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2008 Rookie WR Discussion (1 Viewer)

az_prof

az_prof

Footballguy
We have talked alot about McFAdden, Mendenhall, STewart, Rice, Jones, Smith, Charles, etc. How about the WRs? I have heard that this is a weak year for WRs, but if you are drafting in the late first or early second you are likely going to have to consider a WR. So, who is it? Which of the WRs in this rookie class impress you and why? Did the Combine change your impressions? http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pmI...VI4c2PL9RGuNzfQ

I don't like my WRs to be less than 185, so Jackson at less than 170 fell way down my charts. His broad jump at only 10' also raises questions about his leg strength.

Andre Caldwell from FL had a very good Combine but I don't know much about him; would appreciate hearing from people who watched FL play alot.

Arman Shields from Richmond put in an amazing overall Combine performance. Anyone have the dope on him?

I like the overall package James Hardy offers and it seems like he has a legitimate chance at being a first round pick now. Did he move ahead of kelly?

Sweed is another guy who has gotten attention: his forty and high jump are not great but are at or above the threshold of what you hope to see--so he didn't help himself but he didn't hurt himself either.

Neither Doucet or Kelly participated.

So, where do you see these players going in your dynasty rookie drafts? At this point I would have a hard time deciding between Kelly or Hardy and Shields is a guy that bears watching as a sleeper.

 
az_prof said:
EBF said:
Ask me again in ten weeks. :thumbup:
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That's pretty coy EBF. You are trying to keep your sleepers under wraps are you? :shock: You can tell us some of what you think without giving away the whole store.
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I play in lots of money leagues with people who haunt these boards so I do try to keep some of my bigger gems under wraps until after a few of my drafts are done. I think there are some interesting guys in the rounds 1-4 range this year who will offer nice value in rookie drafts. For now I'll leave it at that, but I'll have more to say on individual players at a later time.
 
I used to hope the Bills would take a WR in the 1st round this year because it is such a big need for them. But now I'm thinking there will be excellent value in the 2nd round when they pick. Someone like Thomas or Hardy (or even Kelly) might slip to thier pick.

Jackson will go in the 1st for sure, and possibly 1st WR taken, because of his return ability like Ginn.

 
Mr. Peterson said:
Jackson will go in the 1st for sure, and possibly 1st WR taken, because of his return ability like Ginn.
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This could be the very reason he drops in this year's draft, which is unfortunate, because in my opinion, he is a much better receiver than Ginn.
 
JPeso said:
Mr. Peterson said:
Jackson will go in the 1st for sure, and possibly 1st WR taken, because of his return ability like Ginn.
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This could be the very reason he drops in this year's draft, which is unfortunate, because in my opinion, he is a much better receiver than Ginn.
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I just can't see a 168 pound WR making it in the NFL. Dante Hall couldn't make it. It is small even for A-class High School!
 
Keep an eye on Todd Blythe. If he lands on the right roster he could make a nice late round steal.

At 6-5 215 he knows how to use his body and has great hands. He has an uncanny ability to get the jump ball. He has deceptive speed and reminds me alot of Ed McCaffrey (sp?)

 
jAMES Hardy is the clear #1 WR in this class. Will be a redzone beast. Think Antonio Gates but always lining up as a WR.

Anyone calling Kelly/Sweed the best prospect is blowing smoke.

When the NFL draft happens Hardy will be the 1st or 2nd WR off the board, and i'll guarantee it.

Edited to say Jackson might be the 1st WR taken, but only due to his return ability. His draft position will be inflated due to that aspect.

