*** New England Patriot Offseason (2007) *** (1 Viewer)

Other Patriot Discussion Threads to check out:

Where do the Pats WR corps rank now?,

What Happens to the Pats Passing Totals?, With all their offseason moves . . .

Donte Stallworth, Prodution up or down or nil with MOss trade

New England 16-0 in 2007?, This off season just got scary. Who can stop them?

Tom Brady's Fantasy Ranking, Is he a lock for top 5 now?

New England WR's - Who gets cut?, How many will they keep?

Patriots deal 3rd rounder to Oakland

Are Brady's excuses gone?, Team signing premier WR talent...

Kelley Washington, Agress to terms with New England

"Patriot Way" running out of steam?

Stallworth to the Patriots

Pats sign Stallworth (Contract Offer), Front page NFL.com (Title now changed to Contract Offer)

Banta_Cain to the 49ers?

Pats to sign Wes Welker to offer sheet, Per espn.com

Pats talking with Stallworth...

Pats agree to terms with OLB Adalius Thomas

Patriots Interested in Randy Moss

Sammy Morris to Pats

Daniel Graham will make someone a nice TE, I doubt NE signs him

Graham Signs with Denver

Kyle Brady signs with the Patriots, expensive deal for a strictly blocking TE

Corey Dillon, released........

So... what is Dillon's situation now?, He going to remain a Pat?

Laurence Maroney, How good will he be really?

Borges suspended, coldhardfootballfacts

Lance Briggs.....shhhhhh, New England ?

I know the Patriots are still in the playoffs right now, but it is never too early to speculate what will go on next year.

With Seattle being knocked out by Chicago, the Seahawks have earned the 24th pick in the first round of the draft, according to the NFL. This pick goes to the Patriots as compensation for the Deion Branch Deal.

NFLDraft Countdown was listing the top three needs of every team. Here are the needs listed for the Patriots:

1. Wide Receiver: They have suffered some massive losses at the position in recent years and they could really use a top-flight talent.

2. Defensive Back: Rodney Harrison can't stay healthy at safety, Asante Samuel will be a free agent and there is no depth at corner.

3. Linebacker: Age, injuries and free agency have caught up with the team here and they really need to start planning for the future.

In looking at WR, I don't think Chad Jackson played up to expectation, but I think a lot of that had to do with injuries. Gaffney and Caldwell turned out ok, but I could see the Pats attempting to strenghen the WR corp in the offseason.

Free Agency: 2007 Patriot Free Agency

I think Graham, Banta-Cain, and Samuel stand out as personel the Patriots will need to address first.

Management Moves:

Good news earlier in the season was that Scott Pioli turned down interviewing with the Giants to stay with the New England Patriots. Pioli has done a great job in overseeing the draft, free agency, and managing the salary cap for the Patriots.

Salary Cap:

Speaking of the cap, here is a good link to check out the Patriot financial situation: Patriot Future Cap Hits

The Pats are in great shape.

As far as the draft, I think the list of needs are pretty on the money but not necessarily in that order.

I would expect some combination of the following players to come to the Pats in the 1st round:

CB

Marcus McCauley - Fresno State

Fred Bennett - South Carolina

Darrelle Revis - Pitt

Safety

Michael Griffin - Texas

Reggie Nelson - Fla

WR

Sydney Rice - South Carolina

Dwayne Bowe - LSU

As far as the salary cap

- Dillon might be in some trouble but $4 million isnt going to kill them

- Harrison could be at the end

- Patriots are stealing from Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork and to an extent Ben Watson. They are getting bargains on these 3 for another 3 years.

- the OLine is in GREAT shape for the next 3 years.

If it's a money issue with Graham vs Watson.

I'd rather lose Watson then Graham. I'm sick of seeing passes at Watson's feet. I don't care how many drops stats websites say he has, he has more. Watching, his goofs seem to wreck the continuity the teams building on a drive.

I wouldn't doubt he could fetch a nice pick in return and...

I might be wrong but it seems like the Pats always fail with first round WRs. I'd rather anything else in the first then.

There were several good LBers in this last draft(06) and I'm a bit jealous the Pats didn't draft one and have that need. I sure hope they do this year.

Re-sign Seau, geesh was he way better than I expected at his age.

Need a young RB as Faulk and Dillon aren't. Sapp left so there's no future backup laying around. UFA or late round guy to go on PS would be fine with me.

Re-sign Samuel and lately I've been feeling OK about the secondary. I was upset with them earlier in the year but they've been alright and are generally young. Maybe they're more OK than most seem to think? The Colts will surely test em' so we'll see. Most rookie DBs get burned and I don't have much patience for that.

Contradictory but, if there's a top level CB that would be a gigantic addition if they re-sign Samuel. Two excellent cover corners with BB's blitz schemes would make the opposing QB so nervous.

Coaches-

Jeff Davidson was fired after being the OC for 8 games with Braylon's BS and no runningback worth a darn and Derek Anderson starting. I don't want him to bump anyone but ....

Coates did well with Winslow Jr and Heiden, crazy that they canned him.

Can they find a spot for him?

Keep Pepper, Parcells is looking for a DC. When he coached LBers they were awesome. He coaches DL and they're excellent. Keep him.

Jets have Gash and Richie Anderson as RB coach. Gash is my favorite FB all time so steal him from Mangini just to do it.

Worried about Mangini stealing coaches.

Pat, I think MARCUS MCCAULEY could be a player of interest. I looked at a few mocks, and the trend was the Patriots looking in the area of CB (with the 24th pick from Seattle). I think the last few years we have thought the Patriots would go that way, and it never seems like it happens LOL. Here is to 2007

Some info on CB Marcus McCauley:

Height: 6-1 | Weight: 205 | 40-Time: 4.35

Strengths:

Has prototypical size...Timed speed is outstanding...Athletic and quick with fluid hips and a great burst...Physical and aggressive...A playmaker with pretty good ball skills...Has great body control, leaping ability and timing...Good tackler who will support versus the run...Has superb instincts for the game...A hard worker with good intangibles...Is able to play and excel in either man or zone coverage.

Weaknesses:

His technique and footwork can be inconsistent...Will gamble and take too many risks...Hands are questionable and he will drop some interceptions...Needs to get a little stronger...Was not really thrown at a lot in college...Has trouble locating the ball...Struggled mightily at times in 2006 and didn't have a great senior year.

