Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Darren McFadden - Break Down the Tape (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ConstruxBoy
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Great game analysis. Thanks
Been waiting for this one.
Very good job.
Did you say many/any of McFaddens other games this year? I'd like to be sure you aren't being unduly influenced by what may be an outlier game. You mention briefly that you think this game is relevent to your overall assessment, I'd just like some idea of how much of him you have seen (either way your one game is one more than I have seen).
Very good job.
Did you say many/any of McFaddens other games this year? I'd like to be sure you aren't being unduly influenced by what may be an outlier game. You mention briefly that you think this game is relevent to your overall assessment, I'd just like some idea of how much of him you have seen (either way your one game is one more than I have seen).
Blood Farmer
Footballguy
Honest assessment of D-Mac's worst case scenario.
" McFadden puts a nice juke fake on the defender and gets around him, but almost loses his balance doing it; the loss of momentum slows him down enough to allow a defender to get to him; he lowers his shoulder, but doesn't move the defender much and goes down."
My thoughts of down side: Isn't elusive, hits hard but doesn't seem to recover from contact.
Now, what is the upside assessment?
My thoughts: Just short of Adrian Peterson's run talent but less of an injury risk. Better all around talent (throw, block, catch) than All Day.
" McFadden puts a nice juke fake on the defender and gets around him, but almost loses his balance doing it; the loss of momentum slows him down enough to allow a defender to get to him; he lowers his shoulder, but doesn't move the defender much and goes down."
My thoughts of down side: Isn't elusive, hits hard but doesn't seem to recover from contact.
Now, what is the upside assessment?
My thoughts: Just short of Adrian Peterson's run talent but less of an injury risk. Better all around talent (throw, block, catch) than All Day.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks!I've seen him quite a bit actually. In one of my fantasy leagues, we're allowed to keep college players until they get to the NFL. I drafted McFadden BEFORE his Sophomore season. So I've been keeping an eye on him both his Sophomore and Junior seasons (FWIW, I also have Jamaal Charles as a consolation after being unable to get Johnathan Stewart from the owner who drafted him BEFORE his Freshman season. Yes, as a High Schooler). So I've seen a large number of his games. I also managed to pick the Arkansas vs. LSU game as the game to break down the tape on Felix Jones, so I'll be watching that game intently for McFadden as well, although writing about Jones. Like I said, he is a great RB, but is not as bullet proof at the next level as many have stated here, IMHO.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Well, the upside is certainly that he can either get a little better/smoother in his jukes or get more power into his game. There's nothing to say that he can't do those things with some coaching/work in the NFL. As people like to say, you can't teach speed and he has a ton of it. I'm just assessing him as an NFL prospect right now with no mini-camp, training camps, ect. I don't think he has as much NFL readiness as guys like Tomlinson, Peterson and Bush. What's funny about the lack of injury risk is that even though the fantasy league I own him in that I mentioned above has two Razorback Alumni, they were worried about the injured toe that he had before his Sophomore season and thought he may be injury prone. Sometimes you win with that line of worry, sometimes you lose.
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
Though I found your analysis a bit negative concerning McFadden, I would have to agree with it for the most part. I think from an NFL prospective that eventhough McFadden is more of a straight line runner, he takes a yard when he can get it instead of trying to juke and that is what you want at the next level.
I'm curious to how you feel about the next best back from an NFL prospective. I traded up for a 5th pick in our dynasty rookie draft and am in a bind about Felix Jones who I think will leave and John Stewart. I know a bit of topic but I concure with your view on McFadden. A huge talent but may not be as high ceiling as a guy like Adrian Peterson when it comes to running the rock.
I'm curious to how you feel about the next best back from an NFL prospective. I traded up for a 5th pick in our dynasty rookie draft and am in a bind about Felix Jones who I think will leave and John Stewart. I know a bit of topic but I concure with your view on McFadden. A huge talent but may not be as high ceiling as a guy like Adrian Peterson when it comes to running the rock.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks. You may be right that it can be better to get that yard than try to juke an NFL defender, but I just wish he was more powerful in getting the yard. As for Jones vs Stewart, right now I like Stewart a little bit better but I need to see more of Jones. Stewart hasn't been as effective since Dixon went down at Oregon, however anytime you have a Heisman-talented QB go down, the offense is going to get stagnant a bit no matter how good the RB is.
gump
Footballguy
Great analysis, construx.
One thing I somewhat disagree with though..."he doesn't have much power".