 
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az_prof said:
JPeso said:
Mr. Peterson said:
Jackson will go in the 1st for sure, and possibly 1st WR taken, because of his return ability like Ginn.
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This could be the very reason he drops in this year's draft, which is unfortunate, because in my opinion, he is a much better receiver than Ginn.
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I just can't see a 168 pound WR making it in the NFL. Dante Hall couldn't make it. It is small even for A-class High School!
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Isnt Marvin Harrison around that much? Obviously Jackson isnt the receiver Harrison is but I dont think its fair to just judge on their weight
 
DarabZarrabi said:
az_prof said:
JPeso said:
Mr. Peterson said:
Jackson will go in the 1st for sure, and possibly 1st WR taken, because of his return ability like Ginn.
Click to expand...
This could be the very reason he drops in this year's draft, which is unfortunate, because in my opinion, he is a much better receiver than Ginn.
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I just can't see a 168 pound WR making it in the NFL. Dante Hall couldn't make it. It is small even for A-class High School!
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Isnt Marvin Harrison around that much? Obviously Jackson isnt the receiver Harrison is but I dont think its fair to just judge on their weight
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168 vs 185 is a big difference.Welker/Steve Smith/Harrison are all listed as 185.

I don't think height has much of an impact. You can overcome that. But if he's triyng to bulk up (why wouldn't he, people will use it against him and cost him $$$) and 168 is as far as he got? That's not good news.

 
I am not one who studies the college guys in great detail so I'm not sure I am much help. I am of the opinion that combine results are highly over rated so I think a guy like Manningham may actually be a solid value if most people drop him down due to his combine results.

A couple of things I look for at WR over combine results are that I like guys who have had 2-4 years of good numbers at college. The guys with a great senior year that did not do much before that scare me a bit because there is not a lot to judge them on. I will also take a WR who runs solid routes, can get separation and has great hands over any combine results. I'm not sure who fits that criteria the best but that is what I will be looking at as the draft approaches.

 
Limp Dogg Bizkits said:
Keep an eye on Todd Blythe. If he lands on the right roster he could make a nice late round steal.At 6-5 215 he knows how to use his body and has great hands. He has an uncanny ability to get the jump ball. He has deceptive speed and reminds me alot of Ed McCaffrey (sp?)
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Substitute Jordy Nelson for Blythe & I was thinking the exact same thing.Similar guys in many respects, with the exception of a few extra inches of height for Blythe
 
We have a clear top 5.

Hardy

Kelly

Sweed

Jackson

D.Thomas

All the above have big time potential. Jackson is small but he can be a Santana Moss type in the right offense. Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.

 
moderated said:
We have a clear top 5.HardyKellySweedJacksonD.ThomasAll the above have big time potential. Jackson is small but he can be a Santana Moss type in the right offense. Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
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The fact that I and probably many people totally disagree with this list means that we really don't have a clear anything at WR this year.
 
EBF said:
moderated said:
Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
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:lmao:
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Very true.Hardy has great size, uses his body to shield defenders off in the endzone better than any reciever i've ever seen at any level (Gates is the only one who can compare to him in this regard), ran a much better than expected 40, for a guy his size he aced the other combine drills, and has big strong amazing hands.There really isn't much not to like about Hardy, he also has great character. Just watch as we get closer to draft time how much buzz this guy gets, sooner or later the cat will be let out of the bag and we'll start seeing him get a lot more respect from draft pundits.
 
jurb26 said:
moderated said:
We have a clear top 5.HardyKellySweedJacksonD.ThomasAll the above have big time potential. Jackson is small but he can be a Santana Moss type in the right offense. Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
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The fact that I and probably many people totally disagree with this list means that we really don't have a clear anything at WR this year.
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Once the NFL draft happens we'll see how clear it is, after Hardy i could see the others going in any order, but those are our top 5 drafted WR's.
 
Chaos Commish said:
EBF said:
moderated said:
Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
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:excited:
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He's wrong. Devin Thomas is clearly the #1 WR in this class. He is a lock to be the first WR off the board. It's so obvious it's not worth discussing at this point. Hardy could very easily fall out of the top 5. Very easily. Rite it Down!
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Wrong again. Mario Manningham silenced the critics with his blazing timed speed and is easily lapping the rest of the WR field at this point. He's the first receiver off the board in April. Bank on it. :lmao: Seriously though, I just don't see how anyone can claim a consensus top WR at this point. Kelly is my pick and I think he'll be the first receiver off the board, but the gap between him and 4-5 other guys is narrow enough to where different teams will prefer different guys. You can make a pretty good case for Kelly, Jackson, Thomas, Hardy, Sweed, and maybe even Doucet. I'm actually impressed with the depth at WR this year. There's a lot of talent out there.
 
