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1.18: Who Should The Cincinnati Bengals Take? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Olsen or the next best O-Lineman...
Palmer is their franchise player and needs to be protected.
Palmer is their franchise player and needs to be protected.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
A) One of the cornerbacks. My rankings are Houston/Revis/////Hall
B) Posluszny/Beason/Timmons - their LB corps is a wreck.
Their o-line is just fine.
B) Posluszny/Beason/Timmons - their LB corps is a wreck.
Their o-line is just fine.
WampusCat43
Footballguy
Posluszny if possible, Houston if not. LB is their weakest position.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I've asked before, but what's the current opinion of Ahmad Brooks?
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
In 2004; the spent 2 3rds on LBsIn 2005; they spent both 1st and 2nd on LBs Who know what the deal is w/ Thurman and remember Pollack (1st rd pick 2005) maybe back from that Neck injury.Brooks, Johnson, Miller are very young..Not sure if they invest a 1st into LB this yr; I would like it they went after Briggs and get some older Leadership.But I see them going Offense this time.
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Pittsburgh United
Footballguy
FixedAnyone that will not be in jail before the season ends starts.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
The OL has been addressed and re-addressed. The bulk of the cap has been invested in locking up the starters and the depth is reasonable unless the Jets sign RFA Stacy Andrews to an offer sheet. They may look at a guy late but not in the first couple rounds.Without a 3rd round pick, the first two rounds have to be defense. It's possible that a defensive lineman (end or tackle) comes off if a stud slips but it's almost certainly going to be a corner.The linebacking depth is weak, but serviceable with Jeanty/Brooks/Johnson as the starters and Miller behind. That position has to be addressed, but the backers they can get in the second and fourth may be just as solid as what can be had in the first if Timmons/Willis/Posluszny are gone. If they reach for a backer over a corner in the first, it's a clear sign that Thurman isn't welcome/ready to return.A safety is a possibility, too, but I don't know that the Bengals will take a shot at Reggie Nelson. Meriweather is taboo at this point. There are plenty of solid safeties to be had in the later rounds.I'd say this pick is 70% best available corner (Revis, Hall, Houston) or a trade down to try and recoup the draft position lost in the 06 supplemental, 25% LB/S, 5% trade or shocker.Andy:The latest on Brooks sounds good. They're expecting that a full off-season of teaching/camps/playbook work and conditioning will do wonders. Brooks was 290 pounds this time last year, missed all of mini-camp and got thrust into a starter's role by the second month of the season. He was supposed to be developed for 2007 all along. Marvin likes guys that know what they're doing at all times and don't make critical errors that lead to big plays. Brooks was too raw to trust in the lineup down the stretch and wasn't ready to contribute on teams. I think he becomes a contributor in 2007.
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Routilla
Footballguy
LOL!FixedAnyone that will not be in jail before the season ends starts.
Bonzai
Footballguy
The OL has been addressed and re-addressed. The bulk of the cap has been invested in locking up the starters and the depth is reasonable unless the Jets sign RFA Stacy Andrews to an offer sheet. They may look at a guy late but not in the first couple rounds.Without a 3rd round pick, the first two rounds have to be defense. It's possible that a defensive lineman (end or tackle) comes off if a stud slips but it's almost certainly going to be a corner.The linebacking depth is weak, but serviceable with Jeanty/Brooks/Johnson as the starters and Miller behind. That position has to be addressed, but the backers they can get in the second and fourth may be just as solid as what can be had in the first if Timmons/Willis/Posluszny are gone. If they reach for a backer over a corner in the first, it's a clear sign that Thurman isn't welcome/ready to return.A safety is a possibility, too, but I don't know that the Bengals will take a shot at Reggie Nelson. Meriweather is taboo at this point. There are plenty of solid safeties to be had in the later rounds.I'd say this pick is 70% best available corner (Revis, Hall, Houston) or a trade down to try and recoup the draft position lost in the 06 supplemental, 15% LB/S, 5% trade or shocker.Andy:The latest on Brooks sounds good. They're expecting that a full off-season of teaching/camps/playbook work and conditioning will do wonders. Brooks was 290 pounds this time last year, missed all of mini-camp and got thrust into a starter's role by the second month of the season. He was supposed to be developed for 2007 all along. Marvin likes guys that know what they're doing at all times and don't make critical errors that lead to big plays. Brooks was too raw to trust in the lineup down the stretch and wasn't ready to contribute on teams. I think he becomes a contributor in 2007.
if okoye or branch happen to fall to them, i think they snatch him up.but with that looking less and less likely they add a corner or linebacker.the two names i keep hearing are revis and beason; both being good value at that point.
