What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bell vs. Dayne (1 Viewer)

Superdbs

Superdbs

Footballguy
FWIW, I clipped this from a chat transcript Bronco's beat writer Jeff Legwold did on the Rocky Mountain News website yesterday. No mention whatsoever in the chat about Cobb, which surprised me a little.

OK, Bell and Dayne camps, lock and load :boxing:

slade: between Bell and Dayne, who do you think will be the most

effective this season?

Jeff_Legwold: I think the plan right now is they split time so they

both can be effective. Dayne will be the early-down runner for the

most part and he fits the Broncos system. I think there is potential

for him to be far better in the Denver offense than he has been

previously in his pro career. The numbers show that Bell's

production starts to dip after Game 8 last season and after the 12th

carry -- on average -- in games. That's the Broncos' belief as well.

They will keep him in that 10-12 carry a game range because they

believe that's the best way to main Bell's impact. Tatum disagrees

with that, but it is something he will have to overcome to get more

carries in the offense. So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.

 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.

 
07/11/06 10:31 PMTHE NEWSMike Shanahan has told Tatum Bell that he needs to bulk up in preparation for the upcoming season. Shanahan loves Bell's 5.3 yard average, but is not happy with Tatum's inability to convert in short yardage situations. ESPN's John Clayton is reporting that Bell has risen to the challenge and is lifting weights diligently in an effort to cement himself as the Bronco's number one back.Our ViewRon Dayne took more reps with the first team during their recent minicamp, but it appears like this could be a classic motivational move by Master Shanahan. Bell certainly has the explosiveness that traditionally marks successful backs in Denver, and if he can truly earn the solo spot he could rise up the rankings quite quickly. At this point it still appears that Dayne will be involved, but seeing Bell make added efforts is a very encouraging sign for fantasy owners.
Click to expand...
:shrug:
 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
Click to expand...
Curious as to some other "classic motivational moves" by Shanahan similar to running Dayne with the first team.Could it be that Dayne is the starter? Nah, that's too simple and too discouraging for Bell owners.

 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
Click to expand...
Curious as to some other "classic motivational moves" by Shanahan similar to running Dayne with the first team.Could it be that Dayne is the starter? Nah, that's too simple and too discouraging for Bell owners.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: This has been debated and with maybe one or two examples it has shown that whoever Shanny says is starting is in reality starting. Hard concept to follow, I know.
 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
Click to expand...
I was just thinking that. Total mind game. It's saying to Bell, we need you to work HARD to get over that 12 carry downturn in production....
 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
Click to expand...
Curious as to some other "classic motivational moves" by Shanahan similar to running Dayne with the first team.Could it be that Dayne is the starter? Nah, that's too simple and too discouraging for Bell owners.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: This has been debated and with maybe one or two examples it has shown that whoever Shanny says is starting is in reality starting. Hard concept to follow, I know.
Click to expand...
Why is it that if Bell isn't the starter, then a situation like this is called a "motivational ploy" rather than Dayne starts and Bell has a lesser role? If the roles were reversed, would Dayne supporters call this a "motivational ploy"? I'm just asking. :confused: I don't care either way; whomever provides me with the greatest value will be drafted by me. :thumbup:

 
Last year i kept thinking it was a motivational ploy by Shanahan when he kept having Anderson run with the 1st team. Turned out it wasn't.

Maybe this year he is playing some kind of mind games, but he wasn't last year.

This has RBBC written all over it.

 
Why is it that if Bell isn't the starter, then a situation like this is called a "motivational ploy" rather than Dayne starts and Bell has a lesser role? If the roles were reversed, would Dayne supporters call this a "motivational ploy"? I'm just asking. :confused:
Click to expand...
This is a worthwhile question, Tom - my take on why this is a "motivational ploy" is that I have seen Dayne looking like a solid starting RB all the way into preseason - several years with the Giants, as a matter of fact - and the truth is that Dayne does not handle the full time starter role well (or has not in the past).That was why I made the comment that if your faith in Dayne was not shaken earlier in his career, you see this as Dayne starting. If (like me) you have seen these signs before with Dayne, you see it as a motivational tool for Bell.
 
