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Jason Hill (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KoolKat
- Start date
coolnerd
Footballguy
Hill considered coming out last year but went back to school. He had a dynamic Jr year making plenty of plays. His senior year was a disappointment, but he played with a high ankle sprain which obviously hindered his speed.
Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2003 12 0 0 0.0 0
2004 11 45 1,007 22.4 12
2005 10 62 1,097 17.7 13
2006 10 41 600 14.6 7
Totals 43 148 2,704 18.3 32
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So looking at his career and not just 2006, Hill had catches over 70 yards each of the last three seasons and lived in the end zone with a high yards per catch. Those of us that looked at him, may not have seen the real player. Hill may not be a combine darling, but a real prospect who played through an injury which colored the perspection of his actual pure speed.
Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2003 12 0 0 0.0 0
2004 11 45 1,007 22.4 12
2005 10 62 1,097 17.7 13
2006 10 41 600 14.6 7
Totals 43 148 2,704 18.3 32
_____________________________________________________________
So looking at his career and not just 2006, Hill had catches over 70 yards each of the last three seasons and lived in the end zone with a high yards per catch. Those of us that looked at him, may not have seen the real player. Hill may not be a combine darling, but a real prospect who played through an injury which colored the perspection of his actual pure speed.
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Santa Fe Trail
Footballguy
It seems like even the WSU homers on their message board were surprised.
I went back and read his recruiting stories on scout.com. As a HS junior he was playing QB and clocked a 4.52 weighing just 170 pounds but was a hoopster with a huge vertical. He moved to WR as a senior but was raw and it doesn't look like he got offered by USC, UCLA, and Cal. He showed up at WSU 20 pounds heavier and clocked a 4.42. I guess he just kept developing later than most. Daymeion Hughes gave him props this year when he said he was the best wr that he's faced over the past three years. He must have been really slowed this year.
I went back and read his recruiting stories on scout.com. As a HS junior he was playing QB and clocked a 4.52 weighing just 170 pounds but was a hoopster with a huge vertical. He moved to WR as a senior but was raw and it doesn't look like he got offered by USC, UCLA, and Cal. He showed up at WSU 20 pounds heavier and clocked a 4.42. I guess he just kept developing later than most. Daymeion Hughes gave him props this year when he said he was the best wr that he's faced over the past three years. He must have been really slowed this year.
He did not show that kind of separation speed at the Senior Bowl practices
coolnerd
Footballguy
The two NFL guys (good players) who had incredible timed speed, but have low YPC and don't play as fast as the number suggest are L. coles who ran 4.3 ish and Andre Johnson who was a legitimate track sprinter. Hill's production suggests that he is capable of big plays, so the timed speed actually matches that giving him what seem to be a more complete profile. I am not going to say that he is shooting up the boards, but he at least deserves another glance.
Not sure if those are good comparisons. I think Coles is slower now. He averaged 14+ ypr before he got that toe issue in Washington and has been between 10-12 ypr since then, although maybe he is starting to get over the issue as his ypr has steadily climbed the past 3 years.As for AJ, he also was 14+ ypr when he wasn't getting force fed the ball short, like the last 2 years where he isn't getting any downfield looks. I think Houston's problem is Carr and the ridiculous number of sacks. As as AJ owner, it gets pretty frustrating watching those garbage time drives where you hope for good AJ production and it seems like every play is a sack or a 1 yard run by Carr.Aside from the injury marred 2005, AJ has averaged 16 20+ yard gains and 3-4 40+ yard gains. Reggie Wayne in comparison has averaged 14 and 2.5 in his starter years and Javon Walker had 16 and 4 last year for Denver, so AJ still has potential. Problem is that even though 2006 looked similar to 2003 & 2004 in long gains, he had 103 receptions in 2006, compared to 72.5 in 2003/2004. The passing game in 2006 shortened up, but I think AJ could easily get back to the 14-15 ypr average if the Carr/OL (not sure % of blame to throw around) problem is solved.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Hill ran a 4.32 40, but just a 4.22 20yd shuttle.
I mentioned this on The Audible for Sunday, but one of the commentators (I believe Mike Mayock) mentioned that scouts have told him that there should be 0.3 to 0.35 difference between those two numbers. This tells me that there's something wrong with the times of one of the two - the gap is way too small at just a tenth.
