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TE draft strategy: Taking both Gates & Gonzo (1 Viewer)

Would you take Gates & Gonzo in the 3rd & 5th?

  • I see the genius in doing this.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I fail to see the genius in doing this.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
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John Mamula

John Mamula

Footballguy
Moderator
1 PPR, otherwise standard scoring.

Starting requirements: 1 QB / 2 RB / 3 WR / 1 TE / 1 flex

This happened in a draft I recently encountered. I don't get it.

:confused:

PS: in rounds 1, 2, and 4 he took 2 RBs and 1 QB.

So through 5 rounds he has no WR in a start 3 WR league with PPR.

Please enlighten me to this new draft strategy so I may properly employ it in the coming months.

:thumbup:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
1 PPR, otherwise standard scoring.

Starting requirements: 1 QB / 2 RB / 3 WR / 1 TE / 1 flex

This happened in a draft I recently encountered. I don't get it.

:confused:

PS: in rounds 1, 2, and 4 he took 2 RBs and 1 QB.

So through 6 rounds he has no WR in a start 3 WR league with PPR.

Please enlighten me to this new draft strategy so I may properly employ it in the coming months.

:thumbup:
Click to expand...
I'd be shocked if the guy doesn't get last. The TE squeeze theory died two years ago with the QB squeeze theory.Which WR's did he get? Can he fill out a roster?

Will hang up and listen...

 
In the leagues I'm a part of, the "Stud RB" theory is quickly being pushed out by the "Stud WR" theory. This guy's in trouble, IMO.

 
*IF* it's an active trading league, and *IF* Gonzalez returns to his form from 2004 and earlier, and *IF* the league understands and believes in the concepts of VBD, and *IF* the league understands the true value of a stud TE in a VBD system, then I see this working out well for this owner. Stud TEs are often worthy of first-round selections based on VBD, so he could theoretically be able to deal one of his studs for almost any WR in the league once the season starts.

On the other hand, that's a heckuva lot of "IFs".

On the OTHER other hand, if I'm reading this correctly, he got Gonzo for a 5th rounder, which isn't terrible (at least he didn't reach for him in the 4th).

 
BTW, after grabbing his first WR in the 6th round he decided that was enough and grabbed the Bears defense in the 7th.

:thumbup:

I have already subscribed to his newsletter.

 
Maybe in a league where TEs get 2 ppr?

What positions can start at the flex spot?

Unless flex = TE or Kicker, I can't seen doing this.

 
*IF* it's an active trading league, and *IF* Gonzalez returns to his form from 2004 and earlier, and *IF* the league understands and believes in the concepts of VBD, and *IF* the league understands the true value of a stud TE in a VBD system, then I see this working out well for this owner. Stud TEs are often worthy of first-round selections based on VBD, so he could theoretically be able to deal one of his studs for almost any WR in the league once the season starts.

On the other hand, that's a heckuva lot of "IFs".

On the OTHER other hand, if I'm reading this correctly, he got Gonzo for a 5th rounder, which isn't terrible (at least he didn't reach for him in the 4th).
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Good points.No trades are allowed in this league.

Funny that you mention VBD...I would bet money that he used the draft dominator. He obviously used it incorrectly, but I am thinking he just took the #1 value guy every time??

Maybe someone can input WCOFF scoring into it and see what happens.

 
I'd be shocked if the guy doesn't get last.
Click to expand...
He will benefit from beginner's luck and make the playoffs. I remember in 1997 a new guy joined one of my leagues and in the first round drafted . . . the Bears' backup running back, Raymont Harris. (Rashaan Salaam was supposed to be the starter.)In the first week, we all got together to watch the games, and Raymont Harris gained over 150 yards and two touchdowns.

It was absolutely my favorite moment in all of fantasy football. He took so much crap for picking Harris in the first round, and Harris carried his fantasy team to victory in week one.

(Salaam got injured in week three, and Harris went on to rush for over 1,000 yards.)

The same thing will happen for this guy in your league.

