, just having him on the field and running deep on every snap will do wonderful things to open up your running game, among other things. He's wildly inconsistant, but the way teams defend him most certainly is not.

I was really excited by the prospect of having Lelie running straight down the field out of the slot on every single snap this season. I'm upset that he decided to be a turd rather than realizing that his contract will be worse if he doesn't put up any numbers at all this season than if he managed another 700 yard year. He's useless in the red zone, but for an offense that prefers 2-TE sets in the red zone, that's not a big deal... and his value between the 20s is very significant.

We'd welcome Graham back to Colorado, especially if we can get him for that turd Lelie. Lelie might be a decent fit for NE, since he stretches the field so well (that's all he can do, literally), and Graham would be a great fit for DEN. Lelie probably isn't going to play another signbificant down in DEN anyhow.

I would personally find it hard to believe NE would want to help DEN out that way, though. I also put the disclaimer on the story because it's being put forth by Schefter, whom Joe might have great respect for but whom I have seen for years as being nothing but a mindless dupe for coaches. I would just as soon expect to see DEN look to FA to pick up a #2 TE & let Alexander - whom Shanahan likes -start.

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If Bellichick could improve his team by 2 points, and in the process improve his rival's team by 2 points, he would do it every single time. That's an extra 2 points for 15 weeks of the season, and a wash on the 16th week.This whole "don't trade with rivals" thing is very overrated. The only time it makes any sense is if (A) your rival is almost CRIPPLED by some glaring need and (B) nobody else in the league can help your rival nearly as much as you can.

I mean, consider- let's pretend that Graham is just a league-average TE who Bellichick didn't want in town. Bellichick could trade him and get Lelie... or Bellichick could decide against helping a rival, and watch as Denver traded Lelie with someone ELSE for a league-average TE. Denver wound up getting strengthened just as much whether Bellichick traded or not, but Bellichick got nothing out of the deal.

Anyway, that was just a hypothetical, I'm not saying that that's the case here. I'm just saying that this whole "don't strengthen your rivals" notion that a lot of people have in fantasy football, and think somehow applies to NFL football as well, is bunk.

Also, to offer another dissenting viewpoint... Pony Boy hates Schefter for some reason. Maybe Schefter ran over his cat or something, I don't know. The majority of Denver fans (including myself) view Schefter as the single best-connected man in the media when it comes to Denver sports. He knows things that other people do not know.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why all the love for Lelie, who seems like a Todd Pinkston clone (with Freddie Mitchell's mouth grafted on)?

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Really? When has Pinkston ever lead the league in ypr, let alone for two consecutive seasons? When has Pinkston ever had a 1,000 yard season (or an 800 yard season, for that matter)?Ashley Lelie is sort of like Todd Pinkston, except with better speed, better hands, better separation, and better blocking. His 17.9 career ypr is RIDICULOUS (especially when you consider that, unlike most players who inflate their numbers with a high ypr as a 3rd or 4th option early in their careers, his rookie ypr was actually his lowest to date).

Lelie might not outperform Patten?

You realize that Lelie has led the league in ypc for two straight seasons now, right? You realize that Lelie is one of the best deep threats in the entire NFL, right? He's an average blocker, pretty bad on short to intermediate routes... but he's a huge weapon deep, and does a lot to keep defenses honest, even if he doesn't catch the ball. Nobody cheats safeties up when Lelie is entering his track stance.

Lelie would make a great career #2 guy, if it weren't for the fact that he was convinced that he was really a #1.

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You realize I know you're a bronco fan and remember all their "just deep" WRs? Right now, he's Swervin Mervyn, he might develop but for now....

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Lelie isn't an average "just deep" WR. He's one of the top 5 deep threats in the NFL. There's a pretty big difference.

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Swervin' Mervyn averaged 26 yards per catch one year and roughly 19 another and.....I think you're giving off some homerism here man. No one has disagreed with the "if he improved his game/developped" angle but we're talking about now. If he's not "just deep" than give me some stats that proves it. I already pointed out he either has none or very very few red zone TDs in his career. Gimme some stats for your side of the argument then