My two cent rant about how the Chargers are falling. (1 Viewer)

Coming from a Charger homer here – my two cent rant about why I don’t like Norv anymore.

When the Chargers parted ways with Marty - I was ecstatic. I felt that Marty out coached himself in the playoff game against NE and would never get the stigma of being a playoff loser off his resume.

When they went out and got Norv Turner I thought it was a decent move.

1. Norv has done wonders with developing QB's (Troy Aikman, Alex Smith)

2. The system in San Diego is pretty much the same system he runs.

3. Norv got the short end of the stick with all his previous jobs. Redskins Snyder fouled things up in Washington and the Raiders....well they are the Raiders.

4. Seems like AJ Smith wants to be the media guy and Norv is content to just be the coach. Perfect fit I thought.

Well now - after seeing how the Chargers have come out in their 1st two games - I have to say I am totally disgusted with Norv and the whole attitude of the Chargers.

1. A botched punt basically helped the Chargers get past the Bears in week 1. Add in the missed called when Neal took out Mike Brown with a close line - the Chargers got lucky.

- What I did see - the beginning of the Chargers and especially P. Rivers acting like big babies. When the Bears got away with an off sides on the goal line - I haven’t see a grown man cry like Rivers did since Adam Morrison lost in the NCAA’s. The call was made – get over it and move on. Crying about isn’t going to change the ref’s mind.

2. All week long before the Pats game it seemed like the Chargers talked smack about getting even with the Pats. LT making reference to “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” or how Merriman was looking to get revenge after the “low life” Pats mocked his dance after last years playoff game.

3. They come out on National TV and look pathetic – on both sides of the ball. One defense they can’t cover my grandma and they failed to put any pressure on Brady. On offense they made huge blunders and seem to have no direction as to what they want to accomplish in their game plan. Establish the run? Work the short passes? Hit a home run? Nothing clicked and nothing worked to help lead to more offense.

Norv should have stepped in and told his team to shut the hell up and let the play of the field do all the talking. Norv needs to learn to be the bad cop – not the good cop. That is why Norv is a great offensive coordinator – he is a great good cop. He is used to the head coach tearing the QB a new one then going over and coddling the players.

When Phillip Rivers goes out and on the very 1st offensive play of the game – throws an INT. Norv should have been in his face. Do you think Bill Cowher would have been babying his QB after a stupid play like that? How about Mike Nolan ripping the play of Alex Smith even though they are 2-0. Norv needs to step it up and make a statement.

Norv also needs to decide what they are going to do on offense. Establish the run and work in the deep ball? Come out throwing to then work in the run? Seems like they have no identity on offense right now.

If the Chargers don’t get their act together they are going to lose in Green Bay this weekend.

Just my two cent rant and rave about the Chargers and how fast they are falling.

Welcome to the party, pal. -Redskins fans

jesseasi said:

3. Norv got the short end of the stick with all his previous jobs. Redskins Snyder fouled things up in Washington and the Raiders....well they are the Raiders.

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Oh, and Snyder never wanted him but didn't feel he could fire him so soon before the 1999 season (even after the '98 team started 0-7), so Norv (undeservedly) got another 29 games as the head coach before he was axed for good. Snyder's screwed plenty of things up, particularly early on, but Norv wasn't one of them.

Have faith in your organization. Marty is a great regular season coach and a pariah in the playoffs. Be happy your organization recognized that and dealt with it. While I would agree with the critics who maintain that Norv has yet to prove himself, it is far too soon for a true Chargers fan to bolt.

- A Patriots fan (Belichick = Bad Cop, and yet his players idolize him - maybe a little less after camera gate, but you saw the love during the game)

i thought the norv hiring was horrible. if you already know how to run his offense, what do you need him for? that's the only thing he's good at.

Norv is an offensive coordinator. Always has, always will be. Not everyone can be the President. Some guys are just cut out to be the vice president. Norv = Dan Quayle.

Football OUtsiders has them winning ..about 8 games this year, i believe.

Norv Turner is #48 all-time in terms of number of games as a head coach (143).

Of the 47 coaches ahead of him, 46 have better career winning percentages. (The lone exception is Norm Van Brocklin). Sam Wyche, Dave Wannstedt, Ted Marchibroda all did better, to name a few luminaries.

Of the 47 ahead, 43 have more playoff wins than Turner (1).

CalBear said:

Norv Turner is #48 all-time in terms of number of games as a head coach (143).

