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Is Kurt Warner a HOFer? (1 Viewer)

Is Kurt Warner a HOFer?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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David Yudkin

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Assume that Warner does very little else from here on out and stays as a backup and then retires. I've debated this one with several people lately and wanted a more global opinion.

HIGHLIGHTS:

- Poster Boy for "rags to riches" story and one for the ages. Can easily see his story as a future Disney movie.

- All-time leader in yards per attempt (8.21).

- All-time leader in completion percentage (65.6).

- Third highest all-time passer rating (93.8) behind only Steve Young and Peyton Manning.

- Two-time League MVP and one-time Super Bowl MVP.

- Teamed with Trent Green to set single season team passing record (5,232 yards in 2000).

- Second most passing yards in a season (4,830).

- Fourth most passing TD in a season (41).

- Most and second most yards passing in a Super Bowl.

LOWLIGHTS:

- While he went "rags to riches" he also went "riches to rags."

- Only played in 80 games.

- Lost starting job in STL, NYG, and ARI.

- A zillion fumbles/interceptions in recent years.

- Hasn't done much since 2001.

- Only played in two full seasons.

- Only three seasons with over 3,000 passing yards or 20 TD passes.

- Not in the All-Time Top 50 in any other major passing category.

Remember, it's the Hall of FAME, and not just the Hall of CAREER STATISTICS. Has Warner done enough to get in?

 
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tell me you're fishing.

If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.

 
I think a decent argument could be made looking at purely his statistics, but the downfall of Warner will be what Bulger and Green did in St. Louis without him, and what Warner did in NY and Ari without his StL supporting cast.

Looking at pure statistics, and using them as a perfect proxy for ability, I think he's got a legitimate argument for being one of the best. His three year stretch from 1999-2001 was as good as it gets. I looked at the best four year stretch in NFL history based on QB statistics above the league average, and Warner's 1998-2001 ranks as the fourth best of all time, behind the 1991-1994 Steve Young, 1992-1995 Steve Young, and 2002-2005 Peyton Manning. The incredible part, of course, is that Warner didn't even play in 1998. He was so far ahead of everyone else in the league, statistically, in those years that he beats nearly every four year stretch ever.

I think under certain circumstances, that could be enough to get a guy into the HOF. But Warner would have needed to have won that second Super Bowl, Green and Bulger would have needed to do poorly in St. Louis, and Warner would have had to have played at least a little better after leaving Missouri.

 
I don't think any player with only 3 great years could ever get in, nor deserves to. But I will say his 3 years are as good as I've seen, especially coming out of nowhere like he did. While that makes great storybook stuff, it doesn't make a Hall of Famer.

 
Warner's case is similar to that of Davis in that they both had a short burst of true brilliance and also played in systems that allowed others to achieve comparable stats after they were gone. Where they differ is...I dont know.

I say no way to Warner And Davis.

 
Huge Rams fan and even I can't say yes. When you only have a three year run and like stated before hand, you are easily replaced, it makes a hard case for you. I will however say in his defense if there was a hall of fame for three year stretches he would be in my top 5 of all time at the helm.

 
I'll agree Warner's situation is similar to Davis, but personally, I think it is more important for a QB to show excellence over a period of time than it is for a RB. RB's careers are inherantly short. Guys like Davis, and Sayers flamed out early due to injuries, but I don't think their greatness can be debated. I don't think that should eliminate a guy from contention off the bat.

For a QB though, I think it is different. QBs can go through injuries and come back and continue to play. I think if a QB's career is ruined by injury, especially in this day with medicine where it is, it should could against him. Warner's career was just too short to join the hall of fame. His entrance would surely make it, if it already is not, the hall of very good.

 
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
 
Chase Stuart said:
I think a decent argument could be made looking at purely his statistics, but the downfall of Warner will be what Bulger and Green did in St. Louis without him, and what Warner did in NY and Ari without his StL supporting cast.

