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Earnest Graham (1 Viewer)

Ever Present Lurker

Ever Present Lurker

Footballguy
As the dynasty voting has gone on, I've noticed Earnest Graham as an option for quite some time, but still he gets relatively little love as we hit RB25 and beyond.

With the severity of Caddy's injury, and his relative inability to produce over the last 3 years, coupled with Graham's success last season, I expected that we might think of Earnest Graham as a solid RB2 this season and beyond.

So what is everyone's take on Graham? Are you folks expecting him to split the carries this season, return to the bench, or just be unproductive as other teams key on him?

Just to throw in my feelings beyond what I've already said, I think that he brings a decent skill set of being able to run the ball inside, with speed to get outside from time to time, and the ability to catch the ball. I'd have to consider him a viable choice as an RB2.

Thoughts?

 
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Ever Present Lurker said:
As the dynasty voting has gone on, I've noticed Earnest Graham as an option for quite some time, but still he gets relatively little love as we hit RB25 and beyond.
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I think the draft and season are needed to gauge Graham. He's 100% worth holding in dynasty as the chance that he'll repeat or increase is much greater than what you'll get in trade. If Tampa brings in a high drafted rook or he doesn't get the majority of the carries this season, he'll not get a second chance, thus the no love from the rankings. If he comes close to last season in carries and in production, I think you'll see a lot more love for him...
 
I think he would be pretty productive. He wasn't a guy who came out of nowhere to put up a handfull of great games. He came in week 3 or 4 and was steady for the remainder of the season. Opposing defenses had plenty of chances to game plan for him, but he still played well. Some have said the he's not a 'Gruden' type RB, but it's hard to argue with his production. He was top 10 in my league last year and with the concerns about Caddy health for the upcoming season I could very easily seeing him do it again. Even if Caddy returns midseason, I don't see him jumping in and taking all the carries from Graham. I would be more concerned about TB bringing in another back like Turner or Julius Jones. They definitely need to get some depth at the posistion IMO.

 
The issues on Earnest Graham are that he's only performed for less than a year, there's the chance Caddy comes back (I don't put this too high on the list), and the bigger threat that the Bucs will add a RB in the future to replace Graham. That could happen as soon as this coming NFL Draft.

There's also the fact that he's 27, which would put him behind younger and more productive backs like MB3.

 
As some have said, we'll know a lot more about where he stands after the draft. The Bucs will no doubt be looking to add depth but if they take a back on day 1, they might already be grooming his replacement.

 
Keep in mind that the OLine is steadily improving down there too... he is a sleeper and can be had cheaply in dynasties.

 
He just ain't that good.

On another Tampa Bay RB note, Mewelde Moore visited with the Bucs recently. They've inquired about trading for him in the past, so it's not surpising that they're still interested. He'd be an interesting signing for them.

 
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.
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This is how I feel. He is productive, but he doesn't possess home-run ability, and his ceiling is limited. Gruden loves Caddy because of the talent. Caddy isn't getting any better, so I think they add to the backfield in hopes of the home-run, higher ceiling talent. At most, Graham starts one more year.
 
JPeso said:
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.
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This is how I feel. He is productive, but he doesn't possess home-run ability, and his ceiling is limited. Gruden loves Caddy because of the talent. Caddy isn't getting any better, so I think they add to the backfield in hopes of the home-run, higher ceiling talent. At most, Graham starts one more year.
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I felt the same way when Caddy initially went down in week 3. I wasn't sure Earnest could handle the load and neither did the Bucs, at first. Bringing in the likes of Zack Crockett and Michael Bennett. But, Earnest continued to make positive yards, fall forward after contact, break tackles, take the ball to the end zone from outside the twenty, and catch the football consistently. I think that's something that is being overlooked as well, the fact that Graham had 49 catches last season starting in only 10 games.With the way this offensive line is starting to gel I'd say that Earnest is easily a RB2 with the potential for RB1 numbers if he doesn't have to compete with a rookie for carries.
 
