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Redskins HC Gibbs says RB Portis ahead of schedule (1 Viewer)

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Redskins HC Gibbs says RB Portis ahead of schedule

Written by: Associated Press ¦ 8/23/2006

Source:

Joe Gibbs said RB Clinton Portis is "ahead of schedule" to return in time for the Sept. 11 regular-season opener against Minnesota, but the trade for Duckett offers some insurance in case Portis has a setback or if the shoulder proves troublesome later in the year.

"The fact that Clinton got nicked there causes some concerns," Gibbs said. "It probably causes you to think. But there certainly wasn't a panic to do something. But when T.J.'s name came up, we felt it was something we needed to research."

 
Redskins HC Gibbs says RB Portis ahead of schedule Written by: Associated Press ¦ 8/23/2006 Source: Joe Gibbs said RB Clinton Portis is "ahead of schedule" to return in time for the Sept. 11 regular-season opener against Minnesota, but the trade for Duckett offers some insurance in case Portis has a setback or if the shoulder proves troublesome later in the year."The fact that Clinton got nicked there causes some concerns," Gibbs said. "It probably causes you to think. But there certainly wasn't a panic to do something. But when T.J.'s name came up, we felt it was something we needed to research."
I think this is a good sign for Portis owners. I am not in the boat that believes the trade for TJ is because Portis is worse off than what the fantasy community believes. All signs point to him being fine to start the first week of the regular season but for some reason it's more fun to try to find reasons he wont. They already lost a backup RB for the whole season, if Betts or Portis gets injured then the Redskins can probably kiss their Superbowl run goodbye. This is more of an insurance plan to get the trophy this year.I dont agree with the way the Redskins build their team but this shouldnt be suprising to anyone, how many draft picks did they have this year again?
 
:crickets:

where are all the "sky is falling on CP" posters? :loco:

we had 7 pages in one night of how BAD this (trade) looks, and the quickly guy plummets from stud (some even predicting RB1 here) to RB28 in a coulple hours.

I'm not even hinting @ saying "i told you so", b/c this has a long way to go before it's over, but last night was a feeding frenzy in the pool unlike any other I've seen. And the portis owners / supporters were getting abused. Possibly for no reason - aside from a couple goal line tds vultured (now by TJ) that were likely going to Betts anyway pre trade.

Gibbs posturing to keep MN off balance, maybe.

CP actually going to be OK, and looking at almost another 3 weeks (WAS is MNF week 1) till "real" kickoff anyway for more recovery time? :popcorn:

 
I call it "the Portis Panic". People are talking about Portis in the second round. That's just nuts. Let's say that Portis couldn't go in week one, with Washington's playoff aspirations. If Betts went down, then what? Rock Cartwright? I don't think so, and neither did Gibbs. Duckett=Aflac

 
I call it "the Portis Panic". People are talking about Portis in the second round. That's just nuts. Let's say that Portis couldn't go in week one, with Washington's playoff aspirations. If Betts went down, then what? Rock Cartwright? I don't think so, and neither did Gibbs. Duckett=Aflac
According to Adam Schefter on the NFL network after a recent interview with Portis:"I get the sense that he (Portis) is not going to rush back from this injury and is not going to play in the Monday Night regular season opener against the Vikings."Take it for what it's worth.
 
This most likely sounds stupid, but my biggest problem is what's coming out of Portis' mouth. If I were hearing things like

"They won't be able to keep me off the field", and/or "I'm going to do everything possible to be ready for the opener", i'd feel a lot better. Even if it was mostly BS, it's what i'd want to hear.

Instead, you hear "i don't know...we'll have to see....and I'll play when it's fully healed".

throw me a bone, CP. :football:

 
This most likely sounds stupid, but my biggest problem is what's coming out of Portis' mouth. If I were hearing things like "They won't be able to keep me off the field", and/or "I'm going to do everything possible to be ready for the opener", i'd feel a lot better. Even if it was mostly BS, it's what i'd want to hear. Instead, you hear "i don't know...we'll have to see....and I'll play when it's fully healed".throw me a bone, CP. :football:
As a future draft prospect (upcoming) I get this, but as a current owner (in 2 leagues), this is fine by me. I'd rather him come back when he's ready for business as usual vs. playing cautious w/ concerns about the injury. If that means a game or 2 to start the season, then so be it. Everyone *should* have drafted well enough (especially @ RB) to get by for a week or two while this works itself out.I'm done w/ my re-drafts, and CP's gone in my last keeper league - so I'm already "all in", but if I drafted CP in R1/2 now, I'd probably burn one extra WR flier pick and grab BOTH Lundi and Morency. There's your early season insurance plan. Or, just take Duckett a little earlier than normal (guessing 6th now since I got him last week in the 10th in a 14 team re-draft), and plug him in. IMHO Betts is getting pushed out.Here's to the guy in my league who "vultured" Betts from me in the 8th round, when I took Duckett 2 rounds later... ;)
 
I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.

 
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Portis if healthy can/will still have a top 12 RB season. I may even be willing to bet that he will probaly get to double digit TD's. The Redskins will score from the ground lots this season and therefore Portis will get some of that love.

I think of Tiki's numbers with Jacobs being a vulture last season yet Tiki still had double digit td's. Guys that have TD's vultured still get chances to score. Heck C. Williams had plenty of vultures last season yet he still put up 6 TD's in his rookie season.

Portis should be considered a poor man's Tiki but is still a viable top end RB 2 option at the very minimum of course with a RB 1 ceililng.

Remember Barber, Dunn and Parker all finished as top 15 RB's last season even though they were not the so called goaline backs.

If Portis is healthy from the start of the season he finishes as a top 12 back.