Looking at pure statistics, and using them as a perfect proxy for ability, I think he's got a legitimate argument for being one of the best. His three year stretch from 1999-2001 was as good as it gets. I looked at the best four year stretch in NFL history based on QB statistics above the league average, and Warner's 1998-2001 ranks as the fourth best of all time, behind the 1991-1994 Steve Young, 1992-1995 Steve Young, and 2002-2005 Peyton Manning. The incredible part, of course, is that Warner didn't even play in 1998. He was so far ahead of everyone else in the league, statistically, in those years that he beats nearly every four year stretch ever.

I think under certain circumstances, that could be enough to get a guy into the HOF. But Warner would have needed to have won that second Super Bowl, Green and Bulger would have needed to do poorly in St. Louis, and Warner would have had to have played at least a little better after leaving Missouri.
Click to expand...
Love Warner, not only as a football player but as an outstanding person. Saw all the games he played here but belleive he will have a hard time getting in the HOF. But 2 NFl MVP's & 1 Super Bowel MVP could go a long way.If I recall; Green came in from the Redskins to take over for Pretty Tony Banks and did not play a regular season game after Rodney Harrison, than with SD, hit him low (illegal hit) in the 3rd ex-game and Trent was out for the year

Football or sports in general could use more guys like Warner. :popcorn:

 
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
While this is almost entirely good posting, Young's 92-94 down?
 
Bull Dozier said:
I'll agree Warner's situation is similar to Davis, but personally, I think it is more important for a QB to show excellence over a period of time than it is for a RB. RB's careers are inherantly short. Guys like Davis, and Sayers flamed out early due to injuries, but I don't think their greatness can be debated. I don't think that should eliminate a guy from contention off the bat.For a QB though, I think it is different. QBs can go through injuries and come back and continue to play. I think if a QB's career is ruined by injury, especially in this day with medicine where it is, it should could against him. Warner's career was just too short to join the hall of fame. His entrance would surely make it, if it already is not, the hall of very good.
Click to expand...
Which brings us to an entirely different question . . . would the answer be different if after the 2001 season Warner got hurt and could never play again?
 
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
I suppose you could make the argument. Which looks better to you? (one is Warner's 1999-2001, one Young's 92-94) X:
Code: 
Pass attempts:	B-8, C-10Completions:	A-7, B-3, C-6Passing yards:	A-2, B-2, C-4Passing TDs:	A-1, B-1, C-1Adjusted yards per pass:	A-1, B-1, C-1
Y:
Code: 
Seasons among the league's top 10Pass attempts:	A-7t, C-7Completions:	A-4, C-1Passing yards:	A-2, C-1Passing TDs:	A-1, B-7t, C-1Adjusted yards per pass:	A-1, B-2, C-1
A is year 1, B year 2, C year 3Come to think of it, perhaps the most impressive thing here, is neither had a season where they were ranked above #7 in pass attempts.
 
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David Yudkin said:
Bull Dozier said:
I'll agree Warner's situation is similar to Davis, but personally, I think it is more important for a QB to show excellence over a period of time than it is for a RB. RB's careers are inherantly short. Guys like Davis, and Sayers flamed out early due to injuries, but I don't think their greatness can be debated. I don't think that should eliminate a guy from contention off the bat.For a QB though, I think it is different. QBs can go through injuries and come back and continue to play. I think if a QB's career is ruined by injury, especially in this day with medicine where it is, it should could against him. Warner's career was just too short to join the hall of fame. His entrance would surely make it, if it already is not, the hall of very good.
Click to expand...
Which brings us to an entirely different question . . . would the answer be different if after the 2001 season Warner got hurt and could never play again?
Click to expand...
Saw that one comin'. The fairy tale would be more compelling but unless the veterans commitee voted him in there is no way Warner is a hof'er.
 
