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9 targets is not enough?Buchanan was even singled up on Smith a few times and covered him near perfectly. Smith even tried a double move with a pump fake by Carr. Buchanan was all over it.
In a game where the QB threw 41 times and for a player who routinely gets 12-15? Not in my opinion and it seems Barber agrees.
Not to mention some of those "targets" where well off the mark.
I really hope your not serious. You really think Smith gets 12-15 targets per game normally.
That would be a minimum of 192 targets per year, max of 240. Last year, the top WR had only 178. Again, Buchanan did a great job covering him. Oh and Smith dropped at least 1 easy pass that would have been about a 20 yd gain.
Good info but I pointed out in my thread that his combined yardage the past two weeks was easily his lowest in back-to-back games in five years. And only once last season did he have as few receptions in back-to-back games and that was in Weeks 15/16 when he put up a 0 in one game thanks to Chris Weinke. So I think the level of poor production from him the past two games is cause for concern.The greater concern, though, in my opinion is Carr. He's an absolutely dreadful QB and while one can plan for some inconsistency with Smith going into a season one may now need to be more concerned that he won't have as many stellar games as he normally does the longer Carr remains at QB. Andre Johnson never finished Top 15 with Carr at QB and as I posted above he finished 47th once. Granted, he was injured that season but I don't see any difference between an injured player and the Steve Smith we've seen the past two weeks. Both are pretty terrible. It's not Smith that concerns me here. I still think he is an immensely talented WR. But that talent may not be enough if Carr remains the QB.Do not panic on Smith. Check out these game stats on Smith since 2003 using the standard FPT system from the Footballguys player archiveoints.....Games.....% of Games0-5.........12...........24%6-10........8............16%11-15..... 13...........26%16-20......8.............16%21-25......6.............12%26-30......1.............2%31+.........2.............4%You'll notice that nearly 1/4 of all of Smith's performances have been unproductive, netting five or fewer points. Seeing two games in a row is not highly unusual. WR performances are highly variant... feast or famine. You have to put up with the poor games in order to benefit from the monster ones, and Smith gives you a lot of those.
Please read what I wrote. I said routinely. He had six such games last season. So in 43% of his games played he got 12-15 targets. That's pretty significant. And as posted above several of the "targets" were nowhere near him. There were multiple threads about this last week and in a couple of them I talked about Carr's inability to connect with Smith downfield being a significant potential issue - and it definitely was yesterday. That's where Delhomme and Smith make their living. And Smith needs that in order to maintain his status as an elite fantasy WR. But if that's gone he becomes rather ordinary - or as was the case yesterday, considerably less than ordinary.I really hope your not serious. You really think Smith gets 12-15 targets per game normally.
Please read what I wrote. So Smith had 9 targets. He had 5 receptions. He also had at least 1 drop (I think it was 2). Buchanan had perfect coverage on 2 other passes, one a double move deep pass that Smith probably beats the CB on 8 of 10 times. So, now that is at least 3 other targets that were not incomplete because of Carr. So, 1 of the 9 was "off target." Regardless of if you or Barber want to admit it, TB did a great job against Smith. They limited his opportunities with tight coverage and minimized his YAC with strong tackling. I don't see why Carr should be thrown under the bus when Smith struggled to get open and dropped at least one easy pass that would have gone for a big gain. I don't care if Smith would have been targeted 5 more times in that game. The impression I had when watching it was even if he had, they would not have been plays that were going to hurt TB's D and thus create any big fantasy points. All players have down days, as apparent with the stats posted earlier.I should add that I don't think Carr is a great QB or anything, ony that he is taking way too much blame for Smith's stats.
Carr gets thrown under the bus because he is an absolutely horrible QB. And I think his presence will continue to have a negative impact on Smith's fantasy production as long as he's the QB. I'll be starting Smith next week because the matchup is too good to pass up and there's definitely a strong possibility Smith goes off. But the longer Carr is at QB the lower Smith's overall production will drop in my opinion. That the Bucs didn't even have to use the things they game planned for Smith, according to Barber, speaks volumes of Carr's ineptitude as an NFL quarterback in my opinion. And if Delhomme was at QB and got Smith five more targets there's a very real possibility one of them could have been a big play that could have changed the entire momentum of the game. That's the point here. Delhomme is a significantly better QB than Carr and he can get the ball to Smith both in terms of targets and in places on the field where Smith can make big plays. With Carr at QB those chances diminish in my opinion. And yesterday was definitely an example of that.
Nothing I saw yesterday backs up what you are saying though. That is not to say it is false all the time or even most of the time. Smith simply was not open yesterday. Having Jake in there isn't going to suddenly change that. Smith has to get open on his own. He was only open down the field ONCE all game and HE dropped that pass, Carr didn't make a poor throw. Maybe TB didn't use the things they had "planned" because they realized Buchanan was handling Smith already and they didn't need to.Maybe I should have asked this a long time ago, but did you watch the game?
Yup. And I saw exactly what I feared I'd see with Carr as the Panthers' starting QB.
Why would you wait through another game with Carr and then trade him right before Delhomme comes back?
All true. Important to note that 4 or 5 of Smith's targets came in the fourth quarter. Carr was not looking his way until the game had been decided. Barber's comments are 100% on the money. The Panthers/Carr made no effort to get Smith involved until it was garbage time.