I still think Cobbs will play a role in how this all shakes out. Besides Shanahan saying Cobbs would compete for a starting job a few days ago, he had also said after the draft that he would've taken Maroney at #15 if they had not been able to pull off the trade to get Cutler. Doesn't sound like the Broncos are all that crazy about any of the backs they have right now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is simply Shanahan's M.O. his backs will compete early in the season (probably Dayne & Bell, I don't believe the Cobbs hype) and if/when one takes charge the Broncos will ride him the rest of the way.

 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.
Click to expand...
If by "playing the hot hand", you mean "sticking with their #1 RB even when he's not the hot hand", then I wholeheartedly agree.Seriously, Bell went through a 4-week stretch where he was averaging like 10 yards per carry... and Anderson was STILL the primary ballcarrier. Please explain to me how that can in any way be construed as "playing the hot hand".

I was just thinking that. Total mind game. It's saying to Bell, we need you to work HARD to get over that 12 carry downturn in production....
Click to expand...
While I don't disagree with this, so what? That's what being a backup means- the coach thinks you have to improve in order to be the starter. Does that mean that every depth chart is simply a motivational ploy to try to motivate every backup on the entire team? Do coaches designate backups based on who they think needs the most motivating? Or is it possible that the coach puts the guy he thinks is best for the job at #1, and the other guys behind him?I agree 100% with your statement, but not your conclusions. Putting Bell as the backup is telling Bell that he needs to get better if he wants to be a starter. Putting Michael Turner #2 to Tomlinson says that HE needs to get better if he wants to be a starter, too. So why aren't we talking about how Tomlinson being #1 on the depth chart is a motivational ploy for Turner? I mean, obviously Schottenheimer wants Turner to be his starter, or else why else would he have put him #2 on the depth chart?!

This is simply Shanahan's M.O. his backs will compete early in the season (probably Dayne & Bell, I don't believe the Cobbs hype) and if/when one takes charge the Broncos will ride him the rest of the way.
Click to expand...
Again, look back at last season. There was no competition. There was no taking charge. Bell averaged something like 7 yards per carry over the first half of the season, and 10 yards per carry over a 4 week span. He had "taken charge", but the Broncos rode Anderson.In Denver, the backs compete during the training camps and preseason. Once you win that competition, though, the job is yours until you give it away.

 
I've got a hunch this year that Tatum Bell is going to do something quite special and earn enough carries to put up really nice fantasy numbers. I think the Broncos are doing everything they can to light a fire under his butt and with the way Bell is talking, I believe he realizes it may be now or never for him in 2006.

I don't think he needs 20 carries per game to be a strong fantasy back. He is explosive and will average a strong YPC. If he gets 200 carries on the year, he will put up at least 1,000+ rushing yards and 8 touchdowns.

Dayne may ultimately get more carries but I'll take Bell over him this season just because he can do more with less and his upside is quite a bit greater than is Dayne's.

Bell is one of the value picks of 2006! I'm calling it now.

 
Let me get this straight:

A writer... interviews another writer... who gives an opinion of the rolls of the 3 RBs of the local team 2 months before the season starts...

AND YOU FRIGGIN GUYS ARE RESPONDING TO THAT?!?!??!?!?!?!!

Cheez and rice.

:confused: :no:

 
Let me get this straight:

A writer... interviews another writer... who gives an opinion of the rolls of the 3 RBs of the local team 2 months before the season starts...

AND YOU FRIGGIN GUYS ARE RESPONDING TO THAT?!?!??!?!?!?!!

Cheez and rice.

:confused: :no:
Click to expand...
Crazy, huh? But, that's what we do in the Pool in July.SSOG - responding to some of what you said. You make some valid and compelling points. I want to clarify that *my* thought on why I believe Dayne is being used as motivation for Bell stems solely from my lack of faith in Dayne based on his tenure in NY.