Notes:

A better prospect than Richard Marshall (a 2nd round pick) was a year ago and he had a great rookie season for the Carolina Panthers...Really has all of the physical tools you look for in a top cornerback and should be able to step in and start very early on...The type of lockdown corner that every team is constantly searching for.

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He does seem like the type of player the Patriots would need and go after. Although it does look like WR could be a good option as well, after last years draft I don't think they will need to. I think they will look for WRs in the FA market.

nerangers said:

Pat, I think MARCUS MCCAULEY could be a player of interest. I looked at a few mocks, and the trend was the Patriots looking in the area of CB (with the 24th pick from Seattle). I think the last few years we have thought the Patriots would go that way, and it never seems like it happens LOL. Here is to 2007

Some info on CB Marcus McCauley:

Height: 6-1 | Weight: 205 | 40-Time: 4.35

Strengths:

Has prototypical size...Timed speed is outstanding...Athletic and quick with fluid hips and a great burst...Physical and aggressive...A playmaker with pretty good ball skills...Has great body control, leaping ability and timing...Good tackler who will support versus the run...Has superb instincts for the game...A hard worker with good intangibles...Is able to play and excel in either man or zone coverage.

Weaknesses:

His technique and footwork can be inconsistent...Will gamble and take too many risks...Hands are questionable and he will drop some interceptions...Needs to get a little stronger...Was not really thrown at a lot in college...Has trouble locating the ball...Struggled mightily at times in 2006 and didn't have a great senior year.

Notes:

A better prospect than Richard Marshall (a 2nd round pick) was a year ago and he had a great rookie season for the Carolina Panthers...Really has all of the physical tools you look for in a top cornerback and should be able to step in and start very early on...The type of lockdown corner that every team is constantly searching for.

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He does seem like the type of player the Patriots would need and go after. Although it does look like WR could be a good option as well, after last years draft I don't think they will need to. I think they will look for WRs in the FA market.

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I like a draft of Marcus McCauley and Sydney Rice.I also wouldnt mind Patrick Willis ILB but think he goes before the Pats. At first I liked Paul Pozluzny but he is only 235 lbs. Pats like their ILB more around the 250 range.

They are not going to draft McCauley. No way. People like they Fresno State connection, but ignore that he has badmouthed the coah and got moved to nickel near the end of the year. He has regressed.

Ok, since it is the morning after the AFC Championship game loss, I definitely think the Patriots need to upgrade the WRs (tired of seeing Caldwell drop key passes). They also need to gain a little more speed on defense. It was a heartbreaker game to watch, but as Organizations go, both organizations are not going away or rolling over with the personnel they both have. The Pats need to be better prepared for facing the Colts in the AFC, as well as the Chargers. They can handle most teams with the personnel they have, but the Pats always look sluggish to me when facing a team like the Colts. They do not have the zip they had in previous years. It was a good run by the Patriots, but it is officially time to look at next year and correct the ship. Like to see a lot more out of Maroney and Jackson next year too. Asante Samuel looks great...get him signed!

An IMPACT pass rusher is badly needed. That makes a big difference against QBs like Manning who get rid of the ball(and accurately) at the last second.....They've got money and 1st rd. picks,..no excuse.

Looks to me like the focus is to get one of the two playoff byes. Although, going 12-4 and only getting the #4 seed was pretty rough.

I'm not sure what will happen with Samuel. I'm pretty sure they'll use the franchise tag if they have to. I don't expect cap space to be an issue next season, so I would be in favor of that.

Graham is as good as gone - from what I hear it sounds like he wants to go to a team where he can play more and receive more. It's a shame because he is our best tight end - Watson just hasn't put it together and quite frankly I'm not holding my breath. Thomas might be or best TE receiving-wise next season. At least Watson, like Graham, is an excellent blocker.

They need some kind of playmaker at WR. It doesn't have to be a "WR1", but someone who can stretch the field a little. I know it's Tom Brady, but at the start of the drive last night at the end of the game, I couldn't help think who the hell can go deep on this drive? True Caldwell did it last week, but he wasn't exactly lighting it up last night. I don't think they would draft another WR, I just think they should do more of what they're doing - bring in some veterans and coach them up.

I think the top needs are DBs and LBs. I'm not going to be more specific than that because they could use a player at ANY DB position (depending on Samual for CBs) and ANY LB position (since we can move Vrable inside). I'd prefer an ILB so that we can keep Colvin and Vrable on the edges.

And this needs to be said - Bruschi is now an average linebacker. I can't remember the last time I've seen him make a big play or lay a big hit on someone. He's simply just another player at this point. If the Patriots can get an upgrade over him, I think they should. I think the defensive line is one of the best units in the league and doesn't need any significant updgrades this off-season - although I thought Seymour was getting OWN3D one a lot of plays last night.

I don't even think Bruschi is even average anymore. My bet is that he retires this offseason. ILB is a huge concern as as Safety. I think you can live without Dan Graham but I'm beginning to realize that Asante needs to be re-signed or franchised.

I'd like to see the Pats pick up a big WR who can jump. The one thing the Pats have not had in this run is a guy who can win the one-on-one jump ball passes that keep a defense honest.

LB needs youth and more talent. It is the core of BB defense and too long in the tooth. I agree with JWW that Bruschi has lost a step and an half. too depressed to type more...

My_Favorite_Team_is said:

LB needs youth and more talent. It is the core of BB defense and too long in the tooth. I agree with JWW that Bruschi has lost a step and an half. too depressed to type more...

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Driving in today, EEI is reporting that Bruschi has said he will consider retirement this off-season.I think it's probably a good idea - he's not the same player he once was and let's be honest - what else does the guy have left to prove? He's got the rings, he's got the money, and he came back to play 2 years after having a freaking stroke. He can have any job in MA that he wants, maybe a spot on the 5th quarter or something - he's an articulate and intelligent guy. He's got a young family, two daughters I believe.Walk away healthy my man - you've got nothing left to prove.

I looked for a post earlier, but didn't find one. Thans nerangers.

************

WROffensively, they were jelling. Caldwell? Is he going to freeze up like that in big situations? I think they have to ask themselves that? Bring him back again, but man. Gaffney. Get him under contract for 2-3 years. Jackson has to hit the mini's healthy and stay that way. Maybe a full off season of action will help. Troy will be back. Kelvin Kight as the fifth? Maybe a FA run? Or late flier? I think Troy Brown can still play. If he retires, I think he coaches. He's not the most physically gifted guy, so his football mind has to be top notch. I think he'll make a great coach.