 
-- Redskins Injury Update - Portis Could Miss Regular Season Opener --

Wed Aug 23, 2006 --from FFMastermind.com

NFL.com's Adam Schefter reports Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis (shoulder) is determined to take as much time as needed to make sure his shoulder is right before he returns to action. Meanwhile, RB Ladell Betts (hamstring) has been nursing a hamstring problem that has flared up at unpredictable times. Thus, the Redskins traded for Falcons RB T.J. Duckett

----------------------------

If you are expecting much out of Portis, early this regular season, then you are in a very sad case of denial. :yes:

 
-- Redskins Injury Update - Portis Could Miss Regular Season Opener --Wed Aug 23, 2006 --from FFMastermind.comNFL.com's Adam Schefter reports Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis (shoulder) is determined to take as much time as needed to make sure his shoulder is right before he returns to action. Meanwhile, RB Ladell Betts (hamstring) has been nursing a hamstring problem that has flared up at unpredictable times. Thus, the Redskins traded for Falcons RB T.J. Duckett----------------------------If you are expecting much out of Portis, early this regular season, then you are in a very sad case of denial. :yes:
LOFL - like you know jack ####
 
I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
:goodposting: The only way that Portis is going to be a RB4 like most people had him pre-injury is if he goes into a game, pounds out 25 carries, collides with every LB, D-lineman, ball boy, and golf cart-driving mascot in the stadium, and shows zero ill effects from that.

First of all, even under the best of circumstances, when do you suppose Joe Gibbs would even consider allowing such an experiment? Second, when is the earliest you think that that would be possible for Portis to do that?

Portis' assignment on this, a team that expects to win playoff games this year is to be completely healthy when December and January roll around.

IMHO, it will be week 4 at the earliest that we see Portis with 20 carries, and more likely later than that. I predicted 290 carries was probably more or less what the team wanted to give him anyway, and that only comes to 18 carries per game over an entire season.

Duckett is there to take the wear and tear off of him and to keep him fresh for the entire season. Duckett will get the goalline carries. Duckett will get the 4th quarter grind-out-the-clock-with-a-lead carries. Duckett will get the carries in a series in the second quarter to keep the load off of Portis.

That's the way I see this season going for Portis. Under the best of circumstances, he's at the tail end of the top 10 RB's. More likely, he's just a bit lower than that. I think RB12 is about as good of a slot to put him into as you can come up with at present.

 
I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
Interesting take here... I would guess that from the bolded part Barber is slotted close to Portis - let's say 10th for the sake of the discussion...Suppose you have the 9th pick... From the second bolded part, you state that you are not willing to take risk with your first pick (I second that)... but then, excluding Portis & Barber (who are slotted later as mentioned above) - who's the safe pick?

Assuming that: LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexander / Jackson / Jordan / RJohnson / Brown / Williams are gone... who's the safe guy? Westbrook? James? Davis? Parker? Droughns? McGahee? KJones? JJones? Bush? Dunn? Taylor?... I'd be hard press to pass on Portis or Barber there... just asking who's the safe guy - because I want to draft him!

 
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:crickets:

where are all the "sky is falling on CP" posters? :loco:

we had 7 pages in one night of how BAD this (trade) looks, and the quickly guy plummets from stud (some even predicting RB1 here) to RB28 in a coulple hours.

I'm not even hinting @ saying "i told you so", b/c this has a long way to go before it's over, but last night was a feeding frenzy in the pool unlike any other I've seen. And the portis owners / supporters were getting abused. Possibly for no reason - aside from a couple goal line tds vultured (now by TJ) that were likely going to Betts anyway pre trade.

Gibbs posturing to keep MN off balance, maybe.

CP actually going to be OK, and looking at almost another 3 weeks (WAS is MNF week 1) till "real" kickoff anyway for more recovery time? :popcorn:
:lmao: Vikes gonna get killed in that game no matter who the RB is.
 
I don't believe it's coach speak. I'm not worried about his injury as much as Duckett possibly being the GL specialist and vulturing TD's.

 
NO NO NO

You guys said Portis was dying of ball cancer damnnit. He's going to get 180 carries with 600 yards and 2TD and need surgery by week 8.. I read it here!

 
I don't believe it's coach speak. I'm not worried about his injury as much as Duckett possibly being the GL specialist and vulturing TD's.
I would go ahead and bank that one. Duckett is going to get the lion's share of the goalline work. He's a bull, and it'll take the wear and tear off of Portis.
 
On a local sports radio show yesterday Doc Walker commented on the trade. He believed the reason that the Skins took Duckett was to block the Eagles from acquiring him as they were supposedly showing a strong interest.

This makes a bit of sense since the Skins also took a look at S Davis after the Eagles did.

As a skins fan I do like the fact that a legitamte deep threat and a legitimate running back have been removed from the prospect pool for the Eagles.

Just food for thought.

RMJ

 
I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
Interesting take here... I would guess that from the bolded part Barber is slotted close to Portis - let's say 10th for the sake of the discussion...Suppose you have the 9th pick... From the second bolded part, you state that you are not willing to take risk with your first pick (I second that)... but then, excluding Portis & Barber (who are slotted later as mentioned above) - who's the safe pick?

Assuming that: LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexander / Jackson / Jordan / RJohnson / Brown / Williams are gone... who's the safe guy? Westbrook? James? Davis? Parker? Droughns? McGahee? KJones? JJones? Bush? Dunn? Taylor?... I'd be hard press to pass on Portis or Barber there... just asking who's the safe guy - because I want to draft him!
:goodposting:
 
:crickets:

where are all the "sky is falling on CP" posters? :loco:

we had 7 pages in one night of how BAD this (trade) looks, and the quickly guy plummets from stud (some even predicting RB1 here) to RB28 in a coulple hours.

I'm not even hinting @ saying "i told you so", b/c this has a long way to go before it's over, but last night was a feeding frenzy in the pool unlike any other I've seen. And the portis owners / supporters were getting abused. Possibly for no reason - aside from a couple goal line tds vultured (now by TJ) that were likely going to Betts anyway pre trade.

Gibbs posturing to keep MN off balance, maybe.

