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Oakland's defense (1 Viewer)

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Silver & Black

Footballguy
Once again, this has been a very tough season as a Raiders fan. I knew Brooks sucked, but tried to stay so optimistic in the offseason because Gallery was going to return to stud status, Jordan was going to have a fantastic season, Moss and Porter would be unstopable stretching the field and the Raiders defense was young, has lots of speed and looked promising.

It all started with the Porter grumblings and all that nonsense. Then, someone waived the swiss cheese wand over the offensive line, culininating in that week 1, nationally televised Sunday night game against the Chargers, which I couldn't even stomach to watch in its entirety.

Anyway, now that my league's fantasy playoffs are about to get under way, I find myself in a wildcard game with Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson going against the very stout Oakland passing defense. Say what you want about how bad Oakland has been in 2006, their passing defense is one of the best in the league.

I just found it ironic that I am fighting for my playoff life with a stud QB and a stud WR going against the Oakland defense that has been excellent stopping everyone's passing attack.

Anybody else faced with a similar situation where you can't bench a stud now that its playoff time but face a tough or brutal match up?

 
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how do WR2s usually fare against Oak? as in... what to expect from TJ Housh this week? is he still a must-start against this D?

for obvious reasons, i haven't spent much time following Oak this year.

 
Asomugha and Washington are excellent corners, Huff is coming around and Schweigert is no pushover either. But I still expect the Bengals to come out firing on all cylinders this game

 
I can't say I'm an authority on Oakland's pass D since I haven't watched them play, but my guess would be is their stats are a little skewed. Teams get up on Oakland and tend to run the ball more.

They have the fewest pass attempts against them (25.4), fewest completions per game (14.9), their passing percentage against is mediocre, the passing yards against is fewest (143.0), their TDs against is low (13), mediocre on sacks (27), and allows the fewest 1st downs (98). Along with having one of the worst offenses in the game, I wonder if this is the reason why on paper, they look so good.

I too have Carson Palmer and wondered about this week. Bengals are rolling and I don't think Oakland's D will slow them down, no matter what the numbers say.

 
benching any bengal against the raiders would be the over-coaching move of the season. This isn't the Bears or Ravens we are talking about here.

 
mizeners said:
I can't say I'm an authority on Oakland's pass D since I haven't watched them play, but my guess would be is their stats are a little skewed. Teams get up on Oakland and tend to run the ball more. They have the fewest pass attempts against them (25.4), fewest completions per game (14.9), their passing percentage against is mediocre, the passing yards against is fewest (143.0), their TDs against is low (13), mediocre on sacks (27), and allows the fewest 1st downs (98). Along with having one of the worst offenses in the game, I wonder if this is the reason why on paper, they look so good.I too have Carson Palmer and wondered about this week. Bengals are rolling and I don't think Oakland's D will slow them down, no matter what the numbers say.
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The Raiders' pass defense is #2 in passing yards per attempt against, and they are in the top 10 in INTs despite being last in the league in passing attempts against. The defense is for real. The run defense isn't bad, either. The most anyone's scored against them in the past 8 weeks has been 23 points; that includes games with San Diego, KC, Seattle, and two games with Denver.
 
mizeners said:
I can't say I'm an authority on Oakland's pass D since I haven't watched them play, but my guess would be is their stats are a little skewed. Teams get up on Oakland and tend to run the ball more.

They have the fewest pass attempts against them (25.4), fewest completions per game (14.9), their passing percentage against is mediocre, the passing yards against is fewest (143.0), their TDs against is low (13), mediocre on sacks (27), and allows the fewest 1st downs (98). Along with having one of the worst offenses in the game, I wonder if this is the reason why on paper, they look so good.

I too have Carson Palmer and wondered about this week. Bengals are rolling and I don't think Oakland's D will slow them down, no matter what the numbers say.
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so you did all this research only to say you plan on ignoring it? i agree that carson and chad are must-starts no matter the opponent, and i'd even say that with TJ too. but they all can't have big games. i'm very much considering benching TJ.
 