TE's. All set here. Keep Watson away from Caldwell. They don't need to know each other. That behavior can be contagious. Sick potential, but he just never seems to take the next step, and he has a lot of drops. too. Sign Graham, and they're set here. ** I'm not opposed to trading Watson and keeping Graham. That's a big loss to see him go. Dude blocks like a lineman, and can go down field when he has to. He's not as athletic as Watson, but he does catch the majority of balls in his direction.

RB-all set. Pass will be back All set. Dillon and Faulk getting older, but with Maroney here, they're good for a bit more. I'd like to see Cobbs back on the PS. Didn't Pittsburgh release him? I liked the potential, but not the potential to fumble.

OL, QB-NO worries at all. Great unit, great depth, though a QB 3 that wasn't in high school with the coach would be nice.

ON the whole O side of the ball, really WR is the only overt concern, and that's not too much of a concern. Get a playmaker if they can. But, my concern is defense.

****

D-Line. Alway look for depth to develop. Somebody mentioned Seymour getting owned. I think he twisted an ankle early, and it hurt him.

LB. It's almost getting to desperation time here. Losing Seau really hurt here. Alexander showed potential., but pass coverage was ugly. Bruschi looks like he might be done, or move to a Seau role. It was great to Banta-Cain finally on the field, though he still needs to improve. This is where I expect us to be active in the first round, if there's value, and FAgency. It's the biggest need. I honestly would be surprised to see 2 LB's taken in the 1st round. I think the need is that dire. But then you have to teach them the system. I think they have to trade Watson somewhere, even package him w/ something, and try to get an LB. I'd agree w/ Bruschi being done. He just didn't seem to play w/ the passion he used to have. If it's the concern over the ticker, I understand. He just never seemed right this year, at any point. Not horrible, but not Tedy. Maybe age has caught up?

DB's. Vitamins? Is that what they need?

I think the injuries in the secondary were the biggest factor. WE were essentially on the 4th string safety in yesterdays game. That hurts. The run of bad luck there has to stop. Geno comes back, as does Harrison, TBuck, Gay, Scott. I think they lock up Samuel. It's really a great unit, that most people didn't see, because of injuries. Hobbs and Sanders are good looking youg players.

Yesterday, once Hawkins went down, the Colts had their way with us. To be fair, that was a 4th string safety in there at that point. I think our secondary is good, and deep, just injury prone, and I think it's mostly bad luck. Losing Samuel cannot happen. He's crucial. But, put Harrison and Wilson and Gay out there with Samuel yesterday, and they're in the SB. Then those guys we saw, along w/ TBuck are backups. That's a solid unit. A darn fine unit with quality depth. That said, I expect a nice 6' CB draftee.

Kicker? Gostkowski looks great. Punter. Miller or Sauerbrun. Both can get the job done. BUt, have you ever seen guns on a punter like Sauerbrun has? Do you risk a punter like that, and a suspension? I don't know.

****************

Bottom line, another great season, and probably the best playoff game I remember watching. Didn't care a lot for the outcome, but a great game none the less. The team was ravaged by injuries again, lost their top two receivers from last year, and still was just a play or two away from the SB. I'm not happy, but I'm not too uppset. You can't go out on topp every year. Let's hope the coaching ranks aren't ravaged also, and let the building begin.

You guys need to find yourselves a Donald Driver for Brady to throw to. Of course Reche came back to bite the Chargers, but you can't depend on that guy as a starter, he's just not that good.

You guys need depth in your defensive front 7 - it was obvious you could wear out the defense over the course of a game and there was a drop off. I saw it happen on numerous occasions this season.

Jury is still out on your DBs, there were just too many of them hurt over the course of the season to see what they've really got as a unit there. Big hit if you lose Samuel.

Gr00vus said:

You guys need to find yourselves a Donald Driver for Brady to throw to. Of course Reche came back to bite the Chargers, but you can't depend on that guy as a starter, he's just not that good.

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Reche is fine IMO. He's not a #1 WR but I've converted from a "why did they sign that guy" type to actually liking the guy. It's not fair to blame him so much for a game in which alot of Pats played poorly. The Pats blow off countless Watson drops, it seems hypocritical to get on Caldwell so much for the same thing in one game. Several weeks I felt like he and Faulk(and sparingly Brown) were the only ones catching the ball.I am hoping Kevin Curtis' looming free agency forces the Rams to entertain offers for Bruce. I'd be thrilled if the Pats signed either of them.

PMENFAN said:

I looked for a post earlier, but didn't find one. Thans nerangers. ************WROffensively, they were jelling. Caldwell? Is he going to freeze up like that in big situations? I think they have to ask themselves that? Bring him back again, but man. Gaffney. Get him under contract for 2-3 years. Jackson has to hit the mini's healthy and stay that way. Maybe a full off season of action will help. Troy will be back. Kelvin Kight as the fifth? Maybe a FA run? Or late flier? I think Troy Brown can still play. If he retires, I think he coaches. He's not the most physically gifted guy, so his football mind has to be top notch. I think he'll make a great coach.

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I liked Childress too. He looked good in preseason and the little he was active. It'd be cool if he paned out. He's got some spunk to him.

Hi guys...Riess has a nice piece on the Free Agent Situation in New England. Reiss' Pieces Free Agency

I still think Banta-Cain, Samuel, and Graham (who I like better than Watson) need to be top concerns. I hope they find a place for Brown since I want him to retire as a Patriot. I think he has one more good year left. I think Heath Evans and Larry Izzo also make it back into the mix. Seau suprised me this year...too bad he got hurt. If he wants back in 2007, I think the Pats make room for him

Free agents

With the Patriots turning their attention to the offseason, here is a snapshot look at the 14 players scheduled for unrestricted free agency:

Tully Banta-Cain -- Outside linebacker has appeared in 55 career games with five starts. Entering his fifth season in 2007. Was bumped out of starting lineup in AFC Championship game.

Troy Brown -- Wide receiver, who turns 36 in July, just conluded his 14th season. His 43 catches were his most since making 97 catches in 2002.

Don Davis -- Veteran linebacker and core special teams contributor wants to see how his knee responds to surgery before deciding on whether to return.

Heath Evans -- Fullback became a vital contributor on offense and special teams. He expressed his desire to return, saying: "Fit-wise, it couldn’t be more perfect. I could care less about money. I’m a loyalist. They were good to me at a time the game of football wasn’t."

