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Calvin Johnson (1 Viewer)

SproutDaddy

SproutDaddy

Footballguy
I own Calvin in a dynasty league. I've had a great deal of admiration for him since seeing highlights of his sophmore season at GT. A guy in my league is a GT fan and has extreme manlove for him. I can't blame him, but it's caused some really stupid drama between us seeing as though we've been friends for some time. For one, he claims I was wrong for drafting him in the first place. This is fantasy football, isn't it? Isn't it every man for himself? Anyway, he's made several attempts to acquire Calvin from me. The only receiver on his team I have interest in is Fitz, but he is unwilling to trade him. He's offered Santonio Holmes in a deal. He owns like pick 10 in the rookie draft, but isn't willing to give it up. Instead he's willing to part with his 1st rounder next year. I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.

 
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Your friend is in the wrong for taking it personal. Holmes and the 10th overall isnt enough. Holmes and a top 5 is I think.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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I agree with this.
 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
 
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
Click to expand...
Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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Did you just want everyone to come here and agree with you?Pre-draft hype and college success doesn't always measure up to reality. Santonio Holmes looked very good last year and ought to be the WR1 in Pittsburgh this season. Calvin Johnson might be the man eventually - he really might. OR, he might end up following the same road that Charles Rogers and Mike Williams took. Even Roy Williams hasn't been able to be what everyone has hoped he would be.I'd take the Santonio + next years draft pick and run.
 
It takes two to agree on the price to get a deal done. I like Santonio, but certainly not more than Calvin Johnson. Fitz is worth more than Calvin Johnson.

I would do the deal for Santonio, the #10 and next year's first round pick. Maybe. It would depend on what I could trade the #10 and the 2009 first round pick for.

I might also do a deal of Calvin Johnson and my 2009 first round pick for Fitz.

 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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:goodposting: I believe Holmes and Calvin are nearly on even ground. Where Holmes may lack in physical skills, Calvin lacks in QB play. Holmes and Ben will be locked at the hip for at least the next 3 years. Calvin will have Kitna...Stanton...???...over the next 3 years.Holmes and 1.3 for Calvin is too expensive. Holmes and 1.10 (...or 1st in '09) for Calvin makes more sense.
 
SproutDaddy said:
This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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It doesn't really matter what YOU think. A player's trade value is determined by the consensus, and not one man's opinion. So while YOU might think Calvin is worth Holmes and a top 5 pick, the consensus says there won't be a lot of owners interested in making that deal with you. It sounds like you're extremely high on Calvin. You're unlikely to find an owner who places a similar value on him, so you should probably just keep him.
 
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Demons said:
It takes two to agree on the price to get a deal done. I like Santonio, but certainly not more than Calvin Johnson. Fitz is worth more than Calvin Johnson.I would do the deal for Santonio, the #10 and next year's first round pick. Maybe. It would depend on what I could trade the #10 and the 2009 first round pick for.I might also do a deal of Calvin Johnson and my 2009 first round pick for Fitz.
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I actually have tried to do the first scenario, but he isn't having that. As far as Fitz, he's unwilling to include him in the deal.
 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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It doesn't really matter what YOU think. A player's trade value is determined by the consensus, and not one man's opinion. So while YOU might think Calvin is worth Holmes and a top 5 pick, the consensus says there won't be a lot of owners interested in making that deal with you. It sounds like you're extremely high on Calvin. You're unlikely to find an owner who places a similar value on him, so you should probably just keep him.
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The other owner obviously is as high on him as I am or he wouldn't be throwing a fit to get him. So, just since he wants him I should give him to him for what he believes he is worth? UH, NO!! Whenever I've wanted something from another owner, yeah I low ball him. In the end I end up paying more than my original offer. That's how it goes. How can I be blamed for trying to better my team? Is my demands pricey? Yes................unfair? Far from it!
 
Sprout, I know SS wants his boy, but if you don't want to trade, don't.

But please send Patrick Willis my way.

tia

fwiw, in a 32 team idp league, i offered Laurent Robinson, 1.11 this year, and my 09 1st for Calvin and was shot down.

 
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I just acquired Calvin in a dynasty league.

I gave 08 2.14, 09 1st, Chris Henry, and Jarvis Moss.

I obviously like CJ2, so my take is biased. I admit that up front.

No way I take Santonio/pick for him. Not even a top 3. I'd want both 1st rounders and Santonio. Even then I would hesitate. But, maybe I am unreasonable. The risk with draft picks is significant IMO and I believe in the once in a decade potential CJ brings.

I say this as an unabashed Pitt homer. I like Santonio and think he can be a competent #2. I don't think his skills translate to elite territory and true #1 status. CJ's do.