 
I think I know what league this happened in. Did you guys also notice that someone else picked Shockey and Witten in rounds 5 and 6?

The tight ends certainly went a lot faster after these double-TE picks because they were running out faster.

I won't ridicule the strategy until I see how it plays out, but I must admit I have my doubts.

 
I think I know what league this happened in. Did you guys also notice that someone else picked Shockey and Witten in rounds 5 and 6?

The tight ends certainly went a lot faster after these double-TE picks because they were running out faster.

I won't ridicule the strategy until I see how it plays out, but I must admit I have my doubts.
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:eek: You're right that did happen. I didn't notice that.

I am not ridiculing at all. I am honestly completely so confused that now 2 teams in the same league took 2 stud TEs each.

I assume they want to use one as a flex and then have a stud for bye week coverage.

I have never seen someone do this before, especially in a league that is so heavy with picking WRs historically.

I am always interested in a unique strategy, and doing this may be a good idea, however I think you can't grab a QB and a DT so early if you do this...you need to grab more WRs.

Despite a TE in the flex he is going to need to start 3 WRs every week. That is going to be difficult, IMO.

 
1 PPR, otherwise standard scoring.

Starting requirements: 1 QB / 2 RB / 3 WR / 1 TE / 1 flex

This happened in a draft I recently encountered. I don't get it.

:confused:

PS: in rounds 1, 2, and 4 he took 2 RBs and 1 QB.

So through 5 rounds he has no WR in a start 3 WR league with PPR.

Please enlighten me to this new draft strategy so I may properly employ it in the coming months.

:thumbup:
Click to expand...
I do the TE back to back all the time.(any position really)It's like a chess move leaving your king exposed and your opponent thinks WTF? and does something/anything "wrong" or away from his plan.

If a few people think "oh sh I better get a TE before they're all gone"(like Shockey and Witten in post above) well then the WRs and RBs really aren't any different had you NOT done this, but instead you have trade bait now.

You don't need the two of them but Gates could have fetched an awesome return last year(for example) and suppose Priest got hurt for ya or D Jax; with this trade you inadvertently coverred your injury with a stud. 90% of folks use some backup and hope, this is as much of a lock as there is since you ask for this player in trade.

 
I'm trying to figure it out too.

I'm glad I selected Heap at the beginning of the fifth so I could avoid this chaos.

By the way, the "trade bait" idea doesn't apply here. There's no trading in this league.

 
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I did this exact thing last year in one of my leagues, mostly because I wanted to see how it panned out. My verdict is that it's a bad move. I did make the playoffs, but I was very lucky to do so and it had more to do with watching free agency like a hawk and getting some lucky breaks on weekly matchups rather than owning the best TE tandem.

Only 1 good TE is the best move. Getting that 2nd TE only gives you an advantage over the one other person who would have drafted him. Everyone else gets about the same quality TE they would have anyway.

 
Maybe in a league where TEs get 2 ppr?

What positions can start at the flex spot?

Unless flex = TE or Kicker, I can't seen doing this.
Click to expand...
1 PPR.RB/WR/TE in flex spots.
Click to expand...
Why on earth would you ever want to start a TE at the flex spot then?
Click to expand...
This is what I am trying to figure out.
Click to expand...
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
 
I do the TE back to back all the time.(any position really)

It's like a chess move leaving your king exposed and your opponent thinks WTF? and does something/anything "wrong" or away from his plan.

If a few people think "oh sh I better get a TE before they're all gone"(like Shockey and Witten in post above) well then the WRs and RBs really aren't any different had you NOT done this, but instead you have trade bait now.

You don't need the two of them but Gates could have fetched an awesome return last year(for example) and suppose Priest got hurt for ya or D Jax; with this trade you inadvertently coverred your injury with a stud. 90% of folks use some backup and hope, this is as much of a lock as there is since you ask for this player in trade.
Click to expand...
This is the same erroneous thinking that the staff employed during the QB squeeze. While sure it may work on teams that also panic, it allows the teams that don't panic the ability to get insane value at other positions while you are goofing around with two TEs.I think you also missed the part where there was no trades in this league (WCOFF format).

