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Player Spotlight: Michael Vick (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2007 Player Spotlight Series

Over the course of the offseason, we will be evaluating a multitude of players at every fantasy position. One such way we go about that is through the Player Spotlight series. Think of the Spotlights as a permanent record on some of the more intriguing players for the upcoming season. Each Spotlight will be featured in an article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Michael Vick, QB, Atlanta Falcons

Player Page Link: Michael Vick Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide sustainable value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsBest of Luck and ENJOY!

 
250-410-3100 w/ 23/12 TD/INT

110 rush/900 w/2TD

Should be good for QB #2 or QB #3 this year. Vick will be taken in the 15-20 range of QBs and will produce as a top tier #1 QB. He may not be the best QB or pocket passer but he is a fantasy force that is often overlooked.

 
250-410-3100 w/ 23/12 TD/INT110 rush/900 w/2TDShould be good for QB #2 or QB #3 this year. Vick will be taken in the 15-20 range of QBs and will produce as a top tier #1 QB. He may not be the best QB or pocket passer but he is a fantasy force that is often overlooked.
Couldn't of put it better. Have him with similar #'s for '07.
 
Assuming he doesnt get suspended (which I doubt) Vick should be destined for upper teir QB1 numbers again. He improved passing wise last year and while I dont think he will ever become a top notch passing QB all he has to be is adequate for fantasy purposes. His receiving core is about the same level as last years and last year he was a top 3 fantasy QB. This year Ill put him a notch below that because I dont think 1000 rush yds is attainable again.

3000 yds, 18 tds, 13 ints, 750 yds rush, 4 tds

 
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Vick will be taken in the 15-20 range of QBs and will produce as a top tier #1 QB.
Do you really think he will be selected THAT low ?I'm thinking more like 8-12.
I've seen quite a few drafts where he went that low. In the one league I did draft in this year he went at 15. It's a dynasty, here are the QBs taken before him in order.ManningPalmerBreesBradyBulgerMcNabbRiversLeinartRomoCutlerYoungManningSmith (yes, alex)Hasselbeck
 
I think the FBG QB redraft rankings average out to having Vick as QB17. Albeit skewed a bit with Wimer ranking him 30. Which is fine, because right now who knows what'll happen.

Obviously you have to have a deent back up QB plan (and unless you have Manning/Brady/Palmer, everyone should), The upside with Vick is too hard to resist.

 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.

 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
I'm all in favor of exploiting a league's scoring system. But your league obviously does not have a traditional scoring system.
 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
I'm all in favor of exploiting a league's scoring system. But your league obviously does not have a traditional scoring system.
I always exploit the scoring. :hot: It's a 4pt per pass td, 1 pt per 25 pass, 1 pt per 10 rush, 6 pt per rush td and no negatives for turnovers, sorta normal, not quite standard.
 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
I'm all in favor of exploiting a league's scoring system. But your league obviously does not have a traditional scoring system.
Even a 'traditional' system he's finished:2006: 3rd (tied with Bulger)2005: 10th2004: 12th2003: 39th (injured all year)2002: 3rd Vick, with his rushing ability, exploits all QB scoring (unless you totally disguard QB rushing in scoring). As will be the case for Vince Young for the foreseeable future. Keith hit the nail on the head on many of his points on Vick and fantasy footballers in general.Vick's been a QB1 for 4 of the last 5 years. If I can get a possible #3 overall QB as the15th QB selected (and it looks by FBG QB rankings that QB15 is the median for Vick), I'm doing it in a heartbeat (doggate or not).
 
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The thing about Vick as your starter is that he's sittable. If you platoon him right with a McNair or a Alex Smith, and do a little homework, you should be good.

...and he's a crook!

 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
I'm all in favor of exploiting a league's scoring system. But your league obviously does not have a traditional scoring system.
Even a 'traditional' system he's finished:2006: 3rd (tied with Bulger)2005: 10th2004: 12th2003: 39th (injured all year)2002: 3rd Vick, with his rushing ability, exploits all QB scoring (unless you totally disguard QB rushing in scoring). As will be the case for Vince Young for the foreseeable future. Keith hit the nail on the head on many of his points on Vick and fantasy footballers in general.Vick's been a QB1 for 4 of the last 5 years. If I can get a possible #3 overall QB as the15th QB selected (and it looks by FBG QB rankings that QB15 is the median for Vick), I'm doing it in a heartbeat (doggate or not).
Based on MFL ADP draft info, here's Vick's career history . . .Year, Draft Position, Yearend Ranking, Result2007, 11, ?2006, 13, 4, +92005, 7, 10, -32004, 4, 12, -82003, 7, 39, -322002, 14, 3, +112001, 23, 33, -10Not exactly all wine and roses. He's had two great years and the rest of the time has not earned back his draft day cost. (Luckily for me, the only years I've had him extensively were in 02 and 06).
 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
In my league: Vick - 2006 #2 QB fantasy points 2005 #7 QB fantasy points 2004 #12QB fantasy points 2003 - injured 2002 #2 QB fantasy pointsWhy does it matter how many pass yards or TDS he has had? The Falcons are going with Mike Vick for this year and likely long into the future. Weather he wins games or not and I personally think he does win games that is not the point, he puts butts in seats, he will be the starting QB for Atlanta until his arm falls off.We are playing Fantasy Football and Mike Vick puts up excellent fantasty points and will continue to put up excellent fantasy points in Atlanta for a long time. Why should we fantasy footballers care if he's a good NFL Quarterback, I think way too many people are missing the boat on Vick. I'm not a Falcons fan or a hater, I don't care if they are 16-0 or 0-16, I don't care if Mike Vick throws alot of yards, TDS or about his completion percentage. He can be the worst NFL QB of the year but if he finishes the year as a top 5 fantasy QB, or better yet #2 behind Peyton Manning then he did his job for my team.
I'm all in favor of exploiting a league's scoring system. But your league obviously does not have a traditional scoring system.
Even a 'traditional' system he's finished:2006: 3rd (tied with Bulger)2005: 10th2004: 12th2003: 39th (injured all year)2002: 3rd Vick, with his rushing ability, exploits all QB scoring (unless you totally disguard QB rushing in scoring). As will be the case for Vince Young for the foreseeable future. Keith hit the nail on the head on many of his points on Vick and fantasy footballers in general.Vick's been a QB1 for 4 of the last 5 years. If I can get a possible #3 overall QB as the15th QB selected (and it looks by FBG QB rankings that QB15 is the median for Vick), I'm doing it in a heartbeat (doggate or not).
Based on MFL ADP draft info, here's Vick's career history . . .Year, Draft Position, Yearend Ranking, Result2007, 11, ?2006, 13, 4, +92005, 7, 10, -32004, 4, 12, -82003, 7, 39, -322002, 14, 3, +112001, 23, 33, -10Not exactly all wine and roses. He's had two great years and the rest of the time has not earned back his draft day cost. (Luckily for me, the only years I've had him extensively were in 02 and 06).
For me it's been 2,7,12,2 so it's been all wine and roses. I didn't count his rookie year in 01 cause he played in 8 games and 03 in 5 games. Even in your scoring you got him as 4,10,12,3. I don't see how people are justifying taking him as the 15th - 20th QB.
 