A smaller gap means that the guy is straightline fast but not that quick, whereas a bigger gap (say 0.4+) means he is quick but not straightline fast. So in this case I'd question his quickness, OR I'd call the 4.32 time questionable.
After I watched the NFL-N Sunday, I backed up and watched Hill. I'm not certain of the mechanisms of the timing, but he clearly breaks the tape / string with his left hand and not his chest on his 4.32 run, which isn't kosher for timing purposes.
I'd love to hear about his second attempt.
I mentioned this on The Audible for Sunday, but one of the commentators (I believe Mike Mayock) mentioned that scouts have told him that there should be 0.3 to 0.35 difference between those two numbers. This tells me that there's something wrong with the times of one of the two - the gap is way too small at just a tenth.
A smaller gap means that the guy is straightline fast but not that quick, whereas a bigger gap (say 0.4+) means he is quick but not straightline fast. So in this case I'd question his quickness, OR I'd call the 4.32 time questionable.
After I watched the NFL-N Sunday, I backed up and watched Hill. I'm not certain of the mechanisms of the timing, but he clearly breaks the tape / string with his left hand and not his chest on his 4.32 run, which isn't kosher for timing purposes.
I'd love to hear about his second attempt.
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rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
I think you have the right idea, but are off base a bit. A typical player will have a .3-.35 difference. If is is more, than you are quick in and out of your breaks. If it less, it means you need to gather yourself and slow down in the turns. However, very few players that run a sub 4.4 will ever have a .3-.35 difference. You can only run the shuttle so fast. I don't think any wr ran faster than a 4.08 shuttle at the combine this year.
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KoolKat
Footballguy
I heard he did well at the Senior Bowl Practices, and caught a TD in the game? I assume Bloom is more informed than I.
He did well but he was not able to separate consistently from the DBs on deep routes.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
I agree with you about the "physical limit" thing to his time, but 0.1 is a "tell" towards checking into how he did.For example, if he ran a 4.32, he should have had a 4.1-ish shuttle.rabidfireweasel said:
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Just reviewed the WRs. Of 19 times in the 20 yd shuffle, he was 4th worst (16th) despite having the 2nd best 40 yard time. That tells me there's an issue.Also for comparison sake, take a look at other WRs:Name (40/20)David Clowney (4.36/4.15)Anthony Gonzalez (4.44/4.08)Steve Smith (4.44/4.19)James Jones (4.53/4.2)Yes there were two other WRs that had small spreads (Figurs and L. Robinson), but when I saw him clip the line with his hand all of his numbers were questionable to me.Mind you, 4.32 or 4.4, he's speedy. I just want to see his 2nd 40 time somewhere and I'm not buying 4.32 blazing speed.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I saw 4.32/4.35 posted yesterday at NFL Network.
We can parse these numbers all we want. How many have really watched Jason Hill play several games? I've probably seen ten to twelve over the past two seasons. This kid is a freaky beast of a talented WR when healthy and he played tough as nails hurt all last year. He will flat knock the crap out of an LB when blocking. Just ask Jerome Harrison about Hill as a blocker. He got deep against some solid DBs when he was healthy as a junior and he scorched the mediocre ones. Cal's excellent CB Hughes says Hill is tougher to cover than Derek Hagen, Demetrius Williams, Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett. I expected him to be sub 4.4, but barely, and if you think he lacks quicks, you really can trust me, it is just this drill. He has excellent gears and a graceful fluidity that makes him look a little slower than he is. But his ability to separate, when constantly double covered as a junior had little to do with his sub 4.4 straight line speed, and everything to do with razor sharp routes based on very good quickness. He also has a very strong NFL body, terrific playmaking ability and quick sure hands. He would have been the #1 WR off the board last year had he declared. If you like guys like Demetrius Williams and Derek Hagan, you won't find many serious Pac 10 fans who believe either measure up to Jason Hill. He had a rough season with injuries. I know he didn't impress Bloom at the Senior Bowl, but if you watch all the vids I posted he got deep separation on McCauley twice in one quick segment. He made it look effortless like he usually does and the balls were terribly underthrown. An underthrown ball can make a receiver look like he cannot separate.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Agreed that we get lost in the numbers this week with the combine.
Most likely the interviews and not grossly underperforming on the field are the most important things from the combine.
Most likely the interviews and not grossly underperforming on the field are the most important things from the combine.