Whether Delhomme comes back at all is the issue. Fox plays it very close to the vest with injuries, and he may be done for the season. Trading SSmith to someone who hopes things will turn around hoping Jake returns could reap much more value than it would if Delhomme is known to be shelved for the year.Right now its a gamble, either way.
Agreed. Smith will be just fine. He will get open in most games because he is an elite WR. I don't own Smith in any leagues, but If I had him I would not be nearly as discouraged as people seem to be on this board right now about Carr playing. Bottom line is Carr did target Smith 9 times. That is a great amount of targets. Sure, maybe it's not 15. 9 is plenty to put up stats with on most days though. Smith simply struggled yesterday. It will happen to every WR and player at some point.
5 of Car's 1st 17 plays were targets to Smith. On them he had only 2 rec for 5 yds. He was just as "involved" as Foster who also had 5 targets. So, this is false.
I think people need to take a good, long look at Andre Johnson's rankings with Carr at QB. The situations between the two teams are very similar (one standout WR, little talent around him and a decent, but not spectacular running game). There's a lesson to be learned in those numbers and unfortunately it paints a very negative potential (emphasis on the word "potential") picture for Steve Smith.
This issue is with QB. Would you assume Wayne and Harrison to have the same value if Peyton wasn't playing?
We don't know when Delhomme will return so I'm not sure what that's about. All I'm saying is that I'm not trading Steve Smith now (barring a great offer) and I will play him this week against the Saints.Maybe it's wishful thinking but I think Steve Smith will be alright. Tampa has a good defense and New Orleans doesn't. Reggie Wayne had over 100 yards and 2 tds against them and so did Joey Galloway. Will Steve Smith do the same? Who knows but he's worth the risk to me.I'll admit though that if you are going to trade him thinking he won't be great then it has to be immediately. If David Carr-wreck continues to play poorly and Jake Delhomme misses extensive time then his value goes in the toilet. It's very a risky situation right now and there's many different ways to go about it.
The issue was not with QB in THIS game. The issue was Smith not getting open and the one time he did for a big play, dropping the ball.
You did not answer my question regarding the impact on the Colts WR's if they lost Manning. Can't blame you, because it only proves my point.Smith's drop he had was catchable, but he had a defender's hand obstructing his vision. A catch he normally makes but understandle to a degree. Saying Carr is not the reason for his poor performance is completely inaccurate and not even worthy of discussion. Smith is a huge part of the offense, not getting him involved is suicide. Carr can not make the throws that Delhomme can, and the offense is much worse without him. This is also not open for debate.
I'm not answering your question because it in no way relates to what we were talking about. I will amuse you however since you think there is some point to be gained. 1st of all, it is comical to relate Manning to Jake. If Manning went down, it would be in no way a similar relation because of the scale of player. Furthermore, if Manning went down and his backup came in I would still expect the WRs to play up to normal levels. For example get open and make the catches they would normally make. If they were doing that and the backup was simply missing them, making bad throws ect then I would fault the QB. That is was not the case yesterday with Smith though. He did not get open and dropped catchable balls. The fault is on him just as much as any other player if not more. Irregardless of Carr doing his job or not doing his job yesterday, Smith did not have a good day. In your own words, Smith dropped a pass he normally catches. What is not open for debate is that fact that Smith failed to get open the majority of the day. What is also not up for debate is that yes, Car did try to involve Smith early on. 5 of their 1st 17 plays were directed to Smith. He simply was not getting open and making plays. Like it or not. It's going to happen to even the best players.Seems to me you guys are simply making excuses for Smith who played bellow the level he should have and using Carr as a scapegoat. Again, dropping passes you normally would have caught is not playing up to your potential.
Delhomme may need surgery
One final note on the drop by Smith: Had Carr led him toward the sideline instead of lobbing the pass, Smith would have been in position to catch the ball in stride and keep running. Instead he was fielding the ball like a punt and it slipped through his hands. Carr needed to lead his receiver away from the defender, not lob it over his head. Part of the blame on that incompletion rests with the QB, and that sort of thing is taught at the JR HS level. It's a great example of why the Panthers and Smith miss Delhomme.
The drop-off from Manning to Jake isn't far removed from the drop-off from Delhomme to Carr in my opinion.
Dude, nothing new. Teams don't leave him open, ever. Smith gets blanketed and can drop balls from time to time, but Delhomme KNOWS that he needs to throw to him anyways since big plays will happen. With Smith, the QB just needs to have faith and throw to him.
Enough said.
No, teams don't leave him open on purpose. Normally he is just good enough to get open despite them trying to double him.
Wrong... I watched most of the game... (which I wish I would of watched more of the Chargers and Chiefs). There was a point in the game where the TV announcers said the OL was telling Carr to throw it to Steve Smith and not worry about the pressure they would take care of it. So obvious in their minds he wasn't seeing it enough...
They said during the game yesterday it was a issue he had going into the season. It's a old injury that he has had for a while that sort of flared up.
If you watched the game, you SHOULD realize how horrible Carr is. He's AWFUL. Until his final meaningless drive of the game, IIRC he had about 7 for 26 for 40 yards and 1-2 INTs. Lots of his passes were horribly off the mark. He doesn't know how to use Smith.It seems like you're making an argument overall that Smith is overrated and not that good. To this, I present his history when not injured and with Weinke or Carr not at the helm. I'd say he's quite obviously elite to anyone with an unbiased view.