I would caution blind enthusiasm and say "buyer beware" with Michael Vick.

Last year his consistency was more reasonable than in previous years, but average or total points for a season are not good indicators of the roller coaster that Vick has historically given his owners. Remember that you actually have to pick whether to start him each week.

Does a 35 point performance in one week cover up the angst of a string of games with 10 points or less? Only if both the 35 point performance and the horrible performances are predictable, and you use Vick for his good games and start an alternate QB for his bad games.

The problem is that he cannot be reasonably predicted. Look at the Game Logs for any given year. Start with last year ... Would you have guessed that NO, TB, CAR would have flip-flopped like they did? Would you have guessed that against PIT, CIN, and DAL he would have played like Peyton Manning? Would you have guessed that DET, CLE, NYG and ARI would have held him down to mortal performances, and PHI would completely stifle him? The WAS and BAL games are the only ones I would have been in line with, and that means 14 games of uncertainty [nearly 90%].

 
I would caution blind enthusiasm and say "buyer beware" with Michael Vick.Last year his consistency was more reasonable than in previous years, but average or total points for a season are not good indicators of the roller coaster that Vick has historically given his owners. Remember that you actually have to pick whether to start him each week.Does a 35 point performance in one week cover up the angst of a string of games with 10 points or less? Only if both the 35 point performance and the horrible performances are predictable, and you use Vick for his good games and start an alternate QB for his bad games.The problem is that he cannot be reasonably predicted. Look at the Game Logs for any given year. Start with last year ... Would you have guessed that NO, TB, CAR would have flip-flopped like they did? Would you have guessed that against PIT, CIN, and DAL he would have played like Peyton Manning? Would you have guessed that DET, CLE, NYG and ARI would have held him down to mortal performances, and PHI would completely stifle him? The WAS and BAL games are the only ones I would have been in line with, and that means 14 games of uncertainty [nearly 90%].
You make some great points. When I look at his perofrmance during fantasy playoff weeks (14-16) I get that empty feeling. You know, that "Sick Vick" feeling. He hasn't exactly been consistent, as you pointed out but he doesn't have a great track record of playoff performance either.Add to that all of the uncertainty that comes with his off field porblems and the likely quick hook a new coach would show in a hotly publicized criminal proceeding and you see more than just some risk with him. I'll feel much better if he's on my opponents team.
 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
:kicksrock:I watched a lot of Atlanta games last year, because I had Vick as one of my QBs. IMO there are some reasons for optimism this year:1. To me, it has been obvious that the offense installed by Mora and his staff was not well suited to Vick's talents. As one example, consider how much better Vick was as a passer in his first year as a starter in 2002, the last time he played a full season under a coach other than Mora. He threw for 2936 yards (7.0 ypa), 16 TDs, and 8 interceptions (while also running for 777/8). It was also his only season with more than 388 pass attempts. I cannot imagine the new coaching staff not having a better offensive scheme for Vick.2. Last year, Atlanta had the worst receiving corps I have ever seen. Watching several of their games, it was literally unbelievable how many times they dropped balls, including quite a few TDs, and failed to make plays that were there to be made. WRs White and Jenkins are young, so there is hope they can improve. The addition of Joe Horn should be significant, both from a performance standpoint and for the mentoring he can provide for those younger WRs. I wouldn't normally expect much from Horn, but in this group, even at his age, he should make a difference.3. Despite the poor fitting offense and the poor WR play, Vick had 1 game with 3 passing TDs, and 2 games with 4 passing TDs. He had never before had more than 2 in a game. The flip side, however, is that he had 15 of his passing TDs in just 5 games, meaning he had 6 games with no passing TDs. Maybe that makes this poinit a wash... I guess what I want to say here is that, watching him, I believe he has improved his ability to throw passes at different speeds, with touch, etc.4. Also, while he will likely regress somewhat in terms of rushing yards, he had an abnormally low number of rushing TDs for a 1000 yard rusher. I'd expect him to have at least a couple more... hopefully enough to mostly offset a reduction in rushing yards.Of course, all of this assumes he is not affected by the dogfighting situation and plays 16 games.
 