moderated said:
EBF said:
moderated said:
Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
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Very true.Hardy has great size, uses his body to shield defenders off in the endzone better than any reciever i've ever seen at any level (Gates is the only one who can compare to him in this regard), ran a much better than expected 40, for a guy his size he aced the other combine drills, and has big strong amazing hands.There really isn't much not to like about Hardy, he also has great character. Just watch as we get closer to draft time how much buzz this guy gets, sooner or later the cat will be let out of the bag and we'll start seeing him get a lot more respect from draft pundits.
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It's possible that he'll be the first WR taken. But the gap between him and some of the other top prospects looks miminal at this point, meaning it's a bit premature to anoint him the consensus top rookie receiver.
 
moderated said:
EBF said:
moderated said:
Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
Click to expand...
Very true.Hardy has great size, uses his body to shield defenders off in the endzone better than any reciever i've ever seen at any level (Gates is the only one who can compare to him in this regard), ran a much better than expected 40, for a guy his size he aced the other combine drills, and has big strong amazing hands.There really isn't much not to like about Hardy, he also has great character. Just watch as we get closer to draft time how much buzz this guy gets, sooner or later the cat will be let out of the bag and we'll start seeing him get a lot more respect from draft pundits.
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I dig this stuff. Your confidence is awesome here. I was just poking fun at your approach above. I think opinions are so all over the place right now that you could have this right, which would be fine with me, and kind of impressive of you. I've admired Hardy for a long time. I wish Kelly participated in the Combine. This will be fun to follow.
 
Also, whenever I am undecided on how to rank these not quite rookies, I ask myself a very simple question. Who would I want on my favorite team? That question led me to prefer Ellis to Dorsey, almost to my own surprise.

So, I ask myself, I have to pick the top receiver in this class to be signed and suited up by my favorite team, who do I choose?

Answer: Ugh. I dunno. :lmao:

 
EBF said:
Seriously though, I just don't see how anyone can claim a consensus top WR at this point. Kelly is my pick and I think he'll be the first receiver off the board, but the gap between him and 4-5 other guys is narrow enough to where different teams will prefer different guys. You can make a pretty good case for Kelly, Jackson, Thomas, Hardy, Sweed, and maybe even Doucet. I'm actually impressed with the depth at WR this year. There's a lot of talent out there.
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Doucet is the most over-rated WR in the class and doesn't belong in the discussion as one of the top teir IMO.He is still living off his reputation coming out of high school it seems. He never impressed much in college and is one of the more gimpy WR's out there. Always banged up and never looked that good even when he played.I guess at this time people can make a case for some other WR's, but i don't think there is much debate within NFL circles and once the NFL draft happens it will be clear to everyone who the most highly touted WR is.Hardy is a beast and pre-combine his 40 time was the thing people were worried about, some thought he'd run in the 4.6's, he silenced all those doubts by running a sub 4.5 time which is amazing given his size and strength.
 
I like Thomas as well...I also like Douglas although he's not the primary threat type that goes in the 1st round.

 
moderated said:
We have a clear top 5.HardyKellySweedJacksonD.ThomasAll the above have big time potential. Jackson is small but he can be a Santana Moss type in the right offense. Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
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I bet this guy has his Hardy jersey on right now as we speak!!!
 