Barry Gardner -- Veteran linebacker broke his leg in the team's final preseason game and missed the year on injured reserve.

Daniel Graham -- Tight end just finished his fifth season and is a vital cog in the offense. Considered one of the NFL's most devastating blockers at the position.

Larry Izzo -- Special teams captain ended the 2006 season with a burst, showing he still has explosion after 11 NFL seasons in which he's missed just one game.

Ray Mickens -- Nickel cornerback, who just finished his 11th season, was signed as a free agent on Dec. 4.

Patrick Pass -- Seventh-year running back played in only three games this season due to injury.

Asante Samuel -- Cornerback is coming off his best season and is scheduled to hit free agency at a prime time. He's just 26 years old and entering his fifth season.

Todd Sauerbrun -- Punter was without a team until the Patriots signed him Dec. 22, and his strong performance ensures he'll have a job somewhere in 2007.

Junior Seau -- Veteran linebacker, who just turned 38, has stated he'd like to play in 2007. He played in 11 games this season before breaking his right arm.

Vinny Testaverde -- Veteran quarterback, who was signed Nov. 14, just concluded his 20th season.

Ken Walter -- Punter, who played in four games for the team, was out of football in 2005. His return in 2006 could put himself in position to vie for a job somewhere in 2007.

JetsWillWin said:

My_Favorite_Team_is said:

LB needs youth and more talent. It is the core of BB defense and too long in the tooth. I agree with JWW that Bruschi has lost a step and an half. too depressed to type more...

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Driving in today, EEI is reporting that Bruschi has said he will consider retirement this off-season.I think it's probably a good idea - he's not the same player he once was and let's be honest - what else does the guy have left to prove? He's got the rings, he's got the money, and he came back to play 2 years after having a freaking stroke. He can have any job in MA that he wants, maybe a spot on the 5th quarter or something - he's an articulate and intelligent guy. He's got a young family, two daughters I believe.Walk away healthy my man - you've got nothing left to prove.

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Didn't Brady say (yesterday?) on EEI that "no way" Bruschi's retiring?

I'm not sure I agree that Banta-Cain is a guy they need to sign, especially if he's looking for starter money...to my eye he's a backup/special teams guy, not an every week starter...I'd rather see a rookie or a young free agent in the lineup...

cobalt_27 said:

Didn't Brady say (yesterday?) on EEI that "no way" Bruschi's retiring?

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I didn't see anything about it.

Mike Reiss of The Boston Globe reports on 33-year-old linebacker Tedy Bruschi. After concluding his 11th season, he was asked if he thinks about seeing the finish line of his career. "You can't play forever," he said. "That's what all of us do at the end of every year -- you take inventory and see how you're feeling. Right now, my plan is to reflect on this year."

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I think he only has one more year left on his contract, so I think he will play out one more year. Bruschi always seems the type that would honor his contract, so I don't see him leaving. It is always tough when you were that close to going back to the big game. I am sure that has to do more with him reflecting on what he wants to do. I would hate to lose his leadership...I think he has lost a step though in his game.Code - you could be right about Banta-Cain. I just though he was finally jelling. I do know the reason he did not play as much in the AFC game was based on his speed. If the price tag is too much for him, you know the Pats wont pay.

rocket1012 said:

An IMPACT pass rusher is badly needed. That makes a big difference against QBs like Manning who get rid of the ball(and accurately) at the last second.....They've got money and 1st rd. picks,..no excuse.

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Unless the team shifts to a 4-3 (unlikely in my book), then who would you bench on the DL . . . Seymour? Wilfork? Warren? Maybe they can get a LB that can blitz, but I don't see them taking any DL help early if at all this draft.

Would the Pats place the Franchise Tag on Asante Samuel? It would cost them about 8 Million to do so. From the Articles on boston.com, it does not sound like Samuel's is interested in giving the Pats the home town discount. I think he is talented and should be retained...I just know the Pats are tough negotiators though.

Patriots | Samuel likely seeking big-money deal

Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:42 -0800

Karen Guregian, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel, who is set to become an unrestricted free agent this offseason, will likely need to be lured by a big contract offer in order to remain with the team. "He's excited about the opportunity he has. He loves New England. But New England has to love him too," Samuel's agent, Alonzo Shavers said. "At this point right now, he's waited his turn for them to show that affection and that admiration. If they choose not to, well, obviously, we've had a good run there, and we'll set up camp in another location." Should the team place the franchise tag on Samuel, it will likely cost between $7.5 to $8 million.

nerangers said:

Would the Pats place the Franchise Tag on Asante Samuel? It would cost them about 8 Million to do so. From the Articles on boston.com, it does not sound like Samuel's is interested in giving the Pats the home town discount. I think he is talented and should be retained...I just know the Pats are tough negotiators though.

Patriots | Samuel likely seeking big-money deal

Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:42 -0800

Karen Guregian, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel, who is set to become an unrestricted free agent this offseason, will likely need to be lured by a big contract offer in order to remain with the team. "He's excited about the opportunity he has. He loves New England. But New England has to love him too," Samuel's agent, Alonzo Shavers said. "At this point right now, he's waited his turn for them to show that affection and that admiration. If they choose not to, well, obviously, we've had a good run there, and we'll set up camp in another location." Should the team place the franchise tag on Samuel, it will likely cost between $7.5 to $8 million.

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Given that Samuel apparently has a tattoo that says GET PAID and that he's called the Patriots' initial offer insulting and not even worth talking about, yes, I think he is looking for a boatload of money.The Pats are certainly getting the label of being cheap, and it's starting to resonate through players still on the team. Beyond Samuel, Graham has mentioned that he will give the team one chance to offer him what he's worth or he's gone. Colvin has insisted that he will not renegotiate and there will not be a hometown discount.

And clearly many other guys have left over money (Branch, Vinatieri, Givens, etc.) and players on other teams have shied away (Mason, Keyshawn Johnson not wanting to play for five bucks, etc.).

NE needs to put some damage control and put a positive P.R. spin on some of these things or there will be even more problems now and down the road. The Pats are rumored to be $30 million under the cap . . . but so will many other teams. They have shown that they would rather let other teams pay more than they would, and at what point does that leave a team with lots of money under the cap but a lot fewer first or second tier players?

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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Vrabel?

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Wahington, who was a monster while he here.

rabidfireweasel said:

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Washington, who was a monster while he here.