NoFBinLA
Moderator
Fixed again.FixedAnyone that will not be in jail before the season ends starts tomorrow.
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
The OL has been addressed and re-addressed. The bulk of the cap has been invested in locking up the starters and the depth is reasonable unless the Jets sign RFA Stacy Andrews to an offer sheet. They may look at a guy late but not in the first couple rounds.Without a 3rd round pick, the first two rounds have to be defense. It's possible that a defensive lineman (end or tackle) comes off if a stud slips but it's almost certainly going to be a corner.The linebacking depth is weak, but serviceable with Jeanty/Brooks/Johnson as the starters and Miller behind. That position has to be addressed, but the backers they can get in the second and fourth may be just as solid as what can be had in the first if Timmons/Willis/Posluszny are gone. If they reach for a backer over a corner in the first, it's a clear sign that Thurman isn't welcome/ready to return.A safety is a possibility, too, but I don't know that the Bengals will take a shot at Reggie Nelson. Meriweather is taboo at this point. There are plenty of solid safeties to be had in the later rounds.I'd say this pick is 70% best available corner (Revis, Hall, Houston) or a trade down to try and recoup the draft position lost in the 06 supplemental, 25% LB/S, 5% trade or shocker.Andy:The latest on Brooks sounds good. They're expecting that a full off-season of teaching/camps/playbook work and conditioning will do wonders. Brooks was 290 pounds this time last year, missed all of mini-camp and got thrust into a starter's role by the second month of the season. He was supposed to be developed for 2007 all along. Marvin likes guys that know what they're doing at all times and don't make critical errors that lead to big plays. Brooks was too raw to trust in the lineup down the stretch and wasn't ready to contribute on teams. I think he becomes a contributor in 2007.
I'm hoping Andrews goes to the Jets. With a 1st and two 2nds, they can shore up the secondary and LBs without trading down.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
So what are the thoughts on Thurman? Is it likely he's gone?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Seems that way. Lewis keeps things pretty close to the vest, so kicking Thurman out of the locker room was pretty telling. For now, Thurman can't apply for re-instatement until mid-July and no one has made any speculation one way or the other if he'll be anywhere near playing shape. The current mantra from everyone involved, team and beat writers, is that Odell has to get his life together with football a distant second priority.ConstruxBoy said:
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
When asked about Odell, Marvin said that he is not a part of the team, period. I personally think this is coachspeak. As far as I've heard Odell is still in rehab, and if he keeps his act together through the spring he'll be back.ConstruxBoy said:
The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
NorrisB
Footballguy
He's pretty raw, we really havent seen enough of him, The Bengals are going to take a cornerback, there's no question about it. Either Houston, Revis or Hall, the Bengals were like 30th against the pass and 14th against the run and it was mostly due to not having anyone resembling a nickle corner.Andy Dufresne said:
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?KellysHeroes said:The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks to both you and Jene. He looked so good that I hate to drop him from IDP league, but I guess if they grab a 1st or 2nd round LB, on top of Brooks, it would be a bad sign.
M
Marc Faletti
Guest
It was always my dream to be a C student!
Seriously, though, I am not confident Olsen would be the right pick here (sorry Cec -- and I know you hardly love the guy anyway). Bodycatchers at TE make me nervous, especially in the first.[it should also be noted Baca's Houston and Bloom's Hall were both off my board, as was Revis. Maybe that can bump me to a B-!]
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I'd argue that the spotty pass rush was as much to blame. I think the nickel corner was much, much better than the starters as well.I'm with you, though. This pick should be a corner unless a stud front seven guy slides.
You can get good starting quality LBs in the 2nd and/or 3rd. However, you cannot get good starting quality corners late. Need to go CB in the 1st to give them an even serviceable nickle package...unless, Madieu moves over from safety, which gives them the flexibility to take the BPA of DB, LB or DL. But, I like Williams at safety where he can make plays, which means they need a CB.
