Steven Mann
Footballguy
Who'd you rather replace Caddy with... Thoughts?
Poor Guy
Poor Guy
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Pittman Vs. Graham (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steven Mann
- Start date
Steven Mann
Footballguy
I hear ya.. Question is was Pittman also available...
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Steven Mann
Footballguy
Maybe gets activated... (imo) Don't see him in the mix now. But this has been a crazy year thru 4 weeks... Who knows
notapplicable
Footballguy
I voted for Pittman, but to be honest I have no clue... Looks like a true RBBC to me...
Steven Mann
Footballguy
Its early... However the 'poll' reflects the same thoughts...
Steven Mann
Footballguy
'bump'
I know as much as the next guy (which is to say, nothing), but I'm really surprised at how many people are voting for Graham here.
Graham was an absolute nobody until last week, when he racked up 75 yards and 2 scores in garbage time.
Today, based on the box score, it sure looks like Pittman outplayed Graham.
Now Graham may be named the starter, but what evidence is there that would suggest that would be a good idea?
Graham was an absolute nobody until last week, when he racked up 75 yards and 2 scores in garbage time.
Today, based on the box score, it sure looks like Pittman outplayed Graham.
Now Graham may be named the starter, but what evidence is there that would suggest that would be a good idea?
WiDDoW_MaKeR
Footballguy
Pittman. He is a much more effective runner. He knows the system to a T, and is a great receiving option too. Graham may or may not get the goaline carries. I mean, he was stuffed 4 times in a row at the goal line today. I think that Graham may have just been a quick flare up, D. Wynn-like.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Based on Pittman's history I would humbly dissagree with this. Pittman has had a few shots at being the #1 guy including in Tampa and he failed every time.
I have to agree with Widdow Maker here. In 2004, Pittman was the starting back in Tampa beginning in Week 4 and put up pretty good numbers:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/game...ttMi00.htm#2004
WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+
| 4 den | 15 72 | 0 | 0 |
| 5 nor | 15 51 | 29 | 0 |
| 6 stl | 13 37 | 16 | 1 |
| 7 chi | 23 109 | 55 | 1 |
| 9 kan | 15 128 | 30 | 3 |
| 10 atl | 20 62 | 16 | 0 |
| 11 sfo | 21 106 | 0 | 2 |
| 12 car | 18 29 | 134 | 2 |
| 13 atl | 17 68 | 12 | 1 |
| 14 sdg | 12 42 | 46 | 0 |
| 15 nor | 24 131 | 10 | 0 |
| 16 car | 10 41 | 13 | 0 |
| 17 ari | 16 50 | 30 | 0 |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+
| TOTAL | 219 926 | 391 | 10
Over 1300 combined yards and 10 TDs in 13 games is pretty good. There is no guarantee that he puts up the same numbers again - he's older and Graham will probably steal a few carries, but, given the fact he's done well in Gruden's system in the past and clearly out-performed Graham today, I think Pittman will be the primary back and is the guy to get.
perry147
Footballguy
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I don't believe Pittman is a COP 3rd down type.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
Lots of man crush for Pittman here.
So just why has Ernesto scored all the TD's?
this is a real question - I did not see either of the last two games
So just why has Ernesto scored all the TD's?
this is a real question - I did not see either of the last two games
Sopranos
Footballguy
Not a man crush at all. The fact is he was a top 12 RB when he started in 04.. I won 2 leagues with him. Most KNOW he can be a legit #2.. Graham is just a flyer with upside.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Was Pittman still playing FB and blocking in the GL packages? I didn't watch the game. He'd been playing FB when Williams was playing earlier in the year though. What other FB do they even have on the roster now anyway?
gump
Footballguy
It sounds like there are lots of replies from guys who haven't watched either play this year.
I've watched every game...my opinion is:
PITTMAN - still has a great burst and speed to the outside, good receiver, was playing FB with CW healthy, worst short-yardage back in the NFL
GRAHAM - straight ahead runner...that's it pretty much, runs downhill and hard, but misses holes if they are more than 5 feet to either side of him
Both have serious limitations. Pittman looked better yesterday, but will NEVER be a full-time back because of his inability to get tough yards.