Do I think Shannie is consciously doing this? maybe - esp. considering Bell's recent comments about being the man, yet earning only one start in two seasons. Do I agree that Shannie is running Dayne with the first team because, right now, he feels that Dayne is their best back? Absolutely.

There is some great support for thinking Bell can win the starting role from Dayne - like you mentioned, he had a high YPC average. He also scored 8 TDs on 173 carries, earned 41 first downs, and is the "home run" threat for the team.

As a last point, I think you are dead on correct with this statement:

In Denver, the backs compete during the training camps and preseason. Once you win that competition, though, the job is yours until you give it away.
Click to expand...
I don't think anything more needs to be said than that - you are 100% correct. Heck, Griffin was returned to the starting role even though he was playing poorly and fumbling, and he pretty much only lost the job after he was injured.
 
In other words, Dayne is the starter with Bell as the 3DB.

Guy is a psychic.
Click to expand...
Did I miss that part of the article?
Click to expand...
yeah - I missed that as well.looks like they will be playing "hot hand" like they did last year.

I thought this was telling:

So heading into camp it's safe to say they

will likely mix and match like last season unless a back's

performance forces them to do otherwise. Dayne would have a better

opportunity to do that because he will likely get more carries.
Click to expand...
If your faith in Dayne as a 200+ carry back was not shattered while he was a Giant, you like that statement. If it WAS shattered - and you genuinely believe (like I do) that Dayne with more carries = Dayne playing himself out of a job, I take the current Dayne with the first team arrangement as classic Shannie motiviation (ala - the post above mine)
Click to expand...
Curious as to some other "classic motivational moves" by Shanahan similar to running Dayne with the first team.Could it be that Dayne is the starter? Nah, that's too simple and too discouraging for Bell owners.
Click to expand...
Not a Bell owner or a Dayne owner ... But I am a Giants fan and I've seen Dayne fool and disappoint me for years.

Dayne is a very very soft runner for his size or even for someone 30 - 40 lbs lighter.

He goes down with the first hit and unless he has a huge hole he will dance and stutter step looking to make something happen.

His 5.1 yd avg last year is very deceiving ... In the 8 games that he carried the ball last year he averaged 3.3 yds or less in 5 of them and 14 in 1.

3.3

2.8

2.0

1.8

1.5

Bell on the other hand hand had 7 games in which he averaged over 6.2 ypc (including the playoffs) Dayne did not get a single carry in the playoffs.

6.2

7.5

7.6

8.8

9.2

9.4

10.6

Dayne had 1 TD in 53 attempts

Bell avaged 1 TD per 22 attempts

Dayne has 26 receptions in in 6 years

Bell had 18 last year

Now ask yourself ... Who would I rather have?

 
I still say Dayne sucks and has done nothing to prove he can carry the load. Make no mistake if he isnt performing the RATT will pull the plug on him.

 
Dayne was a sleeper...now he's going in the 4th round which is too high IMO.
Click to expand...
I just took him in the 4th in our No Mercy league because there was no way he was making it back to me in the 5th. I took bell in the 3rd and Dayne in the 4th. Those picks will not only give me depth, but one of them could an absolute stud. Last year Anderson and Bell were ranked 10th and 22nd. 4th may be a tad too high, but it was a long time till I picked again in the 5th round and knew he was going to be snagged.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I still say Dayne sucks and has done nothing to prove he can carry the load. Make no mistake if he isnt performing the RATT will pull the plug on him.
Click to expand...
Oh, and I suppose Tatum Bell has provided a ton of evidence to prove that he can carry the load, instead?
Dayne was a sleeper...now he's going in the 4th round which is too high IMO.
Click to expand...
I just took him in the 4th in our No Mercy league because there was no way he was making it back to me in the 5th.
Click to expand...
I grabbed him in the 3rd because it was a league full of FBGs who all knew how high I was on him, so I didn't know how far they'd let him fall.
 