I hate to keep saying this but don't count Caddy out yet. Gruden loves him and if he is healthy enough to play(which is 50-50 at this point) then he will have a decent sized role(much bigger than anyone else Graham competed with this year.) Plus, Graham isn't some 23y/o youngster, he's 2-3 years older than Caddy.

Graham is a decent RB2, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on him as more than a RB3 if I could help it.

 
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.On another Tampa Bay RB note, Mewelde Moore visited with the Bucs recently. They've inquired about trading for him in the past, so it's not surpising that they're still interested. He'd be an interesting signing for them.
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I don't know how you'd say that. The guy in many of the games I saw looked like their entire offense. He can run, catch and block. On offense, I thought he was their most valuable player.I think Graham represents excellent value and will continue to represent value early on in all drafts and then once people realize that what they saw last year wasn't a fluke during the last couple preseason games he'll keep moving up the drafts.BTW, Meweldee Moore Blows compared to Graham. There's no way that Meweldee Moore ever pulls off what Graham did last year for the Bucs, not even close.
 
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I don't know that he's going to be the man this year, but hard to deny he wasn't the man last year. As last poster just said, he carried that offense for a while.

 
Grahamburn said:
JPeso said:
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.
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This is how I feel. He is productive, but he doesn't possess home-run ability, and his ceiling is limited. Gruden loves Caddy because of the talent. Caddy isn't getting any better, so I think they add to the backfield in hopes of the home-run, higher ceiling talent. At most, Graham starts one more year.
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I felt the same way when Caddy initially went down in week 3. I wasn't sure Earnest could handle the load and neither did the Bucs, at first. Bringing in the likes of Zack Crockett and Michael Bennett. But, Earnest continued to make positive yards, fall forward after contact, break tackles, take the ball to the end zone from outside the twenty, and catch the football consistently. I think that's something that is being overlooked as well, the fact that Graham had 49 catches last season starting in only 10 games.

With the way this offensive line is starting to gel I'd say that Earnest is easily a RB2 with the potential for RB1 numbers if he doesn't have to compete with a rookie for carries.
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I noticed. :excited: In PPR Graham will be $$ next year. I hope everyone else keep thinking that he isn't worth a RB2 pick.

 
I think Earnest was in a fortunate situation last year, where he was the only guy left at RB. He's a decent goalline guy, and I think he benefitted from a Tampa offense that didn't seem to get great play from his WRs and TEs in the red zone, especially on the goalline. I mean, I'm not exactly going to believe in Joey Galloway and Ike Hilliard to be red-zone threats. Same with Alex Smith and Jerramy Stevens. I think whoever is the Tampa RB will get some nice TD numbers, but I can't imagine taking Graham over a RB3 guy I like better.

 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.On another Tampa Bay RB note, Mewelde Moore visited with the Bucs recently. They've inquired about trading for him in the past, so it's not surpising that they're still interested. He'd be an interesting signing for them.
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I don't know how you'd say that. The guy in many of the games I saw looked like their entire offense. He can run, catch and block. On offense, I thought he was their most valuable player.I think Graham represents excellent value and will continue to represent value early on in all drafts and then once people realize that what they saw last year wasn't a fluke during the last couple preseason games he'll keep moving up the drafts.BTW, Meweldee Moore Blows compared to Graham. There's no way that Meweldee Moore ever pulls off what Graham did last year for the Bucs, not even close.
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He's just a mediocre back. Mediocrity doesn't last at RB in the NFL. I would sell him for a draft pick or WR prospect in a dynasty. In a redraft he's a little more intriguing since he could conceivably be their bell cow for 2008 if they don't add another live body.
 
travdogg said:
I hate to keep saying this but don't count Caddy out yet. Gruden loves him and if he is healthy enough to play(which is 50-50 at this point) then he will have a decent sized role(much bigger than anyone else Graham competed with this year.) Plus, Graham isn't some 23y/o youngster, he's 2-3 years older than Caddy.Graham is a decent RB2, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on him as more than a RB3 if I could help it.
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The problem is though is that Caddilac can never stay healthy. Why should we think any differentely this season?
 