 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be, but it is in some people's cases.
 
I do the TE back to back all the time.(any position really)

It's like a chess move leaving your king exposed and your opponent thinks WTF? and does something/anything "wrong" or away from his plan.

If a few people think "oh sh I better get a TE before they're all gone"(like Shockey and Witten in post above) well then the WRs and RBs really aren't any different had you NOT done this, but instead you have trade bait now.

You don't need the two of them but Gates could have fetched an awesome return last year(for example) and suppose Priest got hurt for ya or D Jax; with this trade you inadvertently coverred your injury with a stud. 90% of folks use some backup and hope, this is as much of a lock as there is since you ask for this player in trade.
Click to expand...
This is the same erroneous thinking that the staff employed during the QB squeeze. While sure it may work on teams that also panic, it allows the teams that don't panic the ability to get insane value at other positions while you are goofing around with two TEs.I think you also missed the part where there was no trades in this league (WCOFF format).
Click to expand...
absolutely missed thatI wouldn't have done it then

 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be, but it is in some people's cases.
Click to expand...
huh?12*4 is 48

Your 3rd WR is your 4th best player? I'm not following

 
I do the TE back to back all the time.(any position really)

It's like a chess move leaving your king exposed and your opponent thinks WTF? and does something/anything "wrong" or away from his plan.

If a few people think "oh sh I better get a TE before they're all gone"(like Shockey and Witten in post above) well then the WRs and RBs really aren't any different had you NOT done this, but instead you have trade bait now.

You don't need the two of them but Gates could have fetched an awesome return last year(for example) and suppose Priest got hurt for ya or D Jax; with this trade you inadvertently coverred your injury with a stud. 90% of folks use some backup and hope, this is as much of a lock as there is since you ask for this player in trade.
Click to expand...
This is the same erroneous thinking that the staff employed during the QB squeeze. While sure it may work on teams that also panic, it allows the teams that don't panic the ability to get insane value at other positions while you are goofing around with two TEs.I think you also missed the part where there was no trades in this league (WCOFF format).
Click to expand...
absolutely missed thatI wouldn't have done it then
Click to expand...
That's ok...it was a few posts down. :thumbup:

 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be, but it is in some people's cases.
Click to expand...
huh?12*4 is 48

Your 3rd WR is your 4th best player? I'm not following
Click to expand...
You are assuming that everyone picks the same positions at the same time.If, in the first 5 picks I picked 3 WRs (for example) my WR3 would be (should be) better than Gonzo.

 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be, but it is in some people's cases.
Click to expand...
huh?12*4 is 48

Your 3rd WR is your 4th best player? I'm not following
Click to expand...
You are assuming that everyone picks the same positions at the same time.If, in the first 5 picks I picked 3 WRs (for example) my WR3 would be (should be) better than Gonzo.
Click to expand...
scratch that...one secI'm not following how your 3rd WR would be better than the 44th ranked player. Doesn't really matter I think we each made our point. I just meant to say at a point, Tony G is a good grab as your flex player. Not many TEs would be but...

 
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Unless this guy hits the jackpot with his late rd. WR's or free agency I really don't see how this is going to be a good idea. Trades aren't allowed...Gonzo might be better than a flex WR or RB, but it really depends on who you're comparing. Maybe he's figuring Gates & Gonzo will be the top pass catchers among TE's in the league this year, which could very well happen and just wants to screw the rest of his league like that.

Would it really matter though? Let's just say that Gates and Gonzo finish 1 & 2...is he taking THAT much away from the guys who have the 3rd, 4th, 5th ranked TE's? Probably not. Figuring one of them gets injured? Well, why would you draft him then? Gotta be thinking of Gonzo in the flex.

Also, he took another RB after drafting Gonzo. Wtf? Are you going to use Gonzo in the flex position or not, dude? Could he be drafting his bye-week RB already? Or did he just forget about WR's?