CP actually going to be OK, and looking at almost another 3 weeks (WAS is MNF week 1) till "real" kickoff anyway for more recovery time? :popcorn:
:lmao: Vikes gonna get killed in that game no matter who the RB is.
:goodposting:
 
He must be lying.
Source: Jason La Canfora, Washington PostAccording to several league sources, while the Washington Redskins have begun preliminary negotiations with running back Ladell Betts on a new contract -- Betts is in the final year of his deal-- the Redskins may ultimately wind up trading him as the final cutdown to 53-man rosters is only two weeks away. Several teams have reportedly expressed interest in Betts over the course of the summer.

 
He must be lying.
Source: Jason La Canfora, Washington PostAccording to several league sources, while the Washington Redskins have begun preliminary negotiations with running back Ladell Betts on a new contract -- Betts is in the final year of his deal-- the Redskins may ultimately wind up trading him as the final cutdown to 53-man rosters is only two weeks away. Several teams have reportedly expressed interest in Betts over the course of the summer.
I saw this yesterday. Are the Skins assuming that Duckett will be cheaper to sign in the offseason than Betts?
 
He must be lying.
Source: Jason La Canfora, Washington PostAccording to several league sources, while the Washington Redskins have begun preliminary negotiations with running back Ladell Betts on a new contract -- Betts is in the final year of his deal-- the Redskins may ultimately wind up trading him as the final cutdown to 53-man rosters is only two weeks away. Several teams have reportedly expressed interest in Betts over the course of the summer.
I saw this yesterday. Are the Skins assuming that Duckett will be cheaper to sign in the offseason than Betts?
I wouldn't say that. I think they think he's better, and thus, preferable.
 
The team has not been happy with Betts' history of nagging injuries. In the recent words of Gregg Williams (about a defensive player, but I've head Joe Bugel say the same thing too), "There are two 'As' you have to have if you want to play for me: accountability and availability. Chris (Clemons) suffered from the second one. He was never able to stay on the field."

This was the main reason in light of Portis' injury why they signed Duckett.

 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.

 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.
:no:The only areas in which Betts has a clear advantage over Duckett are receiving and straight line speed. Duckett is a more powerful runner.
 
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August 24, 2006, 06:53 Redskins :: RBHC Gibbs Expects RB Portis To Start Week 1Jason La Canfora, Washington Post - [Full Article]HC Joe Gibbs admitted that RB Clinton Portis's shoulder injury "causes you to think" more about running back depth, but said Portis's rehab is ahead of schedule and that he expects him to be starting in Week 1.
 
Its always worrying when the team claims there is no schedule, and then claims a player is ahead of the schedule.

That being said, I think Portis's injury isnt the type to keep him out of the opener. The problem with shoulders popping out is that they may heal fast, but they also tend to reoccur. I think that as much as anything sprang the Duckett trade. If i'm a Portis owner, i'm less worried about the opener and more worried about missing time later in the season, perhaps at a critical moment. Every time Portis gets tackled you almost have to bite your nails. Shoulders are a pain.

 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.
:no:The only areas in which Betts has a clear advantage over Duckett are receiving and straight line speed. Duckett is a more powerful runner.
Well, Betts can also make cuts and change direction, which Duckett can't, so yeah, he's a better all around back like I said.
 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.
:no: The only areas in which Betts has a clear advantage over Duckett are receiving and straight line speed. Duckett is a more powerful runner.
Well, Betts can also make cuts and change direction, which Duckett can't, so yeah, he's a better all around back like I said.
Nice try, but no. Here's as good of a summary and analysis of the overall trade and the reasons for it as I've found, with an entire section devoted to Betts. Read and learn:

Duckett Deal Raises Questions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rich Tandler

WarpathInsiders.com Aug 23, 2006

Tandler's Redskins Blog Ver. 08.24.06--While the deal for T. J. Duckett is not the biggest in team history, rarely has a trade had so many ripple effects and raised so many questions as this three-team transaction.

You can reach Rich Tandler by email at WarpathInsiders@comcast.net

What exactly did the Redskins give up in this deal?

You’ve heard a third-round pick, but that’s not entirely accurate. The compensation will have the draft pick trade chart value of a third-round, but it may not be a third-rounder that changes hands. According to Bill Williamson in the Denver Post, and confirmed by Warpath’s John Keim, these are the possible scenarios:

The two teams exchange first-round picks, in which the Broncos would make a huge jump up the round

The teams flip-flop their first-rounders and the Broncos get a fourth-rounder in 2008

The teams flip-flop their first-rounders and the Broncos get a third- rounder next year

The Broncos get a third-rounder in 2007 and a fourth-rounder in 2008.

To make this as expensive as possible, let’s assume that they are looking at the point value of the first pick in the draft, which on the 2006 chart was 265 points. So, somehow or another, the Redskins have to transfer 265 points to the Broncos. Obviously for any of the first three scenarios listed to happen the Broncos would have to the picking later than the Redskins meaning that the Broncos would need to have a better record in 2006.

Let’s say that the Broncos win the Super Bowl and have the 32nd pick of the first round. To make up those 265 points in an exchange of first-round picks the Redskins would have to own the 20th pick or better. Presumably scenarios #2 and #3 will come into play if the teams are closer together in their draft positions. The fourth possibility, the one that has the Redskins giving up the two picks for Duckett, would occur if the Redskins finish with a better record than the Broncos.

On the face of it giving up a first-day pick for a player with one year left on his contract is a pretty hefty price, one that says very loudly that the Redskins are looking to win it all in 2006.

What does this tell us about Portis’ condition?

The “smart set” out there is saying that this trade means that the condition of Clinton Portis’ shoulder is worse, maybe much worse, than the Redskins are letting on. While it’s in the realm of possibility that there is some truth in this line of thinking it is sheer speculation. People are certainly entitled to being able to engage in that in this age of instant analysis. So I’ll exercise my right and engage in some sheer speculation of my own and try to get into Joe Gibbs’ thinking here. I’m speculating that Gibbs made this deal for two reasons.