He's a pretty safe investment because of opportunity. Caddy, JJ, MMoore and many of the rooks wont be stealing goal line carries from this guy anytime soon. Unless they draft a GL type back I'm definitely buying as a #2.

 
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.On another Tampa Bay RB note, Mewelde Moore visited with the Bucs recently. They've inquired about trading for him in the past, so it's not surpising that they're still interested. He'd be an interesting signing for them.
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One off the list of replacements as he signed with the Steelers. Still watching...
 
Graham is a good player. It really doesn't matter who the Bucs bring in now that Turner is off the market. Seriously outside of a 1st round running back, I think Graham picks right up where he left off. Caddy is a bust. He came out of the gates strong, but has been a major disappointment since the first few games.

Graham is a great guy to snag for a 2-3 year starter in dynasty simply because he'll be a lot cheaper than many guys that he will outproduce for that span. If he was 22 he'd be a top Dynasty player. But he's 27. So his loooooong term viability is limited.

I am not Bucs fan, but I like Graham a lot.

 
Sabertooth said:
Graham is a good player. It really doesn't matter who the Bucs bring in now that Turner is off the market. Seriously outside of a 1st round running back, I think Graham picks right up where he left off. Caddy is a bust. He came out of the gates strong, but has been a major disappointment since the first few games.Graham is a great guy to snag for a 2-3 year starter in dynasty simply because he'll be a lot cheaper than many guys that he will outproduce for that span. If he was 22 he'd be a top Dynasty player. But he's 27. So his loooooong term viability is limited.I am not Bucs fan, but I like Graham a lot.
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:shrug: If Graham had had the year he had and was 23 or 24, he'd be a hotter dynasty commodity than Turner. He's 27, which means he "only" has 3-4 productive years left, even if everything goes perfectly for him. I agree with previous posters that he is "under the radar" in as much as dynasty owners won't get as much for him as they should, given the fact that barring injury on his part, or major moves to replace him by the Bucs, he should hang in the RB12-RB16 range for the next few years in standard scoring and maybe even slightly higher in PPR.
 
too tough to tell right now. I know TB is commited to the run, which is why I like Caddie so much. I got to believe Graham will have the rock until Williams is healthy enough for his contract status to win him the starting gig back. I think if you have Caddie, you commit to Graham. Though I wouldnt go out and target Graham by himself.

 
DoubleG said:
Sabertooth said:
Graham is a good player. It really doesn't matter who the Bucs bring in now that Turner is off the market. Seriously outside of a 1st round running back, I think Graham picks right up where he left off. Caddy is a bust. He came out of the gates strong, but has been a major disappointment since the first few games.Graham is a great guy to snag for a 2-3 year starter in dynasty simply because he'll be a lot cheaper than many guys that he will outproduce for that span. If he was 22 he'd be a top Dynasty player. But he's 27. So his loooooong term viability is limited.I am not Bucs fan, but I like Graham a lot.
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:towelwave: If Graham had had the year he had and was 23 or 24, he'd be a hotter dynasty commodity than Turner. He's 27, which means he "only" has 3-4 productive years left, even if everything goes perfectly for him. I agree with previous posters that he is "under the radar" in as much as dynasty owners won't get as much for him as they should, given the fact that barring injury on his part, or major moves to replace him by the Bucs, he should hang in the RB12-RB16 range for the next few years in standard scoring and maybe even slightly higher in PPR.
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Graham is 28. 1/15/1980
 