I just took him in the 4th in our No Mercy league because there was no way he was making it back to me in the 5th.
Click to expand...
I grabbed him in the 3rd because it was a league full of FBGs who all knew how high I was on him, so I didn't know how far they'd let him fall.
Click to expand...
I got him at the 4/5 turn in a No Mercy league.
 
I just took him in the 4th in our No Mercy league because there was no way he was making it back to me in the 5th.
Click to expand...
I grabbed him in the 3rd because it was a league full of FBGs who all knew how high I was on him, so I didn't know how far they'd let him fall.
Click to expand...
I got him at the 4/5 turn in a No Mercy league.
Click to expand...
He's my 3rd keeper at the moment, ahead of Javon Walker. And the 3rd RB on my team. We start two. :bag:
 
I've got a hunch this year that Tatum Bell is going to do something quite special and earn enough carries to put up really nice fantasy numbers. I think the Broncos are doing everything they can to light a fire under his butt and with the way Bell is talking, I believe he realizes it may be now or never for him in 2006.

I don't think he needs 20 carries per game to be a strong fantasy back. He is explosive and will average a strong YPC. If he gets 200 carries on the year, he will put up at least 1,000+ rushing yards and 8 touchdowns.

Dayne may ultimately get more carries but I'll take Bell over him this season just because he can do more with less and his upside is quite a bit greater than is Dayne's.

Bell is one of the value picks of 2006! I'm calling it now.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
 
I've got a hunch this year that Tatum Bell is going to do something quite special and earn enough carries to put up really nice fantasy numbers.  I think the Broncos are doing everything they can to light a fire under his butt and with the way Bell is talking, I believe he realizes it may be now or never for him in 2006.

I don't think he needs 20 carries per game to be a strong fantasy back.  He is explosive and will average a strong YPC.  If he gets 200 carries on the year, he will put up at least 1,000+ rushing yards and 8 touchdowns.

Dayne may ultimately get more carries but I'll take Bell over him this season just because he can do more with less and his upside is quite a bit greater than is Dayne's.

Bell is one of the value picks of 2006!  I'm calling it now.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
While I agree with Mr. Smith, the deciding factor between these two will be goal line carries. Dayne will have more total carries, just as many rushing yds, more tds, but less YPC. No doubt Bell will get a 1000 yds rushing, but my guess is he will get about 5 or 6 tds. I think Dayne will have more value this year. Having said that, Chris is correct that Bell will be a value pick.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Denver RB situation is one of many reasons I'm glad my draft is still a month away.

Right now I like Bell as my RB#3...he'll get some chances and has proven he can be explosive. That said, anyone who's taking either of these guys before the fourth or fifth (right now) is definately reaching based on the questions in Denver.

I can't see how handcuffing a RBBC that early can help build a successful fantasy team. I mean, if they STAY RBBC (as appears strongly possible, maybe even LIKELY)...that's two picks spent for a RB3 caliber player you have to GUESS AT weekly when you have no more then 1 WR, and most likely no starting QB yet.

I'm not sayinig I'm opposed to taking a RB3 before a QB, but why take TWO?

If your draft is now...look elsewhere...the ADP on one or both of these players is way too high ATM. If your draft (like mine) is a month away still...this is a situation I love to see now, because the non-sharks will be looking at magazines far from up to date, and hopefully I'll know who the man will be before the draft. :boxing:

 
As I see it . . .

Dayne

More carries with an average ypc + goal line carries

Bell

Fewer carries with a higher ypc + more receptions

IMO, this makes them both RB2 canditates in a 12-team fantasy league unless that formula somehow changes dramatically.