RBBC.
I've watched every game...my opinion is:
PITTMAN - still has a great burst and speed to the outside, good receiver, was playing FB with CW healthy, worst short-yardage back in the NFL
GRAHAM - straight ahead runner...that's it pretty much, runs downhill and hard, but misses holes if they are more than 5 feet to either side of him
Both have serious limitations. Pittman looked better yesterday, but will NEVER be a full-time back because of his inability to get tough yards.
RBBC.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Pittman will have similar, less than D Ward value... about 15 carries with 3 too 4 Recs.
Personal.. I'm going to try to move him to the Caddy owner.
Personal.. I'm going to try to move him to the Caddy owner.
Toads
Footballguy
The schedule for TBB is the key here....they face the esaiest schedule for running the ball in '07.That makes Graham the man.....Pittman is Gruden's "Bull Dog" but he's a roll player.
Graham gets the work horse carries and the goal line carries. Pittman gets the 3rd down work, is a pass catcher out of the back field.
Read the game thread, goalline looks are gold. Running inside the 20's is preferable to go along with GL carries. Being the primary goalline back for an offense consistently in the redzone is better.
I might stay away from this completely. Only because I have no roster space.
Where earnest grahams TD's last week in garbage time? Just checked....Score was 10-3 when he scored his 1st TD early in the 4th quarter 834 left in the game. 5minutes remaining he scored again to put the game completely ways capping a 3 play drive. Doesn't look like garbage time to me. Last TD made it a 3 possesion game.
RotoWorld blurb
Caddy done for '07 with torn patellar tendon
Cadillac Williams will miss the remainder of the season with a torn patellar tendon.
Williams will be placed on injured reserve and undergo surgery early in the week. He finished up with a 3.5 yards-per-carry average on the season, and had been in danger of losing work to both Earnest Graham and Michael Pittman before going down. The Bucs may not be willing to rely in Cadillac as a feature back in 2008 considering his propensity for getting hurt. Pittman will likely take over as Tampa Bay's starter now, and Graham will be in heavily involved. Rookie Kenneth Darby should be activated from the practice squad. Sep. 30 - 8:26 pm et
Source: St. Petersburg Times
I might stay away from this completely. Only because I have no roster space.
Where earnest grahams TD's last week in garbage time? Just checked....Score was 10-3 when he scored his 1st TD early in the 4th quarter 834 left in the game. 5minutes remaining he scored again to put the game completely ways capping a 3 play drive. Doesn't look like garbage time to me. Last TD made it a 3 possesion game.
RotoWorld blurb
Caddy done for '07 with torn patellar tendon
Cadillac Williams will miss the remainder of the season with a torn patellar tendon.
Williams will be placed on injured reserve and undergo surgery early in the week. He finished up with a 3.5 yards-per-carry average on the season, and had been in danger of losing work to both Earnest Graham and Michael Pittman before going down. The Bucs may not be willing to rely in Cadillac as a feature back in 2008 considering his propensity for getting hurt. Pittman will likely take over as Tampa Bay's starter now, and Graham will be in heavily involved. Rookie Kenneth Darby should be activated from the practice squad. Sep. 30 - 8:26 pm et
Source: St. Petersburg Times
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Gargoylez
Footballguy
I grabbed Pittman to backup Caddy Williams. It is a pretty good 50/50 split.
-Graham did very well last week Vs. the Rams. Had some good runs, but that also had to do with the Bucs Oline mauling the Rams Dline.
-Pittman ran VERY well inbetween the 20's. Definately, statistically speaking, had a better day then graham.
-Graham was stuffed 3 times inside the 5. I am not sure if that means anything, but they might give Pittman a try.
-Pittman is the 3rd down back. So despite the 50/50 call here, Pittman IMO will get more time on the field then Graham.
-Pittman makes alot more money. Don't know if that will have anything to do with it.
-Graham did very well last week Vs. the Rams. Had some good runs, but that also had to do with the Bucs Oline mauling the Rams Dline.