I could see him STRICTLY using VBD for drafting Gonzalez, but that'd only be the case if there was absolute #### available at WR and/or RB.

No sir, I don't like it :yucky:

 
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In a league of mostly of all board guys, I recently went overboard on TEs as well. It's a 12-team best ball format starting 1 QB / 2 RB / 2 WR / 1 TE / 2 FLEX (RB or WR or TE) / 1 PK / 1 DEF. 1 PPR for RB and WR with 2 PPR for TE.

I ended up going:

1.02 Tomlinson, Ladainian

2.11 Davis, Domanick

3.02 Taylor, Chester

4.11 Gonzalez, Tony

5.02 Heap, Todd

6.11 Witten, Jason

Basically, I can start 5 of those 6 each week. To give people an idea, in this format there were 7 TE ranked in the Top 38 in overall scoring last year.

We drafted months ago, so the Davis and Taylor picks might seem a little suspect but there is still time for them to work out.

As for WR (we only have to start two remember), I ended up with

Battle, Arnaz SFO

Clayton, Michael TBB

Jenkins, Michael ATL

Kennison, Eddie KCC

Mason, Derrick BAL

Rogers, Charles DET

There are also still playable WR on the waiver wire, so I can add more WR if things don't work out.

 
In a league of mostly of all board guys, I recently went overboard on TEs as well.  It's a 12-team best ball format starting 1 QB / 2 RB / 2 WR / 1 TE / 2 FLEX (RB or WR or TE) / 1 PK / 1 DEF. 1 PPR for RB and WR with 2 PPR for TE.

I ended up going:

1.02 Tomlinson, Ladainian

2.11 Davis, Domanick

3.02 Taylor, Chester

4.11 Gonzalez, Tony

5.02 Heap, Todd

6.11 Witten, Jason

Basically, I can start 5 of those 6 each week.  To give people an idea, in this format there were 7 TE ranked in the Top 38 in overall scoring last year.

We drafted months ago, so the Davis and Taylor picks might seem a little suspect but there is still time for them to work out.

As for WR (we only have to start two remember), I ended up with

Battle, Arnaz SFO

Clayton, Michael TBB

Jenkins, Michael ATL

Kennison, Eddie KCC

Mason, Derrick BAL

Rogers, Charles DET

There are also still playable WR on the waiver wire, so I can add more WR if things don't work out.
Click to expand...
Where'd you draft Mason? That could be a huge steal with McNair there now. Your league gives 2 PPR for TE's, a HUGE factor in your strategy. Kinda makes sense. Your WR's are pretty weak though. Pass catching RB's are pretty strong. I can see this working.
 
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In a league of mostly of all board guys, I recently went overboard on TEs as well. It's a 12-team best ball format starting 1 QB / 2 RB / 2 WR / 1 TE / 2 FLEX (RB or WR or TE) / 1 PK / 1 DEF. 1 PPR for RB and WR with 2 PPR for TE.

I ended up going:

1.02 Tomlinson, Ladainian

2.11 Davis, Domanick

3.02 Taylor, Chester

4.11 Gonzalez, Tony

5.02 Heap, Todd

6.11 Witten, Jason

Basically, I can start 5 of those 6 each week. To give people an idea, in this format there were 7 TE ranked in the Top 38 in overall scoring last year.

We drafted months ago, so the Davis and Taylor picks might seem a little suspect but there is still time for them to work out.

As for WR (we only have to start two remember), I ended up with

Battle, Arnaz SFO

Clayton, Michael TBB

Jenkins, Michael ATL

Kennison, Eddie KCC

Mason, Derrick BAL

Rogers, Charles DET

There are also still playable WR on the waiver wire, so I can add more WR if things don't work out.
Click to expand...
OK, but 1 PPR and starting 3 WR and 1 flex completely changes everything than in the example you just gave, IMO.
 