As I've mentioned in countless other threads, the Broncos have shown that for whatever reason they are not fully enamored with Bell. Think about it . . . they've given the majority RB role to the likes of Griffin, Droughns, Anderson, and now Dayne. They've limited his carries and again appear to be limiting his carries. I do not view that as a resounding endorsement for Bell as a primary ball carrier in Denver.

Dayne obviously has his own issues in his pedestrian numbers that he posted in New York. But as we've all seen over the years, Denver RB have all fared well with very few exceptions. Even if Dayne produces as the worst of the lot, that would still be better than a huge number of RB in the NFL. IMO, Dayne will have a similar role and numbers as say Corey Dillon (fewer carries than most starting RB but with more TD plunge opportunities).

The other option which not many people are talking about is that maybe the Broncos will migrate to more of an aerial attack and run less.

 
I've got a hunch this year that Tatum Bell is going to do something quite special and earn enough carries to put up really nice fantasy numbers.  I think the Broncos are doing everything they can to light a fire under his butt and with the way Bell is talking, I believe he realizes it may be now or never for him in 2006.

I don't think he needs 20 carries per game to be a strong fantasy back.  He is explosive and will average a strong YPC.  If he gets 200 carries on the year, he will put up at least 1,000+ rushing yards and 8 touchdowns.

Dayne may ultimately get more carries but I'll take Bell over him this season just because he can do more with less and his upside is quite a bit greater than is Dayne's.

Bell is one of the value picks of 2006!  I'm calling it now.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
While I agree with Mr. Smith, the deciding factor between these two will be goal line carries. Dayne will have more total carries, just as many rushing yds, more tds, but less YPC. No doubt Bell will get a 1000 yds rushing, but my guess is he will get about 5 or 6 tds. I think Dayne will have more value this year. Having said that, Chris is correct that Bell will be a value pick.
Click to expand...
So, Johnny U, you think Denver will produce two 1G rush yard backs?I think Bell will produce TDs - he is too much of a breakaway threat - I believe if he has 200 carries, and 1G yards, he will have to produce 8+ TDs - Bell doesn't get 5.3 YPC averages b/c he nails 5 yards each time - he does it b/c he tears off 20+ yard runs - that kind of speed means breakaway TDs if he is to carry that many times and still average in the 5.0 range.

I think you are right that, if Dayne is the starter, he will have the carries inside the 10.

 
As I've mentioned in countless other threads, the Broncos have shown that for whatever reason they are not fully enamored with Bell. Think about it . . . they've given the majority RB role to the likes of Griffin, Droughns, Anderson, and now Dayne. They've limited his carries and again appear to be limiting his carries. I do not view that as a resounding endorsement for Bell as a primary ball carrier in Denver.
Click to expand...
And I'm with Chris Smith on the idea that Bell does not need to be the primary/20 carry ball carrier to be a fantasy starting RB.If you need bell to be the primary for him to be fantasy worthy, you rank him where the majority of the staff has ranked him - if you agree with Chris' philosophy, you rank him where he, and I, and JWood have him (I thought it'd be me, but Jason actually has him ranked highest of all the staff - sorted by the last seven days' rankings).

 
So, Johnny U, you think Denver will produce two 1G rush yard backs?
Click to expand...
I do.
Click to expand...
nice.That means they are BOTH fantasy worth RB2/3 players - and are both appropriately being drafted in the 3rd/4th.

So, Johnny U, with two 1G rushers on Denver, I assume you see a down year for Plummer, Rod Smith, and JWalker fantasy-wise? Or do you see this team cranking out huge points every week and everyone gets well?

 
So, Johnny U, you think Denver will produce two 1G rush yard backs?
Click to expand...
I do.
Click to expand...
nice.That means they are BOTH fantasy worth RB2/3 players - and are both appropriately being drafted in the 3rd/4th.