NorrisB
Footballguy
He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?KellysHeroes said:The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
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ebcpastor2004
Footballguy
AR Homer & Bengals fan-- Houston would be awesome here!
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?KellysHeroes said:
BengalsDraftGuru
Footballguy
Hello all,
The NFL Draft Guys were nice enough to add in some of my analysis into their Bengals OTC segment.
Check it out and check out the BDG link in their "friends" section.
The NFL Draft Guys were nice enough to add in some of my analysis into their Bengals OTC segment.
Check it out and check out the BDG link in their "friends" section.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I think you and Cecil are off the mark here. Chris Henry's legal issues and the health of the Perrys make this marginally more likely but still a poor decision. I'll also strongly disagree that David Macklin would've been a smarter/better option than any of the top six corners (or more). The decision not to pursue a corner in FA is just as much lack of talent in the second tier FAs as it is cap related. Adding another offensive weapon is extremely short-sighted, especially given the lack of a third round pick, if the reasoning is the need for a third down and red zone weapon.If you feel they must have another offensive weapon, there'll be plenty of solid WR options and two other solid TE prospects available in the second. The pool of CBs is deep too, but the top level CB is probably the BPA at 18 and fits a need.Bengals fans will rightly be fussy if the first round pick is spent on a luxury like a pass-catching TE. If this pick isn't a CB, it better be because a stud DT, DE, WLB, or S slipped.
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NorrisB
Footballguy
Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
They let him walk so easily because they had no interest in paying a guard that kind of money...which is smart football management. You keep Smith because he is at least difficult to replace in the short-term...though certainly not worth the money longer term.Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?
I'm sure I don't know more than the front office. The general consensus behind allowing Steinbach to leave put forward by some observers (Hobson etal) that the team was unwilling to pay a tackle's salary to a guard, especially after Willie Anderson was extended. The decision to franchise Smith is questionable, I agree, but was made with the future in mind. Even with this love for Frostee Rucker, Smith is the only three down end on the roster. Bryan Robinson is replacement level at best. They apparently feel that Geathers is mostly a situational player given that there's been no discussion about putting him in an every down role at RDE. Johnathan Fanene is interesting, but no better a pass rusher than Smith and has trouble staying healthy. I don't know how you let Smith walk without a better plan in place, especially with needs at corner and defensive tackle (and probably linebacker) too.Every other established end of consequence was being franchised; DeWayne White and Patrick Kerney aren't clear upgrades over Smith and would cost more guaranteed money long-term than putting a one year franchise number on Smith with the intent to negotiate a better cap deal.You've got to make a tough decision somewhere. You have to put some money toward the defense at some point. It doesn't make sense to continue to play with a weaker DL (no ready replacement for Smith) and spend money on Steinbach when you've got two solid backups in Whitworth and Andrews ready to compete for the job.
Kirby
Footballguy
I'm thinking it's a franchise Smith for this year to see if Pollack can comeback and make the move back to DE in 08. Safer position for the neck.Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?I'm sure I don't know more than the front office. The general consensus behind allowing Steinbach to leave put forward by some observers (Hobson etal) that the team was unwilling to pay a tackle's salary to a guard, especially after Willie Anderson was extended. The decision to franchise Smith is questionable, I agree, but was made with the future in mind. Even with this love for Frostee Rucker, Smith is the only three down end on the roster. Bryan Robinson is replacement level at best. They apparently feel that Geathers is mostly a situational player given that there's been no discussion about putting him in an every down role at RDE. Johnathan Fanene is interesting, but no better a pass rusher than Smith and has trouble staying healthy. I don't know how you let Smith walk without a better plan in place, especially with needs at corner and defensive tackle (and probably linebacker) too.Every other established end of consequence was being franchised; DeWayne White and Patrick Kerney aren't clear upgrades over Smith and would cost more guaranteed money long-term than putting a one year franchise number on Smith with the intent to negotiate a better cap deal.You've got to make a tough decision somewhere. You have to put some money toward the defense at some point. It doesn't make sense to continue to play with a weaker DL (no ready replacement for Smith) and spend money on Steinbach when you've got two solid backups in Whitworth and Andrews ready to compete for the job.