OK, but 1 PPR and starting 3 WR and 1 flex completely changes everything than in the example you just gave, IMO.
Click to expand...
Just trying to show an example of a league where TEs can be more valuable and a new strategy implemented to exploit the scoring system.
 
Maybe in a league where TEs get 2 ppr?

What positions can start at the flex spot?

Unless flex = TE or Kicker, I can't seen doing this.
Click to expand...
1 PPR.RB/WR/TE in flex spots.
Click to expand...
Why on earth would you ever want to start a TE at the flex spot then?
Click to expand...
This is what I am trying to figure out.
Click to expand...
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
Okay, but why draft him ahead of your 1st WR?
 
Where'd you draft Mason? That could be a huge steal with McNair there now. Your league gives 2 PPR for TE's, a HUGE factor in your strategy. Kinda makes sense. Your WR's are pretty weak though. Pass catching RB's are pretty strong. I can see this working.
Click to expand...
Sure, WR are a bit weak but that was the tradeoff. If you get a decent advantage at 5 other starting spots and get 1 good and 1 so so performance from yur WR you are still way ahead of the game.IMO, Mason, Kennison, and Clayton will be ok and the other guys might have an occasional good week. Like I said, there are still guys on waivers I could snatch up just to have more options.As for Mason, I got him with my 8.11 pick (pre McNair trade).
 
Maybe in a league where TEs get 2 ppr?

What positions can start at the flex spot?

Unless flex = TE or Kicker, I can't seen doing this.
Click to expand...
1 PPR.RB/WR/TE in flex spots.
Click to expand...
Why on earth would you ever want to start a TE at the flex spot then?
Click to expand...
This is what I am trying to figure out.
Click to expand...
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
Okay, but why draft him ahead of your 1st WR?
Click to expand...
I don't know who was still available, but I would guess that Gonzalez would be the highest remaining scorer to fill the flex spot. At that point, WR were probably all pretty similar in terms of projected performance. Waiting one more round for a WR might cost 10 points over the course of a season.
 
Over the last 2 years Gates and Gonzo have put up numbers that would rival alot of #2 recievers. Gonzo had a "bad" year last year, with 78 rec and 900 yds. The only thing that was down was his touchdowns. He fought through a couple of nagging injuries also. So, as far as being picked above the other WRs, unless there was a stud that fell, I think it was a good pick. That being as it may, he should have used one of them on a RB to fill the Flex spot.

 
Over the last 2 years Gates and Gonzo have put up numbers that would rival alot of #2 recievers. Gonzo had a "bad" year last year, with 78 rec and 900 yds. The only thing that was down was his touchdowns. He fought through a couple of nagging injuries also. So, as far as being picked above the other WRs, unless there was a stud that fell, I think it was a good pick. That being as it may, he should have used one of them on a RB to fill the Flex spot.
Click to expand...
What about the 3 starting WR slots you need to fill?
 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
In a 1 ppr league, he was the 6th best TE last year.As a flex option of RB/WR/TE in that league, he was the 57th best option.

Why does 44th come from?

ETA: I didn't run it, but no way did he have the 44th highest VBD in a league like this.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
In a 1 ppr league, he was the 6th best TE last year.As a flex option of RB/WR/TE in that league, he was the 57th best option.

Why does 44th come from?

ETA: I didn't run it, but no way did he have the 44th highest VBD in a league like this.
Click to expand...
VBD doesn't matter if you're playing a player in the flex, anyway.Consider an imaginary world where the following is true:

All TEs score 25 points, except for "STUDTE1" and "STUDTE2" who score 100 each.

All WRs score 200 points.

Who would be a better flex option, STUDTE2, or an average WR? STUDTE2 has a *drastically* better VBD than all the WRs (whose VBD is essentially 0), but the WRs all score more points and are a better flex option.

 
some leagues allow 2 points per TE rec and it's real common to see them as the flex. This one doesn't but Tony G was the 44th ranked player in FF last year. That's probably better than your 3rd WR
Click to expand...
In a 1 ppr league, he was the 6th best TE last year.As a flex option of RB/WR/TE in that league, he was the 57th best option.