Chaos Commish said:
moderated said:
EBF said:
moderated said:
Hardy is the clear #1 in this class BY FAR. He'll go in the top 15 picks in the NFL draft for sure, very possibly top 10.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
Click to expand...
Very true.Hardy has great size, uses his body to shield defenders off in the endzone better than any reciever i've ever seen at any level (Gates is the only one who can compare to him in this regard), ran a much better than expected 40, for a guy his size he aced the other combine drills, and has big strong amazing hands.There really isn't much not to like about Hardy, he also has great character. Just watch as we get closer to draft time how much buzz this guy gets, sooner or later the cat will be let out of the bag and we'll start seeing him get a lot more respect from draft pundits.
Click to expand...
I dig this stuff. Your confidence is awesome here. I was just poking fun at your approach above. I think opinions are so all over the place right now that you could have this right, which would be fine with me, and kind of impressive of you. I've admired Hardy for a long time. I wish Kelly participated in the Combine. This will be fun to follow.
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I will say this, Jackson might be the first "WR" off the board, but that is due to him being a dynamic return man. But looking at is from a pure WR standpoint he's not in Hardy's league.Kelly is an interesting prospect and i do like him, but i just can't see any areas where he eclipses Hardy and in the red-zone Hardy is just a monster.
 
Wildman said:
I like Thomas as well...I also like Douglas although he's not the primary threat type that goes in the 1st round.
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'Douglas's fearlessness and Brohm's high throws almost got that kid killed a dozen times last year. He's pretty amazing, but I wonder how it translates. He certainly cannot continue to take the kind of pounding I saw over and over this past season. I do believe Thomas is probably the top WR on most (not all) teams boards today, but I don't think moderated is crazy here. I have a very high opinon of Hardy, and I have been mostly quiet on the topic since early in the season. He has some Brandon Marshall in him, but bigger. He has a crazy stiff arm, elite hands, a basketball player's body control, and 4.4 speed now. It's a good argument. I'm intrigued by the idea but Thomas's total package seems to stand out of this crowd a little right now, and Kelly is yet to be weighed and measured. This is a great group of receivers to pick and choose from. I like a lot of them.
 
duece2626 said:
I bet this guy has his Hardy jersey on right now as we speak!!!
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Whatever team drafts him will eventually have their stands full with people wearing Hardy jerseys.Hardy didn't have a QB until last year when Lewis emerged, but he still managed to put up double digit TD's in his 3 years playing at Indiana.
 
Chaos Commish said:
Wildman said:
I like Thomas as well...I also like Douglas although he's not the primary threat type that goes in the 1st round.
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'Douglas's fearlessness and Brohm's high throws almost got that kid killed a dozen times last year. He's pretty amazing, but I wonder how it translates. He certainly cannot continue to take the kind of pounding I saw over and over this past season. I do believe Thomas is probably the top WR on most (not all) teams boards today, but I don't think moderated is crazy here. I have a very high opinon of Hardy, and I have been mostly quiet on the topic since early in the season. He has some Brandon Marshall in him, but bigger. He has a crazy stiff arm, elite hands, a basketball player's body control, and 4.4 speed now. It's a good argument. I'm intrigued by the idea but Thomas's total package seems to stand out of this crowd a little right now, and Kelly is yet to be weighed and measured. This is a great group of receivers to pick and choose from. I like a lot of them.
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I just scouted Thomas game versus BC last night...When you throw in his skills after the catch (in this case his kick returns)...I was highly impressed with him. Can't believe he didn't play until this year. A guy I just have to mention because if he gets his act together he could be a pro bowl player, but I'm not sure it will ever happen is Keenan Burton...God I love to watch this receiver play. When he's healthy and he's focused, he is quite a player.
 
I agree with moderated to an extent that some of the draft sites have underrated Hardy some, but remember a good portion of these guys talk to real scouts and NFL teams and especially with top handful of players the draftsperts are usually pretty close. Thomas and Hardy probably have the highest upside of the WRs this year, but still have enough questions to keep either one from being a "clear' number 1. I would guess that for every team that has Hardy ranked number 1 there may be another where he is not in the top 5. I personally don't think the total profile on any of these guys should warrant a top half of the draft pick, I would not be surprised to see a team have a more solid feeling than i do and draft any of 4 or 5 players as the first WR of the borad.

Specifically on Hardy, I did not see him play but two/three times. He did not look quick of the line nor was as consistent or dominate as a top 10 pick should be. On his character, thought I remember him having an issue with the IU coaching staff at some point in his career?