CalBear said:
mizeners said:
I can't say I'm an authority on Oakland's pass D since I haven't watched them play, but my guess would be is their stats are a little skewed. Teams get up on Oakland and tend to run the ball more. They have the fewest pass attempts against them (25.4), fewest completions per game (14.9), their passing percentage against is mediocre, the passing yards against is fewest (143.0), their TDs against is low (13), mediocre on sacks (27), and allows the fewest 1st downs (98). Along with having one of the worst offenses in the game, I wonder if this is the reason why on paper, they look so good.I too have Carson Palmer and wondered about this week. Bengals are rolling and I don't think Oakland's D will slow them down, no matter what the numbers say.
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The Raiders' pass defense is #2 in passing yards per attempt against, and they are in the top 10 in INTs despite being last in the league in passing attempts against. The defense is for real. The run defense isn't bad, either. The most anyone's scored against them in the past 8 weeks has been 23 points; that includes games with San Diego, KC, Seattle, and two games with Denver.
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:goodposting: I actually enjoy watching teams try to pass on them because they have been so good. You don't see too much corner play like that anymore.
 
The Oakland pass D is the real deal, but the way the NFL is set up today great passing O trumps great passing D. The offense just has too many advantages. I don't expect the Bengals to put up insane numbers like they have been, but benching TJ, Chad, or Palmer would be unwise.

 
Every time I have seen their defense play this season, I have come away impressed, especially by their pass D. I believe they're for real.

 
God, I hate to say it, but I honestly think the Raiders are a step or two away from being competitive... Meaning: if the quarterback could actually make a three-step drop, they might start winning...

That said, I doubt the Bengals go berserk on the Raiders but can you bench any of their big four?

 
I have a feeling Rudi will carry ALOT of owners into the next round of the playoffs. Dare I say 150yds, 3 TDs

 
shadyridr said:
I have a feeling Rudi will carry ALOT of owners into the next round of the playoffs. Dare I say 150yds, 3 TDs
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Uhmm the Raiders Defense dosent typically give up 3 TDs total, in a game (not including TDs that the offense gives up). So it would be unwise to dare say some 3 TD nonsense from a guy who hasnt produced very many 2 TD games this year.
 
with the corners blanketting CJ and TJ, i wonder what that leaves for chris henry? he might be the sneaky play here....

 
I agree, there is no way that I can bench either Palmer or Chad in this one. I just find it ironic that after suffering through such a horrid season, Oakland's defense may screw me in my playoff matchup.

And I agree, Oakland can be competitive next season. They need to clean out the coaching house, get some real football people to make the important decisions and start the offense over from scratch. I think Oakland's defense is going to be very, very tough next year so even an average offense could show immediate dividends in the W-L column.

 
i too am playing against 85 and Palmer in the 1st round playoffs...Lets just hope that what they say about the teams copycatting gameplans from previous weeks is true...Houston beat Oakland last week with NEGATIVE passing yards!!!

Run Rudi Run!!

 
red said:
with the corners blanketting CJ and TJ, i wonder what that leaves for chris henry? he might be the sneaky play here....
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it's very possible... but if you're in the 1st round of your playoffs i don't know if it's wise to risk getting a 0 like he put up last week... i have Gates as my 3rd WR although i hate the matchup w/ Den and the "top line up" feature puts Henry in there for me... but if your other option is Reggie Williams or something... it's probably a smart play.
 
It seems to me that the statistical success of Oakland's passing defense is largely based on the fact that teams have such an easy time running against Oakland.

 
They have a very young, solid defense. It's impressive.

Howevahhh, the pass defense ranking is VERY misleading. You can run on them with relative ease (132 yards per game at 4.1 per clip), and when the offense is as bad as it is in Oakland, you don't need to pass an awful lot. They're lowest in the NFL in terms of passes against (305), and the only teams who come close are Indy (314) and St. Louis (328). Not even close to being a coincedence, these teams absolutely stink against the run. The next closest, Washington, has 361 passes against (and you can run on them, too; to the tune of 130 per game at 4.2 per clip).

If it's what the Bengals need to do, they will carve Oakland's secondary into pieces. The chances are, they'll do what every other team has done: pass 24-26 times, take what's given to them, accumulate merely 130-150 yards and grind out the clock with Rudi Johnson, resulting in a comfortable win.

 
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marshall88 said:
It seems to me that the statistical success of Oakland's passing defense is largely based on the fact that teams have such an easy time running against Oakland.
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I'm sure teh Raiders are near the bottom of the league in passes attempted against.ETA: Dead last. And 1st in Rushing attempts against, lol.Obviously this says that teams know they can win the battle of field position against Oakland and their pathetic O, so they choose not to pass, not so much because they are "impressive" but because the Offense sucks so bad.
 