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My point was that premium players have not come to town BY CHOICE. Washington was great . . . for a single season . . . and left. Dillon has been solid . . . but was acquired by trade.Clearly more notable players have LEFT the team than have JOINED it (Woody, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Branch, Law, Givens, etc.).Certainly we can't knock the team too much because they have been successful. But I suspect that the players the Pats might wish to spend their bounty of cap money on will get better offers from other teams.Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).Coaching and game planning can only go so far, and the 05 and 06 teams illustrated that. The 03 and 04 teams showed what a bevy of talent and great coaching can do.So IMO the Pats need to get more talented or they may be in the same situation as last year and this year once the playoffs role around.

David Yudkin said:

rabidfireweasel said:

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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Mostly bargain basement useful players- although Vrabel has been exceptional. Phifer, Izzo (special teams), Patten had moments. They traded for Washington, who was a monster while he here.

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My point was that premium players have not come to town BY CHOICE. Washington was great . . . for a single season . . . and left. Dillon has been solid . . . but was acquired by trade.Clearly more notable players have LEFT the team than have JOINED it (Woody, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Branch, Law, Givens, etc.).

Certainly we can't knock the team too much because they have been successful. But I suspect that the players the Pats might wish to spend their bounty of cap money on will get better offers from other teams.

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

Coaching and game planning an only go so far, and the 05 and 06 teams illustrated that. The 03 and 04 teams showed what a bevy of talent and great coaching can do.

So IMO the Pats need to get more talented or they may be in the same situation as last year and this year once the playoffs role around.

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To me, when you make it to the AFC Championship, you had a pretty damn good season.The Patriots were a 3rd and 4 from going to the SB - so if they convert that, are you still coming here today saying "They need more talent like in 2004"?

JetsWillWin said:

To me, when you make it to the AFC Championship, you had a pretty damn good season.The Patriots were a 3rd and 4 from going to the SB - so if they convert that, are you still coming here today saying "They need more talent like in 2004"?

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I don't think that there is any doubt that the 03 & 04 teams > 05 & 06 teams.And if we are going to play the "let's-change-one-play" game to swing outcomes of games, if Troy Brown doesn't force a fumble against SD then they are not in the AFCC to begin with.As I already mentioned, there's only so far you can knock a team that went 12-4, but I can't see one area where the 2006 Patriots were stronger than in 2003 or 2004.QB? Brady played well given the situation (losing his top two WR), but his stats were not as good.RB? Certainly the ground game was not as strong as Dillon averaging 100+ yards per game and their inability to run the ball consistently cost them this year.WR? Not even close.OL? They played well, but they were not blowing people off the ball and Brady was under duress in many games this year.Secondary? Certainly nothing they had this year could touch the healthy 03 Law and Harrison combo.LB? Certainly this year's crop was weaker than one with a pre-stroke Bruschi, Johnson, and McGinnest in the mix.DL? Seymour did not seem to be a dominant force this year, but overall Wilfork and Warren did very well.PK? Gostkowski fared pretty well, but I'm pretty sure most people would rather see Adam V line up for a late game kick.SPECIAL TEAMS? They had some decent returns, but many times they gave up some poor field position.IMO, I don't think there is a single area where the team has improved in talent vs the back to back 14 win seasons. Clearly the secondary at the end of the 04 season was a mess and Hobbs and Samuel are upgrades compared to the end of the year patchwork quilt, but IMO a healthy 04 secondary would have been better than a banged up 06 secondary (not exactly a fair comparison, I know).EDIT TO ADD: I forgot TE in my rundown, and that is an area where the team probably held an edge over the other title winning teams.

David Yudkin said:

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

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I agree that this is a key part of the debate, but I think you've oversimplified it...Pre-2006 the Patriots were spending the cap, every year...the small amount of room they were leaving it was explained was for in-season pickups and practice squad promotions...which seems realistic...what was different was that they weren't putting all their cash into a handful of "elite players"...so, I've surmised in the past, if they are spending the whole cap but don't have as many top end salaries that must mean they have comparatively better mid and bottom tier salaries...otherwise they wouldn't be spending the cap...this seems like a conscious budgetary decision and given the rate of injury in the NFL seems like a sound business move...from a PR perspective it has been ugly since the elite players get the pub and the Patriots haven't structured their budget to accommodate those kind of players...but the mid and lower tier players might well see this as the place to be...Let me make a fantasy football analogy...consider an auction fantasy league...some owners will opt to lock up a majority of their cash in 2 or 3 elite players, other teams will opt to target mid-tier players with upside...certainly every team hopes to get a player that will outperform his cost, but looking further to balance, depth, and protection from injury, there is a solid argument for the team who spends their limited resources on a variety of mid tier guys rather than placing one or two big bets on "studs"...particularly if, in NFL terms, you have a coach who can "coach 'em up"...As for the 2006 "under the cap" Patriots I honestly chalk last year up to circumstance...they were reserving cap space for Branch, he held out and was traded...by the time he was gone there weren't any players left for them to spend that money on...I fully expect the '07 Pats to be back up to the cap in spending...

There WRs actually aren't horrible as Gaffney seems to gel in Brady's passing scheme. And aside from drops in AFC title game Caldwell has really been solid.

They need to get either A. Thomas or L. Briggs in Free agency and maybe make a run at Nate Clements at corner. Then Need to Franchise Samuel.

I think Bruschi and Harrison can be solid for 1 more year -- But they really need to draft a 1st round saftey and find a Middle LB in the draft.

Defensive fron is maybe the NFL's greatest IMO and their O line is is on eoif the greatest in pass protection. TE is maybe the deepest in NFL..

If the Patriots add a great corner and a great pass rushing OLB they IMO are again the favorites in the AFC..

David Yudkin said:

JetsWillWin said:

To me, when you make it to the AFC Championship, you had a pretty damn good season.The Patriots were a 3rd and 4 from going to the SB - so if they convert that, are you still coming here today saying "They need more talent like in 2004"?

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I don't think that there is any doubt that the 03 & 04 teams > 05 & 06 teams.And if we are going to play the "let's-change-one-play" game to swing outcomes of games, if Troy Brown doesn't force a fumble against SD then they are not in the AFCC to begin with.As I already mentioned, there's only so far you can knock a team that went 12-4, but I can't see one area where the 2006 Patriots were stronger than in 2003 or 2004.

