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The effects of all the strict roughing the passer rules have finally d (1 Viewer)

K

Kyoto Burger

Footballguy
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.

There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.

 
It looked to me like he thought that Young got rid of the ball. Because he looked back behind him, up the field. He wouldn't have done that if he thought he just got a game-ending sack on fourth down.

 
mnesvig said:
It looked to me like he thought that Young got rid of the ball. Because he looked back behind him, up the field. He wouldn't have done that if he thought he just got a game-ending sack on fourth down.
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Well then his fault for not knowing where the ball is. And his fault for letting go before he hears a whistle. Blaming it on the refs is far-fetched.
 
JetsWillWin said:
mnesvig said:
It looked to me like he thought that Young got rid of the ball. Because he looked back behind him, up the field. He wouldn't have done that if he thought he just got a game-ending sack on fourth down.
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Well then his fault for not knowing where the ball is. And his fault for letting go before he hears a whistle. Blaming it on the refs is far-fetched.
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The point is, he has to let go before the whistle. He has to let go as soon as the pass is away.
 
JetsWillWin said:
mnesvig said:
It looked to me like he thought that Young got rid of the ball. Because he looked back behind him, up the field. He wouldn't have done that if he thought he just got a game-ending sack on fourth down.
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Well then his fault for not knowing where the ball is. And his fault for letting go before he hears a whistle. Blaming it on the refs is far-fetched.
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Yes, he made a poor decision. But you have to look at the context. The NFL has created an environment that protects the QB so much that a pass rusher's first instinct isn't to sack the QB. It's to make sure you don't take a killer penalty.
 
Unfortunately, a Giants fan here, so get that out of the way - but when I watched it, the only thing I thought was that kiwanuka looked like he heard a whistle and stopped. Obviously I can't be sure if that is what happened but that is what it looked like at the time.

My first reaction (as a homer, here) is how the stupid f'n rules have stopped players from being football players but Im not sure how much was that or as suggested, another reason.

 
JetsWillWin said:
mnesvig said:
It looked to me like he thought that Young got rid of the ball. Because he looked back behind him, up the field. He wouldn't have done that if he thought he just got a game-ending sack on fourth down.
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Well then his fault for not knowing where the ball is. And his fault for letting go before he hears a whistle. Blaming it on the refs is far-fetched.
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I disagree 100%!!The first thing I thougth of was he let go to avoid the roughing the passer call..............which is a DIRECT result of the way refs have been making this call all season. Right as he went to make the tackle, Young made a pump-fake...........there was no way for Kiwinuka to know whether the ball was thrown or not.Plus, you cannot play to the whistle if the QB has released the ball!!
 
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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I totally agree... was thinking the same thing when I saw the replay. It looked like he released Vince Young prematurely because a 15 yard roughing penalty would have been a back breaker there, and he didn't want to cost the team in that critical a point in the game. Just a bad mistake from a young player. The dude had Young wrapped up. The game was over. But that wasn't nearly as bad as the sorry effort Plaxico made on the Pacman Jones interception earlier in the quarter.
 
Koya said:
My first reaction (as a homer, here) is how the stupid f'n rules have stopped players from being football players but Im not sure how much was that or as suggested, another reason.
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RIGHT ON!! IT'S DAMN FOOTBALL!!! You don't know how many times I say that every freakin week!!Today (Panthers homer here) Peppers was called on a crucial 15 yrd roughing the passer penalty that was totally bogus! What are players with talent like his suppose to do when they are going 100 MPH for the QB....you can't just stop that at the last second!!
 
Also contributing is that it's difficult for a pass rusher to go in with his head up because if his helmet even bumps the QB's he can get called for it. So Kiwanuka went in to hit him in the torso with his head to the side where he couldn't see the pass.

I don't have a huge problem with protecting the QB from unreasonable hits, but I think it's gone a bit too far with the helmet to helmet contact. I think the problem is leading with the helmet, but the refs have sometimes called any contact between helmets even when it wasn't something that would put the QB at risk.