EBF said:
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
EBF said:
He just ain't that good.On another Tampa Bay RB note, Mewelde Moore visited with the Bucs recently. They've inquired about trading for him in the past, so it's not surpising that they're still interested. He'd be an interesting signing for them.
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I don't know how you'd say that. The guy in many of the games I saw looked like their entire offense. He can run, catch and block. On offense, I thought he was their most valuable player.I think Graham represents excellent value and will continue to represent value early on in all drafts and then once people realize that what they saw last year wasn't a fluke during the last couple preseason games he'll keep moving up the drafts.BTW, Meweldee Moore Blows compared to Graham. There's no way that Meweldee Moore ever pulls off what Graham did last year for the Bucs, not even close.
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He's just a mediocre back. Mediocrity doesn't last at RB in the NFL. I would sell him for a draft pick or WR prospect in a dynasty. In a redraft he's a little more intriguing since he could conceivably be their bell cow for 2008 if they don't add another live body.
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Well, he's put up numbers that other running backs couldn't duplicate on the same team. If he's mediocre, then I'm sure you can figure out some adjectives for all of the other RB's on that team.Dynasty talk is difficult because to me, there are so many loopholes in a conversation. You're right, I can't tell you where Graham is going to be in 3 years, but I can't really tell you where many of the guys will be. I guess I disagree in that he's just average and I do think he'll be effective again next year, especially in a PPR league. And if he's successful yet again next year, which you sort of say, the guy will have earned the starting spot as the TB RB.
 
Ernest Graham is fairly mediocre, just like 75%+ of the other starting RB's in the NFL.

There are very few elite RB's, to say Graham is mediocre isn't really an insult.

Unless Tampa drafts a RB in round 1 his job is stable for the next year, that is really all you can say about any non-elite RB...which is why most RB's are grossly over-rated in dynasty leagues.

 
moderated said:
Ernest Graham is fairly mediocre, just like 75%+ of the other starting RB's in the NFL.There are very few elite RB's, to say Graham is mediocre isn't really an insult.Unless Tampa drafts a RB in round 1 his job is stable for the next year, that is really all you can say about any non-elite RB...which is why most RB's are grossly over-rated in dynasty leagues.
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Sweeping generalizations don't really help discussions.In a league where you can start 3 RBs and don't have PPR, or in a 16 team league, RBs are gold.In a league that requires 1 (or even zero) RB to start, yeah not many RBs are elite enough to hold value.In a "standard" league of 12 with 2 RBs starting, the Top 30 RBs each year have good value. Teams with >1 Top 10 RB will be playoff teams more often than not.
 
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:

Ronnie Brown

Thomas Jones

Willis McGahee

Rudi Johnson

Jamal Lewis

Willie Parker

Ahman Green

Joseph Addai

Fred Taylor

Larry Johnson

LaDainian Tomlinson

Brian Westbrook

Clinton Portis

Kevin Jones

Warrick Dunn

Deshaun Foster

Edgerrin James

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

Shaun Alexander

As you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job.

I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.

 
Say what you want his age, his coach, his situation. He doesn't go down on 1st contact and has a nose for the end-zone. His ability to hit paydirt is all that matters to most of us. Dog him this and dog him that. The guy produces and his cap hit is small. He's entering 08 as the starter and will become a FA afterwards. Some people just need the opportunity. Being a CHI fan I'd love to have Graham instead of Benson.

And finally as a reminder to those so called people voting on those ridiculous dyansty rb ranking polls...what do the following backs have in common?

Ron Dayne, Reggie Bush, Kevin Jones, Warrick Dunn, L. Marooney, Reggie Bush, Ronnie Brown, Deshaun Foster, Chestor Taylor, Brandon Jacobs, Fred Taylor, Thomas Jones, Ryan Grant, Kenny Watson, Willie Parker, Lendale White, Steven Jackson, MJD, and Marshawn Lynch????????????????

They finished behind Earnest Graham in most performance based scoring system leagues. Good thing EG can catch, block and find the end zone. Inside the 20 is where you earn your paycheck. He's worth every penny. Retain him for 08 and reap the benefits. OUT! :bowtie:


 
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Again he finished top 12 last year without playing a full season. He's got some of the best hands in the league and lacks the respect from all these so called experts. Keep voting against him and did we mention...TB just signed the best blocking TE in the league and upgrade their O-line with Faine. Wow, maybe Gruden wants to run more in 08. Sounds like it already. WOW, 49 receptions. You'd swear he played with Peyton Manning. Again, these so called experts need to get their heads examined. OUT! Production, production, production. Those of you who rank him low must be truly be playing in fantasy land or something. OUT! He did finish top 12 without a full season. Give me EG over those overrated so called running backs. Grab him and retain. Give the respect, give the love, a more than serviceable #2 RB. Nose for the endzone.