BengalsDraftGuru
Footballguy
My contention is that if the Bengals had plans on drafting a 1st round CB, they would have made a move to bring in a FA and Macklin simply would have been a cheap, experienced vet. If the Bengals drafted a 1st round CB, it would almost certainly have to be because they have no faith in Deltha O'Neal. But if they have no faith in him, why keep him around, why let him be a starter or even keep him for depth? Cut him or trade him. There is no depth behind Jospeh and O'Neal that would be able to step up and fill the starting role and the Bengals don't want to be starting Jospeph (2nd year) and a rookie at CB or Joseph/Ratliff. They simply would have made a move to bring someone in at the position. If the Bengals had plans on trading Deltha, again, you would expect a team to make moves that show signs of a backup plan. They want a vet playing opposite Joseph.CB is not a need for this team at all on day one really. Everyone sees trade rumors about Deltha and they remember his bad 2006 season was and make ASSUMPTIONS. What if Deltha has regained his form? What is the point in drafting a 1st round CB then? No one seems to have thought about that. They see the Bengals talking about Revis and having visits with secondary players...at the combine the Bengals were stricken from speaking to the media, why then would they be so public about who they like? It's a HUGE smoke screen. Get the teams above them to be worried the Bengals want secondary guys, so teams above them run on CB and S, hopefully dropping a player the Bengals truly want right in their lap. I do think Amobi Okoye is the ultimate target for the Bengals, and they have a better chance at landing him than anyone suspects at this point. I really like Amobi, but he not a top 10 player. If Amobi is off the board though, I would not be surprised by and would actually be expecting Olsen.And whats wrong with Olsen? The past 2 years the Bengals have considered taking 3 different TEs on day 1. They are in the same position (18, 17 in 2005) they are when they passed on Heath Miller, and they considered him. Greg may also be on the board and he fits more with the Bengal offense than Heath Miller would have. (Had the Bengals drafted Heath, we would not even be talking about this or Chris Henry right now and seeing as how Henry might never play again.....see where this is going?) They wanted Fasano and Thomas last year and got screwed out of both.For as many problems as the defense has last year, the Bengals have the worst offensive stat of any, 3rd down coversions at a lowly 35%. This team is bulit around the offense and with the losses of Perry and Henry, it's taken a huge hit. In the long run, offense wins out over defense with this organization and if Amobi is gone and Greg is there, it will be Greg in a Bengals uni.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
You answered your own question.There is nobody behind Joseph and O'Neal to assume the starting job much less be adequate in nickel packages. That's why there's been so much off-season talk about coaching Ethan Kilmer up at safety and considering moving Madieu Williams to safety. If the Bengals could get a first day pick for O'Neal, they'd do it. His on-field play has been so sporadic over the past four seasons and the CB crop is so relatively deep this year that there's no way a team is giving up that kind of value in the hopes that the 2005 O'Neal shows up to camp.
There is no cap space to bring in another body. David Macklin, Rod Hood, Jason David (RFA) -- none of these guys are long term answers. Stick with the devil you know until you can replace them. And the Bengals have a long history of preferring to use the draft than free agency to build.
What was the point of drafting a corner in the first round in 2006? O'Neal just had a career year. James played in the Pro Bowl. If ever there was a season when corner wasn't a need, it was last year.
IMO, addressing concerns about coverage in the secondary is such a vital need that you could well see two corners (or a corner and two-way safety) drafted this year, even if one is taken at 18.
If Okoye falls to 18, I'll be absolutely and utterly flabbergasted. And happy when the Bengals take him over a corner.
Nothing is wrong with Olsen. I'd love to have another weapon for Palmer. It's not a smart use of the pick. They passed on the first round stud pass catching TE recently because they were happy with the weapons they had. No question, things have changed.I'll make no apologies for being a defensive guy. Anyone around here will tell you that. I strongly agree that you have to surround your franchise quarterback with as many playmakers and protectors as possible. They are there. This was the 6th ranked offense in the NFL last season despite a QB struggling to regain his form behind an OL beset by injury and a revolving door at the WR3 position. I'd argue that the third down percentage had just as much to do with the up and down OL play and Palmer's slow to recover mechanics as it did with the lack of a third down option.
Sure, it sucks when another team trades ahead of you and grabs a coveted two way TE target. I'd still like to see one to take the heat off on third down and give Palmer that extra weapon. But using your top draft pick on a third down/red zone option when top level talent is available at a position of greater need (IMO) is a poor use of draft resources.