Just Win Baby said:
David Yudkin said:
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
:shrug:I watched a lot of Atlanta games last year, because I had Vick as one of my QBs. IMO there are some reasons for optimism this year:1. To me, it has been obvious that the offense installed by Mora and his staff was not well suited to Vick's talents. As one example, consider how much better Vick was as a passer in his first year as a starter in 2002, the last time he played a full season under a coach other than Mora. He threw for 2936 yards (7.0 ypa), 16 TDs, and 8 interceptions (while also running for 777/8). It was also his only season with more than 388 pass attempts. I cannot imagine the new coaching staff not having a better offensive scheme for Vick.2. Last year, Atlanta had the worst receiving corps I have ever seen. Watching several of their games, it was literally unbelievable how many times they dropped balls, including quite a few TDs, and failed to make plays that were there to be made. WRs White and Jenkins are young, so there is hope they can improve. The addition of Joe Horn should be significant, both from a performance standpoint and for the mentoring he can provide for those younger WRs. I wouldn't normally expect much from Horn, but in this group, even at his age, he should make a difference.3. Despite the poor fitting offense and the poor WR play, Vick had 1 game with 3 passing TDs, and 2 games with 4 passing TDs. He had never before had more than 2 in a game. The flip side, however, is that he had 15 of his passing TDs in just 5 games, meaning he had 6 games with no passing TDs. Maybe that makes this poinit a wash... I guess what I want to say here is that, watching him, I believe he has improved his ability to throw passes at different speeds, with touch, etc.4. Also, while he will likely regress somewhat in terms of rushing yards, he had an abnormally low number of rushing TDs for a 1000 yard rusher. I'd expect him to have at least a couple more... hopefully enough to mostly offset a reduction in rushing yards.Of course, all of this assumes he is not affected by the dogfighting situation and plays 16 games.
In reading your points of why you're optimistic that he will have a great year, you fail to ackowledge the obvious. His track record alone suggests last year was a fluke and that he will more than likely regress to his past rather continue to move forward and upward. Add his off filed issues and it's easy to see why many are staying away from him. Way too much risk for a guy you are counting on to to be your QB1. Lastly, there is no evidence that a coaching change will help. We're talking basically the same personell. In years past the WR's have changed, the coaches have changed and the offensive system has changed. But the one constant and common denominator has been Vick. And like he said last year, he ain't changing.
 
Just Win Baby said:
David Yudkin said:
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
:hophead:I watched a lot of Atlanta games last year, because I had Vick as one of my QBs. IMO there are some reasons for optimism this year:1. To me, it has been obvious that the offense installed by Mora and his staff was not well suited to Vick's talents. As one example, consider how much better Vick was as a passer in his first year as a starter in 2002, the last time he played a full season under a coach other than Mora. He threw for 2936 yards (7.0 ypa), 16 TDs, and 8 interceptions (while also running for 777/8). It was also his only season with more than 388 pass attempts. I cannot imagine the new coaching staff not having a better offensive scheme for Vick.2. Last year, Atlanta had the worst receiving corps I have ever seen. Watching several of their games, it was literally unbelievable how many times they dropped balls, including quite a few TDs, and failed to make plays that were there to be made. WRs White and Jenkins are young, so there is hope they can improve. The addition of Joe Horn should be significant, both from a performance standpoint and for the mentoring he can provide for those younger WRs. I wouldn't normally expect much from Horn, but in this group, even at his age, he should make a difference.3. Despite the poor fitting offense and the poor WR play, Vick had 1 game with 3 passing TDs, and 2 games with 4 passing TDs. He had never before had more than 2 in a game. The flip side, however, is that he had 15 of his passing TDs in just 5 games, meaning he had 6 games with no passing TDs. Maybe that makes this poinit a wash... I guess what I want to say here is that, watching him, I believe he has improved his ability to throw passes at different speeds, with touch, etc.4. Also, while he will likely regress somewhat in terms of rushing yards, he had an abnormally low number of rushing TDs for a 1000 yard rusher. I'd expect him to have at least a couple more... hopefully enough to mostly offset a reduction in rushing yards.Of course, all of this assumes he is not affected by the dogfighting situation and plays 16 games.
In reading your points of why you're optimistic that he will have a great year, you fail to ackowledge the obvious. His track record alone suggests last year was a fluke and that he will more than likely regress to his past rather continue to move forward and upward. Add his off filed issues and it's easy to see why many are staying away from him. Way too much risk for a guy you are counting on to to be your QB1. Lastly, there is no evidence that a coaching change will help. We're talking basically the same personell. In years past the WR's have changed, the coaches have changed and the offensive system has changed. But the one constant and common denominator has been Vick. And like he said last year, he ain't changing.
I disagree last year was a fluke. He had his best passing year in 2002, not last year.As I specifically posted, I watched his games and noticed that he has improved as a thrower (better touch, better able to throw the ball with different pace rather than a rocket every time). So I disagree that he will most likely regress as a passer. I do think he is unlikely to rush for 1000 yards again, but I don't believe that's what you are getting at.Next, who's counting on him as a QB1? Have you looked at his ADP? I just checked Antsports, and in serious mocks over the past month, his ADP is QB15, taken in the 9th round. You can't beat that kind of upside... he was QB4 just last season.No evidence that a coaching change will help? Technically it is true that I can't prove it. But that's what I expect.Yes, essentially the same personnel, but with Joe Horn replacing Lelie. That's an upgrade, even at Horn's age. And the supporting cast was so bad last year, we should expect them to be better... nowhere to go but up.Your bias against Vick is well known, FM. You repeatedly showed that you were unable to be objective about him throughout last season, offering nothing but criticism. Yet he finished as QB4.The only thing you said that I agree with is that Vick's off field issues make him a risk. That's exactly why he offers value right now.
 
His completion percentage has fallen the last two years and his passer rating was 20th in the league last season. Unless Vick changes his run first approach when pressured he will not evolve any farther as a passer. He is going into his 7th year. IMHO he has reached his plateau.