Of the 47 coaches ahead of him, 46 have better career winning percentages. (The lone exception is Norm Van Brocklin). Sam Wyche, Dave Wannstedt, Ted Marchibroda all did better, to name a few luminaries.

Of the 47 ahead, 43 have more playoff wins than Turner (1).

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Still, he's gotten a raw deal and deserves a 2nd 3rd 4th chance.

jesseasi said:

Coming from a Charger homer here – my two cent rant about why I don’t like Norv anymore.

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That's your first mistake, starting off liking him. I'm a huge Chargers fan but the minute they fired Marty I lost all faith. Starting your coach search after everyone else has hired their leaves you with...garbage. Marty may have the playoff stigma but his teams are at least ready to play in week 1. On top of that, AJ made it hard on Marty and any player labeled a "Marty guy" throughout their last few years. Firing him after a bunch of other coaches had been hired and grabbing a head coach with a terrible record is just plain dumb. I seriously believe that AJ's mission is to get the Chargers out of SD and he couldn't have hired a better coach to do it.

LT needs to step up on and off the field. He seemed truly humble after the game, hopefully that gets him fired up and can lead the team in spite of Norv's "coaching".

Are people seriously writing off the Chargers already? They're 1-1 after two games. The first was against one of the top defenses in the league, and they wore that team down with the run by never going away from it. They defended extremely well against an admittedly below average offense, and won by double digits. The next week, they played an emotionally charged game against a team that has looked unstoppable so far. I don't think they will win the Superbowl, but they're still in the top tier in the AFC.

That said, I didn't understand the Norv Turner hiring, either. Norv is no more a playoff coach than Schottenheimer, and he's not as good a regular season coach. Unless the team seemed like it was going to bail on Marty - which I guess is possible, if they were reading the press clippings - it's hard to imagine them considering this an upgrade. I feel bad that the perfect storm of the available coaching talent and the top two teams in the AFC seem likely to waste Tomlinson's best years, but this is one of the reasons you can't judge a true top player on Superbowls.

I am holding my breath for Cowher next year. I think if he were to come out of retirement - the Chargers would be the perfect place. Beautiful sunny San Diego with a wealth of talent.

Do you think Bill reads these forums? Hey BILL - come to San Diego!

jesseasi said:

especially P. Rivers acting like big babies. When the Bears got away with an off sides on the goal line - I haven’t see a grown man cry like Rivers did since Adam Morrison lost in the NCAA’s. The call was made – get over it and move on. Crying about isn’t going to change the ref’s mind.

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I'm not going to disagree with the rest of it (though I still think they'll have a winning record this year) - Rivers was like this already. He did this last year too. I mentioned it then and other people told me, well that's just how he is and most of them were happy that he "cared" so much. I personally think this is a problem he really needs to correct. Part of being a leader (requisite for the QB position) is keeping your cool even in the worst of situations. Throwing tantrums is about as far from that as you can get.I will agree that Norv isn't the guy who's going to correct that problem though. He's not a strong disciplinarian (to put it extremely mildly). If Phil wants to be good, and I mean take control of a game be the man kind of good that top QBs have to be, he needs to get a grip on this.There a few ways the Chargers can go right now. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season shakes out. I would guess Norv is basically on a conditional one year deal (regardless of his actual contract) - if they don't get a playoff win I think he'll be shown the door and the Chargers will act early to get a real HC in there for 2008. I'd like to see Cowher, but it doesn't sound like he wants to leave NC. I think the other Bill currently without a job would be a more likely candidate - I think he's mentioned wanting to coach LaDainian a few times. I think he'd be able to get these guys somewhere, despite his less than stellar Cowboys tenure. I don't know what the particulars of getting him out of retirement would be vis a vi his prior contract with the Cowboys.

Gr00vus said:

jesseasi said:

especially P. Rivers acting like big babies. When the Bears got away with an off sides on the goal line - I haven’t see a grown man cry like Rivers did since Adam Morrison lost in the NCAA’s. The call was made – get over it and move on. Crying about isn’t going to change the ref’s mind.

