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Lets talk second tier Rookie RB's (1 Viewer)

B

benson_will_lead_the_way

Footballguy
The first tier is Mcfadden, Stewart, and Mendenhal.....whichever order you would like to put them in.

However, the second tier may become the most critical in dynasty worlds.

In this group we have: Felix Jones, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamaal Charles, Chris Johnson, Steve Slaton, Matt Forte.

This is the group that has question marks or else they would be in that top tier.

Felix Jones 6-0 207

Jones is the most explosive RB. Great Speed and lateral movement. Can he run inside? Does he have power? Can he handle the full load without mcfadden? Those are his question marks.

Ray Rice 5-9 205 Rice was the man that brought Rutgers football back. A very marked man that carried that team, but did it wear him down too much with all of those carries? Rice is a great inside runner, that is smart and has good pad level. However, does he have the burst or speed?

Kevin Smith 6-1 211 Smith was amazing for central florida. He appears to be a long strider and resembles an Eric Dickerson like running style. He didn't blow away from defenders, but didn't get caught from behind either. So the main question is....how fast is he really?

Jamaal Charles 6-1 205 Charles has no questions with speed because he is a sprinter on his texas track team. But can he run inside and is he fully developed?

Chris Johnson 5-11 195 Johnson, like Charles, has no questions about his speed. It is his inside running and bad week in Mobile that people are questioning.

Steve Slaton 5-10 190 People remember the Sugar Bowl and thought great things for Slaton in the future. He had two great years in college, followed by one average year. What happened? Was it Slaton or did defenses figure out the system?

Matt Forte 6-2 223 Forte was very productive at Tulane and has shown many skills. His question is his speed. I compare him to Brian Leonard, a jack of all trades kind of guy.

I gave each guy a slight introduction....but where do you see all these players ranked?

 
Good post.... I have been questioning this as well since i will be sitting at 1.5. I like Rice, Felix, and Charles. They all have different styles, which makes me believe that it will depend on what team they play for in the NFL. That will help me with my draft strategy.

I can say this... whoever is taken by Hou, Sea, or Cle will be rated very high on my board

 
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :hophead:
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Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
 
Felix Jones is in the same group as the first 3 for sure. Some, including me, think Felix Jones is actually better than one or two of those guys in the first group.

 
I don't know where Mike Hart belongs in the 2nd tier, but he belongs there too. I'd much rather have him than either Slaton or Charles.

 
MAC_32 said:
I don't know where Mike Hart belongs in the 2nd tier, but he belongs there too. I'd much rather have him than either Slaton or Charles.
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I would put Hart and Choice in the conversation. Not Forsett.
 
So out of the 2nd tier who would you all say is the best combination of explosive running and pass blocking? We all know rookie RB's time is limited during their initial seasons for lack of pass blocking as much as anything else.

 
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MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :scared:
Click to expand...
Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
 
I think Austin Scott could end up in this tier as well.

I'm not sure if he's going to the combine but I could see some team take a shot with him ala A. Bradshaw.

 
1. I believe F. Jones should be in the top tier.

2. Is there a WR you would consider before any of the second tier?

my Ranking of second tier

Rice

Smith

Charles

Manningham

Johnson

Forte

Slaton

 
The combine looms large for these guys. I need to know some things before I finalize my rankings:

How big are Charles and Johnson?

How well do Rice, Choice, Forte, and Smith do in the drills?

I have a pretty good idea of where I'll ultimately rank these guys, but there are still some missing data points.

 
There are many different ways we could break down this tier.

Who has the highest ceiling?

Who has the highest floor?

Boom or Bust?

based on which team situation they are drafted into?

etc.