Passing

379 atm.

207 comp.

2535 yards

16 tds

11 ints

Rushing

828 yds

5 tds

 
This is a tough one, but I'm going to say

4.5-year sentence, $250,000 fine, first parole hearing after 16 months served, released on parole for good behavior, signs with Dolphins for veterans minimum.

 
I love football.

I can't stand Michael Vick as a quarterback.

2200

49%

15 TDs

15 Ints

605 rush

3 TDs

He's a superior athlete with no quarterbacking ability.

He sure can wing it with his cannon arm and run it with is speedy legs.

But he couldnt draw up an offensive game plan or make continually beneficial adjustments if his life depended on it.

And whatever you do, dont change the coaches or the playbook, because it takes him more then a year to figure it out. Errrp... Atlanta just did.

 
Unless Vick changes his run first approach when pressured he will not evolve any farther as a passer.
disagree completely.i know this sounds weird, but i don't think Vick runs enough. i've watched him a lot, and time and time again i see him try to stay in the pocket too long (5-6 seconds) and take an ugly sack. THAT'S where the injury risk lies to me, having DLs roll into his ankles. when he's in the open field, he seems a lot more in control of the hits he takes.i think the instinct to look, look, and run has been incorrectly beaten out of him the last three years. i don't know what Petrino will do, but hope he takes the reigns off and lets him run.
 
For running a criminal gambling and dog-fighting ring out of his house, Michael Vick is going to going to get his head mounted on the wall of the new commissioner's office. I believe he won't play a down this year.

0/0/0/0

 
Vick will be taken in the 15-20 range of QBs and will produce as a top tier #1 QB.
Do you really think he will be selected THAT low ?I'm thinking more like 8-12.
I've seen quite a few drafts where he went that low. In the one league I did draft in this year he went at 15. It's a dynasty, here are the QBs taken before him in order.ManningPalmerBreesBradyBulgerMcNabbRiversLeinartRomoCutlerYoungManningSmith (yes, alex)Hasselbeck
I honestly think this is more the exception rather than the rule.I recently traded Eli Manning for him in one of my leagues.I would think the majority of the ADP's would place Vick in the lower halfof the top 10 QBs.
 
Most of the June and early July's ADPs can be used as representative of the player's draft position, but not Michael Vick. His current ADP, FBG has him at QB12 and have read other even lower numbers on this thread is NOT indicative of what his ADP will be in August in most drafts. At that time, we should (maybe) know whether he will be suspended or not. If he has not been suspended, and especially if he has been cleared, then his ADP will rise to a minimum of 7 to 10.

Undoubtedly, he is value at QB 15 or later, even if not yet cleared because in most systems his running overcomes his passing shortfalls. Secondly, there is some optimism that the RBs will be further stressed in the passing game and Jerious Norwood is lightning in a bottle in the open field so he has the potential to take a couple of swing passes 50 yards or more to the house.

The last three years, Michael Vick has passed for 2313 in 15 games, 2412 in 15 games, and 2474 in 16 games. Fairly consistent averages of 154, 160, and 154 yards per game. This is because Atlanta is a run first team, even more than Vick being inaccurate. Petrino has expressed an indication that he desires to be a power running team, which should at least continue the focus on running the ball. Atlanta RBs had 416 attempts in 05 and 405 in 06, but when you add the QB rushing attempts, they had as a team 527 carries in 05 and 535 carries in 06.

I think a passing game that involves short routes by the RBs will help Michael Vick with his decision making process and allow him a longer time to decide whether or not to run, then dump off to the RBs. I think that type of offense will fit his style better. Either he uses his arm strength and flings long bombs or there is more option with short receivers and easier passes. I also think that Joe Horn will be invaluable to the receiving corp as a leader and show them and Vick how to approach every practice and every game. Horn probably will not fantasy numbers himself, but he will help Vick and the other Falcon WRs!

First off, I am not sure if he will be indicted or not, and if he will be suspended or not regardless of whether he is indicted. My assumption is that he plays and that his ADP is around QB8. I think he will be a benefactor to teams selecting him then or later.

Michael Vick 220 completions 380 attempts (57.9%) 2600 yards (6.84 ypa) 19 TDs and 15 ints adding 120 rushes for 980 yards and 6 TDs

 
The other thing I notice in some of these projections is that from what I have read, the new staff wants to try to get Vick to run less not more. Yet several people have Vick at still running as often as last year. Are people just thinking that Vick will be the same old Vick and still getting 120+ rushing attempts?

 
The other thing I notice in some of these projections is that from what I have read, the new staff wants to try to get Vick to run less not more. Yet several people have Vick at still running as often as last year. Are people just thinking that Vick will be the same old Vick and still getting 120+ rushing attempts?
I think that Vick has the best opportunity to be successful, either throwing long routes or having options and throwing on the run. If their plan is truly to force Vick to not run, then I think that he will be sacked even more than in the past as he has great trouble committing to a particular throw once he is committed to the pocket. As long as he is outside, he seems to make better judgments about whether to throw or run.I hope that Petrino and his staff will find an offense that Vick is comfortable with. I can't imagine that being an offense where they want him to not run.I am not an Atlanta homer and only watch them two or three times a year though.
 
Just an observation that in a draft I just completed Vick was the 14th QB chosen.

I picked him up as a back up to Kitna.

I see a slight upgrade in his receivers just because Horn has joined the team and can actually run proper routes and hang on to the ball when its thrown to him. True he's not at the apex of his career but its a mrked inprovement on the WR Vick had to throw to last year. Anyway along with Crumpler it at least gives Vick 2 solid targets. I am thinking he'll have above his average in yardage and that he should hit 20 to 24 passing TD's this year.