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aposulli said:
marshall88 said:
It seems to me that the statistical success of Oakland's passing defense is largely based on the fact that teams have such an easy time running against Oakland.
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I'm sure teh Raiders are near the bottom of the league in passes attempted against.
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They are last in the league in passes attempted against, but they're still top-10 in INTs, and #2 in yards per pass against. The pass defense is real. The run defense isn't bad, either; they're facing the most rushing attempts in the league, but are #16 in yards per rush against and #15 in rushing TDs allowed. Overall their defense is #3 in yards allowed. This is not a statistical illusion.
 
CalBear said:
aposulli said:
marshall88 said:
It seems to me that the statistical success of Oakland's passing defense is largely based on the fact that teams have such an easy time running against Oakland.
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I'm sure teh Raiders are near the bottom of the league in passes attempted against.
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They are last in the league in passes attempted against, but they're still top-10 in INTs, and #2 in yards per pass against. The pass defense is real. The run defense isn't bad, either; they're facing the most rushing attempts in the league, but are #16 in yards per rush against and #15 in rushing TDs allowed. Overall their defense is #3 in yards allowed. This is not a statistical illusion.
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Obviously their Yards against will be low since their opponent's are playign SUPER conservative.But you know the Bengals will be airing it out, regardless...Bengals by 17, easy.Palmer 3 TDs, Rudi 1.
 
The Raiders defense is very good. I wouldn't be expecting big days from anyone on the Bengals. Those 2 CBs are DYNOMITE in particular. I'd expect average to below average days for the Bengals' offensive players. Keep in mind the Bengals probably won't need many points to win either - the Raider offense is horrible - so I think that will also play into a less than stellar day for the Bengals offense.

 
yinzer said:
shadyridr said:
I have a feeling Rudi will carry ALOT of owners into the next round of the playoffs. Dare I say 150yds, 3 TDs
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:banned: :banned: :banned: boy i hope youre right. that would make my day, especially because my opponent has Palmer and 85
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:hifive: Mine too. He also has Housh. I'm hoping for a huge day from Rudi and not much from Carson and crew. It would also help if the Raiders' offense is pathetic, the game is a blowout and the Bengals don't have to throw a pass the second half.
 
red said:
with the corners blanketting CJ and TJ, i wonder what that leaves for chris henry? he might be the sneaky play here....
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That thought has tempted me also. (I may be without Colston?) While I think it's quite possible that Henry scores again, the Bengals are generally much better off mostly relying on the rush this game. Go Rudi! Bengals 24, Raiders 10. Rudi has 100+ and 2 TDs.
 
Interesting stuff -- I was actually thinking about benching Rudi this week because of the improved Raiders D, but this thread has straightened me out. Oakland has done a decent job limiting RBs at home (they did very well vs. Denver 4 weeks ago) but has been really bad vs. the run on the road.

 
Silver & Black said:
I agree, there is no way that I can bench either Palmer or Chad in this one. I just find it ironic that after suffering through such a horrid season, Oakland's defense may screw me in my playoff matchup.
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Yeah, but can you say the same thing if you have Romo sitting on your bench as well :eek:
 
i think people are overlooking a very real counteracting force here. people forget that the Cin pass defense may be the WORST in the league, and that Oak may actually be able to put some points on the board. having said that, i still may bench TJ because i think you're silly if you think Cin will use a theory contrary to one that has worked for literally every team playing Oak so far this year, and that is to run first, and to pass only enough to keep the D honest.

i think Carson and crew come up with 75% or so of average production. which is still better than most people's alternatives (i said above i'm leaning towards benching TJ, for Colston/Henderson). not sure where everyone gets the idea that the Cin passing game will "carve up" a defense that has yet to be "carved up" much at all this season.

 
Raiders offense can't score either, so opponents aren't forced to throw to play catch-up..... That being said, I agree w/ what seems to be the consensus: the Raiders pass D is extremely tough, regardless of surrounding circumstances; their pass rush also forces bad throws. I have Palmer, and do not expect a big day from him. Cincy will pound the rock w/ Rudi this week.

 
baronson said:
i think people are overlooking a very real counteracting force here. people forget that the Cin pass defense may be the WORST in the league, and that Oak may actually be able to put some points on the board. having said that, i still may bench TJ because i think you're silly if you think Cin will use a theory contrary to one that has worked for literally every team playing Oak so far this year, and that is to run first, and to pass only enough to keep the D honest.

i think Carson and crew come up with 75% or so of average production. which is still better than most people's alternatives (i said above i'm leaning towards benching TJ, for Colston/Henderson). not sure where everyone gets the idea that the Cin passing game will "carve up" a defense that has yet to be "carved up" much at all this season.
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The Cinci D has picked it up lately. They have allowed just one score in their past two games against the Browns and the Ravens. ETA: I still gave the Raiders a generous 2 scores in my prediction. Furthermore your use of the word everyone does not apply to what I had posted. The only Bengal I touted as having a good day was Rudi.