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
While this is almost entirely good posting, Young's 92-94 down?
Click to expand...
He's certainly a candidate for discussion and his rushing totals get him a lot of bonus points. But for straight passing stats IMO Warner did more on a per game basis . . .Young: 238.7 passing yards, 1.85 passing TDWarner: 293.3 passing yards, 2.28 passing TD
 
I find myself feeling like the majority so far and that is that I like Warner and like what he did with the Rams but his impact is too little for the HOF. Wgat he did was indeed outstanding but a carrer as short as his makes it difficult to put him in.

The question also being asked is had he been injured (leaving in doubt what he would later do after the Rams) and his future persformance remian unknown to us, would we think different of him? I think we'd all feel he would continue to produce at a high level. But the without knowing what was going to happen, I think no based on how few years he had to produce.

For some reason in my mind I feel one's impact if limited to fewer than 5 years has to be so great that you can overlook what else happens. Warne had a great 3 year run but that's not going to be enough in most cases. In his case he didn't so much more than others before him. Others had thrown for more yards and TD's so he didn't reset the bar that would make you say wow he did what no one else had done before.

Edit to add that I feel another factor for me in the number of years played is the position. QB's tend to play the longest along with WR's. Whereas RB's have a more limited career avg. So I can't apply a blanket number of years to all positions.

 
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David Yudkin said:
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
While this is almost entirely good posting, Young's 92-94 down?
Click to expand...
He's certainly a candidate for discussion and his rushing totals get him a lot of bonus points. But for straight passing stats IMO Warner did more on a per game basis . . .Young: 238.7 passing yards, 1.85 passing TDWarner: 293.3 passing yards, 2.28 passing TD
Click to expand...
Per game basis? Looking at just total passing yards (and not yards per attempt or INTs)? Even without the rushing yards, I'd say Young's passings stats >>> Warner's passing stats for the three year stretch. Include the rushing and it's a no brainer.
 
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
While this is almost entirely good posting, Young's 92-94 down?
Click to expand...
He's certainly a candidate for discussion and his rushing totals get him a lot of bonus points. But for straight passing stats IMO Warner did more on a per game basis . . .Young: 238.7 passing yards, 1.85 passing TDWarner: 293.3 passing yards, 2.28 passing TD
Click to expand...
Per game basis? Looking at just total passing yards (and not yards per attempt or INTs)? Even without the rushing yards, I'd say Young's passings stats >>> Warner's passing stats for the three year stretch. Include the rushing and it's a no brainer.
Click to expand...
I'm not definitively looking to make a case one way or another, but combining rushing and passing yards and rushing and receiving TD . . .Warner: 12781/99 (99-01)Young: 12694/102 (92-94)Manning: 12820/112 (04-06)Favre: 12713/119 (94-96)Culpepper: 13486/98 (02-04)Marino: 13933/122 (82-84)Fouts: 13719/91 (79-81)Maybe Warner's 3-year numbers aren't quite as impressive . . . although missing five and a half games when others didn't puts him at a slight disadvantage.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
David Yudkin said:
David Yudkin said:
A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
Warner: 12781/99 (99-01)Marino: 13933/122 (82-84)Fouts: 13719/91 (79-81)Maybe Warner's 3-year numbers aren't quite as impressive . . . although missing five and a half games when others didn't puts him at a slight disadvantage.
Click to expand...
You have the wrong years listed for Marino.1984-86 is damn impressive.Pass attempts: 1984-1, 1985-2, 1986-1Completions: 1984-1, 1985-1, 1986-1Passing yards: 1984-1, 1985-1, 1986-1Passing TDs: 1984-1, 1985-1, 1986-1
 
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sizzer55 said:
i might be wrong about this but for some reason i think warner was league mvp only once.

in the years 99 and 01 i think he won once and faulk won once. i'll try to find out for sure and get back to you.
Click to expand...
They split the award in 2001 (MVP/POY):
1999

• Kurt Warner, QB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press, Pro Football Writers Association of America, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

2000

• Marshall Faulk, RB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press, Pro Football Writers Association of America)

• Rich Gannon, QB - Oakland (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

2001

• Kurt Warner, QB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press)

• Marshall Faulk, RB - St. Louis Rams (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")
Click to expand...
As to the thread question: No.
 