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I'm not going to disagree with the rest of it (though I still think they'll have a winning record this year) - Rivers was like this already. He did this last year too. I mentioned it then and other people told me, well that's just how he is and most of them were happy that he "cared" so much. I personally think this is a problem he really needs to correct. Part of being a leader (requisite for the QB position) is keeping your cool even in the worst of situations. Throwing tantrums is about as far from that as you can get.I will agree that Norv isn't the guy who's going to correct that problem though. He's not a strong disciplinarian (to put it extremely mildly). If Phil wants to be good, and I mean take control of a game be the man kind of good that top QBs have to be, he needs to get a grip on this.There a few ways the Chargers can go right now. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season shakes out. I would guess Norv is basically on a conditional one year deal (regardless of his actual contract) - if they don't get a playoff win I think he'll be shown the door and the Chargers will act early to get a real HC in there for 2008. I'd like to see Cowher, but it doesn't sound like he wants to leave NC. I think the other Bill currently without a job would be a more likely candidate - I think he's mentioned wanting to coach LaDainian a few times. I think he'd be able to get these guys somewhere, despite his less than stellar Cowboys tenure. I don't know what the particulars of getting him out of retirement would be vis a vi his prior contract with the Cowboys.

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I have a bunch of buddies that are Auburn and Georgia Alumni. They have been ripping Rivers for years. According to them both Auburn and Georgia didn’t even offer Rivers a scholarship even though he grew up in Alabama. They called him a cry baby in college with no leadership skills. I am guessing they are not that far off.

jesseasi said:

Gr00vus said:

jesseasi said:

especially P. Rivers acting like big babies. When the Bears got away with an off sides on the goal line - I haven’t see a grown man cry like Rivers did since Adam Morrison lost in the NCAA’s. The call was made – get over it and move on. Crying about isn’t going to change the ref’s mind.

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I'm not going to disagree with the rest of it (though I still think they'll have a winning record this year) - Rivers was like this already. He did this last year too. I mentioned it then and other people told me, well that's just how he is and most of them were happy that he "cared" so much. I personally think this is a problem he really needs to correct. Part of being a leader (requisite for the QB position) is keeping your cool even in the worst of situations. Throwing tantrums is about as far from that as you can get.I will agree that Norv isn't the guy who's going to correct that problem though. He's not a strong disciplinarian (to put it extremely mildly). If Phil wants to be good, and I mean take control of a game be the man kind of good that top QBs have to be, he needs to get a grip on this.

There a few ways the Chargers can go right now. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season shakes out. I would guess Norv is basically on a conditional one year deal (regardless of his actual contract) - if they don't get a playoff win I think he'll be shown the door and the Chargers will act early to get a real HC in there for 2008. I'd like to see Cowher, but it doesn't sound like he wants to leave NC. I think the other Bill currently without a job would be a more likely candidate - I think he's mentioned wanting to coach LaDainian a few times. I think he'd be able to get these guys somewhere, despite his less than stellar Cowboys tenure. I don't know what the particulars of getting him out of retirement would be vis a vi his prior contract with the Cowboys.

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I have a bunch of buddies that are Auburn and Georgia Alumni. They have been ripping Rivers for years. According to them both Auburn and Georgia didn’t even offer Rivers a scholarship even though he grew up in Alabama. They called him a cry baby in college with no leadership skills. I am guessing they are not that far off.

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Those who watched him at NC State would disagree with "no leadership skills" statement

Chargers will win this week and sweep thru weeks 4, 5, and 6 (all divisional games). That has them sitting at 5-1 going into the bye.

Why is everyone whining?

BAT1man said:

Why is everyone whining? :(

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Because the Pats were "the Daddy" and the Chargers were "the Mommy" in week 2.

jesseasi said:

Coming from a Charger homer here – my two cent rant about why I don’t like Norv anymore.When the Chargers parted ways with Marty - I was ecstatic. I felt that Marty out coached himself in the playoff game against NE and would never get the stigma of being a playoff loser off his resume.When they went out and got Norv Turner I thought it was a decent move. 1. Norv has done wonders with developing QB's (Troy Aikman, Alex Smith) 2. The system in San Diego is pretty much the same system he runs. 3. Norv got the short end of the stick with all his previous jobs. Redskins Snyder fouled things up in Washington and the Raiders....well they are the Raiders.4. Seems like AJ Smith wants to be the media guy and Norv is content to just be the coach. Perfect fit I thought.Well now - after seeing how the Chargers have come out in their 1st two games - I have to say I am totally disgusted with Norv and the whole attitude of the Chargers.1. A botched punt basically helped the Chargers get past the Bears in week 1. Add in the missed called when Neal took out Mike Brown with a close line - the Chargers got lucky. - What I did see - the beginning of the Chargers and especially P. Rivers acting like big babies. When the Bears got away with an off sides on the goal line - I haven’t see a grown man cry like Rivers did since Adam Morrison lost in the NCAA’s. The call was made – get over it and move on. Crying about isn’t going to change the ref’s mind.2. All week long before the Pats game it seemed like the Chargers talked smack about getting even with the Pats. LT making reference to “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” or how Merriman was looking to get revenge after the “low life” Pats mocked his dance after last years playoff game.3. They come out on National TV and look pathetic – on both sides of the ball. One defense they can’t cover my grandma and they failed to put any pressure on Brady. On offense they made huge blunders and seem to have no direction as to what they want to accomplish in their game plan. Establish the run? Work the short passes? Hit a home run? Nothing clicked and nothing worked to help lead to more offense.Norv should have stepped in and told his team to shut the hell up and let the play of the field do all the talking. Norv needs to learn to be the bad cop – not the good cop. That is why Norv is a great offensive coordinator – he is a great good cop. He is used to the head coach tearing the QB a new one then going over and coddling the players.When Phillip Rivers goes out and on the very 1st offensive play of the game – throws an INT. Norv should have been in his face. Do you think Bill Cowher would have been babying his QB after a stupid play like that? How about Mike Nolan ripping the play of Alex Smith even though they are 2-0. Norv needs to step it up and make a statement. Norv also needs to decide what they are going to do on offense. Establish the run and work in the deep ball? Come out throwing to then work in the run? Seems like they have no identity on offense right now.If the Chargers don’t get their act together they are going to lose in Green Bay this weekend.Just my two cent rant and rave about the Chargers and how fast they are falling.

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Your team sucks this year because your GM pulled the dumbest move since Casterly drafted Williams over Young/Bush by letting go of Marty and allowing the rest of the coaching staff to disolve--it was well known throughout the league that SD had talent but the coaching staff down to the assts was the most valuable in football.

jesseasi said:

I am holding my breath for Cowher next year. I think if he were to come out of retirement - the Chargers would be the perfect place. Beautiful sunny San Diego with a wealth of talent. Do you think Bill reads these forums? Hey BILL - come to San Diego!

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Cower has the "G" MEN written all over him.....HE WILL COACH THE GIANTS

I can't believe the OP was originally happy with the Norv hiring.

jesseasi said:

1. Norv has done wonders with developing QB's (Troy Aikman, Alex Smith)

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Norv did wonders with Alex Smith? When?

jesseasi said:

When Phillip Rivers goes out and on the very 1st offensive play of the game – throws an INT. Norv should have been in his face. Do you think Bill Cowher would have been babying his QB after a stupid play like that?

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Do you remember Kordell Stewart?

I would not say I was happy - I was happy that they got rid of Marty.

I don't care what anyone says about Marty as a regular season coach - he can't win the big games period.

He blew it big time in that playoff game last year. I think he out coached himself by being too aggressive when he should have been conservative.

That said AJ Smith waited too long to get rid of Marty - if they had made that move sooner, they probably could have promoted from within and kept the rest of the staff in tact.

It was no secret that Marty and AJ did not get along. It was crazy that they initially said Marty would be back for another year.

All that said - I thought Norv was a good fit - oops.

He sucks!

jesseasi said:

I would not say I was happy - I was happy that they got rid of Marty.I don't care what anyone says about Marty as a regular season coach - he can't win the big games period. He blew it big time in that playoff game last year. I think he out coached himself by being too aggressive when he should have been conservative.That said AJ Smith waited too long to get rid of Marty - if they had made that move sooner, they probably could have promoted from within and kept the rest of the staff in tact.It was no secret that Marty and AJ did not get along. It was crazy that they initially said Marty would be back for another year. All that said - I thought Norv was a good fit - oops.He sucks!

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I was a huge Schottenheimer fan. I think he's a terrific and extremely underrated head coach.Note: I don't think Cam Cameron is the guy Chargers' fans should be pining for.

jesseasi said:

I would not say I was happy - I was happy that they got rid of Marty.I don't care what anyone says about Marty as a regular season coach - he can't win the big games period.

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Yeah, just like that Bill Cowher chump.

Norv will suck if they lose on the road to Green Bay. not that GB is a bad team at all. But no way should SD lose that game, on the road or not. Green Bay's D has been playing well, and that team is confident, so the Chargers definitely are in for a dogfight.