 
Not a Jets fan, but was watching the game when it happened. My reaction was that he had Young for what seemed like a couple of seconds and at that point he just assumed Young passed the ball and didn't want to slam him to the ground and get that penalty on 4th down. You can bet the next time that kid gets a roughing the passer penalty TC won't say #### to him.

 
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
 
I forget which game it was - but this actually happened twice today. Another guy let go of the QB when his forward progress was stopped but the whistle hadn't blown and the QB broke free and made a play. Sorry I can't remember who it was, and I know it didn't have the same kind of key implications that the Giants/Titans one had. But there is a problem where they overly aggressively call the roughing the passer rule, but they don't ever call "in the grasp" - which they should do so that defensive players can play in a fair environment. Protect the QB with the rules - yes, but don't protect him so much that guys stop playing instead of finishing tackles (or call "in the grasp" so they don't have to risk roughing the passer by throwing the QB down).

 
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Koya said:
Unfortunately, a Giants fan here, so get that out of the way - but when I watched it, the only thing I thought was that kiwanuka looked like he heard a whistle and stopped. Obviously I can't be sure if that is what happened but that is what it looked like at the time.My first reaction (as a homer, here) is how the stupid f'n rules have stopped players from being football players but Im not sure how much was that or as suggested, another reason.
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saw the game and my first reaction was exactly the same as yours.. they have to do something to change that rule
 
Righetti said:
Koya said:
Unfortunately, a Giants fan here, so get that out of the way - but when I watched it, the only thing I thought was that kiwanuka looked like he heard a whistle and stopped. Obviously I can't be sure if that is what happened but that is what it looked like at the time.My first reaction (as a homer, here) is how the stupid f'n rules have stopped players from being football players but Im not sure how much was that or as suggested, another reason.
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saw the game and my first reaction was exactly the same as yours.. they have to do something to change that rule
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Glad to see most people agree with me here and it wasnt my homerism. That said, the Giants certainly did not lose that game because of that play, they were an absolute disgrace.But these rules are a disgrace also when a player has a job to tackle and is afraid to do their job, even legitimately.
 
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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This was my first thought too. Bound to happen sooner or later, where a defender is trying to not hurt the QB, and stuff like this happens.
 
I watched the whole game and it is a damn shame that this is what the league and its "QB Rules" has become. :thumbdown:

And, I'm a Jets' fan who couldn't care less about the Giants' winning or losing so my opinion is totally unbiased.

 
It happened last week in the Steelers - Browns game. IIRC, Wimbley had Ben wrapped up and then let go as if he were afraid of getting gigged for the 15 yard penalty.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you... :towelwave: ;)

 
I agree that they have gone too far. Maybe they should just put flags on the QBs hips. That way they can play without ever needing to get dirty.

 
massraider said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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This was my first thought too. Bound to happen sooner or later, where a defender is trying to not hurt the QB, and stuff like this happens.
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i'd like to see Eisen question Mayauck on that one, but it isn't a rules issue - it's a competition committee issue.You know what, it sux that Palmer was hurt on a completely legal play, but this backlash is b.s.
 
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
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?... What if Young had thrown the ball (which is what Kiwanuka appeared to think at the moment)...Suppose the Colts are at their own 5yl... you get a clean shot at Peyton, who just dumped it off to Addai... so you hold on to him, slam him to the ground... you don't hear a whistle since Addai is going for 95 yards and it's going to take a few seconds... so you take Peyton back up and slam him to the ground again? you give him the good old double-nelson, the bear hug, you ride him to the bench and slam his head on it since the whistle still has not blown?...
 
Bengals fans = :cry: after a legal hit.

Trent Green = :loco: after a legal hit.

That is why we are in this situation - it was not this bad last year, and there were beefed up roughing rules.

 
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
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If only it were so easy.A defender is not allowed to drive a QB in the ground - so say Kiwi took Young, wrapped him and tackled him to the ground. At the discretion of the refs, that could be ocnstrued as roughing (it has in other games this season).If a D player thinks they heard a whistle and are about to mash a QB I can understand them not following through (even though you should). It is just something that players have to think about when they should be thinking about that.
 