First, in his first go around in the NFL he liked to have multiple starting-caliber running backs. In the early years it was John Riggins and Joe Washington. The second Super Bowl was won with George Rogers and Kelvin Bryant gaining the yards during the regular season and then with Timmy Smith setting the Super Bowl rushing record that still stands. In ’91 rookie Ricky Ervins spelled Ernest Byner and Gerald Riggs toted the rock over the goal line.

Now he has Portis and. . .who? Ladell Betts has shown flashes but he hasn’t shown enough to be considered a starting-caliber back. Rock Cartwright is a great guy and a superb special teams player but as a starting running back, well, he’s a great guy. Nemo Broughton? He got his audition in the late going against the Jets on Saturday and was just OK and he fumbled the ball away. Jesse Lumsden? This is the big leagues here, not the CFL. Although Duckett has started just 13 games in his four seasons, that’s eight more than all of the Redskins’ backs not named Portis have started combined.

Second, Gibbs wants to save some of Portis for when it really counts. Last year the Redskins played 18 games. By the last couple of games, the playoffs, Portis was pretty beaten up. Despite all of the talk we heard earlier in the year about Betts taking some of the load off, Portis got virtually every single carry of any significance all year long. Add to it the X factor of the injured shoulder and the fact that he’s starting off the year banged up and there is good reason to want to make sure that his load can be made lighter.

The Redskins hope to play in 19 or 20 games in 2006. If their season is going to last longer, Portis is going to have to last longer. Duckett should help make that happen.

This deal doesn’t necessarily mean that the team thinks that Portis will be unavailable for the start of the regular season. It does mean that the want to increase the chances that he will be available for the end of the season.

What about Betts?

Betts quoted as saying, “I don’t understand it” in regards to this trade. I don’t understand something either. I don’t understand why he thinks he’s entitled to anything. Again, he’s shown flashes, but they have been few and far between. What haven’t been few and far between are his injuries. Imagine if the Cincinnati game was a regular-season game. Portis goes down early, Gibbs turns around to look for Betts to go in and, oops, he’s on the bench with a tweaked hammy.

Betts hasn’t proven to be much of a role player either. He’s not a short-yardage back. In 2005 he carried just twice in third and two or less situations and netted a loss of two yards. Third and long hasn’t proven to be his specialty either unless you consider 10 catches for a 7.8-yard average and four first downs to be an acceptable level of production in that role.

If Portis were to miss some significant time, say three or four games in a row, could Betts be relied upon to carry the load, to carry 20-25 times a game? His body of work suggests that he can’t.

This is not to say that Betts is worthless. He has good size, decent speed and good running instincts. The guy can play the game. But if you’ve been around for four years and you have nothing to hang your hat on, you don’t have a role that you own, you haven’t instilled confidence that you could handle the starting job even in the short term much less over the long haul, you should expect to be challenged.

I’m willing to write off Betts’ comments as a heat of the moment type of thing. Nobody likes to have competition brought in and he can be forgiven for having an emotional reaction.

But any player on this team that has an entitlement mentality and doesn’t believe that he needs to go out and earn his playing time will soon find his way onto the end of the bench and, eventually, will find his way out of town.

What’s the bottom line here?

The Redskins have once again shown that they are the most aggressive organization in the game. If they believe they have a hole that needs to be filled, they go out and fill it with the best player they can get. They don’t care if someone is going to get on the air or in front of a keyboard and write that they overpaid for that player. It happens virtually every time they acquire a player. It started when everyone said they overpaid for Portis and for Mark Brunell in Gibbs’ first acquisitions. Since then they’ve paid too much for Marcus Washington and Shawn Springs, gave up too much to get Rocky McIntosh, took an unbearable cap hit to swing the deal to get Santana Moss and so on. The Redskins made the moves anyway.

Let’s talk about this concept of “overpaid” for a minute here. A house in my neighborhood sold for $200,000 recently. I look at the house and the size of the lot that it’s on and I would say that the family that bought it overpaid for it. But it so happens that the house backs up to the elementary school and the family that bought it has two young children. To me, the proximity to the school is worthless but it was quite valuable to the family that will have their kids’ school in their back yard for the next several years. They were willing to “overpay” for the house for that reason.

To me, any money spent on a two-seat Porsche is overpaying because I don’t like driving cars like that and I have no use for one. Others would feel the same way about the minivans and SUV’s that I prefer. It’s all a matter of utility to the end user. In this particular instance, Duckett has a great deal of utility for the Washington Redskins. They gave up what they had to in order to get his services. They are now in a position where they could sustain an injury at running back and where they can better spread out the workload at the position if everyone stays healthy. They also have gained the short-yardage and goal-line power back that they have been missing for the past couple of years.

While there is no question that they will be better in 2006 for having made this deal, there is the matter of the third-round pick, possibly more. At least in all of the other “overpayment” situations mentioned above the player obtained was under contract for a number of years. Duckett becomes an unrestricted free agent after this season and a third round pick is a high price for a one-season rental.

The Redskins haven’t exactly pushed all of their chips into the pot, gambling that they will win it all in 2006. But the pile in the middle of the table keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Rich Tandler is the author of The Redskins From A to Z, Volume One: The Games. This unique book has an account of every game the Redskins played from when they moved to Washington in 1937 through the 2001 season. For details and ordering information go to http://www.RedskinsGames.com
 
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Let's say Portis begins the season with no noticable limitations from the injury. Does Duckett get goalline carries all season if he's adequately productive? On a lesser note, does this ever start to piss off Portis?