 
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Felix Jones 6-0 207Jones is the most explosive RB. Great Speed and lateral movement. Can he run inside? Does he have power? Can he handle the full load without mcfadden? Those are his question marks.
Click to expand...
I would put Jones solidly atop this list, but a notch below Stewart in terms of overall potential.I've heard some people compare Felix Jones to Westbrook, which is a decent comparison, but there are some flaws in that line of thinking. Jones is much faster, and also has better acceleration. Westbrook, meanwhile is a much more slippery runner and of course, it's a little unfair to compare any other RB's pass-catching abilities to Westy's. Also, Westbrook is shorter and stockier.A more valid comparison may infact be... wait for it... Reggie Bush. He doesn't dance around as much as Bush does, but his slipperiness and ability to run between the tackles might come under question, similarly to Bush. He doesn't have the ridiculous agility Bush has, but Jones has excellent timed speed and football speed. He isn't quite as cut as Reggie either, but in terms of measurables, he is nearly identical. I see Jones becoming a mix of what Bush is right now and what Westbrook has become. He may not be as big of a weapon in the passing game (depends on the team he goes to), but he has solid hands and works very well in open spaces. He has underrated strength (for his build) and good vision, evident by the way he finds the open space, seemingly with ease. His production against good-great SEC defenses is impressive, even if it was in part due to a gimmick offense. He outperformed virtually every single RB in college during his last two seasons in terms of efficiency.
 
Brutis said:
I would add Tashard Choice to this list.
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I expect him to shoot up draftnick boards by draft day. I think he's already quite high on NFL franchise draft boards. We'll see he how he measures, but with what little reading I've done so far, he's one player I think is very underrated by fans and pundits at the moment.eta: settle down, Construx. :thumbdown:
 
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benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Ray Rice 5-9 205 Rice was the man that brought Rutgers football back. A very marked man that carried that team, but did it wear him down too much with all of those carries? Rice is a great inside runner, that is smart and has good pad level. However, does he have the burst or speed?
Click to expand...
The comarison to Frank Gore is a valid one, although we don't yet know if Rice can run a sub-4.6 assuming he shows up at the combine at 215+, which I would think he will. He is a great runner in between the tackles and was very productive doing so at Rutgers. The level of competition he faced wasn't great, but it isn't as if he had the greatest O-line in college, and he wasn't just running to the edge and around defenses. The ONLY question I have is explosiveness at the next level, and his combine results will be the difference between him being drafted in the 2nd Round and perhaps the 4th. For this I would be more interested in his split times in the 40 yd dash, or even some of the other drills that display agility rather than top-end speed. I have confidence he can become a solid fantasy RB2 if he ends up in the right system. While Rice only has one red flag in my mind, it's a big one, so we'll just have to wait and see...
 
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :confused:
Click to expand...
Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
See Tinker Bell comparison, Charles is his clone.
Click to expand...
Aside from the fact that they have almost nothing in common, you are absolutely correct. Furthermore, Bell was RB4 in his draft.
 
aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Ray Rice 5-9 205 Rice was the man that brought Rutgers football back. A very marked man that carried that team, but did it wear him down too much with all of those carries? Rice is a great inside runner, that is smart and has good pad level. However, does he have the burst or speed?
Click to expand...
The comarison to Frank Gore is a valid one, although we don't yet know if Rice can run a sub-4.6 assuming he shows up at the combine at 215+, which I would think he will. He is a great runner in between the tackles and was very productive doing so at Rutgers. The level of competition he faced wasn't great, but it isn't as if he had the greatest O-line in college, and he wasn't just running to the edge and around defenses. The ONLY question I have is explosiveness at the next level, and his combine results will be the difference between him being drafted in the 2nd Round and perhaps the 4th. For this I would be more interested in his split times in the 40 yd dash, or even some of the other drills that display agility rather than top-end speed. I have confidence he can become a solid fantasy RB2 if he ends up in the right system. While Rice only has one red flag in my mind, it's a big one, so we'll just have to wait and see...
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the liability in the passing game. Regardless of his explosiveness his upside will be that of a 2 down back.
 