Why does 44th come from?

ETA: I didn't run it, but no way did he have the 44th highest VBD in a league like this.
Click to expand...
VBD doesn't matter if you're playing a player in the flex, anyway.Consider an imaginary world where the following is true:

All TEs score 25 points, except for "STUDTE1" and "STUDTE2" who score 100 each.

All WRs score 200 points.

Who would be a better flex option, STUDTE2, or an average WR? STUDTE2 has a *drastically* better VBD than all the WRs (whose VBD is essentially 0), but the WRs all score more points and are a better flex option.
Click to expand...
I think this is a it flaVVed in terms of analysis. IMO, the baseline to consider for VBD would be to figure out the line in the sand for what the top scorers would be and then redraw the cutoff from there.For example, in my league as described above (with 2 flex spots), I forget the exact numbers but IIRC there were like 34 RB, 44 WR, and 18 TE that would have composed the "best scoring" standard. THe VBD baseline should then be rescored to those levels and values recalculated. The problem with straight positional VBD is that they are comparing players ONLY AT THE SAME POSITION. Flex positions dramatically alter those results.

In this new matrix of value scoring for an odd breakdown of positions, players can be better evaluated against players at OTHER positions. So then the #7 TE could not only be looked at as leaps and bounds vs other TE, he can also be looked at vs midranged RB and WR as well.

As for your example, if I can get 200 points out of a WR but only 100 from a TE in my flex spot, I would argue that the WR is a much better option--TOTAL SCORING for your team is more important than what the VBD numbers say.

I have the same problem with the Draft Dominator involving leagues with multi-flex spots. You can reset the parameters, but if you don't you won't end up with the highest scoring team.

 
Consider an imaginary world where the following is true:

All TEs score 25 points, except for "STUDTE1" and "STUDTE2" who score 100 each.

All WRs score 200 points.

Who would be a better flex option, STUDTE2, or an average WR? STUDTE2 has a *drastically* better VBD than all the WRs (whose VBD is essentially 0), but the WRs all score more points and are a better flex option.
Click to expand...
He would have a better VBD value only as a TE, not as a flex player. As a flex player, he'd have a negative VBD value.
 
I think I know what league this happened in. Did you guys also notice that someone else picked Shockey and Witten in rounds 5 and 6?

The tight ends certainly went a lot faster after these double-TE picks because they were running out faster.

I won't ridicule the strategy until I see how it plays out, but I must admit I have my doubts.
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:eek: You're right that did happen. I didn't notice that.

I am not ridiculing at all. I am honestly completely so confused that now 2 teams in the same league took 2 stud TEs each.

I assume they want to use one as a flex and then have a stud for bye week coverage.

I have never seen someone do this before, especially in a league that is so heavy with picking WRs historically.

I am always interested in a unique strategy, and doing this may be a good idea, however I think you can't grab a QB and a DT so early if you do this...you need to grab more WRs.

Despite a TE in the flex he is going to need to start 3 WRs every week. That is going to be difficult, IMO.
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Bagger - go back and look at the WCOFF HOF league from 2004. I think Jon and Ian Millman used that strategy and came in either first or second.It's been done before, but would be more logical if the drafter went

RB

WR

TE

RB

TE

or

RB

RB

TE

WR

TE

to combine the 2StudTE with taking a QB too early is likely headed for a bad result

 
Bagger - go back and look at the WCOFF HOF league from 2004. I think Jon and Ian Millman used that strategy and came in either first or second.

It's been done before, but would be more logical if the drafter went

RB

WR

TE

RB

TE

or

RB

RB

TE

WR

TE

to combine the 2StudTE with taking a QB too early is likely headed for a bad result
Click to expand...
Interesting.I agree that if you are going to do this, you can't grab a QB in round 2 and you need a stud WR. Then after you do it you need to hit up the WRs again immediately to get depth.

Good thoughts.

:thumbup:

 
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