Cool debate. Thanks.
BengalsDraftGuru
Footballguy
I think you ment to say, "Move Madieu to Corner." BUT...Madieu is in a contract year and if they move him to CB and look to resign him, he'll want CB type $$, making it harder to resign him. I think they'd like him back. It will be cheaper to leave him at Safety.
But if the Bengals cut or traded Deltha, are you saying they go into the season then with Joseph/Rookie or Jospeh/Ratliff starting duo? Cause those would be only options without having gone out and signed a player like Macklin. If they signed Macklin, they could cut ties with O'Neal, Start Macklin/Joseph and then have the rookie take over at mid-season.
They have not made a move to bring in a player like that, so thats why I believe they will not be going round 1 CB.
And why waste a 1st round pick if they think Deltha will return to form?
I think there is more chance of Okoye being there than anyone thinks. Putting him top 5 of your mock draft will get you looks, but it's not very realistic.
But if the Bengals cut or traded Deltha, are you saying they go into the season then with Joseph/Rookie or Jospeh/Ratliff starting duo? Cause those would be only options without having gone out and signed a player like Macklin. If they signed Macklin, they could cut ties with O'Neal, Start Macklin/Joseph and then have the rookie take over at mid-season.
They have not made a move to bring in a player like that, so thats why I believe they will not be going round 1 CB.
And why waste a 1st round pick if they think Deltha will return to form?
I think there is more chance of Okoye being there than anyone thinks. Putting him top 5 of your mock draft will get you looks, but it's not very realistic.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Yes, I meant move Madieu to corner.
And I'm not a big fan of that plan either.If they dealt O'Neal, they'd have to put an unproven player there. If the rumors were true, that's pretty telling about what they feel O'Neal prospects to be in 2007. I'd be reluctant to move O'Neal too. Marvin Lewis' comments earlier in the off-season suggest that O'Neal needs to seriously recommit himself to return to form. They grabbed a corner last year when it didn't look to be near the position of need that it does now. I don't see much reason to think that the same won't happen again. Draft the hopeful replacement for O'Neal in 2008 and hope that you can keep him in the nickel role all year long as they did with Joseph last year.I hope you're right on Okoye. I'd love Okoye/2nd round corner rather than seeing a reach for a Landon Johnson like clone in the second round if that truly is the consideration. An Okoye/Tanard Jackson start to this draft would be awesome.the bengals didn't miss the playoffs last year because of their offense, though it definitely wasn't clicking like everyone expected (i blame carsons recovery and the loss of chris perry, not the lack of a TE). they missed the playoffs because of a lack of defense, and right now the defensive unit looks weaker this year than last. drafting Olsen (who had a great combine, not a great college career) in the first is silly. i don't care what defensive position they draft in the 1st (prefer a DB), just as long as its defense.
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Bonzai
Footballguy
agreed.if we did draft offensively, i'd rather have ginn than olsen.
BengalsDraftGuru
Footballguy
Whats the point in wasting the 18th pick on a player like Ginn when you can get the pretty much the SAME player, for much better value in Ryne Robinson? He could be had in the 5th round.
He's a more polished WR and he's just as big of a threat, if not BIGGER threat than Ginn is as a punt returner. (7 punt returns for TDs, 5 more called back due to penalty)
What would really help the defense out more than any draft pick?
Learning to tackle.
He's a more polished WR and he's just as big of a threat, if not BIGGER threat than Ginn is as a punt returner. (7 punt returns for TDs, 5 more called back due to penalty)
What would really help the defense out more than any draft pick?
Learning to tackle.
Bonzai
Footballguy
i can't tell if this is ginn hate or robinson love, either way, i can't really get behind. i'll admit that i'm higher on ginn than most, but comparing ginn to robinson is a stretch.