 
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas Jones-elite...pleaseWillis McGaheeRudi Johnson-marginal at bestJamal LewisWillie Parker-exposedAhman Green-a broken down old carJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin Jones-injured every other playWarrick Dunn-released and unemployed...average at bestDeshaun Foster-overrated and slow...goes down on 1st contactEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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Poison???? I would avoid accepting your assessment of RBs as the word ELITE only should apply to 1-3 RBs. Try a bit harder here.
 
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas JonesWillis McGaheeRudi JohnsonJamal LewisWillie ParkerAhman GreenJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin JonesWarrick DunnDeshaun FosterEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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near 2/3 of the Leagues RB's are elite? hmmm, John Fox must have been out of his mind then. Conversely my niners are truly blessed to have 2 elite RB's,lol
 
ninerfanatic492000 said:
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas JonesWillis McGaheeRudi JohnsonJamal LewisWillie ParkerAhman GreenJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin JonesWarrick DunnDeshaun FosterEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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near 2/3 of the Leagues RB's are elite? hmmm, John Fox must have been out of his mind then. Conversely my niners are truly blessed to have 2 elite RB's,lol
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Those guys represent the cream of the RB crop over the past 5-8 years. Obviously they aren't all among the top 5 runners in the league, but they're all supremely talented. As for Foster, the fact that he's one of the weakest links on the list and he won't be starting next season just goes to prove my point. Only the strong survive. You have to be beast to keep a starting job in the NFL for more than a year or two.
 
EBF said:
ninerfanatic492000 said:
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas JonesWillis McGaheeRudi JohnsonJamal LewisWillie ParkerAhman GreenJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin JonesWarrick DunnDeshaun FosterEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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near 2/3 of the Leagues RB's are elite? hmmm, John Fox must have been out of his mind then. Conversely my niners are truly blessed to have 2 elite RB's,lol
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Those guys represent the cream of the RB crop over the past 5-8 years. Obviously they aren't all among the top 5 runners in the league, but they're all supremely talented. As for Foster, the fact that he's one of the weakest links on the list and he won't be starting next season just goes to prove my point. Only the strong survive. You have to be beast to keep a starting job in the NFL for more than a year or two.
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I agree that Graham is not an elite talent, but that does not automatically make him worthless in dynasty leagues. The true 'elite' RBs would flourish anywhere, but many of those guys on your list would not be as effective as Graham in Tampa Bay's offense. Foster, Alexander, and Rudi can't catch. Warrick Dunn, Fred Taylor, and Thomas Jones have never been very good around the goal line. Kevin Jones (and others) have constant injury problems. So I guess I fall somewhere in the middle of the debate...I don't think he's an elite talent, but I do think he is talented enough to be a starter for 2-3 years for Tampa Bay. I agree with the previous poster that Graham is a lot like Rudi Johnson: not all that talented, but in the perfect situation for his skills.This time of year is funny because everyone is sure they are going to be able to land stud rookie RBs in the "deepest class ever", and consistent older players like Graham get overlooked. Then the season starts and six out of the eight 'stud' rookies are riding the pine and all of a sudden Graham's 85yds and a TD every week look a whole lot better. I suspect if Graham was 25 instead of 27 his perceived upside would be much higher.
 
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas JonesWillis McGaheeRudi JohnsonJamal LewisWillie ParkerAhman GreenJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin JonesWarrick DunnDeshaun FosterEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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Sometimes I swear that some owners think that the goal in a dynasty league is to not win UNTIL 2 more years. So what if Graham only has another good season or season and a half in him? He can help me the title in 2008. I'd rather have him help me win the title in 2008 and then be looking for help in 2009 then giving up on 2008 for a young RB whom I HOPE can help me win in 2009.
 