Watch the Alabama game. While not a top defensive line, UA still has plenty of large men who could end up in the NFL. McFadden ran "straight ahead" for 200 yards. He hits the hole SO FAST and is big enough that he becomes quite a load to bring down, and can do almost nothing and gain 5 yards.
On one play, he hit a wall after a short gain, then carried 6 defenders for another 10 yards.
I think his ability to accelerate as fast as he does, combined with his size, will make him a nice all-around back.
On another note...does he remind people of Dickerson? What kind of short-yardage back was ED?
One thing I somewhat disagree with though..."he doesn't have much power".
Watch the Alabama game. While not a top defensive line, UA still has plenty of large men who could end up in the NFL. McFadden ran "straight ahead" for 200 yards. He hits the hole SO FAST and is big enough that he becomes quite a load to bring down, and can do almost nothing and gain 5 yards.
On one play, he hit a wall after a short gain, then carried 6 defenders for another 10 yards.
I think his ability to accelerate as fast as he does, combined with his size, will make him a nice all-around back.
On another note...does he remind people of Dickerson? What kind of short-yardage back was ED?
I'm a huge Razorback and McFadden fan, but to be fair, it was a couple of o-linemen, not him, that moved the pile further. McFadden is one helluva stiff-armer though. And that one play where he hits the USCE defender square in the shoulders and goes another 5 yards is one of my favorite runs of the year.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks a lot to both of you! I agree that he does have some power gump, and you're certainly correct that the mere physics involved in his acceleration and mass make him a powerful object. It's more that I don't think he uses it well to his advantage. Maybe it's the type of thing that is an instinct. I sometimes think that smaller RBs have it easier in a transition to the NFL because they have always had to develop the instinct to juke before they hit a defender. Sometimes the guys who are bigger are used to being able to run over more defenders in HS and college so they just naturally choose that path when they are presented with the choice during a given run. The problem is that it's so much harder to do that in the NFL. Other than Earl Campbell and Marion Motley, there haven't been many great RBs that could just run someone over. Even as big as Jerome Bettis was, it was his quick feet that helped him avoid huge hits and get lots of extra yards.
I'm looking forward to watching the bowl game and the LSU game I have on tape to see it more. But when you watch him, see if he does this a lot: gets into an open area, a defender is there, lowers his head and plows into the defender instead of trying to juke around him. I think he'd more effective, and probably have a longer career expectancy, if he learned to juke around guys more, especially since he does have a great stiff arm like ryankj pointed out.
Not sure about Dickerson in short yardage, but I remember ED as more of a glider as opposed to a guy with a real great burst.
It was almost like he was moving faster than you thought or than he was timed because it was so smooth. Kevin Smith sort of reminded me of him actually.
I do like the Marcus Allen compare a bit as well. I'll say this: If McFadden has a career rivaling Allen's, then I will have been quite wrong about him.
Not sure you are aware, but he had bruised ribs that game. I'm sure you've seen him more times than just this, but he definitely wasn't himself against Auburn
Brewzers
Footballguy
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
Ok. Really stupid q here. Where is the link for the video?
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Hey Clayton, Yeah, I did read that he was banged up in that game. I know that people that love him are unhappy that I picked this game to do, but those things happen when you tape a game. Like I said, and as I've explained in the other Arkansas coaching threads, I've watched enough of McFadden to know all about his strengths and see some of his weaknesses. This was a great game to see more of his weaknesses, along with some of his strengths. He's still a great running back, he's just not as bullet proof as other people seem to think he is, especially on this website. In my opinion of course.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Not a stupid questions. There is no link for the video unfortunately. This was taken from a game I recorded on my DVR. The NCAA doesn't have full length games available online, so the readers can't see the game. It's a downside to doing it this way, but in my opinion better than last year where I was watching YouTube videos that only showed some of the plays of a RB, almost always runs, and all of them his best plays of the year. Not a lot to be gained by breaking down those.
Mcfaddend moved people several times in the Alabama game. One carry in particular I won't forget. He hit a hole a few yards downfield and someone yelled that somebody threw something. Turns out no one threw anything but when Mcfadden hit the pile he knocked an Alabama player back a few yards an it literallly looked like someone ejected this player from the pile. Go watch that game and that play and tell me he does not run with power.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I don't have that game on tape but I do have the LSU game on tape and I am going to watch the Bowl Game against Missouri. I'll look for his power more. Thanks!