gocats
Footballguy
David Pollack has zero chance of coming back, ZERO.I'm thinking it's a franchise Smith for this year to see if Pollack can comeback and make the move back to DE in 08. Safer position for the neck.Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?The Bengals are replacing Steinbach with Whitworth for gods sake, thats an improvement if anything, Steinbach was the one who allowed Von Oelhoffen to- hit Palmer in the knee against Pittsburgh
I'm sure I don't know more than the front office. The general consensus behind allowing Steinbach to leave put forward by some observers (Hobson etal) that the team was unwilling to pay a tackle's salary to a guard, especially after Willie Anderson was extended. The decision to franchise Smith is questionable, I agree, but was made with the future in mind. Even with this love for Frostee Rucker, Smith is the only three down end on the roster. Bryan Robinson is replacement level at best. They apparently feel that Geathers is mostly a situational player given that there's been no discussion about putting him in an every down role at RDE. Johnathan Fanene is interesting, but no better a pass rusher than Smith and has trouble staying healthy. I don't know how you let Smith walk without a better plan in place, especially with needs at corner and defensive tackle (and probably linebacker) too.Every other established end of consequence was being franchised; DeWayne White and Patrick Kerney aren't clear upgrades over Smith and would cost more guaranteed money long-term than putting a one year franchise number on Smith with the intent to negotiate a better cap deal.You've got to make a tough decision somewhere. You have to put some money toward the defense at some point. It doesn't make sense to continue to play with a weaker DL (no ready replacement for Smith) and spend money on Steinbach when you've got two solid backups in Whitworth and Andrews ready to compete for the job.
gocats
Footballguy
I would like to see the Bengals cut both John Thornton and Bryan Robinson, both of the guys are over paid and no longer contribute at a difference making level. Thornton was overpaid when the Bengals were trying to remove that stigma over the team and it makes no sense to be paying him $4M a year at this point in time. I see the defense looking like this next year:Robinson........JT.......Adams/Peko........JSmithwhich is a pretty bad unit, I think it was a terrible choice to franchise Justin Smith paying him $8.6M/year someone who got 4 sacks in 15 gamesJene Bramel said:NorrisB said:Well I guess we just disagree, I do think Steinbach is the better all around linemen but not for this system, Bengals brass wouldnt just let him walk that easy and franchise Justin Freakin Smith if they didnt agree with me. Perhaps you know more then the FO.Thanks. We'll agree to disagree then. Steinbach pulling on the Power O was a major part of the Bengal running game over the past three seasons. I think it would've been a mistake to sign Steinbach for what he got from the Browns and agree that Whitworth and Andrews are solid players, but I think Steinbach is clearly the better all-around lineman.He doesnt fit the Bengals power running game, he's more of a finese player and Whitworth is an upgrade as he's a mauler, I would even be ok with Stacy Andrews replacing Steinbach.Replacing the most versatile lineman on the roster with a guy with little experience at guard is an improvement. And Kimo was blocked reasonably well on that play -- long developing route, guy he took to the ground diving at the edge of the pocket.What do you have against Steinbach?I'm sure I don't know more than the front office. The general consensus behind allowing Steinbach to leave put forward by some observers (Hobson etal) that the team was unwilling to pay a tackle's salary to a guard, especially after Willie Anderson was extended. The decision to franchise Smith is questionable, I agree, but was made with the future in mind. Even with this love for Frostee Rucker, Smith is the only three down end on the roster. Bryan Robinson is replacement level at best. They apparently feel that Geathers is mostly a situational player given that there's been no discussion about putting him in an every down role at RDE. Johnathan Fanene is interesting, but no better a pass rusher than Smith and has trouble staying healthy. I don't know how you let Smith walk without a better plan in place, especially with needs at corner and defensive tackle (and probably linebacker) too.Every other established end of consequence was being franchised; DeWayne White and Patrick Kerney aren't clear upgrades over Smith and would cost more guaranteed money long-term than putting a one year franchise number on Smith with the intent to negotiate a better cap deal.You've got to make a tough decision somewhere. You have to put some money toward the defense at some point. It doesn't make sense to continue to play with a weaker DL (no ready replacement for Smith) and spend money on Steinbach when you've got two solid backups in Whitworth and Andrews ready to compete for the job.
I would let Smith walk if he doesnt sign a long term contract.The LBs are decent:OLB: L. JohnsonMLB: Nicholson/BrooksOLB: JeantyJeanty is the best LB, L. Johnson is mediocre and Nicholson is unknown. The secondary has holes at corner and nickle corner, and I hope to see a CB in the draft.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Okay, after a night to sleep on the first day of the draft...