 
Wildman said:
A guy I just have to mention because if he gets his act together he could be a pro bowl player, but I'm not sure it will ever happen is Keenan Burton...God I love to watch this receiver play. When he's healthy and he's focused, he is quite a player.
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Nice to fully agree with you on one! I've been hoping no one would talk about Burton. His year was actually disappointing. He very nearly came out last year (Best friends with Michael Bush and they debated their options together). When he's at full health he is dynamic on the field, and he was clearly the focus of defensive game plans in every game I watched. He translates.
 
coolnerd said:
Specifically on Hardy, I did not see him play but two/three times. He did not look quick of the line nor was as consistent or dominate as a top 10 pick should be. On his character, thought I remember him having an issue with the IU coaching staff at some point in his career?
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Hardy did have a couple run ins.In 2005 he was arrested for domestic battery which was later dismissed. He was suspended 2 games the following season.From everything i've heard since then he's been nothing but a hard worker who the coaches love, but your right, he did have a couple problems. I guess i shouldn't have listed character as a strength, but i think his issues are behind him and that he doesn't have those concerns going forward.
 
Warhogs said:
I am not one who studies the college guys in great detail so I'm not sure I am much help. I am of the opinion that combine results are highly over rated so I think a guy like Manningham may actually be a solid value if most people drop him down due to his combine results.A couple of things I look for at WR over combine results are that I like guys who have had 2-4 years of good numbers at college. The guys with a great senior year that did not do much before that scare me a bit because there is not a lot to judge them on. I will also take a WR who runs solid routes, can get separation and has great hands over any combine results. I'm not sure who fits that criteria the best but that is what I will be looking at as the draft approaches.
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Sounds alot like Todd Blythe to me
 
King of the Jungle said:
Shocked at Manningham's 40 time (4.59). Didn't think he would blister, but that is disappointing.
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I've seen him play in almost every Michigan game he was in, I didn't know his 40 time but I didn't expect him to be the fastest guy.The guy is simply a playmaker, great hands and good route runner. I see that Kiper on ESPN currently has Dallas selecting him in the 1st round, I love the idea. In a recent redraft (winter draft) I selected him next to the last round as a flyer and really think he's going to be a player in the NFL. If indeed he went to a team like Dallas, he'd be in a prolific offense right off the bat and would have the opportunity to make some big plays early on in his career.
 
Chaos Commish said:
Wildman said:
A guy I just have to mention because if he gets his act together he could be a pro bowl player, but I'm not sure it will ever happen is Keenan Burton...God I love to watch this receiver play. When he's healthy and he's focused, he is quite a player.
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Nice to fully agree with you on one! I've been hoping no one would talk about Burton. His year was actually disappointing. He very nearly came out last year (Best friends with Michael Bush and they debated their options together). When he's at full health he is dynamic on the field, and he was clearly the focus of defensive game plans in every game I watched. He translates.
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LOL!!! It's fun to disagree. You have great takes that I respect. I'll always remember you were the first person I knew who really thought MJD would be better than Bush (still a lot of time left for both guys I hope) and could play in the NFL as an RB. No one is ever going to 100% on this stuff. When you're in the prediction business based on evaluating something as subjective as human performance you just hope you don't completely blow it. That's why my views on Dmac and Mendenhall are scaring me, because folks I respect disagree strongly. But if I find after this next 2-3 weeks that I'm not missing anything based on how I evaluate then I'm going to stand by my opinions and see if I can learn anything from it if I'm wrong...(Thankfully I have a day job...)
 
Barry Jive and The Uptown Five said:
Limp Dogg Bizkits said:
Keep an eye on Todd Blythe. If he lands on the right roster he could make a nice late round steal.At 6-5 215 he knows how to use his body and has great hands. He has an uncanny ability to get the jump ball. He has deceptive speed and reminds me alot of Ed McCaffrey (sp?)
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Substitute Jordy Nelson for Blythe & I was thinking the exact same thing.Similar guys in many respects, with the exception of a few extra inches of height for Blythe
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I like Nelson A LOT more than Blythe. I just cannot see the former Cyclone doing anything in the NFL. Nelson, otoh, has the ability to make a difference if he lands in the right situation.
 
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