JTM said:

Your team sucks this year because your GM pulled the dumbest move since Casterly drafted Williams over Young/Bush by letting go of Marty and allowing the rest of the coaching staff to disolve--it was well known throughout the league that SD had talent but the coaching staff down to the assts was the most valuable in football.

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I'm not going to disagree with too much in this thread, but this post is way off-base. A.J. didn't "let go" of Marty. Let's put together a timeline here:1. A.J. Smith offered Marty a contract extension for his 14 win season after getting embarrassed in the playoffs.

2. Marty refused it, choosing instead to play out his current contract.

3. Both coordinators are hired away to be head coaches elsewhere because Marty didn't seem to be going anywhere that year.

4. Marty orchestrated his own firing (by urging remaining coaches to take offers from other teams and insisting that the Chargers bring in his brother Kurt, even though Spanos had said he would never hire him) while he still had time on his contract, and Spanos obliged him.

5. A.J. was forced to make a decision on the next remaining candidates. Like the O.P. said, Norv did not look like too bad of a choice considering the circumstances.

I didn't read the entire thread, but um, impatient much?

They just played 2 damn good defenses, and one was a Pats team that has a ton to prove

He had a poop team in Oakland. I don't think Turner's the next Madden, but give him a chance to show what he can do with the team. Pass judgement come week 17.

Jon_Moore said:

They just played 2 damn good defenses

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They weren't just two good defenses, they were likely the two best defenses in the NFL, and walk away 1-1. GB has a pretty damn good defense and will test the Chargers mightily, but I expect the Bolts to leave with a closely contested road victory. No team will have had a tougher 3 opponents after week 3.

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

Family Matters said:

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

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I think the main reason for my rant - ( I know that it has only been two games) - is that I don't like what I see right now.Seems like everyone on the Chargers is talking smack.Rivera calling Grossman a "mental midget"LT - making fun of the Pats saying " if you aint cheating you aint tryin"Rivers joking about the LT commercial showing LT taking it to the BearsRivers acting like a big baby every time something goes wrong.The secondary being unable to cover anyone.The WR's not being able to get open.The lack of any offensive game plan.Seems like Norv does not have control of this team and they have lost their identity on offense.

jesseasi said:

Family Matters said:

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

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I think the main reason for my rant - ( I know that it has only been two games) - is that I don't like what I see right now.Seems like everyone on the Chargers is talking smack.Rivera calling Grossman a "mental midget"LT - making fun of the Pats saying " if you aint cheating you aint tryin"Rivers joking about the LT commercial showing LT taking it to the BearsRivers acting like a big baby every time something goes wrong.The secondary being unable to cover anyone.The WR's not being able to get open.The lack of any offensive game plan.Seems like Norv does not have control of this team and they have lost their identity on offense.

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I think you are absolutly right here.

Family Matters said:

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

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I don't know how it's Marty's fault that an idiot muffs a punt and then, instead of falling on it at mid-field, tries to pick it up and run with it while 4 guys are bearing down on him, WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT THE BALL.

The 2007 Pro football Prospectus (by Football Outsiders) has a 2 page article detailing why Norv Turner is one of the worst NFL head coaches in history. The arguments are convincing like:

1. Statistically, Norv grades out as the 9th worst coach of all time at holding 4th quarter leads. (out of 383).

2. He does less with the "poor" (4-12) teams he inherited than other new head coaches, averaging .9 wins less than other new head coaches over the following 5 years after taking over.

3. Norv is one of 8 head coaches to coach at least 64 games, AND have a career losing record, AND fall short of their team's Pythagorean projection by .5 wins every 16 games. Other "losers" include Lindy Infante, Dennis Erickson, Joe Bugel, David Shula, Monte Clark, Dan Henning and Neill Armstrong. That is a really bad stat, because BAD teams can usually exceed their Pythagorean projection simply by regressing up towards the mean. It is easier for previously bad teams to exceed projections and easier for previously good teams to fall short. When Norv takes over a "bad" team and still falls short, that is very poor and quite telling of his lack of coaching ability.

Jerry Rice on Norv Turner - "He could not motivate the players, he had no control."

The Pro Football Prospectus Mean Projection for SD Chargers 2007 wins is 8.6. And that is coming off of a 14 win season using 1000s of computer-generated simulated seasons. They are pretty decent at predicting success, but not perfect of course.