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I never said the 2006 Patriots were better than 2003 or 2004. Those teams, in my opinion, were dominant.What I am saying is that to suddenly call into question the entire Patriot personal philosophy because they lost the AFC Championship game is going way overboard. You asked this:

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

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The latter part is the Patriot system. To rehaul that because they lost the AFC Championship game is way overkill. When you make it to the AFC Championship game, from a personnel standpoint, I don't know how you can say they had a bad season. I wasn't playing the "change one play game" - I was merely stating that the Patriots roster was good enough to get to one play away from the Super Bowl. They easily could've. They didn't. It happens.Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

JetsWillWin said:

David Yudkin said:

JetsWillWin said:

To me, when you make it to the AFC Championship, you had a pretty damn good season.The Patriots were a 3rd and 4 from going to the SB - so if they convert that, are you still coming here today saying "They need more talent like in 2004"?

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I don't think that there is any doubt that the 03 & 04 teams > 05 & 06 teams.And if we are going to play the "let's-change-one-play" game to swing outcomes of games, if Troy Brown doesn't force a fumble against SD then they are not in the AFCC to begin with.As I already mentioned, there's only so far you can knock a team that went 12-4, but I can't see one area where the 2006 Patriots were stronger than in 2003 or 2004.

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I never said the 2006 Patriots were better than 2003 or 2004. Those teams, in my opinion, were dominant.What I am saying is that to suddenly call into question the entire Patriot personal philosophy because they lost the AFC Championship game is going way overboard. You asked this:

Which gets us to the question, which is better. Having some marquee players that might cost a million dollars a year more than you are prepared to pay, or more role players or middle of the road players with less talent (see this year's WR corps as an example).

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The latter part is the Patriot system. To rehaul that because they lost the AFC Championship game is way overkill. When you make it to the AFC Championship game, from a personnel standpoint, I don't know how you can say they had a bad season. I wasn't playing the "change one play game" - I was merely stating that the Patriots roster was good enough to get to one play away from the Super Bowl. They easily could've. They didn't. It happens.Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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I'm certainly not suggesting that the Pats 06 season was a failure. Nor am I suggesting that any outcome other than a SB title equals a bad season. However, IMO some of the Pats weaknesses led to their demise (and to why they are not still playing) including:- Lack of a big play WR that can go deep- Lack of Brady having a true go to or clutch WR- Inability to run the ball consistently- Lack of depth at LB- At times, lesser talent amoung backups or limited depth in the secondary- Mistakes at in opportune times (mostly stupid penalties)- Giving up too many long TDThis year in particular, I felt the team had more weaknesses than in season's past.My commentary as a whole is to look at the big picture . . . what are the best options to win a title in any given season. These were some of the reasons why they didn't win. I could easily do this for 30 other teams and while that may seem overly critical, that doesn't mean a team had a bad year.Getting back to the Pats, we could debate whether or not they would or would not have won the SB if they had kept some of the players that left. Obviously that was a claculated decision by the management and one that certainly considers seasons beyond this one. I do not disagree with building a team and a system that can sustain many years of competitiveness, but IMO this year's team probably (and we'll never know) could have won this year had they kept a couple of the guys that left town or brought in one or two other players and spent more to the cap.I also understand that 28 other teams would kill to get to where the Patriots got this year, so everything is relative. I pretty much pegged the Pats season from before the season even started with one notable exception. I had them at 12-4 and winning the AFC East and their home playoff game. But from there I had them losing on the road, which came very close to happening.The 06 Pats as constituted could have won it all but really needed a lot of things to break there way to win 4 postseason games when by all accounts there were other teams that in my opinion (and probably others as well) were more talented. We all know that talent alone is niot the end all of factors, and I think the Pats this year went about as far as they could.As for cap management, I do agree that it does not take bonafide superstars to win. But this year the Pats did not stock up on elite players, nor did they really stock up on second or midgrade players. Instead, they seemed to shop at the clearance rack for people like Caldwell, Gaffney, and some defensive parts. While that may have worked out in some areas, it clealry did not work out all the time in all areas.If other players weren't available, that may have been because the team misjudged the free agent market. IMO, there was so much extra money for teams to spend that what the Pats may have calculated as the market rate was actually too low. Many players signed for way more than expected but that was because there was so much money available with the new cap number. I suspect that this offseason there again may be a feeding frenzy with wquite a few teams slated to be way under the cap. Who that leaves as available talent will be interesting to monitor and who the Pats sign will again be something to follow.

The Moz said:

There WRs actually aren't horrible as Gaffney seems to gel in Brady's passing scheme. And aside from drops in AFC title game Caldwell has really been solid.They need to get either A. Thomas or L. Briggs in Free agency and maybe make a run at Nate Clements at corner. Then Need to Franchise Samuel. I think Bruschi and Harrison can be solid for 1 more year -- But they really need to draft a 1st round saftey and find a Middle LB in the draft. Defensive fron is maybe the NFL's greatest IMO and their O line is is on eoif the greatest in pass protection. TE is maybe the deepest in NFL.. If the Patriots add a great corner and a great pass rushing OLB they IMO are again the favorites in the AFC..

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While I am sure that many of those moves would be great, I must look at the team and think that they are going to pursue a much different path. Adalius and Lance are going to be exceptionally pricey which means that the money spent on one of them would mean way less to "restock the shelves". No doubt that either on of these guys would improve the LB corps significantly talentwise, but you need to examine the players under contract and on the team with regards how a FA would fit into the system. K.Mitchell on the Chiefs may be a player that fits into the system or June from Indy... but both may be pricey

I think the Pats got caught napping a bit in the past offseason due in large part to the labor deal. The market changed virtually overnight once the cap was raised pretty dramatically, and the Pats hadn't planned on it properly.

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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I think you're gonna when you read Rodney Harrison I was extremely happy with Andruzzi's play when he was a Patriot. He was with the Pack or Seahawks before the Patriots IIRC.I like Izzo and Evans for doing what they do well, not marquee talents though.Very surprised and happy with Seau's play this past year.There are alot of "OK" players we could name.

Bri said:

David Yudkin said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison, since Belichick arrived, who have the Patriots signed as free agents of any real consequence? The only other player of note that I remember was Antowain Smith.

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I think you're gonna when you read Rodney Harrison I was extremely happy with Andruzzi's play when he was a Patriot. He was with the Pack or Seahawks before the Patriots IIRC.I like Izzo and Evans for doing what they do well, not marquee talents though.Very surprised and happy with Seau's play this past year.There are alot of "OK" players we could name.