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
From what I've seen of him, his power lies in his acceleration and speed and the physics involved as stated above. He also has very good upper body strength and his stiff arm is a terriffic weapon and teaching can turn it into something devastating, but he seems to be lacking a little in lower body strength. His legs and hips do not show me the drive that he will need to succeed at the next level running between the tackles. I've liked what I've seen of him so far. He has in fact exceeded my expectations of him this year where I was anticipating another case of the SEC eating their own young. McFadden was no longer a surprise to anybody and a lot of very good defenses were keying on him yet he still had success. If his lower body strength matched his upper, he could be as dangerous as any currently playing on Sunday and he may still be able to develop this significantly if he is not yet finished maturing physically. He is IMO the best back in this draft, but I'm not so sure he's any better than the top picks over the last several years. I don't see a talent that exceeds guys I was high on coming into the draft (S.Jackson, R.Brown & ADP). I do like him as much as Addai and more than K.Jones, but situation will determine future success for this guy as much or more than talent.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I think he is the most overrated player in next years draft. If you look at many of his "highlight runs" he has huge gaping holes that Bloom could run through.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Funny I was thinking the same thing, but Bloom would make a pit stop for a Donut.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Taken literally, I doubt it. He will be a starter in the league, and you can't say that about at least 1/3 of the 1st round prospects but I do agree he is a little overrated thanks to ADs production as a rookie. He also seems to be head and shoulders above the other RB prospects, but so did many other "top-flight" RBs before they fizzled out.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Another good point. AD has made everyone overrate McFadden, I think. Should be interesting to see.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Who's AD? Didn't He play Basketball?
Last edited by a moderator:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Yep and his rookie season really messed up expectations:Maroney=Speed said:
Code:
Season Ag Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS+------------------+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----+----+-----+ 1976-77 20 BUF NBA 77 2816 544 1046 476 582 251 336 587 144 91 15 215 1564
EBF
Footballguy
A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and become a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.ConstruxBoy said:Cookiemonster said:I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu
Footballguy
Not if he does the Thomas/Julius Jones workout.A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and be a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.ConstruxBoy said:Cookiemonster said:I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I don't know...I got an email the other day about adding inches to my bone. Maybe he can do the same thing for his legs?A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and become a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.ConstruxBoy said:Cookiemonster said:I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I agree with a lot of the posts on here. I was originally very high on McFadden a couple of years ago when I first saw him, but since then, I also agree that he lacks the "NFL power" to become an elite back. The post above describing how he lacks the push and drive from his lower body explained it perfectly.
To me, McFadden is Steven Jackson with similar talent, but with Jerious Norwood's legs. I still think he could very well become a very successful NFL back, but I don't think he'll ever be anything close to the ELITE backs and I also agree that he is indeed a bust possibility, which is something that many seem to be overlooking. We may end up calling it the "AP factor".
To me, McFadden is Steven Jackson with similar talent, but with Jerious Norwood's legs. I still think he could very well become a very successful NFL back, but I don't think he'll ever be anything close to the ELITE backs and I also agree that he is indeed a bust possibility, which is something that many seem to be overlooking. We may end up calling it the "AP factor".
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
I'll make this easy.AP=Plays for BearsAll Day= Plays for the Vikes. I'm sure you mean the one who plays for the Vikes.So All Day it is.
gump
Footballguy
So you base your opinion of him on SportsCenter?SC doesn't show the "highlight runs" when he beats DBs to the outside and turns the corner, or the 15 yards gains where he blows thru holes that barely exist.People keyed on McFadden on EVERY play...not surprised that his SC reel doesn't impress you.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
the kid is going to be MONEY next season
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I don't base my opinions off of highlight reels. Every time that I have watched McFadden...I am not overly impressed by him. He seems to have a nagging injury, is playing QB and making the read on the backside DE to decide to give it to felix jones or not (something that is a gimmic....not going to happen in the NFL), he runs very upright (for all those that had an issue with AD running upright), he is a very fast accelerating RB straight....however his lateral quickness or quick feet, is not something that he excells in, that goes along with his lateral moves....doesn't have very good agility.Is the kid big......yes.....is the kid fast....yes.There are more than Heisman runner-up, stats, 40 times, and size that go into a RB. One of the most important is instincts and knowing how to use his blockers.....something that I don't believe he has.
gump
Footballguy
That was a better response than your first
As far as being overrated...I'm not sure how you can overrate his combo of speed and strength.
Last edited by a moderator:
Avery
Footballguy
I know it's off the point but I think this post is hilarious from a guy with your screen name.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Well I am not going to hide in a hole. I still think he will do fine behind a decent to good line.......but not with their currently line situation.
