Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
WOW.
Details to follow.
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Patriots deal 3rd rounder to Oakland (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ron_Mexico
- Start date
WOW.
Details to follow.
The Shizzle
Footballguy
Is it Moss?
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I hope not.....
still waiting for it to come down the pike.
still waiting for it to come down the pike.
Boston
Footballguy
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/
April 28, 2007
Pats trade 91
The Patriots have traded their third-round pick, 91st overall, to the Oakland Raiders.
The Patriots acquired the Raiders' third-round pick next year, and the Raiders seventh-round pick this year (211).
April 28, 2007
Pats trade 91
The Patriots have traded their third-round pick, 91st overall, to the Oakland Raiders.
The Patriots acquired the Raiders' third-round pick next year, and the Raiders seventh-round pick this year (211).
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Patriots traded away a 1st and 3rd this year for a 1st and 3rd next year and a 4th and 7th this year.
seems like they got poor value in both deals.
seems like they got poor value in both deals.
RavensUNFL
Footballguy
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
But the picks next year should be high.They just had too many picks this year.
2 picks for 4.....why do you think so?
Borat
Footballguy
Seriously?The 49ers will be picking higher than 28th in the first round next year. And Oakland will be drafting higher than 91st in the 3rd round next year. Plus the 4th and 7th round picks this year. How is that poor value?
San Fran is building a nice team there, I'm not sure that pick will be that high
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I concur.The Pats were loaded down with picks,and I think they did well to get somehigh picks from bad teams in nextyear's draft.
b/c a 1st next year is roughly equivalent to a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year is roughly equivalent to a 4th this year.so, they gave up a 1st and 3rd and got a 2nd, 4th, 4th, and 7th.7th is pretty pointless since those are free agent caliber players most of the time.would you rather have a 1st and 3rd or a 2nd and 2 4th round picks?Patriots started the day with 2 first round picks...and wound up with 1 pick on the entire 1st day of the draft. Just seems strange.
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Pats always seem to be ahead of the curve
when it comes to stockpiling high draft picks.
It's a beautiful thing.
when it comes to stockpiling high draft picks.
It's a beautiful thing.
RavensUNFL
Footballguy
They can't trade the 91st pick next year, since it is not even decided who will be picking in that slot. They could trade a 3rd rounder, but no telling what number in the 3rd it would be until after next season and all the positions are decided. Or am i missing something here?
Borat
Footballguy
What is the logic in this?
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I wasnt thrilled with the San Fran trade. I would have rather had #46 and #72 from SF this year than the first rounder and #110 this year although it is a reasonable gamble hoping that SF is not a playoff team. No doubt that the SF pick will be better than #28 but how much better is debateable.
I dont like this latest trade at all. I dont think anyone past the 5th round this year has a chance at making the Pats team so the 7th rounder is a waste. I would rather have had Daymeion Hughes or Michael Bush with #91 than have Oaklands pick next year.
I LOVE the 49'er draft and also think Atlanta and Carolina have done a nice job today.
I dont like this latest trade at all. I dont think anyone past the 5th round this year has a chance at making the Pats team so the 7th rounder is a waste. I would rather have had Daymeion Hughes or Michael Bush with #91 than have Oaklands pick next year.
I LOVE the 49'er draft and also think Atlanta and Carolina have done a nice job today.
value. been that way for years.2nd round player that you can get NOW is worth about the same as a player taken in the 1st round a year from now.check any trades that involve future picks. future picks are generally valued at a round later than current picks.
stanmarino13
Footballguy
I thought starting the draft with 2 1sts again next year was genius. Gives them so many different options and they should be picking higher next year then they would this year to boot. If nobody was there at the pick why reach for somebody they dont really like.
Boston
Footballguy
San Fran is up and coming but a few key injuries and that pick can get pretty high. The Niners still have some work to do before they're playing with the top teams. It's a move like this that allowed them to be in a position to get Wilfork a few years ago. The Pats have done a lot of upgrading in free agency and they still have nine picks tomorrow to add some depth. Have a good day tomorrow to go a long with adding a #1 and a #3 for next year and I'm very comfortable with what they've done so far.
Nugget
Footballguy
The flaw in that rule is that draft spots don't take up roster spots. If you don't see value in your spot, investing for next year is a logical step. Salary cap issues would also be taken into account.
I don't have a problem with it at all. If the 49ers suck again next year, they'll get a much higher pick than they would have had this year.I just thought they got less than fair value in both trades, and am surprised they were content to finish today with just 1 pick.
Boston
Footballguy
Vince Wilfork was obtained with this exact type of transaction. I don't think there's any doubt that that deal worked out in the Pats favor.
This hasn't been true for years. And when it was, it was only for early 2nd round pick -> next year's 1st and so forth. Pick #28 isn't much more valuable than an early second.
Borat
Footballguy
The fact that they make these trades are proof that the higher pick in the future is worth more. The team that's giving up the higher pick has to give up something more valuable in the future than what they're getting now, or else the other team has no reason to make the trade. It doesn't mean they're getting poor value. It just means they're willing to give up something today to get something better back a year from now.
it hasn't been true for years? how do you mean?good point on the pick being so late in the 1st that it was practically a 2nd. but, if the pick next year winds up being 16 or so, do you think it was a great move? obviously, if it becomes a top-10 pick, this deal looks great for the Pats. just wondering what it would take for you guys to think this was a good move vs bad move.