 
The thing about Vick as your starter is that he's sittable. If you platoon him right with a McNair or a Alex Smith, and do a little homework, you should be good....and he's a crook!
He can be sweet and frustrating for an owner though. I had him and Carson last year, and Carson got off to a slow start and Vick was playing great. Because his scoring is so unorthodox its hard to tell which weeks will be big for him. You can't just go off of that the opposition has a bad pass defense becuase thats only half the point he gets. Maybe I'm just not very good at it, but I missed out on a good bit of points in my platoon attempt last season with him getting sporatic during the playoff run last year.
 
The thing about Vick as your starter is that he's sittable. If you platoon him right with a McNair or a Alex Smith, and do a little homework, you should be good....and he's a crook!
He can be sweet and frustrating for an owner though. I had him and Carson last year, and Carson got off to a slow start and Vick was playing great. Because his scoring is so unorthodox its hard to tell which weeks will be big for him. You can't just go off of that the opposition has a bad pass defense becuase thats only half the point he gets. Maybe I'm just not very good at it, but I missed out on a good bit of points in my platoon attempt last season with him getting sporatic during the playoff run last year.
This is true. I had Vick as my starter and picked up Romo as a free agent as soon as he took over for Bledsoe. Of course, I wasn't sold on Romo for a few games, and then I started him in his first bad game while Vick blew up on my bench. I think I started the wrong one of them almost every game the rest of the way.
 
I think I started the wrong one of them almost every game the rest of the way.
This is exactly my point up above. Vick is completely unpredictable when trying to predict which team to play him against. You have Peyton Manning and you start him each week. You have Vick and if you start him each week, then you'll gone down in a heap of smoke and ashes.
 
I think I started the wrong one of them almost every game the rest of the way.
This is exactly my point up above. Vick is completely unpredictable when trying to predict which team to play him against. You have Peyton Manning and you start him each week. You have Vick and if you start him each week, then you'll gone down in a heap of smoke and ashes.
Well, to counter that, I started Vick most of the season, and despite mostly choosing the wrong one between him and Romo after Romo emerged, I won the championship. In the first place, taking Vick as my QB1 allowed me to build a very good team at other positions.
 
He can be sweet and frustrating for an owner though
the Vick owner in one of my dynasty leagues got frustrated with him last year. I was able to trade Garrard for Vick. this was when Garrard with starting for J-Ville
Frustrated that he broke the QB rushing record?? Frustrated that he was a top 5-10 QB in a regular league? LOL. Frustrated with what? Vick isn't anymore volatile in Points per game than the next QB.Steal of a deal.
 
FWIW, I expect the news surrounding the ongoing dogfighting investigation to break sometime late in training camp or possibly even later - sometime during the regular season. When I look at how the various state authorities/Feds/USDA handled other recent investigations and prosectutions of dogfighting rings (see the discussion of a Dayton Ohio case in the article linked below), they ended up pursuing charges against a multitude of miscreants for drug violations/illegal gambling, etc in addition to the dogfighting violations. See this excellent article by Lester Munson (a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years) on ESPN for a reasoned and articulate breakdown of the federal jeopardy Vick faces: article

In other words, it appears to me that dogfighting cases are very complex because there is not just illegal dogfighting activity going on in the dogfighting subculture - there is also other criminal activity that is linked to drug dealing and illegal gambling, including money laundering. In my opinion, the Feds are scrutinizing not only the VA property, but also the Mike Vick K9 Kennels dog breeding business (as a front for money laundering of illegal gambling transactions), his income tax returns, and his other property holdings and investments - numerous allegations of 25K+ bets placed by Vick on the alleged dogfights say to me that the hook on which the government is probably going to hang their case is the possible illegal gambling activity and the steps which were presumably taken to hide this activity.

I may be wrong about when the Feds unveil their evidence and start issuing charges in this case, and it is within the realm of possibility that Mike Vick will be never charged (or not charged during 2007) or if charged, exonerated. However, without even knowing whether he is going to be charged under HR 137 - which provides for the following penalties if convicted (quoting from the Munson article linked above): "Now, though, the recently strengthened federal law provides draconian penalties for people involved in dogfighting. There's a jail term of three years, and there's a fine of $250,000. And if that isn't enough, those penalties are per dog. Remember, the police confiscated 66 dogs in the raid on Vick's property." - I think that selecting Michael Vick in a fantasy draft right now is an enormous risk, especially considering commissioner Goodell's penchant for handing out suspensions.

Also, I would not be surprised to see the Falcons place Vick on paid leave to conduct his defense if he is charged with violations of HR 137 and/or other federal statutes, with some sort of press statement along the lines of "The Falcons believe that every American is innocent until proven guilty when charged with a crime, no matter how serious the alleged offense may be. However, we believe that given the serious nature of these charges and the importance of conducting a vigorous defense on Michael's part, it is in Michael's best interest to concentrate on his legal situation with his defense counsels..."

I wouldn't draft Vick right now, and I think there is a high probability that he'll miss at least a significant portion of the NFL season - thus my ranking of him and Joey Harrington as of July 5th, 2007.

My .02.

 
I don't know, it's kinda hard to play at full capacity when you are in court all the time, possibly behind bars. If he does play, it will be a down year because of all of the distractions. Personally I hope he doesn't play a down all year so

0 PaTD's

0 RuTD's

0 PaYds

0 RuYds

25 Court appearnces

5yr in prison.