 
Let's say Portis begins the season with no noticable limitations from the injury. Does Duckett get goalline carries all season if he's adequately productive? On a lesser note, does this ever start to piss off Portis?
I say "yes" to the first one. "No" to the second. Portis is a team guy and he knows that his job as primary back is not in jeopardy.
 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.
:no:

The only areas in which Betts has a clear advantage over Duckett are receiving and straight line speed. Duckett is a more powerful runner.
Well, Betts can also make cuts and change direction, which Duckett can't, so yeah, he's a better all around back like I said.
Nice try, but no.
Quoting one writer's opinion from a virtually unknown web site does not prove a point. I conceded the injury history which is the only point this guy makes. I'm sure I can dig upo some BS somewhere that says Betts is more complete. Fact is, Duckett has one direction, straight forward, and isn't all that fast. Regardless of injury history and team needs, that makes him a less complete back than just about every back in the league other than Brandon Jacobs. :bye:

 
Hmmm, iinteresting that they apparently have little confidence in Betts. I'm assuming it's his injury history cause when healthy I think he's a much better and ,more all-around back than Duckett, who is pretty much three yards and a cloud of dust.
:no:

The only areas in which Betts has a clear advantage over Duckett are receiving and straight line speed. Duckett is a more powerful runner.
Well, Betts can also make cuts and change direction, which Duckett can't, so yeah, he's a better all around back like I said.
Nice try, but no.
Quoting one writer's opinion from a virtually unknown web site does not prove a point. I conceded the injury history which is the only point this guy makes. I'm sure I can dig upo some BS somewhere that says Betts is more complete. Fact is, Duckett has one direction, straight forward, and isn't all that fast. Regardless of injury history and team needs, that makes him a less complete back than just about every back in the league other than Brandon Jacobs. :bye:

If you're happy arguing that Justin Fargas is a "more complete back" than Jerome Bettis, then who am I to argue. :mellow:

BTW, if you don't know who John Keim is, then you obviously don't follow the Redskins very closely. :bye: back atcha.

 
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I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
Interesting take here... I would guess that from the bolded part Barber is slotted close to Portis - let's say 10th for the sake of the discussion...Suppose you have the 9th pick... From the second bolded part, you state that you are not willing to take risk with your first pick (I second that)... but then, excluding Portis & Barber (who are slotted later as mentioned above) - who's the safe pick?
You're distorting my message. Nowhere in my post do I state that Barber should be slotted close to Portis. My analogy is for the purposes of explaining the potential roles of the RBs in Washington due to the Portis injury and Duckett acquisition. Over the past four years, Barber has tallied 8146 yards from scrimmage. That average of 203+ yardage only fantasy points would place him 15th, 13th, 11th and 8th at the RB position from 2002-2005, respectively (excluding his own position for those seasons, of course).More recently, compare Barber and Portis in 2004-2005:

Barber: 3378 rush yd + 1108 rec yd = 4486 total yards = 224.3 fppg yardage only

Portis: 2831 rush yrd + 451 rec yd = 3282 total yards = 164.1 fppg yardage only

So Tiki is already ahead by 60 pts without TDs factored in to the totals.

More stats from 2004-2005:

Rush TDs from 1-2 yards: Barber 6, Portis 7

Rush TDs from 3-5 yards: Barber 7, Portis 2

Rush TDs from 6-9 yards: Barber 1, Portis 2

Other TDs (rec, long rush): Barber 11, Portis 9

Average fantasy points per season (2004-2005) under various conditions:

Total points: Barber 299.3, Portis 224.1 (Barber:Portis ratio = 1.336)

Total except 1-2 yd rush TDs: Barber 281.3, Portis 203.1 (ratio = 1.385)

Total except 1-5 yd rush TDs: Barber 260.3, Portis 197.1 (ratio = 1.321)

Total except 1-9 yd rush TDs: Barber 257.3, Portis 191.1 (ratio = 1.346)

Clearly, under virtually any metric, Barber has outperformed Portis by a 4:3 ratio in the past two seasons. Much speculation abounded that Portis would take a large step up with the hiring of Saunders, increasing his reception totals, etc. However, most of that bump needs to be tempered given the injury to the shoulder and the acquisition of Duckett.

Even if you project Barber's numbers to decrease by 15% over his 2004-2005 pace, Portis' numbers must increase by 15% just to bring the two to the same level.

Hopefully, I've made my point about why Barber is slotted at least at #5 and logically at #4, 6-8 slots above Portis.

Assuming that: LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexander / Jackson / Jordan / RJohnson / Brown / Williams are gone... who's the safe guy? Westbrook? James? Davis? Parker? Droughns? McGahee? KJones? JJones? Bush? Dunn? Taylor?... I'd be hard press to pass on Portis or Barber there... just asking who's the safe guy - because I want to draft him!
You're still distorting my words. I can agree that people have different ideas of what makes a given player "safe" but remember that all I said was that this degree of risk tolerance is likely to factor into each individual owner's ranking of Portis. You can't just ignore the fact that elsewhere in the very same post I stated Portis fits into a range from 8-15.Given my above statistical breakdown, you already know that I place Barber as the safest pick after the top 3. My order for the other backs you list would likely differ, but they're probably all in line one way or another along with James. At this point, then, we're up to #11, or right around where I think Portis belongs. If my math is right, 11 fits right next to 12 and is between 8 and 15. Sounds familiar, don't you think?

 
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I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
Interesting take here... I would guess that from the bolded part Barber is slotted close to Portis - let's say 10th for the sake of the discussion...Suppose you have the 9th pick... From the second bolded part, you state that you are not willing to take risk with your first pick (I second that)... but then, excluding Portis & Barber (who are slotted later as mentioned above) - who's the safe pick?
You're distorting my message. Nowhere in my post do I state that Barber should be slotted close to Portis. My analogy is for the purposes of explaining the potential roles of the RBs in Washington due to the Portis injury and Duckett acquisition. Over the past four years, Barber has tallied 8146 yards from scrimmage. That average of 203+ yardage only fantasy points would place him 15th, 13th, 11th and 8th at the RB position from 2002-2005, respectively (excluding his own position for those seasons, of course).More recently, compare Barber and Portis in 2004-2005:

Barber: 3378 rush yd + 1108 rec yd = 4486 total yards = 224.3 fppg yardage only

Portis: 2831 rush yrd + 451 rec yd = 3282 total yards = 164.1 fppg yardage only

So Tiki is already ahead by 60 pts without TDs factored in to the totals.