EBF said:
Guys like this just don't last as starters in the NFL. Here is the current list of RBs who have been starters for at least two consecutive seasons:Ronnie BrownThomas JonesWillis McGaheeRudi JohnsonJamal LewisWillie ParkerAhman GreenJoseph AddaiFred TaylorLarry JohnsonLaDainian TomlinsonBrian WestbrookClinton PortisKevin JonesWarrick DunnDeshaun FosterEdgerrin JamesSteven JacksonFrank GoreShaun AlexanderAs you can see, that's a pretty elite group of talent. And that shouldn't be a big surprise. Mediocrity just doesn't last in the NFL. There are too many talented players floating around for marginal guys to maintain a long term hold on a starting job. I don't think Graham is on par with the average starting NFL RB, which means I don't think he'll be starting for very long. In my view he's dynasty poison roughly on par with Reuben Droughns circa 2006. I recommend avoiding him in every format but redraft, where he could be a nice play.
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Kevin JOnes, DFoster, Ahman Green, Warrick Dunn?How many injury free seasons has Jackson, Alexander, Gore, Taylor, Parker, etc put together the past 3 seasons?
 
Biabreakable said:
When will Carnell Williams be healthy enough to play?
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While that is a valid question, the problem is, even if he does return, if he plays like he has the past year or so instead of as he did the first 1/2 season of his career, it doesn't clear anything up. IMHO, Earnest Graham has been at least as effective as Caddy has recently. Now, whether that's a testament to EG or a knock on Caddy is up to you. Again, this is opinion, but when Caddy comes back (which some estimates have put before the regular season, some a few games in) I could easily see the RB situation falling into true RBBC, with the "hot hand" getting the touches. But this is so far removed from training camp and preseason, it's difficult to speculate - there are literally dozens of factors that could enter in - injuries, the draft, success or failure of one or the other in practice/TC/pre-season, even trade inquireies, salary, etc.
 
ConstruxBoy said:
Sometimes I swear that some owners think that the goal in a dynasty league is to not win UNTIL 2 more years. So what if Graham only has another good season or season and a half in him? He can help me the title in 2008. I'd rather have him help me win the title in 2008 and then be looking for help in 2009 then giving up on 2008 for a young RB whom I HOPE can help me win in 2009.
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And thus the Reuben Droughns logic rears its ugly head. The problem with this type of player in a dynasty is not that he has no value, but rather that you can probably do a lot better at his ADP in a dynasty draft. It doesn't make sense to use a top 60 pick on this guy given the other options that will be on the board. The future isn't the only consideration in a dynasty league, but it's certainly a consideration. It's usually a mistake to take these potential 1-2 year players over potential 4-6 year players. I've rarely seen this type of pick pay off in the long run.
 
EBF said:
ConstruxBoy said:
Sometimes I swear that some owners think that the goal in a dynasty league is to not win UNTIL 2 more years. So what if Graham only has another good season or season and a half in him? He can help me the title in 2008. I'd rather have him help me win the title in 2008 and then be looking for help in 2009 then giving up on 2008 for a young RB whom I HOPE can help me win in 2009.
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And thus the Reuben Droughns logic rears its ugly head. The problem with this type of player in a dynasty is not that he has no value, but rather that you can probably do a lot better at his ADP in a dynasty draft. It doesn't make sense to use a top 60 pick on this guy given the other options that will be on the board. The future isn't the only consideration in a dynasty league, but it's certainly a consideration. It's usually a mistake to take these potential 1-2 year players over potential 4-6 year players. I've rarely seen this type of pick pay off in the long run.
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Ahh..you were talking more about a pick in a start up Dynasty league. I was reading it as having Graham on your roster right now. I do understand your point although I do think some owners value the future too much. But yes, there is likely someone with more upside at his ADP.
 