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
See Tinker Bell comparison, Charles is his clone.
Click to expand...
Aside from the fact that they have almost nothing in common, you are absolutely correct. Furthermore, Bell was RB4 in his draft.
Click to expand...
Comparing Tinker Bell's position drafted to Charles' is irrelevant. Tinker Bell's draft class wasn't as strong as this one, not even close. Outside of Steven Jackson the best talent's have ended up being KJ, Julie Jones, Derrick Ward, and maybe Michael Turner - we'll see. You're entitled to your Jamaal Charles is not a Tinker Bell clone, I disagree. That's all.

 
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Chris Johnson 5-11 195 Johnson, like Charles, has no questions about his speed. It is his inside running and bad week in Mobile that people are questioning.
Click to expand...
The first player that comes to mind in comparing Chris Johnson to an NFL talent is Devin Hester (with hands). Doesn't exactly bode well for a workhorse RB. But that's not how he'll be used in the NFL. For this reason, Johnson will be drafted higher in the NFL draft than he should be in fantasy drafts. His toughness and lack of experience running between the tackles in college leaves much to be desired. Much like a bigger back who naturally will try to bowl over defenders, he will naturally be the kind of scatback that will be trying to run around defenders, limiting his playing time in the pros. IMO, he will be a better offensive weapon than Hester because of his pass-catching ability, but his inexperience running in tight spaces will doom him to be nothing more than potentially a RB2 in a PPR league, or one that gives bonus points for Return yardage/TDs.
 
MAC_32 said:
aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Ray Rice 5-9 205 Rice was the man that brought Rutgers football back. A very marked man that carried that team, but did it wear him down too much with all of those carries? Rice is a great inside runner, that is smart and has good pad level. However, does he have the burst or speed?
Click to expand...
The comarison to Frank Gore is a valid one, although we don't yet know if Rice can run a sub-4.6 assuming he shows up at the combine at 215+, which I would think he will. He is a great runner in between the tackles and was very productive doing so at Rutgers. The level of competition he faced wasn't great, but it isn't as if he had the greatest O-line in college, and he wasn't just running to the edge and around defenses. The ONLY question I have is explosiveness at the next level, and his combine results will be the difference between him being drafted in the 2nd Round and perhaps the 4th. For this I would be more interested in his split times in the 40 yd dash, or even some of the other drills that display agility rather than top-end speed. I have confidence he can become a solid fantasy RB2 if he ends up in the right system. While Rice only has one red flag in my mind, it's a big one, so we'll just have to wait and see...
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the liability in the passing game. Regardless of his explosiveness his upside will be that of a 2 down back.
Click to expand...
I'll concede that he did not show much in the way of coming out of the backfield for screens, but that's partly because that was Brian Leonard's job during Rice's Sophmore year. His inexperience there will hurt him. Do you think he is that bad of a pass blocker? I think he can be decent, if not above average in that phase of the game.
 
aposulli said:
MAC_32 said:
aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Ray Rice 5-9 205 Rice was the man that brought Rutgers football back. A very marked man that carried that team, but did it wear him down too much with all of those carries? Rice is a great inside runner, that is smart and has good pad level. However, does he have the burst or speed?
Click to expand...
The comarison to Frank Gore is a valid one, although we don't yet know if Rice can run a sub-4.6 assuming he shows up at the combine at 215+, which I would think he will. He is a great runner in between the tackles and was very productive doing so at Rutgers. The level of competition he faced wasn't great, but it isn't as if he had the greatest O-line in college, and he wasn't just running to the edge and around defenses. The ONLY question I have is explosiveness at the next level, and his combine results will be the difference between him being drafted in the 2nd Round and perhaps the 4th. For this I would be more interested in his split times in the 40 yd dash, or even some of the other drills that display agility rather than top-end speed. I have confidence he can become a solid fantasy RB2 if he ends up in the right system. While Rice only has one red flag in my mind, it's a big one, so we'll just have to wait and see...
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the liability in the passing game. Regardless of his explosiveness his upside will be that of a 2 down back.
Click to expand...
I'll concede that he did not show much in the way of coming out of the backfield for screens, but that's partly because that was Brian Leonard's job during Rice's Sophmore year. His inexperience there will hurt him. Do you think he is that bad of a pass blocker? I think he can be decent, if not above average in that phase of the game.
Click to expand...
I am not confident, I'll say that. If he had the capability you'd have thought Rutgers would have used him more in 3rd down and obvious passing situations, but they did not. Leads me to believe Schiano and the Rutgers staff knows something we don't. Regardless of whether he can pick it up in the long term or not, he is inexperienced in that area and is already behind the curve in that area than his competition. Until proven otherwise he is Rudi Johnson upside in my book. I'm anxious to see what he does in the 40 and short shuttle in the combine and read/see how he does in the passing game in preseason/TC.
 