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I included Harrison with Colvin as marquee guys, so not sure why I need the wall.On reflecting, the Pats did do a decent job of getting lesser known players that did way better as Patriots. Maybe they will continue to have luck with plucking guys out of thin air, but the last couple of years it seems like they've gone after the Starks, Browns, and Davises of the world.

David Yudkin said:

Bri said:

Other than Colvin and Harrison,

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I think you're gonna when you read Rodney Harrison

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sorry bout that

David Yudkin said:

rocket1012 said:

An IMPACT pass rusher is badly needed. That makes a big difference against QBs like Manning who get rid of the ball(and accurately) at the last second.....They've got money and 1st rd. picks,..no excuse.

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Unless the team shifts to a 4-3 (unlikely in my book), then who would you bench on the DL . . . Seymour? Wilfork? Warren? Maybe they can get a LB that can blitz, but I don't see them taking any DL help early if at all this draft.

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They have impact pass rushers in Banta-Cain (who I believe will re-sign based on comments from Belichick in his last (coffee with the coach) interview on WEEI that I listened to yesterday, and Colvin. Colvin is a deal I believe they need to redo this year, as I believe that's up next year. Keep him. He's getting healthy, and better all the time. He also spent a lot of time on the sideline in the AFCC. I think the flu was far more widespread than they let on, because guys you'd not expect on the sideline were. No way do they abandon the 3-4. Their 3 are too good to go away from it. Bring the LB's. But, if they shifted to a 4-3, I think Seymour and Warren could both be outstanding passrushers. That's just not the scheme they play. Hold their ground against the rush first. Get upfield second.

JetsWillWin said:

Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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Because he wanted !!!!And because they would not spend that money he ended up elsewhere, forcing his way out if you like.

Branch is the posterchild for the downside of the Patriot philosophy

msommer said:

JetsWillWin said:

Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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Because he wanted !!!!And because they would not spend that money he ended up elsewhere, forcing his way out if you like.

Branch is the posterchild for the downside of the Patriot philosophy

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The philosophy obviously works,one player didn't buy into it,

and now he's gone.

The BB / SP philosophy places team goals

above individual needs.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them address LB first in the draft. That's a departure from past practices, but they may be in position to get one of the realy good ones (Pozluzny - PSU) in a not-so-deep LB draft. I doubt they spend another high pick on WR, but there are a good many that stand to go in the first, and with two picks, it may be tempting. They're better off using the two picks on LB/DB or even LB/LB.

PMENFAN said:

Colvin is a deal I believe they need to redo this year, as I believe that's up next year. Keep him. He's getting healthy, and better all the time. He also spent a lot of time on the sideline in the AFCC. I think the flu was far more widespread than they let on, because guys you'd not expect on the sideline were.

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Colvin is signed through 2008 with base salaries of $4.6 and $5.5 million.As I referenced earlier, Colvin has a bit of a frosty stance on his contract and has indicated he's in it for the money and he will not redo his contract if it involves him taking less money than he would be making if he didn't renegotiate.I don't know what the cap hit is for him, but I believe he is one of the highest on the team. Given his posturing to date, I'm not sure if there is a lot they'll be able to do with his contract unless they give him a lot of bonus money and really extend him long term.I found it interesting today that in a couple of different articles in the Herald that the writers feel that Dillon will be done with New England due to his high cap number. Given that he's renegotiated at least twice before, I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to do so again.

Ron_Mexico said:

msommer said:

JetsWillWin said:

Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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Because he wanted !!!!And because they would not spend that money he ended up elsewhere, forcing his way out if you like.

Branch is the posterchild for the downside of the Patriot philosophy

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The philosophy obviously works,one player didn't buy into it,

and now he's gone.

The BB / SP philosophy places team goals

above individual needs.

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I was never one for poetic licence with facts (it has hardly been only one)

Hi guys...Riess has a nice piece on the Free Agent Situation in New England. Reiss' Pieces Free Agency

I still think Banta-Cain, Samuel, and Graham (who I like better than Watson) need to be top concerns. I hope they find a place for Brown since I want him to retire as a Patriot. I think he has one more good year left. I think Heath Evans and Larry Izzo also make it back into the mix. Seau suprised me this year...too bad he got hurt. If he wants back in 2007, I think the Pats make room for him

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Free agents

With the Patriots turning their attention to the offseason, here is a snapshot look at the 14 players scheduled for unrestricted free agency:

Tully Banta-Cain -- Outside linebacker has appeared in 55 career games with five starts. Entering his fifth season in 2007. Was bumped out of starting lineup in AFC Championship game.

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He's finally developed. They virtually have to resign him don't they? He's been a project for years, and finally they're getting something out of him. As I said above, I heard something from BB, and I think he's a resignee. I'm probably wrong, but I think he'll be back at OLB.

Troy Brown -- Wide receiver, who turns 36 in July, just conluded his 14th season. His 43 catches were his most since making 97 catches in 2002.

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One of my favorite players of all time. Just a gamer. I think he can still play. Even if he's done playing, I think he coaches. Again, just a hunch. A rarity in today's game, a player who plays for one team. He should go to the hall of fame just for that!!. So many crucial plays through the years, and no accolades. Never whines. Just everything I admire about a ball player.

Don Davis -- Veteran linebacker and core special teams contributor wants to see how his knee responds to surgery before deciding on whether to return.

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I'm up in the air here. Veteran, yes. But, how many guys can they keep on the roster for special teams? I keep thinking at some point he's going to crack the lineup, and he never does. Scary. Does Pierre Woods fll his role? Younger and cheaper. It's a business. Nothing against the team, and he's a solid special teamer, but you've eventually got to contribute on the D too.

Heath Evans -- Fullback became a vital contributor on offense and special teams. He expressed his desire to return, saying: "Fit-wise, it couldn’t be more perfect. I could care less about money. I’m a loyalist. They were good to me at a time the game of football wasn’t."

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If it comes to Pass or Evans, I think I take Evans. This is two years in a row that Pass has been banged up. Can he stay healthy? Even when healthy, Evans is a better FB, as good with the hands. I really like the Evans pickup. I joked about it last year, picking him up selling tickets outside the Miami Stadium when we needed a back, but I like his heart. He's no superstar, but a very gritty type of player. Keep him, and bring back Patrick Cobbs to camp. I think he's still out there, because Pittsburgh cut him, IIRC.

Barry Gardner -- Veteran linebacker broke his leg in the team's final preseason game and missed the year on injured reserve.