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
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Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
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As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
Koya said:
A defender is not allowed to drive a QB in the ground - so say Kiwi took Young, wrapped him and tackled him to the ground.
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If Young still had the ball, it would be legal. ANY forcible contact on the QB after the ball is gone = roughing.Here's stu[id for ya - as was shown last week in the Pitt-Cle game, if a QB stops chasing the defender after an intercepted pass, you are not allowed to block him - you can put a hand on him, but if you block him with forcible contact (knock him on his A-- so he can't pursue the intercepting player), it is a roughing penalty.
 
JayMan said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
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?... What if Young had thrown the ball (which is what Kiwanuka appeared to think at the moment)...Suppose the Colts are at their own 5yl... you get a clean shot at Peyton, who just dumped it off to Addai... so you hold on to him, slam him to the ground... you don't hear a whistle since Addai is going for 95 yards and it's going to take a few seconds... so you take Peyton back up and slam him to the ground again? you give him the good old double-nelson, the bear hug, you ride him to the bench and slam his head on it since the whistle still has not blown?...
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The ref will yell "Ball's gone! Ball's gone!" repeatedly when/if the QB lets go of the ball. That's so the defenders know not to slam the QB. And you don't even have to slam the QB down, you just have to not let him go. Kiwi heard neither whislte nor ref, a mental lapse pure and simple. While I agree that many of the QB rules result in bad outcomes and should be changed but blaming this mental error on that is absurd.
 
Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
It sure did in this case! If the QB has the ball, play til the whistle. If the QB throws the ball while he's in the grasp the ref'll let everyone know. He quit on the play early, pure and simple.
 
Heh, I thought about making this exact same thread today..

Agree with the OP.

 
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mad sweeney said:
JayMan said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
?... What if Young had thrown the ball (which is what Kiwanuka appeared to think at the moment)...Suppose the Colts are at their own 5yl... you get a clean shot at Peyton, who just dumped it off to Addai... so you hold on to him, slam him to the ground... you don't hear a whistle since Addai is going for 95 yards and it's going to take a few seconds... so you take Peyton back up and slam him to the ground again? you give him the good old double-nelson, the bear hug, you ride him to the bench and slam his head on it since the whistle still has not blown?...
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The ref will yell "Ball's gone! Ball's gone!" repeatedly when/if the QB lets go of the ball. That's so the defenders know not to slam the QB. And you don't even have to slam the QB down, you just have to not let him go. Kiwi heard neither whislte nor ref, a mental lapse pure and simple. While I agree that many of the QB rules result in bad outcomes and should be changed but blaming this mental error on that is absurd.
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I certainly agree that it was not the wisest play on Kiwi's part - to let Young go... I just think, like many mentioned (and you are doing it also), that it has become difficult for pass rushers (just like guys going to block a punt or defenders going for a tackle when the opponent is near the sideline) to go at full speed with the latest roughing the passers calls... and that should not be in players mind in the heat of the moment...
 
mad sweeney said:
Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.

There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
It sure did in this case! If the QB has the ball, play til the whistle. If the QB throws the ball while he's in the grasp the ref'll let everyone know. He quit on the play early, pure and simple.
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That's the thing. There is NO way a defensive end "quits" when he is RIGHT ABOUT TO GET A SACK. There had to be SOME pressing reason he just let go like that - because the work had been done. That isnt a time a DE quicks.
 
One thing I don't understand, what is the big f'in deal to toss the QB to the ground once the ball is gone?

I don;t think I have EVER seen a QB in the grasp release the ball, get thrown down, and an injury result.

I HAVE seen defenders going hard at a QB and hitting him right when the ball is released and injuring him.

That is the problem, if Young is wrapped up with the ball in his hands, whether or not the ball is gone should not affect whether the defender can throw him to the ground. Mike Mayauck said the DUMBest thing ever - defenders now have to "cradle" the QB to the ground. I understand pulling up, I understand not hitting him in the head, I understand they have to try and avoid hitting the QB hard after the ball is gone, but not that.

He's not a quarterback - he's a toddlerback.