So, Johnny U, with two 1G rushers on Denver, I assume you see a down year for Plummer, Rod Smith, and JWalker fantasy-wise? Or do you see this team cranking out huge points every week and everyone gets well?
Click to expand...
Good question. Last year Plummer was able to pass for 3300+ yds and 18 tds with Bell and Anderson getting 1,935 yds rushing and 20 tds. I see no reason why Plummer can't do just as well or better with Javon Walker in the fold, and Dayne replacing Anderson.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, Johnny U, you think Denver will produce two 1G rush yard backs?
Click to expand...
I do.
Click to expand...
nice.That means they are BOTH fantasy worth RB2/3 players - and are both appropriately being drafted in the 3rd/4th.

So, Johnny U, with two 1G rushers on Denver, I assume you see a down year for Plummer, Rod Smith, and JWalker fantasy-wise? Or do you see this team cranking out huge points every week and everyone gets well?
Click to expand...
Good question. Last year Plummer was able to pass for 3300+ yds and 18 tds with Bell and Anderson getting 1,935 yds rushing and 20 tds. I see no reason why Plummer can't do just as well or better with Javon Walker in the fold, and Dayne replacing Anderson.
Click to expand...
I see your logic.Who do you think benefits most at WR? Lelie was useless last year and Rod Smith had a good year, but not outstanding - he was certainly short-changed at the receiving TDs. Also, the team seems to be moving away from passing to the TE. If Plummer does as well as 2005, do the WRs sort of split his numbers, thereby making both worthy WR2 candidates - or does one or the other become a primary beneficiary, thereby making one potentially a WR1 and the other a borderline WR2?

I personally have Walker pretty high in my rankings, so ither opinions on this subject are welcomed by me.

 
As I've mentioned in countless other threads, the Broncos have shown that for whatever reason they are not fully enamored with Bell.  Think about it . . . they've given the majority RB role to the likes of Griffin, Droughns, Anderson, and now Dayne.  They've limited his carries and again appear to be limiting his carries.  I do not view that as a resounding endorsement for Bell as a primary ball carrier in Denver.
Click to expand...
And I'm with Chris Smith on the idea that Bell does not need to be the primary/20 carry ball carrier to be a fantasy starting RB.If you need bell to be the primary for him to be fantasy worthy, you rank him where the majority of the staff has ranked him - if you agree with Chris' philosophy, you rank him where he, and I, and JWood have him (I thought it'd be me, but Jason actually has him ranked highest of all the staff - sorted by the last seven days' rankings).
Click to expand...
I guess you missed the part of my post where I said that given the expected breakdown of the Denver RB workload that Dayne and Bell would both be fantasy RB2s.
 
As I've mentioned in countless other threads, the Broncos have shown that for whatever reason they are not fully enamored with Bell.  Think about it . . . they've given the majority RB role to the likes of Griffin, Droughns, Anderson, and now Dayne.  They've limited his carries and again appear to be limiting his carries.  I do not view that as a resounding endorsement for Bell as a primary ball carrier in Denver.
Click to expand...
And I'm with Chris Smith on the idea that Bell does not need to be the primary/20 carry ball carrier to be a fantasy starting RB.If you need bell to be the primary for him to be fantasy worthy, you rank him where the majority of the staff has ranked him - if you agree with Chris' philosophy, you rank him where he, and I, and JWood have him (I thought it'd be me, but Jason actually has him ranked highest of all the staff - sorted by the last seven days' rankings).
Click to expand...
I guess you missed the part of my post where I said that given the expected breakdown of the Denver RB workload that Dayne and Bell would both be fantasy RB2s.
Click to expand...
:bag:
 
So, Johnny U, you think Denver will produce two 1G rush yard backs?
Click to expand...
I do.
Click to expand...
nice.That means they are BOTH fantasy worth RB2/3 players - and are both appropriately being drafted in the 3rd/4th.