-Pittman ran VERY well inbetween the 20's. Definately, statistically speaking, had a better day then graham.
-Graham was stuffed 3 times inside the 5. I am not sure if that means anything, but they might give Pittman a try.
-Pittman is the 3rd down back. So despite the 50/50 call here, Pittman IMO will get more time on the field then Graham.
-Pittman makes alot more money. Don't know if that will have anything to do with it.
Update from rotoworld this morning:
Michael Pittman and Earnest Graham will share the running back duties in Tampa following Cadillac Williams' season-ending knee injury.
Pittman will start games and get the bulk of the load, with Graham as a change of pace and rookie Kenneth Darby coming off the practice squad. Pittman has the best all-around game and should be your No. 1 priority on waiver wires if he's available. Graham is also worth stashing in all leagues.
Source: St. Petersburg Times
Michael Pittman and Earnest Graham will share the running back duties in Tampa following Cadillac Williams' season-ending knee injury.
Pittman will start games and get the bulk of the load, with Graham as a change of pace and rookie Kenneth Darby coming off the practice squad. Pittman has the best all-around game and should be your No. 1 priority on waiver wires if he's available. Graham is also worth stashing in all leagues.
Source: St. Petersburg Times
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Pittman as the main RB
with Graham as the 3rd down COP.
This makes total sense, imo.
with Graham as the 3rd down COP.
This makes total sense, imo.
Why would the Bucs bring in a less-experienced pass protector, and a less-skilled pass catcher, on 3rd down?I'm not sure how the touches are going to be split here, but Pittman's biggest advantage over Graham is his value in passing situations.
Whiplash Inc.
Footballguy
It sounds like there are lots of replies from guys who haven't watched either play this year.I've watched every game...my opinion isITTMAN - still has a great burst and speed to the outside, good receiver, was playing FB with CW healthy, worst short-yardage back in the NFLGRAHAM - straight ahead runner...that's it pretty much, runs downhill and hard, but misses holes if they are more than 5 feet to either side of himBoth have serious limitations. Pittman looked better yesterday, but will NEVER be a full-time back because of his inability to get tough yards.RBBC.
I think yesterday's game is the blueprint of things to come.
Whiplash Inc.
Footballguy
Also, I don't know how much of this will play a role, but considering the seriousness of Caddy's injury, he might not be their #1 runningback next year (or part of next year). Pittman is 32 years old, compared to Graham being 27. They just might give Graham a better shot or give him more time to get into sort of a leading back type role, just for the sake of seeing what they do or do'n't have with him. Just a thought.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
anyone going to play any of these guys against Indy this weekend.
Swampy
Footballguy
I might have too. Westy is BYE, and Im looking at James, Green, MJD, and Betts. If Green is healthy I might start him, but I dont know if they are on a BYE week yet.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
I see pittman getting most of the work if the game is close or they are behind and graham coming in and running out the clock when they have a big lead,let him just pound the ball...and man can he move a pile 
omally
Footballguy
Gruden has never seemed to make decisions based on age. He loves veteran players playing for him, so I don't thing age really matters here.
RC94
Footballguy
What do you guys think about TB's RB situation from a dynasty perspective? Is Caddy really finished? If so, do they have a long term (the next 3 years or so at least) replacement on the roster already or do they need to look elsewhere (sign Turner or J. Jones, etc... or draft a RB early)?
perry147
Footballguy
As a matter of fact it might be the other way.
gump
Footballguy
Keep something in mind before rushing out to pick up Pitt...
The Bucs were reportedly (Mort) turned down by Corey Dillon during the game on Sunday.
Rumors flying now of interest by Tiki Barber, although not even sure that's possible if he signed ret. papers.
Michael Turner trade?
Bottom line is it sounds like the Bucs are looking hard for other options.
The Bucs were reportedly (Mort) turned down by Corey Dillon during the game on Sunday.
Rumors flying now of interest by Tiki Barber, although not even sure that's possible if he signed ret. papers.
Michael Turner trade?