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :thumbdown:
Click to expand...
Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
See Tinker Bell comparison, Charles is his clone.
Click to expand...
Aside from the fact that they have almost nothing in common, you are absolutely correct. Furthermore, Bell was RB4 in his draft.
Click to expand...
Comparing Tinker Bell's position drafted to Charles' is irrelevant. Tinker Bell's draft class wasn't as strong as this one, not even close. Outside of Steven Jackson the best talent's have ended up being KJ, Julie Jones, Derrick Ward, and maybe Michael Turner - we'll see. You're entitled to your Jamaal Charles is not a Tinker Bell clone, I disagree. That's all.
Click to expand...
Charles final College year: 6.3 ypc, 18 TDs. Charles size: 6'1, 205.

Charles speed (est) 4.3 - 4.4

Bell's final College year: 6py, 16 TDs

Bell's size: 5'10, 210

Bell's Speed: 4.42

You brought it up, so I'll ask again: what about Jamaal Charles, aside from being in the Big 12 like Bell, is remotely similar to Tatum Bell? Charles is faster and runs MUCH better outside.

 
Wondering what scenario has panned out better in the past.

The player that was under the radar then moves up after the combine and draft. Great combine results or drafted by a team that many think he could start for right away.

Top rated running back going by college career and projected top 4-10 RB before combine and nfl team status. A player that is thought of as a great football player on the field, not real great combine results or drafted by an nfl team not needing a RB to start right away.

 
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Matt Forte 6-2 223 Forte was very productive at Tulane and has shown many skills. His question is his speed. I compare him to Brian Leonard, a jack of all trades kind of guy.
Click to expand...
Brian Leonard is a very fair comparison. Forte, like most RBs his size, has subpar speed and explosiveness. One thing he has going for him is that he is probably the best blocker in this tier of RBs and has experience in the passing game, unlike Rice and Kevin Smith. He is an all-around solild RB who will probably stick around the league for awhile as a primary backup, but his ceiling is very low IMO as I just don't think he will measure up in the combine drills. Consider him as valuable as Brian Leonard.
 
Well I like Charles' potential as a mid second round pick. Charles can move right into a 3rd down/change of pace role on a team with a 2 down back. His frame and the ability for him to grow into it will tell whether or not he becomes an elite everydown stud (albeit a dying breed in the current platoon loving NFL) Teams that I could see drafting Charles (Cleveland, Arizona, Dallas, Chicago, Tenn, SF off the top of my head).