 
I really don't have time to get into a big debate on Vick, but bear in mind that playing in all but a couple of games the past 3 seasons Vick has averaged 2400 passing yards per year and last year he finally hit (exaclty) 20 TD passes.
:hifive:I watched a lot of Atlanta games last year, because I had Vick as one of my QBs. IMO there are some reasons for optimism this year:1. To me, it has been obvious that the offense installed by Mora and his staff was not well suited to Vick's talents. As one example, consider how much better Vick was as a passer in his first year as a starter in 2002, the last time he played a full season under a coach other than Mora. He threw for 2936 yards (7.0 ypa), 16 TDs, and 8 interceptions (while also running for 777/8). It was also his only season with more than 388 pass attempts. I cannot imagine the new coaching staff not having a better offensive scheme for Vick.2. Last year, Atlanta had the worst receiving corps I have ever seen. Watching several of their games, it was literally unbelievable how many times they dropped balls, including quite a few TDs, and failed to make plays that were there to be made. WRs White and Jenkins are young, so there is hope they can improve. The addition of Joe Horn should be significant, both from a performance standpoint and for the mentoring he can provide for those younger WRs. I wouldn't normally expect much from Horn, but in this group, even at his age, he should make a difference.3. Despite the poor fitting offense and the poor WR play, Vick had 1 game with 3 passing TDs, and 2 games with 4 passing TDs. He had never before had more than 2 in a game. The flip side, however, is that he had 15 of his passing TDs in just 5 games, meaning he had 6 games with no passing TDs. Maybe that makes this poinit a wash... I guess what I want to say here is that, watching him, I believe he has improved his ability to throw passes at different speeds, with touch, etc.4. Also, while he will likely regress somewhat in terms of rushing yards, he had an abnormally low number of rushing TDs for a 1000 yard rusher. I'd expect him to have at least a couple more... hopefully enough to mostly offset a reduction in rushing yards.Of course, all of this assumes he is not affected by the dogfighting situation and plays 16 games.
In reading your points of why you're optimistic that he will have a great year, you fail to ackowledge the obvious. His track record alone suggests last year was a fluke and that he will more than likely regress to his past rather continue to move forward and upward. Add his off filed issues and it's easy to see why many are staying away from him. Way too much risk for a guy you are counting on to to be your QB1. Lastly, there is no evidence that a coaching change will help. We're talking basically the same personell. In years past the WR's have changed, the coaches have changed and the offensive system has changed. But the one constant and common denominator has been Vick. And like he said last year, he ain't changing.
I disagree last year was a fluke. He had his best passing year in 2002, not last year.As I specifically posted, I watched his games and noticed that he has improved as a thrower (better touch, better able to throw the ball with different pace rather than a rocket every time). So I disagree that he will most likely regress as a passer. I do think he is unlikely to rush for 1000 yards again, but I don't believe that's what you are getting at.Next, who's counting on him as a QB1? Have you looked at his ADP? I just checked Antsports, and in serious mocks over the past month, his ADP is QB15, taken in the 9th round. You can't beat that kind of upside... he was QB4 just last season.No evidence that a coaching change will help? Technically it is true that I can't prove it. But that's what I expect.Yes, essentially the same personnel, but with Joe Horn replacing Lelie. That's an upgrade, even at Horn's age. And the supporting cast was so bad last year, we should expect them to be better... nowhere to go but up.Your bias against Vick is well known, FM. You repeatedly showed that you were unable to be objective about him throughout last season, offering nothing but criticism. Yet he finished as QB4.The only thing you said that I agree with is that Vick's off field issues make him a risk. That's exactly why he offers value right now.
Well I guess if you're serious that you think his real ADP is QB15 then you make a good point. But most know that's an abberation due to the dog investigation. As for my criticism last year, it was valid and still is. If you recall part of what I criticized was for his inconsistency and his playoff (fantasy) numbers. So QB4 is fine for some but I prefer someone that is more consistent and that performs well in the fantasy playoffs. Getting a week of bigtime numbers 1 week and losing your shirt the other two will usually send a team packing. In one of my dynasty leagues his scoring was:Week 14 6.25 pts. (Probably out of playoffs here).Week 15 39.45 pts. (1 week too late).Week 16 4.65 pts. (More inconsistency).If this is what you call good then more power to you. It's not very good to me. But that's just me.
 
My question on all this is what happens to Vick and on what timeline. If Vick is charged or indicted, is that enough for the league to suspend him or the team to put him on leave. It seems like the other bad boys in the league were punished AFTER they went to court and either pleaded to lesser chanrges or were convicted.

If that is the case and I were Vick's legal team, I think it's entirely possible that he could get his court date and subsequent proceedings put off until after the season is over. Assuming the Falcons don't make the playoffs, that would mean January. That's less than 6 months away and there are currently no charges or anything scheduled on the horizon. If something broke once the season started, then it would be a matter of 3 months til the season was over.

So the $64,000 question is will the league impose any sanctions before Vick has had his day in court. I'm sure they could try to get away with it based on "conduct unbecoming" clauses, but I'm not sure the NFLPA would let that slide. Until Vick is actually charged with a crime I really don't see the league doing anything.

 
For running a criminal gambling and dog-fighting ring out of his house, Michael Vick is going to going to get his head mounted on the wall of the new commissioner's office. I believe he won't play a down this year.0/0/0/0
I don't know, it's kinda hard to play at full capacity when you are in court all the time, possibly behind bars. If he does play, it will be a down year because of all of the distractions. Personally I hope he doesn't play a down all year so0 PaTD's0 RuTD's0 PaYds0 RuYds25 Court appearnces5yr in prison.
good info here
 
Michael Vick can't get suspended if he isn't convicted and he can't get convicted if he isn't indicted. If that happens with his money he can any lawyer he wants to defend him and delay any possible trial until next year at the earliest. Therefore I don't worry about him in 2007.

I'd compare it to the Kobe Bryant situation a couple of years back. He actually was indicted and still played. It's not the same thing exactly but I don't think even Michael Vick being arrested affects him in 2007. Unfortunately most people can't or won't see that so he'll be the steal of the draft.