GRADE: B
Round 1 -- CB Leon Hall
Despite the feeling some had that the Bengals should address another position, Hall was pretty clearly the best defensive player on the board according to most scouting services and fills an important need. Deltha O'Neal is inconsistent even by cover corner standards. Further, there isn't a player on the roster who has shown the ability to play the nickel corner role. Madieu Williams needs to play FS. Keiwan Ratliff has been more inconsistent than O'Neal. Hall is an excellent hedge against another poor season by O'Neal.
Those who don't like Hall pointed to his speed issues. He looked better at the combine and hopefully some of that straight line speed will better translate to the field in the future. Other concerns aside (deep corner draft, Hall's questionable play against big time WRs), some had Hall being considered at 7 (MIN) or 12 (BUF) if things had broken differently early. I'll take it.
Round 2 -- RB Kenny Irons
I'm still not happy here, though. Fine, Marvin, you liked David Harris and Lamarr Woodley and would've addressed the defense again had they been there. And I get that Chris Perry will probably never be the same and you've got no viable backup in the meantime. But did the RB have to come in the second round? Is Irons really good enough to take over a full time role if needed? Is his injury history any more attractive than that of Perry? Sure looks to me like the Bengals passed up a number of reasonable talents to take a guy who, in a perfect world, takes 10-12 snaps a game even if Perry is through. Given that RB started flying off the shelves like bottled water before a Cincinnati snowstorm shortly after, I guess you could give the benefit of the doubt here. Or you could argue that there was value in a trade down a few spots to pick up a third and a fourth (as the Cowboys did just behind) or a third and a fifth (as the Saints did four spots behind).
I understand that you've spent a lot of cash on the defensive line. But Justin Smith hasn't signed a long term deal yet and Robert Geathers is a situational guy for now. You have a long term need at LDE and a guy like Charles Johnson staring at you. You still could use a nickel corner/cover safety type guy to fill some depth and/or cover a slot receiver if Deltha O'Neal pouts instead of taking Hall's pick as a challenge. Tanard Jackson anyone? Maybe a Sabby Piscatelli? And a run stopping DT is going to be a priority soon. If you're continually addressing the 3rd WR, 2nd RB, 3rd CB roles, where's the love for a guy like Tank Tyler or Brandon Mebane?
Geoff Hobson said you don't reach in the 2nd-3rd-4th for a player. Then he argues that RB was enough of a need that "reach" doesn't apply. I like Geoff's stuff usually, but this is silly. The coaching line was, "We needed a guy to give us more long runs." Please. That's as silly (sorry BDG) as taking Greg Olsen early because you need another red zone option or want to convert a few more third downs on a team that has to continually cover for its poor defense.
I'm no general manager, but I'd wager a fair amount on the money line that a guy like DeShawn Wynn or Darius Walker will be available at their pick in the 4th. They obviously would've been available in the third had they moved back from their original second round spot. Hopefully Irons is a much better player than either of them.
Round 3 -- LB Ahmad Brooks
I'd guess this pick is going to look like very good value in due time. Especially since you bought yourself an extra long off-season of playbook time and a little bit on in-the-fire experience by using it in 2006.
Hall and Brooks make the draft a B so far, despite my misgivings on Irons. Here's hoping the 4th rounder is a player. Maybe a guy like Jackson falls to the 15th pick this morning.
GRADE: B
Round 1 -- CB Leon Hall
Despite the feeling some had that the Bengals should address another position, Hall was pretty clearly the best defensive player on the board according to most scouting services and fills an important need. Deltha O'Neal is inconsistent even by cover corner standards. Further, there isn't a player on the roster who has shown the ability to play the nickel corner role. Madieu Williams needs to play FS. Keiwan Ratliff has been more inconsistent than O'Neal. Hall is an excellent hedge against another poor season by O'Neal.
Those who don't like Hall pointed to his speed issues. He looked better at the combine and hopefully some of that straight line speed will better translate to the field in the future. Other concerns aside (deep corner draft, Hall's questionable play against big time WRs), some had Hall being considered at 7 (MIN) or 12 (BUF) if things had broken differently early. I'll take it.