I think San Diego will be lucky to go 9-7 or 10-6 this year and may even miss the playoffs. Rivers looks bad, LT has struggled and they have a tough schedule, including facing the much improved Packers team with their strong D at Lambeau off an emotional primetime loss and cross-country trip for a non-conference game. The had to travel from SD to NE to SD to WI on a slightly shortened week. They still face Denver twice, Baltimore, Indy, at GB this week, at KC, at an improved Oakland, and a solid Tennessee that almost beat Indy last week. The home game with Houston doesn't look so easy anymore either with their improved team.

San Diego is a talented team, but Marty is a much, much better head coach than Norv. They say Marty could never win in the playoffs, well neither could Manning or Elway - until they did of course.

Just my opinion, but Charger fans may be in for a long season.

everything went right for the Chargers last year. The NFL changes a ton from year to year just due to the variance of only playing 16 games. The Chargers have an incredibly hard schedule this year. I think they should be about an 8-10 win team. Of course they'll do just that and then everyone will blame Norv for "failing to live up to expectations."

mad sweeney said:

Family Matters said:

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

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I don't know how it's Marty's fault that an idiot muffs a punt and then, instead of falling on it at mid-field, tries to pick it up and run with it while 4 guys are bearing down on him, WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT THE BALL.

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I was at the game and I came away feeling like the Chargers had kicked the Pats ### but some how the Chargers were too aggressive late in the game and opened the door for the Pats to sneak back in and win.Looking back at the play by play break down - here is was drove me nuts - and I remember being so upset at the game when I saw the do the following:

Going into the 4th quarter the chargers are up 14-13. At the 13:19 mark in the 4th quarter the Charger put together a long driving leading to a TD and eating up 5 min of the clock and taking at 21-13 lead.

On the next possession the Pats put together a long drive - Brady gets intercepted only to have McCree then fumble the ball back keeping the drive alive.

Granted we can't blame Marty for the bonehead play - but either way this leads to a TD and two point conversion.

Now here is where I went nuts. score is 21-21 with only 4:30 minutes left. Instead of giving the Pats a heavy dose of LT (who by the way already has 118 yards, 2TD's and another 64 yards recieving). This would probably have been the conservative approach and where I think Marty out coached himself. He gives the 1st play to LT which he quickly gains 5 yards leaving 2nd and 5. What happens on the next two plays? In crunch time - with everything on the line - they pass the ball two times to Vincent Jackson and then Eric Parker. How do you not give the ball to LT or into the hands of Gates? Chargers go 3 and out and don't use up any time on the clock. The rest is history - Pats march right now and kick the go ahead FG.

Now you may claim Marty was not calling the plays, or how can he be responsible for the bone head plays by McCree etc.

Either way - in my book he was the head coach and he is responsible. Marty has been to the playoffs 12 times in 19 years. How many superbowls has he made it to? He reminds me of my Cubs. Allways an excuse.

Despyzer said:

[5. A.J. was forced to make a decision on the next remaining candidates. Like the O.P. said, Norv did not look like too bad of a choice considering the circumstances.

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I agree with everything else you wrote. There is a very short list of NFL coaches I would take Norv Turner over who are unemployed and have some name recognition. If this is the best the Chargers could do, it's not good - they would've been better off trying to hire just about anyone else who might have been a candidate.The circumstances where Norv doesn't look so bad as a head coach involve high school, low-level college, and anything where he works for nearly free for a year, and the team is expected to suck.

The real question is can the Chargers' talent get Norv to the playoffs? I think they can make the Wild Card, but I wouldn't guarantee it - the schedule is tough, and the coach is horrid.

Where are the sharks? What the heck are you people talking about?

The Chargers are falling? Why? You think the fact that they fought and won a tough battle against what most regard to be the best defense in football (Chicago) and then went about as far away from home as they can to play against the pre-season team picked to win the Superbowl, by every odds maker, football prognosticator, and casual fan, and came away beaten, is some indication that the Chargers are falling? Step away from your pipe!

Who is going to go into Foxboro and come away looking better than the Chargers did, any time this season? Give me a break.

And for those on a fishing expedition, saying the Chargers are an 8-10 win team, lucky to even make a wildcard, do you even watch football? Which AFC West team is going to have more wins than the Chargers? Really? Please don't even say the Broncos. They are the worst 2-0 team in the NFL right now. They really should have lost to the Raiders, and eaked out a win against the Bills. Those are 2 of the 5 worst teams in football. As for those Raiders and the Cheifs, forget about it.