 
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Kevin Smith 6-1 211 Smith was amazing for central florida. He appears to be a long strider and resembles an Eric Dickerson like running style. He didn't blow away from defenders, but didn't get caught from behind either. So the main question is....how fast is he really?
Click to expand...
I think he is quick enough laterally as well as downfield to succeed as an everydown 'back in the NFL. Not to mention he has the endurance to be a bellcow. The flaw I see in Smith is perhaps his running form. As you mentioned, he has very long strides. It seems to affect his balance, and in turn- his inabilty to break through hits he takes below the waist. He doesn't run extremely upright, but something about his instint to break tackles just isn't there. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and perhaps this running style isn't all that odd- after all, it did work for Dickerson. I think some team will take a chance on him in Round 2 or 3. I can see him sticking around the league and flashing potential to be an every-down 'back, but being more of a DeShaun Foster-type.
 
aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Matt Forte 6-2 223 Forte was very productive at Tulane and has shown many skills. His question is his speed. I compare him to Brian Leonard, a jack of all trades kind of guy.
Click to expand...
Brian Leonard is a very fair comparison. Forte, like most RBs his size, has subpar speed and explosiveness. One thing he has going for him is that he is probably the best blocker in this tier of RBs and has experience in the passing game, unlike Rice and Kevin Smith. He is an all-around solild RB who will probably stick around the league for awhile as a primary backup, but his ceiling is very low IMO as I just don't think he will measure up in the combine drills. Consider him as valuable as Brian Leonard.
Click to expand...
Forte is a better runner than Leonard. He's smoother and quicker with much better hips. He's like a poor man's Deuce and he has the potential to be a fringe starter in the NFL. He's flying a bit under the radar right now, but will probably be a consensus top 12 pick come rookie drafts.
 
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Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
MAC_32 said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I'd have Felix Jones and Jamaal Charles in a different tier then Jon Stewart. :wub:
Click to expand...
Maybe not Felix, but definitely Charles. I don't even think Charles belongs in the 2nd tier, but I'm sure to be the minority there.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
See Tinker Bell comparison, Charles is his clone.
Click to expand...
Aside from the fact that they have almost nothing in common, you are absolutely correct. Furthermore, Bell was RB4 in his draft.
Click to expand...
Comparing Tinker Bell's position drafted to Charles' is irrelevant. Tinker Bell's draft class wasn't as strong as this one, not even close. Outside of Steven Jackson the best talent's have ended up being KJ, Julie Jones, Derrick Ward, and maybe Michael Turner - we'll see. You're entitled to your Jamaal Charles is not a Tinker Bell clone, I disagree. That's all.
Click to expand...
Charles final College year: 6.3 ypc, 18 TDs. Charles size: 6'1, 205.

Charles speed (est) 4.3 - 4.4

Bell's final College year: 6py, 16 TDs

Bell's size: 5'10, 210

Bell's Speed: 4.42

You brought it up, so I'll ask again: what about Jamaal Charles, aside from being in the Big 12 like Bell, is remotely similar to Tatum Bell? Charles is faster and runs MUCH better outside.
Click to expand...
Christ, am I not allowed to have a different opinion than you? Did I miss the memo?Like Tinker Bell, CHarles struggles running between the tackles and is a liability in the passing game. I find it hard to believe you can confidently call Charles faster than Tinker Bell based on him running a nose faster in a 40 without pads, they're both fast. His game is going to be very limited at the next level. Great college RB, not a good pro. If he were a late 3rd/early 4th round pick with plans of using him as a change of pace back, fine, but I believe some team will pick him up in the 2nd with other plans. If this draft class weren't so stacked at the position he may have even been a 1st rounder.

 
EBF said:
aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Matt Forte 6-2 223 Forte was very productive at Tulane and has shown many skills. His question is his speed. I compare him to Brian Leonard, a jack of all trades kind of guy.
Click to expand...
Brian Leonard is a very fair comparison. Forte, like most RBs his size, has subpar speed and explosiveness. One thing he has going for him is that he is probably the best blocker in this tier of RBs and has experience in the passing game, unlike Rice and Kevin Smith. He is an all-around solild RB who will probably stick around the league for awhile as a primary backup, but his ceiling is very low IMO as I just don't think he will measure up in the combine drills. Consider him as valuable as Brian Leonard.
Click to expand...
Forte is a better runner than Leonard. He's smoother and quicker with much better hips. He's like a poor man's Deuce and he has the potential to be a fringe starter in the NFL. He's flying a bit under the radar right now, but will probably be a consensus top 12 pick come rookie drafts.
Click to expand...
Funny, Deuce McAllister was the first player that came to mind when I looked at his build, running style and versatility. Unfortunately, Deuce was a freakishly explosive player once upon a time, and could run a 4.45 and was more much more explosive than Forte.So a poor man's Deuce, I'll take. Granted those are his best runs from last year, I've probably sold him short in saying his ceiling is "very low." If he times well in the combine I'd definitely reconsider moving him up.

