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#1 Xenopax

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:35 AM

There's been a lot of conjection on several football boards about the odds of a kneel down to win the game going bad, mostly as an argument around Westbrook downing the ball so they could kneel and win the game. My question is: Has there ever been a case, in the history of the NFL or College Football, of a end-of-game kneel going bad causing the team to lose?



#2 _4_

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:37 AM

No

Joe Montana and Tom Brady have more Super Bowl rings
and Peyton Manning and John Elway and Dan Marino may
have been more classic at how they played the
position. But Brett Favre remains unquestionably the
most popular football player of his time.

And he earned that place in the heart of football fans
for this very reason - he was far from perfect. He was
the superstar who lived next door. He was the
neighbor who forgot to bring back the hedge clippers
but helped dig your car out of the snow.


#3 Lowen1

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:59 AM

I think so.

Eagles vs. Giants in the 70's. Giants tried to kneel down and fumbled it away.

At least something like that happened. I don't recall all the details.

oops, not a kneel down...

From Wiki:

The highlight of Herm Edwards' playing career occurred on November 19, 1978, in the final seconds of a game against the New York Giants at the Meadowlands. The Giants led 17-12 and the Eagles had no time-outs remaining; but instead of simply taking the snap from center and falling on the ball, Giants quarterback Joe Pisarcik attempted to hand the ball off to running back Larry Csonka. However, the ball came loose, and Edwards picked it up and returned it for a touchdown, enabling the Eagles to win 19-17. This play became known in Philadelphia as The Miracle at the Meadowlands and in New York as simply "The Fumble."

#4 Sigmund Bloom

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:01 AM

I swear there was a kneel down in the 80s that the Vikings (?) lost that led to teams always having the "safety" 15 yards back from the LoS on kneel downs.

#5 QuizGuy66

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:03 AM

That game (which I was at - though I was 8 and basically when the play happened got to see well, nothing since all the grown-ups stood up and blocked my view) is the exact reason why you never see anything but the kneel down (and also why there's always one fast guy always back deep behind the QB in case something does go wrong.

Westbrook did the right thing.

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#6 glock

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:28 AM

Would it be considered unnecessary roughness to totally level the QB in an effort to induce a fumble? I would imagine so since it's considered giving oneself up.

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#7 QuizGuy66

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:50 AM

You'd have to reach the QB before he knelt down :excited:

The only scenario where I see the handoff being needed of course would be like at your own 1 or 2 yard line. Then you'd just push the QB forward.

-QG

#8 g5jamz

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 11:24 AM

Fumbled snap is always possible.

#9 Righetti

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:03 PM

I think so.Eagles vs. Giants in the 70's. Giants tried to kneel down and fumbled it away. At least something like that happened. I don't recall all the details.oops, not a kneel down...From Wiki:The highlight of Herm Edwards' playing career occurred on November 19, 1978, in the final seconds of a game against the New York Giants at the Meadowlands. The Giants led 17-12 and the Eagles had no time-outs remaining; but instead of simply taking the snap from center and falling on the ball, Giants quarterback Joe Pisarcik attempted to hand the ball off to running back Larry Csonka. However, the ball came loose, and Edwards picked it up and returned it for a touchdown, enabling the Eagles to win 19-17. This play became known in Philadelphia as The Miracle at the Meadowlands and in New York as simply "The Fumble."

I believe this was a handoff, they were trying to run out the clock, not kneel down.

#10 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 01:56 PM

What I want to see is a defensive guy try and bust through the line to a QB who is spiking the ball and get his foot under the spike, kicking it up into the air for a turnover...

That would be awesome!
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#11 ArlingtonTerp

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 02:42 PM

The Eagles - Giants game was a botched handoff, and it was a run not a kneeldown. They should have been kneeling, as they could just run out the clock. The kneel-down became more popular after that game.

The chance of a bad snap always exists, but it goes down tremendously on a play when all you are doing is focusing on making the snap and downing it. The center and the QB are not thinking ahead to other things.