 
I would caution blind enthusiasm and say "buyer beware" with Michael Vick.Last year his consistency was more reasonable than in previous years, but average or total points for a season are not good indicators of the roller coaster that Vick has historically given his owners. Remember that you actually have to pick whether to start him each week.Does a 35 point performance in one week cover up the angst of a string of games with 10 points or less? Only if both the 35 point performance and the horrible performances are predictable, and you use Vick for his good games and start an alternate QB for his bad games.The problem is that he cannot be reasonably predicted. Look at the Game Logs for any given year. Start with last year ... Would you have guessed that NO, TB, CAR would have flip-flopped like they did? Would you have guessed that against PIT, CIN, and DAL he would have played like Peyton Manning? Would you have guessed that DET, CLE, NYG and ARI would have held him down to mortal performances, and PHI would completely stifle him? The WAS and BAL games are the only ones I would have been in line with, and that means 14 games of uncertainty [nearly 90%].
This is exactly why I've never drafted him and never will. There is one trait that I want in my QB, and most QBs have it: consistency. Whether I go after a Manning or Palmer early, or wait until the later rounds for Bulger, Romo, Eli, Rivers, etc, I pretty much know what I'm getting. Usually between 200 and 300 yards and a TD or two, maybe a pick or two. Manning and Palmer, and McNabb when he's healthy are good for more 300+ yard and 3+ TD games, thus they get drafted sooner. The middle tier guys are more likely to turn in 150 yards and 1 TD with 2 picks when facing a tough matchup, but often that can be predicted and you can start your backup who has a better matchup. And even those mediocre guys come thru with a modent point total most weeks. Not so with Vick. It is impossible to predict when he will do well and when he will throw 3 picks and no TDs, so you need to start him every week to take advantage of his monster games. You may win those by a ton, but when your opponents' QBs are chugging along at 10-15 fpts/week, you are likely to lose those weeks when Vick scores 3 points for you. And when you lose by a couple of points, that can be really, really frustrating. No thanks.On top of that you have a federal investigation, a new HC, and the ever-present possibility of injury because of his risky play. Finneran is gone for another year, and now you have the very fragile Joe Horn in the mix. His best target is probably still Crumpler. In those games where defenses are able to contain his running, and it does happen, Vick is pretty much worthless.For me, it all adds up to a 10th round pick or later, and I'm always happy when someone else burns a 5th round or even earlier pick on him.
 
Well I guess if you're serious that you think his real ADP is QB15 then you make a good point. But most know that's an abberation due to the dog investigation.
I guess you are implying his ADP will rise. I can see a few scenarios here.1. It becomes clear that Vick won't be charged at all, or at least that the situation will not resolve itself until after the season. In this case, I agree his ADP will rise. But I doubt it will rise above Peyton Manning, Palmer, Brady, Bulger, and Brees, and maybe not above McNabb, depending on his health, or Young. So if it rises to QB8 or so, there is still potential value there, as evidenced by his QB4 finish just last season. I agree that if it rises above QB8 or so, there is no value there.2. It becomes clear that Vick will be charged and/or that he will be given time off by the Falcons, as suggested by Mark Wimer above. In this case, I expect his ADP to plunge from QB15 into the 20s or even beyond, depending on the likelihood of him playing any games and how many.3. The situation remains unclear, like it is today. I do not think his ADP will rise. I think people will continue taking him in the QB15 range, give or take, because of the risk associated with not knowing how his situation will be resolved. In this case, he will be a boom/bust pick who could make your season. No one would draft him and him alone to be their QB1 in this case. But if this is the case at draft time and his situation later evolves into #1 above, whoever gets him as a QB2 may have gotten the SOD. On the other hand, if it evolves into #2 above, not too much was lost at that price.Which of these do you expect? Or do you see a different scenario?
As for my criticism last year, it was valid and still is.
Debatable. But we beat that horse to death already, and I don't feel like doing it again. And there is no point, because we already know you won't change your mind about him.
If you recall part of what I criticized was for his inconsistency and his playoff (fantasy) numbers. So QB4 is fine for some but I prefer someone that is more consistent and that performs well in the fantasy playoffs. Getting a week of bigtime numbers 1 week and losing your shirt the other two will usually send a team packing. In one of my dynasty leagues his scoring was:Week 14 6.25 pts. (Probably out of playoffs here).Week 15 39.45 pts. (1 week too late).Week 16 4.65 pts. (More inconsistency).If this is what you call good then more power to you. It's not very good to me. But that's just me.
Since it seems you may have a crystal ball, please post exactly which fantasy QBs will play well in weeks 14-16 this year. I'm sure eveyone here will appreciate knowing. TIA.
 
He can be sweet and frustrating for an owner though
the Vick owner in one of my dynasty leagues got frustrated with him last year. I was able to trade Garrard for Vick. this was when Garrard with starting for J-Ville
Frustrated that he broke the QB rushing record?? Frustrated that he was a top 5-10 QB in a regular league? LOL. Frustrated with what? Vick isn't anymore volatile in Points per game than the next QB.Steal of a deal.
yeah the other guy did not think it thru. he traded him for a QB that does not even start :hot:
 
Frustrated that he broke the QB rushing record?? Frustrated that he was a top 5-10 QB in a regular league? LOL. Frustrated with what? Vick isn't anymore volatile in Points per game than the next QB.Steal of a deal.
Interesting.Was just looking at Vick's fantasy points by week for last season. Some monster games, some mediocre ones, a few below average, and two horrible ones, which occurred during fantasy playoffs. Week Points1 182 223 104 135 bye6 127 258 299 910 911 1412 1913 1814 315 3016 1Scoring for my league:Passing TD 1-19 yards: 4Passing TD 20+ yards: 5INT/Fum lost: -3Rushing: 10 yards/pt, 6pts/TDIf you started him week 14, you probably didn't make it to week 15. And if I had him, I would probably have started him week 14, because that game was against the Buccaneers, a team he torched in week 2. So again, inconsistency at a position where you can least afford it. I don't have these stats for previous years but I recall '05 being even worse. With a new HC this year, who knows? Vick is not a "steal" for me in any round of the draft. Whether I'm targeting a stud QB early or waiting for a middle tier guy, I'll take just about anyone else over Vick because I'll know what kind of performance I can count on and I can make start/bench decisions that have a much better chance of being right. Since Vick is almost equally likely to have a monster game or an absolute disaster in any given week, regardless of opponent, you are stuck starting him and hoping for the best. So you could win your matchup by 20 points or lose by 20. That hurts a lot when most other QBs score closer to a weekly average -- your opponents' QBs are very likely to outscore yours in those off weeks. In a competitive league, that is a huge liability.
 