 
aposulli said:
EBF said:
aposulli said:
Matt Forte 6-2 223 Forte was very productive at Tulane and has shown many skills. His question is his speed. I compare him to Brian Leonard, a jack of all trades kind of guy.
Click to expand...
Brian Leonard is a very fair comparison. Forte, like most RBs his size, has subpar speed and explosiveness. One thing he has going for him is that he is probably the best blocker in this tier of RBs and has experience in the passing game, unlike Rice and Kevin Smith. He is an all-around solild RB who will probably stick around the league for awhile as a primary backup, but his ceiling is very low IMO as I just don't think he will measure up in the combine drills. Consider him as valuable as Brian Leonard.
Click to expand...
Forte is a better runner than Leonard. He's smoother and quicker with much better hips. He's like a poor man's Deuce and he has the potential to be a fringe starter in the NFL. He's flying a bit under the radar right now, but will probably be a consensus top 12 pick come rookie drafts.
Click to expand...
I like Forte. I think people are mistaken when they call him a 'tweener. Make no mistake about it, he's a RB. Is he going to be great in the NFL? Probably not. He doesn't really have the special athletic qualities needed to be a star. But he's a very fluid runner for a taller guy. He has that ability to plant his feet and shift his weight to change direction and make guys miss (see the subtle cuts at about 0:26 and 0:38 in that video to see what I'm talking about). He's not really a guy I'll be going out of my way to target this year since I usually aim for players who have more "stud" potential, but I think he's going to be a solid pro with the potential to make surprising contributions right away. There's even an outside chance that he could become a starter type and I certainly like him more than guys like Hunt and Leonard last year. I look for him to go between picks 55-90 on draft day. I would like to see him go to a team like Pittsburgh or Carolina where he would make a nice relief pitcher for the scatback starter.

 
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aposulli said:
benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Felix Jones 6-0 207Jones is the most explosive RB. Great Speed and lateral movement. Can he run inside? Does he have power? Can he handle the full load without mcfadden? Those are his question marks.
Click to expand...
I would put Jones solidly atop this list, but a notch below Stewart in terms of overall potential.I've heard some people compare Felix Jones to Westbrook, which is a decent comparison, but there are some flaws in that line of thinking. Jones is much faster, and also has better acceleration. Westbrook, meanwhile is a much more slippery runner and of course, it's a little unfair to compare any other RB's pass-catching abilities to Westy's. Also, Westbrook is shorter and stockier.A more valid comparison may infact be... wait for it... Reggie Bush. He doesn't dance around as much as Bush does, but his slipperiness and ability to run between the tackles might come under question, similarly to Bush. He doesn't have the ridiculous agility Bush has, but Jones has excellent timed speed and football speed. He isn't quite as cut as Reggie either, but in terms of measurables, he is nearly identical. I see Jones becoming a mix of what Bush is right now and what Westbrook has become. He may not be as big of a weapon in the passing game (depends on the team he goes to), but he has solid hands and works very well in open spaces. He has underrated strength (for his build) and good vision, evident by the way he finds the open space, seemingly with ease. His production against good-great SEC defenses is impressive, even if it was in part due to a gimmick offense. He outperformed virtually every single RB in college during his last two seasons in terms of efficiency.
Click to expand...
I love this comparision to Bush, it is similiar. The thing with Jones is...how good COULD he be? The unknown factor is what is luring in people.
 
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