EBF said:
ConstruxBoy said:
Sometimes I swear that some owners think that the goal in a dynasty league is to not win UNTIL 2 more years. So what if Graham only has another good season or season and a half in him? He can help me the title in 2008. I'd rather have him help me win the title in 2008 and then be looking for help in 2009 then giving up on 2008 for a young RB whom I HOPE can help me win in 2009.
Click to expand...
And thus the Reuben Droughns logic rears its ugly head. The problem with this type of player in a dynasty is not that he has no value, but rather that you can probably do a lot better at his ADP in a dynasty draft. It doesn't make sense to use a top 60 pick on this guy given the other options that will be on the board. The future isn't the only consideration in a dynasty league, but it's certainly a consideration. It's usually a mistake to take these potential 1-2 year players over potential 4-6 year players. I've rarely seen this type of pick pay off in the long run.
Click to expand...
:unsure: Dynasty leagues are all about acquiring elite talent. Replacement level talent may buy you some points in one year (example: Mike Anderson 2005) but you will regret the price you paid the next year (Mike Anderson 2006 and 2007). Sell high, buy low. Ernest Graham is not someone you want to acquire in a dynasty for the price you will be paying.
 
ConstruxBoy said:
EBF said:
ConstruxBoy said:
Sometimes I swear that some owners think that the goal in a dynasty league is to not win UNTIL 2 more years. So what if Graham only has another good season or season and a half in him? He can help me the title in 2008. I'd rather have him help me win the title in 2008 and then be looking for help in 2009 then giving up on 2008 for a young RB whom I HOPE can help me win in 2009.
Click to expand...
And thus the Reuben Droughns logic rears its ugly head. The problem with this type of player in a dynasty is not that he has no value, but rather that you can probably do a lot better at his ADP in a dynasty draft. It doesn't make sense to use a top 60 pick on this guy given the other options that will be on the board. The future isn't the only consideration in a dynasty league, but it's certainly a consideration. It's usually a mistake to take these potential 1-2 year players over potential 4-6 year players. I've rarely seen this type of pick pay off in the long run.
Click to expand...
Ahh..you were talking more about a pick in a start up Dynasty league. I was reading it as having Graham on your roster right now. I do understand your point although I do think some owners value the future too much. But yes, there is likely someone with more upside at his ADP.
Click to expand...
But its not just abut the initial draft. Its also about what it would take to acquire that player and/or what you can get for them in trade.No one is suggesting that Graham be cut. But it might be a good idea to sell his replacement level talent high if you can get value.
 
DoubleG said:
Biabreakable said:
When will Carnell Williams be healthy enough to play?
Click to expand...
While that is a valid question, the problem is, even if he does return, if he plays like he has the past year or so instead of as he did the first 1/2 season of his career, it doesn't clear anything up. IMHO, Earnest Graham has been at least as effective as Caddy has recently. Now, whether that's a testament to EG or a knock on Caddy is up to you. Again, this is opinion, but when Caddy comes back (which some estimates have put before the regular season, some a few games in) I could easily see the RB situation falling into true RBBC, with the "hot hand" getting the touches. But this is so far removed from training camp and preseason, it's difficult to speculate - there are literally dozens of factors that could enter in - injuries, the draft, success or failure of one or the other in practice/TC/pre-season, even trade inquireies, salary, etc.
Click to expand...
I agree with what your saying DoubleG and honestly I don't know when/if Carnell Williams will be healthy enough to compete for starting or RBBC role in the offense. I wish I did.What I do see is an improved Oline and temporary fix at QB with Garcia coinciding with Grahms success. I don't think Caddy had the same opportunity and balance from the offense that Grahm did. So it remains to be seen how effective he could be under those same circumstances compared to Grahm.That is the critical question here in regards to Grahms value short and long term. Carnell Williams status.I think this is what keeps Grahms value low is owners knowing the threat Carnell Williams is to his opportunity. If Caddy is out of the picture then Grahm is a lot more valuable than he is currently getting credit for. But he is not out of the picture, so there is some risk in depending on Grahm.I think both RBs are decent buys right now and it would be best to own both of them rather than one or the other.
 
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