 
Marc Levin said:
Koya said:
A defender is not allowed to drive a QB in the ground - so say Kiwi took Young, wrapped him and tackled him to the ground.
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If Young still had the ball, it would be legal. ANY forcible contact on the QB after the ball is gone = roughing.Here's stu[id for ya - as was shown last week in the Pitt-Cle game, if a QB stops chasing the defender after an intercepted pass, you are not allowed to block him - you can put a hand on him, but if you block him with forcible contact (knock him on his A-- so he can't pursue the intercepting player), it is a roughing penalty.
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I think you should check the rules because I heard clearly on some telecast that you are not allowed to pick up a QB and "slam" him into the ground. But the defination of slam into the ground can vary. They showed one play where there was a flag thrown, and another (where the defender turned to the side or something) and the flag was not thrown :shrug:
 
Koya said:
mad sweeney said:
Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.

There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
It sure did in this case! If the QB has the ball, play til the whistle. If the QB throws the ball while he's in the grasp the ref'll let everyone know. He quit on the play early, pure and simple.
Click to expand...
That's the thing. There is NO way a defensive end "quits" when he is RIGHT ABOUT TO GET A SACK. There had to be SOME pressing reason he just let go like that - because the work had been done. That isnt a time a DE quicks.
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But... he did
 
mad sweeney said:
Koya said:
mad sweeney said:
Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.

There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
It sure did in this case! If the QB has the ball, play til the whistle. If the QB throws the ball while he's in the grasp the ref'll let everyone know. He quit on the play early, pure and simple.
Click to expand...
That's the thing. There is NO way a defensive end "quits" when he is RIGHT ABOUT TO GET A SACK. There had to be SOME pressing reason he just let go like that - because the work had been done. That isnt a time a DE quicks.
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But... he did
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Many of us are contending there was a reason he did what he did. Not "quitting" on the verge of a sack. That is like not stepping on home plate after hitting a homer. Perhaps they asked him about it post game and we can get a little understanding.

 
Koya said:
Marc Levin said:
Koya said:
A defender is not allowed to drive a QB in the ground - so say Kiwi took Young, wrapped him and tackled him to the ground.
Click to expand...
If Young still had the ball, it would be legal. ANY forcible contact on the QB after the ball is gone = roughing.Here's stu[id for ya - as was shown last week in the Pitt-Cle game, if a QB stops chasing the defender after an intercepted pass, you are not allowed to block him - you can put a hand on him, but if you block him with forcible contact (knock him on his A-- so he can't pursue the intercepting player), it is a roughing penalty.
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I think you should check the rules because I heard clearly on some telecast that you are not allowed to pick up a QB and "slam" him into the ground. But the defination of slam into the ground can vary. They showed one play where there was a flag thrown, and another (where the defender turned to the side or something) and the flag was not thrown :shrug:
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:no:If the QB has the ball, you can slam him to the ground - you can not DRIVE YOUR BODY into him while doing so.The rule states (parahrasing, but using the correct terminology) "forcible contact on the QB after the ball is gone is roughing the passer"
 
Quotes from both Kiwanuka and Coughlin:

Not Sweet on Kiwi

By Ken Palmer

Giants Insider

Posted Nov 26, 2006

NASHVILLE – It really is difficult to totally blast rookie DE Mathias Kiwanuka for failing to bring Titans QB Vince Young to the ground late in the fourth quarter. Granted, had Kiwi had his head up, he would have seen that Young still had the ball.

But with all the crazy rules these days designed to protect the QB, Kiwanuka basically said he was scared to bring him down and risk a penalty that would have extended Tennessee’s drive.

“Unfortunately I made a bad decision,” Kiwanuka said. “I thought it would be a 15-yard penalty if I drove him to the ground. I made a mistake that cost us the game.”

“He thought the ball was thrown,” coach Tom Coughlin added. “The ball wasn’t thrown and he’s afraid he’s going to get called.”

As it was, Young took off and gained 19 yards before being brought down, the key play in the Titans’ miraculous comeback – and the Giants’ tremendous choke.

“Thank you for letting me loose,” Young said. “He is a physical guy and I thought he was going to bring me down, but at the same time I’m trying to fight out of it and he just let me go.”

While Kiwanuka had Young and the entire Titans team dead to rights, he was unable to finish the job, just as New York was unable to seal the deal in Nashville.