Norvy or not, the Chargers are going to win the West. Once the playoffs begin, anything can and will happen.

As for the fair weather Charger fans, please get off the bandwagon, and stay off the bandwagon.

jesseasi said:

mad sweeney said:

Family Matters said:

Can't say I'm surprised by many of these posts. When speaking of out smarting themselves, AJ may have based on his handling of coaches. Time will tell but Marty is not the reason they lost in the playoffs last year. Norv isn't the reason they will win but he likely will be heavily criticized by Charger fans if they don't win the AFC this year. The Chargers are too good not to make the playoffs but the coaching issues aren't going away anytime soon. It'll be interesting to see how far they go this year.

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I don't know how it's Marty's fault that an idiot muffs a punt and then, instead of falling on it at mid-field, tries to pick it up and run with it while 4 guys are bearing down on him, WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT THE BALL.

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I was at the game and I came away feeling like the Chargers had kicked the Pats ### but some how the Chargers were too aggressive late in the game and opened the door for the Pats to sneak back in and win.Looking back at the play by play break down - here is was drove me nuts - and I remember being so upset at the game when I saw the do the following:

Going into the 4th quarter the chargers are up 14-13. At the 13:19 mark in the 4th quarter the Charger put together a long driving leading to a TD and eating up 5 min of the clock and taking at 21-13 lead.

On the next possession the Pats put together a long drive - Brady gets intercepted only to have McCree then fumble the ball back keeping the drive alive.

Granted we can't blame Marty for the bonehead play - but either way this leads to a TD and two point conversion.

Now here is where I went nuts. score is 21-21 with only 4:30 minutes left. Instead of giving the Pats a heavy dose of LT (who by the way already has 118 yards, 2TD's and another 64 yards recieving). This would probably have been the conservative approach and where I think Marty out coached himself. He gives the 1st play to LT which he quickly gains 5 yards leaving 2nd and 5. What happens on the next two plays? In crunch time - with everything on the line - they pass the ball two times to Vincent Jackson and then Eric Parker. How do you not give the ball to LT or into the hands of Gates? Chargers go 3 and out and don't use up any time on the clock. The rest is history - Pats march right now and kick the go ahead FG.

Now you may claim Marty was not calling the plays, or how can he be responsible for the bone head plays by McCree etc.

Either way - in my book he was the head coach and he is responsible. Marty has been to the playoffs 12 times in 19 years. How many superbowls has he made it to? He reminds me of my Cubs. Allways an excuse.

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I understand the comment "there's always an excuse" but in saying that you're making excuses for everyone else. Marty wasn't calling the plays and everyone says that's the reason they went 14-2. Now it backfires and it's MArty's fault? Can't have it both ways. At the end of the day, blame the a couple of players for their bone head plays. They had this game wrapped up and they gave it away. As for Marty's past, it really has nothing to do with it. Different team, different coaches and different players. It's not that hard to see is it?

It's a long season and if the Chargers played the two best teams in the league all season they'd have some problems but that's not the case. I didn't expect them to be undefeated and I didn't expect them to beat the Pats in Foxboro. They will be fine.

Banger said:

It's a long season and if the Chargers played the two best teams in the league all season they'd have some problems but that's not the case. I didn't expect them to be undefeated and I didn't expect them to beat the Pats in Foxboro. They will be fine.

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I would not say I expected them to be 2-0. In fact to be 1-1 after playing the Bears and Pats is pretty good.What I don't like is that they did not even show up for the Pats game. They accomplished nothing on offense and were serverely exposed on defense. Add in the fact that they got LUCKY week one when a botched punt went 10 yards and bounced off a Bear then later got away with a closeline block to lead to another TD. The Chargers offense has looked like garbage. LT has a total of 68 yards. The QB friendly Norv has not helped Rivers in any aspect of his game and teams should have taken notice - the Chargers can't cover anyone.They are lucky to be 1-1 and will probably need some more luck to be 2-1.

jesseasi said:

Now here is where I went nuts. score is 21-21 with only 4:30 minutes left. Instead of giving the Pats a heavy dose of LT (who by the way already has 118 yards, 2TD's and another 64 yards recieving). This would probably have been the conservative approach and where I think Marty out coached himself. He gives the 1st play to LT which he quickly gains 5 yards leaving 2nd and 5. What happens on the next two plays? In crunch time - with everything on the line - they pass the ball two times to Vincent Jackson and then Eric Parker. How do you not give the ball to LT or into the hands of Gates? Chargers go 3 and out and don't use up any time on the clock. The rest is history - Pats march right now and kick the go ahead FG.