So, Johnny U, with two 1G rushers on Denver, I assume you see a down year for Plummer, Rod Smith, and JWalker fantasy-wise? Or do you see this team cranking out huge points every week and everyone gets well?
Click to expand...
Good question. Last year Plummer was able to pass for 3300+ yds and 18 tds with Bell and Anderson getting 1,935 yds rushing and 20 tds. I see no reason why Plummer can't do just as well or better with Javon Walker in the fold, and Dayne replacing Anderson.
Click to expand...
I see your logic.Who do you think benefits most at WR? Lelie was useless last year and Rod Smith had a good year, but not outstanding - he was certainly short-changed at the receiving TDs. Also, the team seems to be moving away from passing to the TE. If Plummer does as well as 2005, do the WRs sort of split his numbers, thereby making both worthy WR2 candidates - or does one or the other become a primary beneficiary, thereby making one potentially a WR1 and the other a borderline WR2?

I personally have Walker pretty high in my rankings, so ither opinions on this subject are welcomed by me.
Click to expand...
Providing Walker is rehabbing as well as reported, I definitely see Walker becoming Plummer's favorite target. Rod Smith's value will decrease from this point going forward if Walker is healthy, and for sure in 2007. I think Denver is still trying to trade for a TE, so that is worth watching. If they can land a good one, then I think it affects Rod Smith's numbers even more than Javon Walker. Because Denver will run the ball so much, there are only so many passing plays to go around, and I think Walker is the big winner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right? And that they have almost identical career stats?

 
While I agree that Dayne and Bell can both be considered fantasy starters (as a 2 or 3), I find Dayne to be a more reliable fantasy start (at this time). I'm assuming (LIKE WE ALL ARE!) that Dayne slides into Anderson's role. Bell's numbers last year suggest that while he can blow it up, he can also disappear for a few games. Not exactly what I'm looking for from a starting fantasy RB.

Anyway, this is all just speculation until camp opens up. Sure it's fun to talk about it, but until the pads go on, and preseason games get played, it's all talk.

 
The Denver RB situation is one of many reasons I'm glad my draft is still a month away.

Right now I like Bell as my RB#3...he'll get some chances and has proven he can be explosive. That said, anyone who's taking either of these guys before the fourth or fifth (right now) is definately reaching based on the questions in Denver.

I can't see how handcuffing a RBBC that early can help build a successful fantasy team. I mean, if they STAY RBBC (as appears strongly possible, maybe even LIKELY)...that's two picks spent for a RB3 caliber player you have to GUESS AT weekly when you have no more then 1 WR, and most likely no starting QB yet.

I'm not sayinig I'm opposed to taking a RB3 before a QB, but why take TWO?

If your draft is now...look elsewhere...the ADP on one or both of these players is way too high ATM. If your draft (like mine) is a month away still...this is a situation I love to see now, because the non-sharks will be looking at magazines far from up to date, and hopefully I'll know who the man will be before the draft. :boxing:
Click to expand...
You're partially right. If they stay RBBC, that's two picks spent. I don't see where the guessing is at- last year, no guessing, just start Anderson every week. He had as many bad weeks as all of his peers in the year-end rankings, so starting him every week was no worse of an idea than starting the RB9 or RB11 every week was, either.Also, where's the RB3? Last year, Anderson finished as an RB1, and Bell finished as an RB2. Spending two picks on an RB1 and an RB2 is a very smart move. Even if Denver's rushing game regresses, that's two picks spent on an RB2 and an RB3- still great, even if it costs a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

I see your logic.

Who do you think benefits most at WR? Lelie was useless last year and Rod Smith had a good year, but not outstanding - he was certainly short-changed at the receiving TDs. Also, the team seems to be moving away from passing to the TE. If Plummer does as well as 2005, do the WRs sort of split his numbers, thereby making both worthy WR2 candidates - or does one or the other become a primary beneficiary, thereby making one potentially a WR1 and the other a borderline WR2?