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Borat
Footballguy
It's a good move in my eyes because they are in good position to get a higher pick in a better draft a year from now.
so, let's say hypothetically the 49ers pick next year is #16 overall.would you gladly trade #28 in 2007 for #16 in 2008?it's a higher pick, but it's also a year later.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
No need to attack Rudnicki. He is not off in his logic. In the past the Pats traded out of approx. the 20th spot to Baltimore and got a current year #2 pick and a future year #1. This year the pick was #28 and they only got a 4th round pick this year to go with next years #1.
I'm not saying it is a bad deal but Dallas got the #36 pick plus Clevelands #1 next year for the #22 this year. Thats only 6 spots ahead of the Pats and Dallas got a high 2nd and Clevelands #1 which should be higher than SF's. Its not the best deal I have seen them make.
I'm not saying it is a bad deal but Dallas got the #36 pick plus Clevelands #1 next year for the #22 this year. Thats only 6 spots ahead of the Pats and Dallas got a high 2nd and Clevelands #1 which should be higher than SF's. Its not the best deal I have seen them make.
Borat
Footballguy
Sure, I'd take that. Why would I mind that it's a year later? If long-term success is the goal, an investment like that is a good one.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
gladly.especially if you're loaded down with picks this year,with a minimal number of roster spots to fill.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Who says next years draft is better?If you want to extrapolate out, the Patriots essentially traded Deion Branch in 2006 for a 1st in 2008. We keep pushing that deal out and not reaping any benefit yet.I thought the Pats had too many picks this year too but I would rather they packaged the 3rd and 4th picks to move up higher in the 3rd or to try to get into the 2nd.
Boston
Footballguy
Absolutely. With all the upgrading the Pats have already done in free agency and with nine picks tomorrow (as well as adding Merriweather) I'd gladly take that. The Pats have a chance to add some players tomorrow that don't make a dent in their salary cap as well being in a position to make a big impact in next year's draft. Also, Moss is still in play for tomorrow and a move there really changes things as well.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
If the Patriots had gotten #42 and #76 from SF instead of next years #1, they could have taken David Harris LB and Jason Hill WR. I think those are 2 good players that could help them this year.
How about giving a 4th,5th + 6th for Moss?The Patriots are trying to get him for free.
Borat
Footballguy
Deion Branch has gone from a late 1st round pick to what should be a mid 1st round pick, and what very well could be an early 1st round pick. Would anyone really be shocked if this turned into a top 10, or hell, even a top 5 pick? You wouldn't wait two years for a shot at that?
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
How many of the 9 picks tomorrow actually have a legit chance of making the Pats, 2? 3 at most. I think if they get DeOssie thats a good pick. I think it could have been really exciting to get Michael Bush. The Pats more than anyone can afford to "redshirt" Bush for a year if that is what it takes for him to return to his previous form (unless of course the Pats dont feel he will ever return to form).
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
fook yeah baby.
I'm trying to find a list of prior year draft trades, but it's been years since I've seen a 2d round pick traded straight up for a future first rounder.
Boston
Footballguy
I expect a lot of wheelin' and dealin' tomorrow (and would not be surprised at all if Moss ends up in Foxboro as well). If they end up with four guys who can contribute next year from tomorrow I'll be happy (especially since they don't put a dent in their salary cap). Add that to Merriweather, what they did in free agency and what they obtained for next year's draft and I'm real happy about this offseason both short and long term.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
You are right. The SF pick has upside. I dont expect the pick to be TOP 5 or even TOP 10 but it COULD be.The Pats had a GREAT Free Agent period and I was looking for a follow up to keep the momentum going. In comparison, the Colts traded THEIR #1 next year to get a LT and had what I think is an excellent draft.Anthony Gonzalez WRTony Ugoh OTDaymeion Hughes CBQuinn Pitcock DTThe Chargers had an impact draft getting Craig Davis WR (I liked other WR's better) and trading 4 later picks for Eric Weddle S in the 2nd round. Those were two need picks and should help this year.I also like the Jets draft with Darrelle Revis and David Harris.
usually, these trades involve a current 2nd round pick and a future 1st round pick in exchange for a current 1st round pick. if you accept the fact that a future 1st is roughly equivalent to a current 2nd, that's like trading 2 2nd round picks in a draft for a current 1st.
The prob with that rating system is it only accounts for the present time as that's when you're evaluating the trade. I think most in this thread are thinking of it's value next year at this time.I think you're replying "2007" and most are counterring with "2008"
Except that I don't. That's the point.For example, Colts traded up from #146 to #42 this year at the cost of a 1st rounder next year. By the draft value chart, the difference (434) is roughly the same as pick 15 in the second round. Surely the Colts will be drafting well below that in the first round next year.In other words, the discount factor is more like 1/2 to 2/3 of a round rather than a full round.
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like PatPatriot said, there's certainly upside with the trade as the 49ers pick next year could wind up being very high. trading a very late 1st round pick this year for an early 1st round pick next year certainly makes sense.it's probably not a big deal at all. my initial impression was just that the Patriots got a bit less in return than most teams who have made similar trades. maybe the 49ers just weren't that desperate to move up so that was all the Pats could get out of them. If the Pats didn't see anybody they liked at the #28 pick this year, than it certainly makes sense that they'd decide to take their chances on getting a better pick a year from now rather than picking someone they didn't think would help them.last year, the Bills traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick to move up to the #26 spot and select John McCargo. I guess that's a good comparison for this deal. Is a future 1st and a 4th worth more or less than a 2nd and 3rd round pick? Seems close enough, but if you treat that future 1st as being worth a current 2nd, then it seems like they got a little less (i.e., 2nd and 4th for the #28 in 2007 vs 2nd and 3rd for the #26 in 2006).
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