#12 TommyGilmore

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 02:58 PM

Fumbled snap is always possible.

The odds of a fumbled snap are lower than the odds of the other team scoring twice in 2 minutes.
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#13 prymetyme25

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 03:52 PM

You could however try and time the snap and dive at the football as soon as it moves. But you would really have to time it.

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#14 pizzatyme

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 03:57 PM


Fumbled snap is always possible.

The odds of a fumbled snap are lower than the odds of the other team scoring twice in 2 minutes.

Tell that to Rex Grossman... :rolleyes:
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#15 Tanner9919

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 04:00 PM

There's been a lot of conjection on several football boards about the odds of a kneel down to win the game going bad, mostly as an argument around Westbrook downing the ball so they could kneel and win the game. My question is: Has there ever been a case, in the history of the NFL or College Football, of a end-of-game kneel going bad causing the team to lose?

YES, the Miracle at the Meadowlands

#16 ArlingtonTerp

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 04:20 PM

YES, the Miracle at the Meadowlands

No, that wasn't a kneel-down. (If it was, there would have been no "miracle"). There never has been a loss due to a series of kneel-downs that could truly run out the clock. Has there ever been a fumbled snap on a kneel-down that was recovered by the other team? I don't recall that ever happening either, but if it didn't lead to the kneeling team losing, I can see how that might escape memory.

#17 FreeBaGeL

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 05:00 PM

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned, since it ended up being the difference in a national championship:

Leading #1 Tennessee 24-21 with 1:43 to play, all the Razorbacks needed to do was run 3 plays and run out the clock. Stoerner fumbled the ball on 2nd down, which Tennessee recovered, went on to score and preserve their national championship season with 28-24 victory.


Edited by FreeBaGeL, 17 December 2007 - 05:02 PM.


#18 ArlingtonTerp

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 06:00 PM

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned, since it ended up being the difference in a national championship:


Leading #1 Tennessee 24-21 with 1:43 to play, all the Razorbacks needed to do was run 3 plays and run out the clock. Stoerner fumbled the ball on 2nd down, which Tennessee recovered, went on to score and preserve their national championship season with 28-24 victory.

Yes, but it wasn't a kneel-down either, which is the main issue here. He stumbled over his own lineman as he was trying to make a handoff, and fumbled as a result.

#19 PJHawkeye

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:17 PM

If Coach Nickerson would've just had Rifleman kneel down instead of trying to hand it off, Ampipe never would've lost that game.

:bs:

#20 #1 Chiefs Fan

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:35 PM

I think so.Eagles vs. Giants in the 70's. Giants tried to kneel down and fumbled it away. At least something like that happened. I don't recall all the details.oops, not a kneel down...From Wiki:The highlight of Herm Edwards' playing career occurred on November 19, 1978, in the final seconds of a game against the New York Giants at the Meadowlands. The Giants led 17-12 and the Eagles had no time-outs remaining; but instead of simply taking the snap from center and falling on the ball, Giants quarterback Joe Pisarcik attempted to hand the ball off to running back Larry Csonka. However, the ball came loose, and Edwards picked it up and returned it for a touchdown, enabling the Eagles to win 19-17. This play became known in Philadelphia as The Miracle at the Meadowlands and in New York as simply "The Fumble."

Also better than anything he has done in his coaching career.

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#21 General Tso

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:41 PM

It amazes me how many idiots there are in here. The Post asks a specific question - has a kneeldown ever been fumbled leading to the other team winning. And what responses do we get?? Two examples where the ball was handed off!!!!! Are you people ######ed???? Or just illiterate????

#22 Stompin' Tom Connors

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:31 PM

It amazes me how many idiots there are in here. The Post asks a specific question - has a kneeldown ever been fumbled leading to the other team winning. And what responses do we get?? Two examples where the ball was handed off!!!!! Are you people ######ed???? Or just illiterate????

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