Frustrated that he broke the QB rushing record?? Frustrated that he was a top 5-10 QB in a regular league? LOL. Frustrated with what? Vick isn't anymore volatile in Points per game than the next QB.Steal of a deal.
Interesting.Was just looking at Vick's fantasy points by week for last season. Some monster games, some mediocre ones, a few below average, and two horrible ones, which occurred during fantasy playoffs. Week Points1 182 223 104 135 bye6 127 258 299 910 911 1412 1913 1814 315 3016 1Scoring for my league:Passing TD 1-19 yards: 4Passing TD 20+ yards: 5INT/Fum lost: -3Rushing: 10 yards/pt, 6pts/TDIf you started him week 14, you probably didn't make it to week 15. And if I had him, I would probably have started him week 14, because that game was against the Buccaneers, a team he torched in week 2. So again, inconsistency at a position where you can least afford it. I don't have these stats for previous years but I recall '05 being even worse. With a new HC this year, who knows? Vick is not a "steal" for me in any round of the draft. Whether I'm targeting a stud QB early or waiting for a middle tier guy, I'll take just about anyone else over Vick because I'll know what kind of performance I can count on and I can make start/bench decisions that have a much better chance of being right. Since Vick is almost equally likely to have a monster game or an absolute disaster in any given week, regardless of opponent, you are stuck starting him and hoping for the best. So you could win your matchup by 20 points or lose by 20. That hurts a lot when most other QBs score closer to a weekly average -- your opponents' QBs are very likely to outscore yours in those off weeks. In a competitive league, that is a huge liability.
Its thinking like this which causes Vick to have good value every single year. For every argument that Vick is "inconsistent", which I don't think is true, why do people never seem to focus on the upside of the monster games he has where he will win weeks for you? Last year, Vick was the 4th-7th ranked QB and yet people are still not satisfied because of this urban legend that Vick is "inconsistent". Vick is no more inconsistent than other QBs. His passing yardage may fluctuate game to game or maybe he only gets 1 TD, but you need to remember that his rushing yards do count help balance it out.Compare Vick to other QBs...Brady: Games with 4 pts, 7 ptsRivers: Games with 2 pts, 5 pts, 9 ptsBulger: Games with 6 pts, 6ptsBrees: Games with 2 pts, 9 pts, 9 ptsAll QBs have some clunker games, but for some reason Vick is chastised so much more. But, as long as people continue to eat up this "inconsistency" label Vick gets, like Shaun Alexander got a few years back, then all the better for me who will find value in drafting him.
 
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Well I guess if you're serious that you think his real ADP is QB15 then you make a good point. But most know that's an abberation due to the dog investigation.
I guess you are implying his ADP will rise. I can see a few scenarios here.1. It becomes clear that Vick won't be charged at all, or at least that the situation will not resolve itself until after the season. In this case, I agree his ADP will rise. But I doubt it will rise above Peyton Manning, Palmer, Brady, Bulger, and Brees, and maybe not above McNabb, depending on his health, or Young. So if it rises to QB8 or so, there is still potential value there, as evidenced by his QB4 finish just last season. I agree that if it rises above QB8 or so, there is no value there.2. It becomes clear that Vick will be charged and/or that he will be given time off by the Falcons, as suggested by Mark Wimer above. In this case, I expect his ADP to plunge from QB15 into the 20s or even beyond, depending on the likelihood of him playing any games and how many.3. The situation remains unclear, like it is today. I do not think his ADP will rise. I think people will continue taking him in the QB15 range, give or take, because of the risk associated with not knowing how his situation will be resolved. In this case, he will be a boom/bust pick who could make your season. No one would draft him and him alone to be their QB1 in this case. But if this is the case at draft time and his situation later evolves into #1 above, whoever gets him as a QB2 may have gotten the SOD. On the other hand, if it evolves into #2 above, not too much was lost at that price.Which of these do you expect? Or do you see a different scenario?
As for my criticism last year, it was valid and still is.
Debatable. But we beat that horse to death already, and I don't feel like doing it again. And there is no point, because we already know you won't change your mind about him.
If you recall part of what I criticized was for his inconsistency and his playoff (fantasy) numbers. So QB4 is fine for some but I prefer someone that is more consistent and that performs well in the fantasy playoffs. Getting a week of bigtime numbers 1 week and losing your shirt the other two will usually send a team packing. In one of my dynasty leagues his scoring was:Week 14 6.25 pts. (Probably out of playoffs here).Week 15 39.45 pts. (1 week too late).Week 16 4.65 pts. (More inconsistency).If this is what you call good then more power to you. It's not very good to me. But that's just me.
Since it seems you may have a crystal ball, please post exactly which fantasy QBs will play well in weeks 14-16 this year. I'm sure eveyone here will appreciate knowing. TIA.
I'll close this debate by saying past performance is a great indicator of future expectations. In all fairness to the thread I will stop posting on this. As you said, there's noting that will change my mind. And clearly nothing willl change yours. Fair enough. I can live with it.
 
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