I personally have Walker pretty high in my rankings, so ither opinions on this subject are welcomed by me.
Click to expand...
I don't think the team is moving away from passing to the TE. I think Stephen Alexander isn't a great receiver, and Putzier was never on the field in the red zone due to poor blocking. They started using Kyle Johnson, the fullback, as more of a TD threat in the redzone, but given a TE that can block and catch, he's the guy again. With Dwayne Carswell being healthy again, I think that's the first step in that direction (even though he's technically a guard now).
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right? And that they have almost identical career stats?
Click to expand...
Walker's always been much more of a threat in the red zone, Walker's always been able to run all different routes (short, intermediate, long), Walker's produced against #1 WR coverage. Lelie's never done any of the above. I think Lelie's a very good #2 WR, but Walker's a #1 guy, assuming he can get healthy and regain his form.
 
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right? And that they have almost identical career stats?
Click to expand...
Let see, Walker has 22 tds to Lelie's 12 in 16 fewer games, and only has 11 fewer receptions. What's wrong with this picture?
 
I don't think the team is moving away from passing to the TE. I think Stephen Alexander isn't a great receiver, and Putzier was never on the field in the red zone due to poor blocking. They started using Kyle Johnson, the fullback, as more of a TD threat in the redzone, but given a TE that can block and catch, he's the guy again. With Dwayne Carswell being healthy again, I think that's the first step in that direction (even though he's technically a guard now).
Click to expand...
Well, they need someone catching the ball better at TE - 2002 - 82 catches by TEs2003 - 72 catches by TEs2004 - 66 catches by TEs2005 - 60 catches by TEsThat's def. a downward trend. Dwayne Carswell will not be catching passes - they need him on the OL. I haven't run all the TEs' target numbers, but I am willing to bet they are throwing to the TE less and less b/c they haven't had a pass catcher like SSharpe there - and SS got a ton of catches b/c he went downfield almost every play to EITHER block or catch.The downfield blocking TE is CRUCIAL to their run game - and they need a player who can BOTH block downfield AND catch the ball. They do not currently have a TE on their team who can get downfield fast enough to block for the run game - let alone be open consistently enough to catch the ball down there.
 
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right? And that they have almost identical career stats?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: not quite - at least not on a per game basis.
Click to expand...
Actually, their stats are a lot more identical on a per-game basis than they are as an aggregate whole.Per game stats:

3.27 / 50.92 / .458

2.63 / 46.99 / .188

Aside from the TDs, they're pretty close. Of course, that's because Walker had a worse rookie year and has fewer years since to dilute those numbers with.

 
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right?  And that they have almost identical career stats?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: not quite - at least not on a per game basis.
Click to expand...
Actually, their stats are a lot more identical on a per-game basis than they are as an aggregate whole.Per game stats:

3.27 / 50.92 / .458

2.63 / 46.99 / .188

Aside from the TDs, they're pretty close. Of course, that's because Walker had a worse rookie year and has fewer years since to dilute those numbers with.
Click to expand...
TDs are pretty darned important - esp. since Walker CATCHES the ones in his hands in the RZ and Lelie DROPS the ones in his.
 
You do realize the Walker and Lelie were drafted 1 spot apart right?  And that they have almost identical career stats?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: not quite - at least not on a per game basis.
Click to expand...
Actually, their stats are a lot more identical on a per-game basis than they are as an aggregate whole.Per game stats:

3.27 / 50.92 / .458

2.63 / 46.99 / .188

Aside from the TDs, they're pretty close. Of course, that's because Walker had a worse rookie year and has fewer years since to dilute those numbers with.
Click to expand...
TDs are pretty darned important - esp. since Walker CATCHES the ones in his hands in the RZ and Lelie DROPS the ones in his.
Click to expand...
Now that was :goodposting:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Omarion Hampton is the best draftable rookie
2
Replies
55
Views
1K
smbkrypt24
smbkrypt24
Hot Sauce Guy
It’s Officially Here: Best Shape of His Life SZN!
Replies
22
Views
513
Desert_Power
Desert_Power
Yogibear
It's time to start taking the Denver Broncos seriously, people!
Replies
40
Views
2K
nightmare
nightmare

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top