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Wow. So you think that one of the top coaches in history by win percentage, who'd just led the team to a 14-2 record, should have been fired because the offensive coordinator called a pass play in a tie game? That's utterly ridiculous and an obvious case of 20/20 hindsight. And how do you know LT or Gates wasn't the first read on the play? Would you have been calling for him to be fired if the pass was complete?Forget it, you deserve Norv Turner.

You guys traded a coach that can't win in the playoffs for a coach that can't get you there.

jesseasi said:

I am holding my breath for Cowher next year. I think if he were to come out of retirement - the Chargers would be the perfect place. Beautiful sunny San Diego with a wealth of talent. Do you think Bill reads these forums? Hey BILL - come to San Diego!

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He is tight with Marty. I can't see him going to the place the screwed over his buddy.

"thetlle down Beavith"....

I think you will find that the Patriots will make many good teams look silly this year.

The Chargers will get their wins... although less than last year.

(why is it that when I post a message there is a box that says "BB Code Help"... so I click on it and it has nothing to do with the other teams defensive signals)???

BAT1man said:

Chargers will win this week

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Here's what's wrong with the Chargers: They only utilize two weapons - a RB and a TE.

They got away with it last year, now teams are onto their system. Stack the box to stop LT, and single cover the WRs (they're not a threat, and Rivers won't bother to look their way anyways).

Look at the top offenses in the AFC right now, they all have multiple ways to hurt a defense, most notably dangerous WRs that stretch out a defense. San Diego doesn't have that. Bring everybody in, stop LT and the Charger offense shuts down.

sholditch said:

You guys traded a coach that can't win in the playoffs for a coach that can't get you there.

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That's classic.

a_troll00 said:

Here's what's wrong with the Chargers: They only utilize two weapons - a RB and a TE.They got away with it last year, now teams are onto their system. Stack the box to stop LT, and single cover the WRs (they're not a threat, and Rivers won't bother to look their way anyways).Look at the top offenses in the AFC right now, they all have multiple ways to hurt a defense, most notably dangerous WRs that stretch out a defense. San Diego doesn't have that. Bring everybody in, stop LT and the Charger offense shuts down.

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LOL. Is that what you have to do, just stack the box? I'm surprised coach's didn't figure that out last year. This same team with those same two threats led the NFL offenses in scoring last year.Bottomline is that Rivers isn't playing as well, LT isn't playing as well, their line definitely isn't playing as well and in large part I believe it's due to the teams that they have played. Let's look back to LT's historic year last year. In weeks 4/5 the Chargers played Baltimore/Pitt and went 1-1. During those games LT went for a combined 175 yards and 0 td's. This year they face two of the best defenses and LT goes for 134-1 (and a TD pass). It happens that they had to start the year against two top teams so everything gets magnified but if it happens during the year it goes by without notice. As we all know, the Chargers and LT went on to have a decent season last year.Are the Chargers good as a lot may have thought? Maybe not, are they as bad as many are fearing? definitely not.

jesseasi said:

Add in the fact that they got LUCKY week one when a botched punt went 10 yards and bounced off a Bear then later got away with a closeline block to lead to another TD.

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I could argue that the Bears were lucky that they didn't get called for an obvious offsides that would have resulted in a Charger TD as opposed to a turnover.

jesseasi said:

Now you may claim Marty was not calling the plays, or how can he be responsible for the bone head plays by McCree etc.Either way - in my book he was the head coach and he is responsible. Marty has been to the playoffs 12 times in 19 years. How many superbowls has he made it to? He reminds me of my Cubs. Allways an excuse.

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There's nothing to claim. Marty wasn't the playcaller. And everyone agreed (prior to that game) that Cameron was a terrific playcaller. So Schottenheimer hired a great playcaller -- what more do you want him to do?And not for nothing, but to get angry for a coach about calling a pass instead of a run on one specific play, even if that coach is the playcaller, is just ludicrous. You don't just anyone by one play, especially one playcall.

The Chargers real problem is LT. They need to trade him to the Lions for a real runningback, Tatum Bell.