More stats from 2004-2005:

Rush TDs from 1-2 yards: Barber 6, Portis 7

Rush TDs from 3-5 yards: Barber 7, Portis 2

Rush TDs from 6-9 yards: Barber 1, Portis 2

Other TDs (rec, long rush): Barber 11, Portis 9

Average fantasy points per season (2004-2005) under various conditions:

Total points: Barber 299.3, Portis 224.1 (Barber:Portis ratio = 1.336)

Total except 1-2 yd rush TDs: Barber 281.3, Portis 203.1 (ratio = 1.385)

Total except 1-5 yd rush TDs: Barber 260.3, Portis 197.1 (ratio = 1.321)

Total except 1-9 yd rush TDs: Barber 257.3, Portis 191.1 (ratio = 1.346)

Clearly, under virtually any metric, Barber has outperformed Portis by a 4:3 ratio in the past two seasons. Much speculation abounded that Portis would take a large step up with the hiring of Saunders, increasing his reception totals, etc. However, most of that bump needs to be tempered given the injury to the shoulder and the acquisition of Duckett.

Even if you project Barber's numbers to decrease by 15% over his 2004-2005 pace, Portis' numbers must increase by 15% just to bring the two to the same level.

Hopefully, I've made my point about why Barber is slotted at least at #5 and logically at #4, 6-8 slots above Portis.

Assuming that: LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexander / Jackson / Jordan / RJohnson / Brown / Williams are gone... who's the safe guy? Westbrook? James? Davis? Parker? Droughns? McGahee? KJones? JJones? Bush? Dunn? Taylor?... I'd be hard press to pass on Portis or Barber there... just asking who's the safe guy - because I want to draft him!
You're still distorting my words. I can agree that people have different ideas of what makes a given player "safe" but remember that all I said was that this degree of risk tolerance is likely to factor into each individual owner's ranking of Portis. You can't just ignore the fact that elsewhere in the very same post I stated Portis fits into a range from 8-15.Given my above statistical breakdown, you already know that I place Barber as the safest pick after the top 3. My order for the other backs you list would likely differ, but they're probably all in line one way or another along with James. At this point, then, we're up to #11, or right around where I think Portis belongs. If my math is right, 11 fits right next to 12 and is between 8 and 15. Sounds familiar, don't you think?
Fair enough - indeed, you never mentioned that Barber was slotted near Portis - just that the situation had similarities...Interesting enough though - you look at the last two years for statistical comparisons - which were Barber's best two seasons in his career while Portis first year in Washington was his worst... If we expand the study to the last 4 years (Portis complete career - including his rookie season - while Barber was already a starting tailback in his prime) ... we find that their respective yardage from scrimmage average is closer (Barber: 2036 to Portis: 1765) - a 1.6 point per game advantage to Barber: which is still not negligeable - but that difference is hopefully not what you were leaning on to win your weekly matchup

Let's add the historical fact about declining RBs in their 30s (though Barber did not have many touches prior to the last 4 years) and to think Portis is only 25 (and thus healing very quickly also)...

Adding that, if we look at Saunders way of using his RBs: receptions / not using a goal line specialist (even though one might argue that the featured RB was a better GL ballcarrier)... I'm not convinced that Portis should be downgraded to the 12th spot...

Finally, we all know that every RB is a bad hit away from missing game time (let's remind us that "Everyone in a risk injury")... not preseason / but real FF points game... I'm not so sure I would let Portis go by me and pick Davis or McGahee with the 11th pick... (and I'm not saying you wouldn't pick him there since you slot him 8-15)

I definitely agree that Duckett's presence cuts down on Portis tremendous potential (since we all know that Duckett is an efficient goal line carrier)... but to downgrade him to the 12th spot - I'm not so sure... I respectfully disagree with your thinking (I guess I would be the one ending with Portis if we played together this season :P )

 
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I posted in last night's thread. I drew an analogy to the Giants with Portis playing the Barber role. On that basis, I slotted Portis anywhere from 8-15, and offered #12 as a singular slot.

This news doesn't change my opinion at all. I still see a significant chance for a decrease in total touches compared to 2005, and on top of that, the threat of recurrence which could lead to missed time for Portis. Even if he does not suffer any setbacks, Gibbs is more likely to protect him in the early part of the season.

In my opinion, a significant part of the discrepancy between the two camps on Portis is the amount of risk tolerance people are willing to accept with a potential top 8 pick. I'm not as willing to take risks with my first two picks as I am later in the draft. Others are.
Interesting take here... I would guess that from the bolded part Barber is slotted close to Portis - let's say 10th for the sake of the discussion...Suppose you have the 9th pick... From the second bolded part, you state that you are not willing to take risk with your first pick (I second that)... but then, excluding Portis & Barber (who are slotted later as mentioned above) - who's the safe pick?
You're distorting my message. Nowhere in my post do I state that Barber should be slotted close to Portis. My analogy is for the purposes of explaining the potential roles of the RBs in Washington due to the Portis injury and Duckett acquisition. Over the past four years, Barber has tallied 8146 yards from scrimmage. That average of 203+ yardage only fantasy points would place him 15th, 13th, 11th and 8th at the RB position from 2002-2005, respectively (excluding his own position for those seasons, of course).More recently, compare Barber and Portis in 2004-2005:

Barber: 3378 rush yd + 1108 rec yd = 4486 total yards = 224.3 fppg yardage only

Portis: 2831 rush yrd + 451 rec yd = 3282 total yards = 164.1 fppg yardage only

So Tiki is already ahead by 60 pts without TDs factored in to the totals.

More stats from 2004-2005:

Rush TDs from 1-2 yards: Barber 6, Portis 7

Rush TDs from 3-5 yards: Barber 7, Portis 2

Rush TDs from 6-9 yards: Barber 1, Portis 2

Other TDs (rec, long rush): Barber 11, Portis 9

Average fantasy points per season (2004-2005) under various conditions:

Total points: Barber 299.3, Portis 224.1 (Barber:Portis ratio = 1.336)

Total except 1-2 yd rush TDs: Barber 281.3, Portis 203.1 (ratio = 1.385)

Total except 1-5 yd rush TDs: Barber 260.3, Portis 197.1 (ratio = 1.321)

Total except 1-9 yd rush TDs: Barber 257.3, Portis 191.1 (ratio = 1.346)

Clearly, under virtually any metric, Barber has outperformed Portis by a 4:3 ratio in the past two seasons. Much speculation abounded that Portis would take a large step up with the hiring of Saunders, increasing his reception totals, etc. However, most of that bump needs to be tempered given the injury to the shoulder and the acquisition of Duckett.