Bottom line is it sounds like the Bucs are looking hard for other options.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Sep. 30, 2007 - 7:52 p.m. ET
Earnest Graham carried 17 times for 48 yards and one touchdown in Week 4 against the Panthers.
The Bucs didn't miss a beat after Cadillac Williams left with a knee injury, as Graham and Michael Pittman continued to slice through the Panthers' run defense. If Williams is out for an extended period, Graham figures to get a fair percentage of the carries and most of the goal-line work, with coach Jon Gruden talking about wanting to get him more involved in the offense even before Cadillac went down.
Earnest Graham carried 17 times for 48 yards and one touchdown in Week 4 against the Panthers.
The Bucs didn't miss a beat after Cadillac Williams left with a knee injury, as Graham and Michael Pittman continued to slice through the Panthers' run defense. If Williams is out for an extended period, Graham figures to get a fair percentage of the carries and most of the goal-line work, with coach Jon Gruden talking about wanting to get him more involved in the offense even before Cadillac went down.
EFD
Footballguy
Generally speaking, people like new, shiny things. Seems to me that the 2007 numbers & usage date and the historical data both favor Pittman, but he's not new or shiny. So, people vote for the rook.Personally, and as a Caddy, Pittman and Graham owner, I think it's Pittman. Only time will tell...
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Pittman or Graham?
by Gregg Rosenthal
I'd definitely choose Michael Pittman over Earnest Graham, and it's not just because Pittman outplayed Graham in Week 4. It's because Pittman has been excellent since he joined the Bucs, averaging at least four yards-per-carry in his last five seasons.
It's not like he's slowing down. Pittman has averaged 5.67 yards-per-carry since 2005 on 150 carries, and he's good for 45 catches even while playing as a backup. Graham is an unknown; a special teams player who hasn't earned a consistent role in four seasons. He looks likely get goal-line carries, but Pittman's pass catching ability and proven production make him a better option. They will proabably split carries, but Pittman will be ranked higher in Goal Line Stand as a solid flex option.
Update: I went to check goal-line stats for the Bucs this year. Graham had six carries for one score. Caddy had five carries for two scores. Pittman didn't have one. That makes the call closer, but I'd still go with Pittman because of the overall package.
Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:24:02
by Gregg Rosenthal
I'd definitely choose Michael Pittman over Earnest Graham, and it's not just because Pittman outplayed Graham in Week 4. It's because Pittman has been excellent since he joined the Bucs, averaging at least four yards-per-carry in his last five seasons.
It's not like he's slowing down. Pittman has averaged 5.67 yards-per-carry since 2005 on 150 carries, and he's good for 45 catches even while playing as a backup. Graham is an unknown; a special teams player who hasn't earned a consistent role in four seasons. He looks likely get goal-line carries, but Pittman's pass catching ability and proven production make him a better option. They will proabably split carries, but Pittman will be ranked higher in Goal Line Stand as a solid flex option.
Update: I went to check goal-line stats for the Bucs this year. Graham had six carries for one score. Caddy had five carries for two scores. Pittman didn't have one. That makes the call closer, but I'd still go with Pittman because of the overall package.
Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:24:02
I think in WW purposes they are both were picking up if theyr'e available.
If I had to pick one, I'd take Pittman. He's the proven guy and he's been OK to solid over the years when given the chance. Also, Tampa Bay seems like they're going in the right direction and that means good things for their RB's who will see the ball more when they're not playing from behind.
I do expect Graham at this point to see more goaline work but I was impressed at the margin at YPC in yesterday's game. They both saw the ball around 15 times and Pittman and a distinct YPC advantage over Graham.
If I had to pick one, I'd take Pittman. He's the proven guy and he's been OK to solid over the years when given the chance. Also, Tampa Bay seems like they're going in the right direction and that means good things for their RB's who will see the ball more when they're not playing from behind.
I do expect Graham at this point to see more goaline work but I was impressed at the margin at YPC in yesterday's game. They both saw the ball around 15 times and Pittman and a distinct YPC advantage over Graham.
Capella
Footballguy
Graham had a bunch of carries inside the 5 to mitigate his YPC.