 
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baronson said:
how do WR2s usually fare against Oak? as in... what to expect from TJ Housh this week? is he still a must-start against this D?for obvious reasons, i haven't spent much time following Oak this year.
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OAK DEF vs. Types of Receivers:WR1 = ranked 4WR2 = ranked 27WR3 = ranked 12TE = ranked 14RB = ranked 29As most posters have already stated, Rudi should be the showcase in this game. That being said, if I were going to place a wager on who gets a Carson Palmer TD pass.....I'd put my money on Housh.
 
red said:
with the corners blanketting CJ and TJ, i wonder what that leaves for chris henry? he might be the sneaky play here....
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As a Henry owner I'd love to agree, but how is this week any different from any other week? Last week Henry had zero catches. This week they face another good pass D. What makes you think Henry's chances for success are any better. I'd love to start him with confidence, but his goose egg cost me the division last week.
 
the_sig said:
baronson said:
how do WR2s usually fare against Oak? as in... what to expect from TJ Housh this week? is he still a must-start against this D?for obvious reasons, i haven't spent much time following Oak this year.
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OAK DEF vs. Types of Receivers:WR1 = ranked 4WR2 = ranked 27WR3 = ranked 12TE = ranked 14RB = ranked 29As most posters have already stated, Rudi should be the showcase in this game. That being said, if I were going to place a wager on who gets a Carson Palmer TD pass.....I'd put my money on Housh.
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good info. not sure where you derived it from, but if this is accurate, it adds a lot of value. thanks.
 
baronson said:
the_sig said:
baronson said:
how do WR2s usually fare against Oak? as in... what to expect from TJ Housh this week? is he still a must-start against this D?

for obvious reasons, i haven't spent much time following Oak this year.
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OAK DEF vs. Types of Receivers:WR1 = ranked 4

WR2 = ranked 27

WR3 = ranked 12

TE = ranked 14

RB = ranked 29

As most posters have already stated, Rudi should be the showcase in this game. That being said, if I were going to place a wager on who gets a Carson Palmer TD pass.....I'd put my money on Housh.
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good info. not sure where you derived it from, but if this is accurate, it adds a lot of value. thanks.
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http://www.footballoutsider.com/stats/teamdef.php <----scroll down the page a bit.
 
Was wondering about this matchup as this game is going to make or break my playoffs.

Opponent has: Palmer, Rudi Johnson, AND Chad Johnson (and barely made the playoffs too)

I have: TJ Housh

Let's just say I'm hoping for a FG game.

 
aposulli said:
Obviously their Yards against will be low since their opponent's are playign SUPER conservative.But you know the Bengals will be airing it out, regardless...
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Why will the Bengals be doing anything different than anyone else has?
 
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I didn't really want to make this a "who should I start" discussion, apologies to anyone who thinks this should be in the Asst. Coach forum.

I wanted some input on how good the Raiders pass D really is. And how wary I should be of starting Cincy players against them. I haven't really followed them much, I figured that their NFL #1 pass D ranking was because teams just ran them over. But I found that they aren't bottom of the barrel in the rush D either. And no matter how I look at passing defensive stats, Oakland is always at or near the top. I just don't know the team and the players on that team at all. I just looked at their roster and I only recognize a few names and don't know much about them.

Is the Oakland pass defense really good enough to warrant benching Palmer, Housh, and/or Ocho Cinco (all legit FF studs)? How does Cincy stack up against them, and what might Housh and the Chad expect to see from the secondary? Except for last week, Cincy has just cranked out in the passing game. Of course receiver-wise that has been mainly to Ocho Cinco, but last week was Housh's game to star (much to my relief as I have Housh and won by 2 points in what ended up as a "play-in" game for the playoffs).

Yes, the Raiders pass D has been hot the last few weeks, but against KC it would seem that LJ just ran them over, and then it was LT, and then a dismal performance by the Texas passing attack who actually netted negative overall yards, that will certainly help a team's defensive stats.

Any thoughts and especially some details on this matchup would be appreciated.

 
I have Housh and I usually like him MORE when Cincy is playing a good pass D. Good pass Ds are able to contain Chad, forcing Palmer to look for Housh more often. I think Housh will have another good week. I'm expecting around 100 yards and a score. Of course, that is IF HE PLAYS!! From what I've heard, he has yet to practice this week.