“It’s a fraction of a second that you have to make a decision,” he said.

 
Koya said:
mad sweeney said:
Koya said:
mad sweeney said:
Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney said:
Kyoto Burger said:
Anyone who saw the Giants game can agree with me, on fourth and ten in the forth quarter with like 3 minutes left the Giant's Mathis Kiwanukahad Vince Young wrapped up but thought he had thrown the ball and didn't want a roughing the passer penalty but he let him go.

There's no doubt Kiwi of the Giants messed up big time by not holding onto Young until he knew exactly what was going on. However, with the way the refs call "roughing the passer" it's upsetting that defensive players have to think twice about leveling a QB.
Click to expand...
Play until you hear the whistle.'Nuff said
Click to expand...
As pointed out by others, this does not apply to pass rushers. You can only tackle a QB with the ball. Once the ball is out of his hands, he is untouchable. The whistle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
It sure did in this case! If the QB has the ball, play til the whistle. If the QB throws the ball while he's in the grasp the ref'll let everyone know. He quit on the play early, pure and simple.
Click to expand...
That's the thing. There is NO way a defensive end "quits" when he is RIGHT ABOUT TO GET A SACK. There had to be SOME pressing reason he just let go like that - because the work had been done. That isnt a time a DE quicks.
Click to expand...
But... he did
Click to expand...
Many of us are contending there was a reason he did what he did. Not "quitting" on the verge of a sack. That is like not stepping on home plate after hitting a homer. Perhaps they asked him about it post game and we can get a little understanding.
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I agree it's extremely odd, but it was not the ref calling the ball's gone and it wasn't the whistle. That means mental error. I'm saying blaming the roughing calls had nothing to do with this. Play until the play is over. He didn't and it's a huge reason why they lost. A poorly coached, undisciplined team with no heart.Edit after reading above article. Yes HE thought the rules were against him on this but that doesn't change my point. He shouldn't have thought that because the QB had the ball. He still made the mental error of quitting on the play BEFORE the ball was out. Neither whistle nor ref stopped him so he shouldn't have stopped.

 
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On the other side of this controversy, however - even though I understand why Kiwanuki pulled up, he should have had his eye on the ball - it's like when you fake throw a ball for a dog - the smart ones know it is still in your hand.

 
Koya said:
mad sweeney said:
\But... he did
Click to expand...
Many of us are contending there was a reason he did what he did. Not "quitting" on the verge of a sack. That is like not stepping on home plate after hitting a homer. Perhaps they asked him about it post game and we can get a little understanding.
Click to expand...
in the post-game interview he took the blame for the loss but said that he thought the ball was out of his hand and didn't want to get a roughing the passer on a 4-10 play which would have continued the drive
 
They need to bring back in the grasp. If a player gets a QB under control for more than a sec, play is over. QBs fake slides, fake going out of bounds, fake throws and if you even touch a QB these days after the throw, its 15 yards for roughing. I hate seeing QBs hurt, but this has gone way too far.

 
King of the Wolfies said:
They need to bring back in the grasp. If a player gets a QB under control for more than a sec, play is over. QBs fake slides, fake going out of bounds, fake throws and if you even touch a QB these days after the throw, its 15 yards for roughing. I hate seeing QBs hurt, but this has gone way too far.
Click to expand...
You're whole argument is moot. The ball was still in his hands. It was the player's ridiculous mental error, not the rules that caused this. That's like a DL not trying to make a tackle as a RB goes by him because he's scared of getting the facemask. It isn't roughing until after the pass. There was no pass so he couldn't get a roughing call. Bad mistake by the player.
 
I think the modern rules protecting the QB's are way overboard.

That said, the fact that a rookie DE let go of a very mobile QB despite the fact that that QB did not pass the ball tells me more about that DE's lack of situational awareness than about the roughing the passer penalty. Kiwanuka blew it. As proof, he didn't need to throw Young to the ground - there was a middle ground, which was to keep him wrapped up until he heard a whistle.

The fact that this incident was so unique underlines that this was a bad play at work in this particular situation, and not a bad rule.

 
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