Round 2 -- RB Kenny Irons
I'm still not happy here, though. Fine, Marvin, you liked David Harris and Lamarr Woodley and would've addressed the defense again had they been there. And I get that Chris Perry will probably never be the same and you've got no viable backup in the meantime. But did the RB have to come in the second round? Is Irons really good enough to take over a full time role if needed? Is his injury history any more attractive than that of Perry? Sure looks to me like the Bengals passed up a number of reasonable talents to take a guy who, in a perfect world, takes 10-12 snaps a game even if Perry is through. Given that RB started flying off the shelves like bottled water before a Cincinnati snowstorm shortly after, I guess you could give the benefit of the doubt here. Or you could argue that there was value in a trade down a few spots to pick up a third and a fourth (as the Cowboys did just behind) or a third and a fifth (as the Saints did four spots behind).
I understand that you've spent a lot of cash on the defensive line. But Justin Smith hasn't signed a long term deal yet and Robert Geathers is a situational guy for now. You have a long term need at LDE and a guy like Charles Johnson staring at you. You still could use a nickel corner/cover safety type guy to fill some depth and/or cover a slot receiver if Deltha O'Neal pouts instead of taking Hall's pick as a challenge. Tanard Jackson anyone? Maybe a Sabby Piscatelli? And a run stopping DT is going to be a priority soon. If you're continually addressing the 3rd WR, 2nd RB, 3rd CB roles, where's the love for a guy like Tank Tyler or Brandon Mebane?
Geoff Hobson said you don't reach in the 2nd-3rd-4th for a player. Then he argues that RB was enough of a need that "reach" doesn't apply. I like Geoff's stuff usually, but this is silly. The coaching line was, "We needed a guy to give us more long runs." Please. That's as silly (sorry BDG) as taking Greg Olsen early because you need another red zone option or want to convert a few more third downs on a team that has to continually cover for its poor defense.
I'm no general manager, but I'd wager a fair amount on the money line that a guy like DeShawn Wynn or Darius Walker will be available at their pick in the 4th. They obviously would've been available in the third had they moved back from their original second round spot. Hopefully Irons is a much better player than either of them.
Round 3 -- LB Ahmad Brooks
I'd guess this pick is going to look like very good value in due time. Especially since you bought yourself an extra long off-season of playbook time and a little bit on in-the-fire experience by using it in 2006.
Hall and Brooks make the draft a B so far, despite my misgivings on Irons. Here's hoping the 4th rounder is a player. Maybe a guy like Jackson falls to the 15th pick this morning.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Continuing the process...
Round 4 -- S Marvin White
I'm going to trust the coaches on this one. Most scouting services call him a project in coverage but a reliable in-the-box type player. Interviews after the pick suggest the coaches see him as an athletic presence and a potentially intimidating hitter. I've learned not to fuss too much over these picks -- Madieu Williams, Landon Johnson, Domata Peko, etc, etc. -- as they have tended to work out more often than not.
Round 5 -- QB Jeff Rowe
You knew this was coming but it's still pretty painful. Would have liked to see some LB depth in Tim Shaw or another corner here (CJ Gaddis, Tony Franklin) or TE Ben Patrick but the overall talent is so thin at this point that any defensive guy is probably a developmental talent anyway.
Expect a couple of longshot special teams guys or a WR who can stretch the field with the last three picks. Maybe Patrick is still here.
Round 4 -- S Marvin White
I'm going to trust the coaches on this one. Most scouting services call him a project in coverage but a reliable in-the-box type player. Interviews after the pick suggest the coaches see him as an athletic presence and a potentially intimidating hitter. I've learned not to fuss too much over these picks -- Madieu Williams, Landon Johnson, Domata Peko, etc, etc. -- as they have tended to work out more often than not.
Round 5 -- QB Jeff Rowe
You knew this was coming but it's still pretty painful. Would have liked to see some LB depth in Tim Shaw or another corner here (CJ Gaddis, Tony Franklin) or TE Ben Patrick but the overall talent is so thin at this point that any defensive guy is probably a developmental talent anyway.
Expect a couple of longshot special teams guys or a WR who can stretch the field with the last three picks. Maybe Patrick is still here.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Why?
NorrisB
Footballguy
He hasnt done #### since he's been here he's wasted picks failed to address the defensive line once again, and has just rode the TJ/Chad/Rudi combo to death and were pieces that were already here before we got strapped with this guy. Really I could think of a million reasons, for him not to do #### to improve our defense this offseason and waste yet another year of our potent offense is making me mad. That QB and RB picks were a friggen joke!