Even if you project Barber's numbers to decrease by 15% over his 2004-2005 pace, Portis' numbers must increase by 15% just to bring the two to the same level.

Hopefully, I've made my point about why Barber is slotted at least at #5 and logically at #4, 6-8 slots above Portis.

Assuming that: LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexander / Jackson / Jordan / RJohnson / Brown / Williams are gone... who's the safe guy? Westbrook? James? Davis? Parker? Droughns? McGahee? KJones? JJones? Bush? Dunn? Taylor?... I'd be hard press to pass on Portis or Barber there... just asking who's the safe guy - because I want to draft him!
You're still distorting my words. I can agree that people have different ideas of what makes a given player "safe" but remember that all I said was that this degree of risk tolerance is likely to factor into each individual owner's ranking of Portis. You can't just ignore the fact that elsewhere in the very same post I stated Portis fits into a range from 8-15.Given my above statistical breakdown, you already know that I place Barber as the safest pick after the top 3. My order for the other backs you list would likely differ, but they're probably all in line one way or another along with James. At this point, then, we're up to #11, or right around where I think Portis belongs. If my math is right, 11 fits right next to 12 and is between 8 and 15. Sounds familiar, don't you think?
Fair enough - indeed, you never mentioned that Barber was slotted near Portis - just that the situation had similarities...Interesting enough though - you look at the last two years for statistical comparisons - which were Barber's best two seasons in his career while Portis first year in Washington was his worst... If we expand the study to the last 4 years (Portis complete career - including his rookie season - while Barber was already a starting tailback in his prime) ... we find that their respective yardage from scrimmage average is closer (Barber: 2036 to Portis: 1765) - a 1.6 point per game advantage to Barber: which is still not negligeable - but that difference is hopefully not what you were leaning on to win your weekly matchup

Let's add the historical fact about declining RBs in their 30s (though Barber did not have many touches prior to the last 4 years) and to think Portis is only 25 (and thus healing very quickly also)...

Adding that, if we look at Saunders way of using his RBs: receptions / not using a goal line specialist (even though one might argue that the featured RB was a better GL ballcarrier)... I'm not convinced that Portis should be downgraded to the 12th spot...

Finally, we all know that every RB is a bad hit away from missing game time (let's remind us that "Everyone in a risk injury")... not preseason / but real FF points game... I'm not so sure I would let Portis go by me and pick Davis or McGahee with the 11th pick... (and I'm not saying you wouldn't pick him there since you slot him 8-15)

I definitely agree that Duckett's presence cuts down on Portis tremendous potential (since we all know that Duckett is an efficient goal line carrier)... but to downgrade him to the 12th spot - I'm not so sure... I respectfully disagree with your thinking (I guess I would be the one ending with Portis if we played together this season :P )
I chose the 2004-2005 seasons for fairly obvious reasons: coincides with the Giants hiring Tom Coughlin, the Eli Manning era, etc. on Barber's side; coincides with Portis in DC.I think it's reasonable to assign those years the most relevance in addition to the fact that they are the most recent. To me, it's irrelevant if Portis is or is not the more talented back or any other factor. It's all about production and opportunity and the systems these players are currently in go back two years in each case.

I have not once touted McGahee ahead of Portis, and I have no idea who Davis is that you have now mentioined not once by twice. Stephen Davis, Kenneth Davis, Mac Davis?

Everyone is a potential injury risk. However, a player with a current injury, specifically one in which recurrences are a strong possibility given the certainty that running backs do get hit in their shoulders every so often, should be a higher injury risk than someone who is currently not injured.

 
Its possible Duckett could be used as Gerald Riggs did back in 91. I think he had like 8-12 TDs that year, while Byner got the majority of the yards and maybe 5-6 TDs IIRC. But I also believe if Portis is playing strong, and feeling pain free, he'll ask for the goal line carries, and he'll get them. People forget just how tough he really is. Watch him block, pass protect, and run. Guy is NOT one to stay down long. While it may not be ideal in the world of FF, i think picking up Duckett was a HUGE get for the Redskins. :)