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He was going to see some Plating time this year. Supposedly knows the system. I defer to bill on this one. I haven't seen the guy enough to know what he brings.

Daniel Graham -- Tight end just finished his fifth season and is a vital cog in the offense. Considered one of the NFL's most devastating blockers at the position.

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I love the athleticism Ben Watson brings, but I swear,... at times it's like he turns into Manute Bol out there when it's time to catch the ball. He did look good in the AFCC, but can you let Graham walk? Thomas does look good, and you can't sign everybody. I think they should sign Graham, at market value, and trade WAtson. He's got value, and get him out of the conference, because if you don't you know he'll develop. Thomas looked good when I saw him. Graham is too good all around to let go. Watson is too iffy to let Graham go, even if he is the Graham Gracker. (picked that name up from somebody here, and I think it's hilarious.) That reason may be why they let him walk though. He plays through a lot of injuries. Is he a RFA? Would we get compensation? The injury potential may outweigh the risk. Just something to weigh into the discussion.

Larry Izzo -- Special teams captain ended the 2006 season with a burst, showing he still has explosion after 11 NFL seasons in which he's missed just one game.

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This is one special teams specialist you can afford to have. He continually makes plays. He's worth about $2 million a year. I think he starys.

Ray Mickens -- Nickel cornerback, who just finished his 11th season, was signed as a free agent on Dec. 4.

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With everybody coming back, I don't think there's room. I think they see the value in Samuel and sign him, giving us Samuel and Hobbs on the corners, Gay, Chad Scott, or a draftee. Then Harrison, Wilson, Sanders and Hawkins as the safeties. I just don't see Mickens staying. We've also got Mel Mitchell on IR and a few other young DB's that we don't know a lot about. At least I don't.

Patrick Pass -- Seventh-year running back played in only three games this season due to injury.

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Quite an injury history. Never a huge playmaker when healthy. See what they pick up in the draft, but my money says that Pass gets a lowball offer, and even if he signs he's battling for a job.

Asante Samuel -- Cornerback is coming off his best season and is scheduled to hit free agency at a prime time. He's just 26 years old and entering his fifth season.

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Asante looks like a very good young corner. But, you never know if it's the system, or the player. The system consistently puts players in position to make plays. Is he that good, or is he only slightly better than the rest of them on the squad. Is he worth $7.5 mllion per for about 4 years, because that's what I think he'll garner. Probably $12mm of that up front. Has he peaked? I think with the cap increase, we can afford it. But, we've also got other big time players that are more significant, and harder to replace with scheme, namely the front 3, to take care of in the near future.

Todd Sauerbrun -- Punter was without a team until the Patriots signed him Dec. 22, and his strong performance ensures he'll have a job somewhere in 2007.

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I can't endorse keeping him on the team. Yes, he booms the ball, but the steroid thing has me worried. Can we risk having him suspended in the middle of the season for the season, and having to find a replacement? Great player, probably a great value. Risk management says no way. Josh Miller is a better investment, even at 37.

Junior Seau -- Veteran linebacker, who just turned 38, has stated he'd like to play in 2007. He played in 11 games this season before breaking his right arm.

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If he'll play for $1.5 million, bring him back in the same role. He was excelling. He's not going to give you 50 plays, but with him and Bruschi both getting long in the tooth, I think they make a nice rotation at MLB. The counter argument is that you can use that roster slot to be developing a kid like Eric Alexander.

Vinny Testaverde -- Veteran quarterback, who was signed Nov. 14, just concluded his 20th season.

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You draft another young QB and begin to develop them. Matt Cassell will not stay. People have seen him play, and he's got starter potential in the NFL. He will not stay after his rookie contract, which is I believe 2 more years.

Ken Walter -- Punter, who played in four games for the team, was out of football in 2005. His return in 2006 could put himself in position to vie for a job somewhere in 2007.

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He's horrible.

msommer said:

JetsWillWin said:

Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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Because he wanted !!!!And because they would not spend that money he ended up elsewhere, forcing his way out if you like.

Branch is the posterchild for the downside of the Patriot philosophy

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Say he's the poster child. They got to the AFC Championship, and 5 points from the SB. If he's the posterchild, I'd say there are 28 teams that want some of them posters. You can criticize the philosophy all you want, but the bottom line is that it works. Even with a major wrench such as this thrown in, they still darn near made the Superbowl. I'd call that a system that's working. They refuse to sacrifice long term success for short term gain. Common business practice. Check Dan Snyder in Washington and see how his short term gambles are doing his long term success in. You have to spend wisely.

Ron_Mexico said:

msommer said:

JetsWillWin said:

Also - using the WR's as an example of the Patriot philosophy is flawed - the Patriots did not plan to be without Deion Branch this season. He forced his way out of town. Given the Patriots handling of the matter can certainly be criticized, but what's relevant here is that the Patriots did not PLAN as part of their "system" to go into the season with Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, and Troy Brown. They expected to have Branch there. Given what we saw of Caldwell this season, I feel pretty comfortable saying that Branch & Caldwell would've been at least equal to and probably better than Branch & Givens.

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Because he wanted !!!!And because they would not spend that money he ended up elsewhere, forcing his way out if you like.

Branch is the posterchild for the downside of the Patriot philosophy

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The philosophy obviously works,one player didn't buy into it,

and now he's gone.

The BB / SP philosophy places team goals

above individual needs.

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Hopefully it makes it difficult for NE to sign FAs they covet by having a reputation as being cheap.

Mr. Pink said:

It wouldn't surprise me to see them address LB first in the draft. That's a departure from past practices, but they may be in position to get one of the realy good ones (Pozluzny - PSU) in a not-so-deep LB draft. I doubt they spend another high pick on WR, but there are a good many that stand to go in the first, and with two picks, it may be tempting. They're better off using the two picks on LB/DB or even LB/LB.

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I'm in Penn State country so I think Pozluzny is great but he lists out at 235 and the Pats like their ILB's to be 250-260.

David Yudkin said:

Colvin is signed through 2008 with base salaries of $4.6 and $5.5 million.

I don't know what the cap hit is for him, but I believe he is one of the highest on the team.

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He was the third highest cap impact in 2006...not sure where he stands for 2007...

JohnnyU said:

Hopefully it makes it difficult for NE to sign FAs they covet by having a reputation as being cheap.

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As I mentioned aboved, I am hoping Curtis' FA forces the Rams to have to choose one of either he or Bruce. Someone tell Pioli I'm already pencilling in Bruce for 07. TIA