So Benson will lead the way as long as he has a good line leading him?
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
A sports car is no good without wheels........I would take a decent line at this point. They better spend at least 2 of their first 4 picks on olineman.....damn...this turned into a high-jack.Dmac is overrated.....for a quick summary.
Avery
Footballguy
Does he look down at the ground when he runs?
Last edited by a moderator:
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
nice...
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
I've gained about 35-40 pounds since I was 21 and stopped gaining by the time I was about 25. I'm guessing about 25 of those pounds were muscle. I wasn't lifting any more than 6 hours a week, and I'm sure these NFL players are working out a little harder than that.Now, how many of you will tell the truth...?Not if he does the Thomas/Julius Jones workout.A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and be a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
EBF
Footballguy
I can guarantee you that Arkansas already has a pretty sophisticated strength and conditioning program. McFadden is almost certainly near maxed out in terms of strength. What you see right now is probably close to a finished product. I stand by my case that he doesn't have a good frame for the position. A guy who is naturally tall and wiry will not suddenly morph into a powerhouse. This is especially true in the case of a player who is almost certainly already working under a rigorous strength and conditioning program.I've gained about 35-40 pounds since I was 21 and stopped gaining by the time I was about 25. I'm guessing about 25 of those pounds were muscle. I wasn't lifting any more than 6 hours a week, and I'm sure these NFL players are working out a little harder than that.Now, how many of you will tell the truth...?Not if he does the Thomas/Julius Jones workout.A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and be a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.
Tick
Footballguy
That's exactly the point. Speed and strength get more players overrated than any other factors on this board IMO.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yeah, my wife sent me the same emailI don't know...I got an email the other day about adding inches to my bone. Maybe he can do the same thing for his legs? :XA skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and become a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.
money.never.sleeps
Footballguy
In response to what EBF wrote above, I agree in the fact that his body type won't change. Peterson is about 6'2 like McFadden but his lower body is in much more proportion to his upper body. I know that McFadden has abnormally small calf muscles and also has a small waist making it easy to see why his thighs are not that large. Being taller does hurt in the fact that your bodies center of gravity isnt going to get as low as you'd probably want to take on defenders for more yards. Having a very similar body type and build/weight to McFadden's I can tell you that he's probably not going to ever have as powerful a lower body as his upper. My calves aren't close to as small as McFadden's but eventhough having a small waist gives you speed and quickness straight ahead it also probably restricts you from gaining that big lower (thigh) area. I believe he's only 21 but I think EBF may be right in the fact he probably would have gained size in his lower body by now at Arkansas. I still believe however that his all around skill will set him apart.
I'm not sure if this was covered but how are his blocking skills? I believe that is very important because it keeps you on the field on 3rd down and could get you more pass catching opportunity along with chances to make plays.
I'm not sure if this was covered but how are his blocking skills? I believe that is very important because it keeps you on the field on 3rd down and could get you more pass catching opportunity along with chances to make plays.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
JohnnyU said:Yeah, my wife sent me the same emailI don't know...I got an email the other day about adding inches to my bone. Maybe he can do the same thing for his legs?A skinny frame is a skinny frame. You can lift all the weights you want, but it's not going to change your bone structure.I don't buy the argument that McFadden is going to beef up and become a powerhouse. What you see is what you get IMO.I think you said it better than I did. It isn't that he isn't strong or tough, it's that he doesn't move piles. And he doesn't move piles because of a lack of strength in the lower body. But as you said, he can always improve that. In fact, if you buy into some of the findings of wdcrob on this site when he posted a great RB analysis, McFadden is the youngest of the top 17 RBs I have ranked in this class, at 21.03 years on Sept 1st, 2008. So he still should have room to grow.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Good news! With the 5th pick, you probably won't find yourself having to make that decision. Both of those guys will be gone.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
His blocking skills are average, in my opinion. He does show some technique and desire in blocking, but not as much as would be needed at the NFL level. Of course, most RBs coming into the NFL need work in this area. One thing he does that is sometimes effective but generally discouraged at the NFL level is go low with a roll block on defenders. This can be effective, but the back can also whiff on a defender as well using this technique. During the game I reviewed, he had a couple of nice roll blocks on blitzers, but then completely whiffed on one as well.money.never.sleeps said:
I know college does not always translate into pro potential and body build can make a difference but give a guy that regularly beat the crap out of SEC defenses on a team that was otherwise not very good with a pretty bad coach and I will take my chances. I think McFadden has a much better chance of being a stud in the pros then say Reggie Bush did when he came out.