1999 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams, Quarterback

2000 Marshall Faulk St. Louis Rams, Running Back

2001 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams, Quarterback

 
David Yudkin said:
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
Chase Stuart said:
David Yudkin said:
-OZ- said:
tell me you're fishing. If Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are debated, Warner has no shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not a real believer in any of these guys as truly ideal HOF candidates, but the stretch that Warner had in STL pretty much trumps all other 3 year stretches for any QB. In the past 10 years, Holmes, Davis, Faulk, Alexander, and LT (and to a lesser extent Barber) have all had great 3-year runs, so while they all were great there were at least others in the same league. A case can be made that no one has duplicated what Warner did in that stretch--the closest was probably Favre and Manning.
Click to expand...
While this is almost entirely good posting, Young's 92-94 down?
Click to expand...
He's certainly a candidate for discussion and his rushing totals get him a lot of bonus points. But for straight passing stats IMO Warner did more on a per game basis . . .Young: 238.7 passing yards, 1.85 passing TDWarner: 293.3 passing yards, 2.28 passing TD
Click to expand...
Per game basis? Looking at just total passing yards (and not yards per attempt or INTs)? Even without the rushing yards, I'd say Young's passings stats >>> Warner's passing stats for the three year stretch. Include the rushing and it's a no brainer.
Click to expand...
I'm not definitively looking to make a case one way or another, but combining rushing and passing yards and rushing and receiving TD . . .Warner: 12781/99 (99-01)Young: 12694/102 (92-94)Manning: 12820/112 (04-06)Favre: 12713/119 (94-96)Culpepper: 13486/98 (02-04)Marino: 13933/122 (82-84)Fouts: 13719/91 (79-81)Maybe Warner's 3-year numbers aren't quite as impressive . . . although missing five and a half games when others didn't puts him at a slight disadvantage.
Click to expand...
Young 8.46 AY/A, 7.78 AY/A, 8.39 AY/AWarner 8.37 AY/A, 8.15 AY/A, 7.69 AY/AYoung's best, second best and third best is better than Warner's best, second best and third best, and the league average AY/A was ever so slightly higher in Warner's era. When you look at just passing, I'd give you that Warner's '99 was the best of the bunch, but Warner's '00 was also the worst of the bunch. I'd give a slight passing edge to Young, but considering his additional 400 yards and 4 TDs on the ground, along with his number one fantasy QB ranking each year and being top five overall each year, I think Young's 92-94 is the best three year stretch by any quarterback ever.
 
I still think he's got the ability to put up some awesome stats in Zona. When he gets a full game to play, he often throws for 300 yards. I'm fairly certain it's more often than any other QB. I understand that's more of an FF stat than something in the NFL world but everyone always has him "done" and then there's a performance like week 17 where he throws for 356 yards.

I don't wish harm upon Leinart and it does seem he'd have to get hurt for Warner to play, yet I would like to see him play a full season in arizona.

In 05 he played 8 games and 2 partial games and threw for 2700 yards. He could have hit 4k had he played a full season.

The one year with the Giants has really soured fans on him. That line was horrific and I don't think you could say Young or Montana would have rocked in that situation.

 
Terrell Davis with an NFL MVP, Superbowl MVP, 2 superbowl championships and a 2000 yard season can't get in, forget Warner. TD deserves to get in before Warner b/c of that 2000 yard season, other than that they are comparable. Unfortunately for TD, both won't get in

 
A flash in the pan.

I don't think Terrell Davis (I refuse to call him TD, that would be Tony Dorsett) should get in either.

 
dutch said:
Warner's case is similar to that of Davis in that they both had a short burst of true brilliance and also played in systems that allowed others to achieve comparable stats after they were gone. Where they differ is...I dont know. I say no way to Warner And Davis.
Click to expand...
Dutch summed it up... I feel the same way.
 
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