 
the jerk> you forgot to mention age
You are correct in terms of this thread. However, in another thread on drafting the 4th pick...
Barber has missed only two of his past 128 games and six out of 144 for his career.While I think chronological age does matter, I think workload matters even more.Contrast Barber with James and Tomlinson.Chronological age as of September 2006:Barber 31 yr 5 moJames 28 yr 1 moLT 27 yr 2 moCombined number of regular season rushes and receptions:James 2544 over 96 games (26.50 touches per game)Barber 2417 over 138 games (17.52 touches per game)LT 2044 over 79 games (25.87 touches per game)Another way to look at it is that Barber has only had the punishing workload of a full feature back for the past four seasons:Barber's touches:1997-2001 629 rushes and 284 receptions in 74 games (12.34 touches per game)2002-2005 1260 rushes and 244 receptions in 64 games (23.50 touches per game)Finally, consider that 2005 was Barber's busiest year.In 16 games, 357 rushes and 54 receptions = 411 touches (25.69 touches per game)So even in Barber's busiest single season, he averaged fewer touches per game than both Edge and LT have FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREER.Any player can get hurt, but it's stats like these that suggest Barber is a young 31 (and that Edge is an old 28).
Later I added:
Fantastic posts Jerk. Surely the actual age of Barber plays some role in your analysis, correct? How much weight do you give Barbers 31 year old body in your analysis?And as you noted, Barber is coming off by far the two biggest workload seasons of his career, and he doesn't have the size of the Edge or LT2. Doesn't this entail added risk?
I face a draft next week where I am 99% likely to be forced to choose between S.Jax and Tiki. I keep trying to find reasons to take Jackson, but what more does Barber need to do before you realize that he is a pretty good RB?As I said in my previous post, chronological age does matter. Healing takes a little longer, reflexes very slowly start to diminish, etc. However, it's hard to quantify how much impact this has on the likelihood of injury and lesser performance. Another factor is how well an individual athlete takes care of his body through nutrition, exercise and lifestyle. By all accounts, Tiki is exemplary in all aspects.As far as size is concerned, his comparatively small stature may actually play a role in helping him to avoid more direct hits similar to Barry Sanders. Watching Bettis in Pittsburgh all these years makes it very clear that the bigger back can dish out more punishment, but he also takes more punishment. For comparison, I expect LJ will be hard-pressed to last as long as Tiki if he doesn't adjust his style as he ages.I'm mildly concerned by Barber coming off four consecutive high workload seasons, but my biggest concern is actually that 2005 was almost certainly his career peak. Yet he can drop off 20-25% across the board and likely finish Top 6 again in 2006. Sometimes you can overanalyze this stuff. Every year people try to get the next big thing instead of taking the boring, proven pick. I'm pretty sure there are no points for originality or degree of difficulty in FF. It's usually yards and TDs that matter most.
Adding Portis to the mix...25 years 0 months1399 touches in 60 games (23.32 touches per game)Another way of looking at this is while Tiki is considerably older in terms of chronological age, in the five seasons prior to Portis' arrival in 2002, Tiki only had half the workload (12.34 touches per game) of a "workhorse" running back.Since Portis arrived in the NFL:Portis has 1258 rushes and 141 receptions in 60 games (23.32 touches per game)Barber has 1260 rushes and 244 receptions in 64 games (23.50 touches per game)Which running back played all 64 regular sesaon games from 2002-2005?Old Man BarberWhich running back missed four regular sesaon games?Young Pup Portis(NOTE: All stats taken from FBG's player pages. My spreadsheet calculations could include errors.)As you can tell, I don't mind running the numbers. Yet no amount of research can guarantee anything about any RB. This research makes me feel significantly more comfortable drafting Barber over Portis in 2006 redraft leagues. If you don't think it's relevant, than absolutely go another direction.
 
I have not once touted McGahee ahead of Portis, and I have no idea who Davis is that you have now mentioined not once by twice. Stephen Davis, Kenneth Davis, Mac Davis?
Again - all valid points on your part for your reasoning...The only part I'm still looking at is... if Portis is downgraded to #12... There should be 11 safer picks before him... let's exclude McGahee and Davis (already mentioned)...I can think of:LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexandersecond tier:Barber / Jackson / RJohnson / Jordan / Brownand then maybe (?):Westbrook / Williams / JamesAll of these would have to be sloted above Portis... because I don't think: Parker / Droughns / KJones / JJones / Dunn / Bush can be ranked above Portis... can they?
 
I have not once touted McGahee ahead of Portis, and I have no idea who Davis is that you have now mentioined not once by twice. Stephen Davis, Kenneth Davis, Mac Davis?
Again - all valid points on your part for your reasoning...The only part I'm still looking at is... if Portis is downgraded to #12... There should be 11 safer picks before him... let's exclude McGahee and Davis (already mentioned)...I can think of:LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexandersecond tier:Barber / Jackson / RJohnson / Jordan / Brownand then maybe (?):Westbrook / Williams / JamesAll of these would have to be sloted above Portis... because I don't think: Parker / Droughns / KJones / JJones / Dunn / Bush can be ranked above Portis... can they?
Are you even reading the posts? I know some of them are long, but...Your post #15 put Williams into the top 8 (and put Barber as #10, with which I disagreed).My post #39 put Barber into the top 5 and added James, bringing the total RBs to 10.Continuing in post #39, I stated that you cannot ignore the fact that I gave Portis as a range from 8-15 and an exact slot 12.Using a range is probably the best way to handle this because there remains a lot of questions concerning the status of Portis and the Wash ground game.On the other hand, if you want to bust my chops because I stated Portis was #12 but then the listing of individual players only comes up with ten ahead of him, well then I guess you win.
 
I have not once touted McGahee ahead of Portis, and I have no idea who Davis is that you have now mentioined not once by twice. Stephen Davis, Kenneth Davis, Mac Davis?
Again - all valid points on your part for your reasoning...The only part I'm still looking at is... if Portis is downgraded to #12... There should be 11 safer picks before him... let's exclude McGahee and Davis (already mentioned)...I can think of:LJohnson / Tomlinson / Alexandersecond tier:Barber / Jackson / RJohnson / Jordan / Brownand then maybe (?):Westbrook / Williams / JamesAll of these would have to be sloted above Portis... because I don't think: Parker / Droughns / KJones / JJones / Dunn / Bush can be ranked above Portis... can they?
Are you even reading the posts? I know some of them are long, but...Your post #15 put Williams into the top 8 (and put Barber as #10, with which I disagreed).My post #39 put Barber into the top 5 and added James, bringing the total RBs to 10.Continuing in post #39, I stated that you cannot ignore the fact that I gave Portis as a range from 8-15 and an exact slot 12.Using a range is probably the best way to handle this because there remains a lot of questions concerning the status of Portis and the Wash ground game.On the other hand, if you want to bust my chops because I stated Portis was #12 but then the listing of individual players only comes up with ten ahead of him, well then I guess you win.
And what... you have Portis RB8-RB15... you have Carson Palmer ranked between QB2 and QB17?... Ben Watson in the TE3-TE15 range?... lovely tiering... just go at your drafts with a ESPN June cheatsheet and it will be fine...You mentioned that your 8-15 range is a consequence of Portis status and the Redskins ground game... Hopefully you can draft retroactively in two months when these questions will be answered...There's nothing to add here... you are stating that you can't slot Portis right now - and I was looking forward to knowing why he was out of the first round in your opinion... sorry for asking for your knowledgeable and insightful information... later!
 

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