Now, as for Palmer and Johnson, I'm expecting good games but not huge games. I think Chad will be held to around 80 yards and Palmer is probably looking at 200 yards and 1 or 2 scores.

 
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CalBear said:
aposulli said:
Obviously their Yards against will be low since their opponent's are playign SUPER conservative.

But you know the Bengals will be airing it out, regardless...
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Why will the Bengals be doing anything different than anyone else has?
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CIN *may* be the best passing team in the NFL.And, if you look at the schedule below, they will be the best passing team OAK has faced this year... in fact, they may be the ONLY respectable passing team OAK will face.

While I agree that CIN will probably teak their game plan to add a heavier dose of running, they can't completely abandon their bread&butter.

Consider that OAK is the 25th ranked run defense and they're last in the nfl in total offense.

The fact is that while this team MAY have a couple of bright spots, they are not by any means capable in all three phases of the game and that hurts them considerably.

Oakland's defensive efficiency is 30th in the league... they've let up 3,309 yards and 242 points which comes out to 13.67 yards per point allowed (YPPA).

This shows us that OAK's opponents don't have to do a whole lot of work to score points; OAK's opponents need very little yardage before they're on the score board)

Only GB (13.06) and SF (12.82) have a lower YPPA.

(and fyi, CHI [21.45], NE [21.31], and DEN [20.24] are top three... these teams make you work for you points)

and after looking at OAK's schedule, they haven't exactly faced "The Greatets Show on Turf" every week.

SD - River's 1st game

@BAL - McNair played fine, but BAL's offense is shaky

bye

CLE - another weak offense, Frye still had 3tds

@SF - another mediocre offense, A Smith had 3tds

@DEN - at this point, DEN was both the greatest defense AND the worst offense in the history of the NFL

ARZ - Leinart's 3rd career start, no Larry Fitzgerald

PIT - Roethlisburger and the Steelers were awful for a few weeks here

@SEA - no M Hasselbeck, no S Alexander

DEN - Jake Plummer is bad because he's Jake Plummer, not because he's playing Da' Raidahs.

@KC - Trent Green's 1st game back from "I'm Batman"

@SD - all Ladanian, all day (including an LT td pass)

HOU - it's Houston! it's David Carr! they're just not that good

 
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Oakland is good at keeping the ball away from the other team's offense.

See, when Raiders let the other team's defense score, they kick-off to Oakland offense again, and so on.

 
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Well, they do apply pressure and the coverages are pretty good, so I do think they are legit. But the bigger issue is whether Cincy will NEED to throw at all. Oakland's offense alone will score the Bengals 14 points, and Rudy should have a field day (I'm playing against him and deathly afraid of this matchup - just hoping that other RB's get in on the action because it's a blowout early).

I wouldn't predict big days for the Bengal passing game..

 
Oakland is the best in the NFL as far as passing yards per game (157). The league average is 220 and only the Bears, Colts and Saints are also below 200 yards per game. They are also the leader in fewest TDs allowed to WR with 5 (through 13 weeks).

The Raiders are not the worst against the run - probably bottom seven at 133 yards per game (average is 115).

 
Even if Oakland's DEF is that good, Cinci's offense is clicking on all cylinders right now. I wouldn't hesitate to start any of the regulars. I'm even tempted to start Henry over Isaac Bruce this week.

 
The best game this season against the Raiders D was by Alex Smith, who scored 20.3 FPs. Roethlisberger, Wallace, Frye and Plummer all scored between 15-20 FPs, and McNair scored 11.1. Six of the twelve opponents -- including the last three -- scored fewer than ten FPs.

Arnaz Battle (19.7 PPR, 15.7 0PPR) had the best receiving game against them. Only nine receivers went over 10 points this year, in PPR scoring. In 0PPR, only three receivers in addition to Battle went over 10 (Walker, Walker, Branch), and Bryant Johnson's 87 yards is the most Oakland's allowed to any one receiver this year.

A quick glance of the Oakland opponents doesn't reveal anyone of Johnson's caliber (or arguably TJ's caliber), but it was a quick glance. I'd probably stay away from starting CJ if I had a good backup.

 
That's one of the best whistling in the dark/revisionist history posts I've ever seen.Have you actually WATCHED the Raiders defense play?In actually seeing them in action, they are a quality unit, I don't think there's much question about it at this point. Sure their offense puts them in bad positions, but you can't plan on that all the time.
 
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