You mention a player who I think CJ will very much emulate. Larry Fitzgerald. Fairly quiet rookie year followed by rapid ascension to top 5 dynasty WR. I would value CJ accordingly.

Keep him.

 
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I own Calvin Johnson in a couple of dynasty leagues. Im not trading him because I think his value will go up quite a lot in the next few years. I still believe he will be a top 5 WR sooner than later.

 
treat88 said:
No way I take Santonio/pick for him. Not even a top 3. I'd want both 1st rounders and Santonio. Even then I would hesitate. But, maybe I am unreasonable. The risk with draft picks is significant IMO and I believe in the once in a decade potential CJ brings. I say this as an unabashed Pitt homer. I like Santonio and think he can be a competent #2. I don't think his skills translate to elite territory and true #1 status. CJ's do.You mention a player who I think CJ will very much emulate. Larry Fitzgerald. Fairly quiet rookie year followed by rapid ascension to top 5 dynasty WR.
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I agree with everything here. I'd want a pick simply to help my hobbled RB corps. Later round picks are way too risky. And the Fitz thing is the only scenario that would make sense, but would I ask for Fitz straight up for Calvin? Hell no!
 
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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It doesn't really matter what YOU think. A player's trade value is determined by the consensus, and not one man's opinion. So while YOU might think Calvin is worth Holmes and a top 5 pick, the consensus says there won't be a lot of owners interested in making that deal with you. It sounds like you're extremely high on Calvin. You're unlikely to find an owner who places a similar value on him, so you should probably just keep him.
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The other owner obviously is as high on him as I am or he wouldn't be throwing a fit to get him. So, just since he wants him I should give him to him for what he believes he is worth? UH, NO!! Whenever I've wanted something from another owner, yeah I low ball him. In the end I end up paying more than my original offer. That's how it goes. How can I be blamed for trying to better my team? Is my demands pricey? Yes................unfair? Far from it!
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Obviously you should aim high. Just realize what you're asking here. Holmes will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. A top 3 rookie pick means Mendenhall, Stewart, or McFadden. All three of those guys will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. So basically you're asking for double the value you're offering. Whether or not Calvin will eventually be more valuable than that package isn't the issue. Right now, based on common perception, it is definitely a stretch to demand two-for-one here. That doesn't mean you aren't correct in liking Calvin more than Holmes and the pick. It just means it's highly unlikely anyone will give you that much for him at this point in time.
 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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It doesn't really matter what YOU think. A player's trade value is determined by the consensus, and not one man's opinion. So while YOU might think Calvin is worth Holmes and a top 5 pick, the consensus says there won't be a lot of owners interested in making that deal with you. It sounds like you're extremely high on Calvin. You're unlikely to find an owner who places a similar value on him, so you should probably just keep him.
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The other owner obviously is as high on him as I am or he wouldn't be throwing a fit to get him. So, just since he wants him I should give him to him for what he believes he is worth? UH, NO!! Whenever I've wanted something from another owner, yeah I low ball him. In the end I end up paying more than my original offer. That's how it goes. How can I be blamed for trying to better my team? Is my demands pricey? Yes................unfair? Far from it!
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Obviously you should aim high. Just realize what you're asking here. Holmes will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. A top 3 rookie pick means Mendenhall, Stewart, or McFadden. All three of those guys will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. So basically you're asking for double the value you're offering. Whether or not Calvin will eventually be more valuable than that package isn't the issue. Right now, based on common perception, it is definitely a stretch to demand two-for-one here. That doesn't mean you aren't correct in liking Calvin more than Holmes and the pick. It just means it's highly unlikely anyone will give you that much for him at this point in time.
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I totally agree with what you're saying, but IMO as far as dynasty value I have Calvin ranked much higher than Holmes, MUCH HIGHER. I probably will not change my feelings for some time. As far as the top 3 this year, I have Calvin ranked higher than any of them as well. I agree it's highly unlikely that most people would give me what I'm asking, that's fine, I'd rather have Calvin. But, I guarantee you there are some who would pay Holmes and a top 3 for him.
 
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter what YOU think. A player's trade value is determined by the consensus, and not one man's opinion. So while YOU might think Calvin is worth Holmes and a top 5 pick, the consensus says there won't be a lot of owners interested in making that deal with you. It sounds like you're extremely high on Calvin. You're unlikely to find an owner who places a similar value on him, so you should probably just keep him.
Click to expand...
The other owner obviously is as high on him as I am or he wouldn't be throwing a fit to get him. So, just since he wants him I should give him to him for what he believes he is worth? UH, NO!! Whenever I've wanted something from another owner, yeah I low ball him. In the end I end up paying more than my original offer. That's how it goes. How can I be blamed for trying to better my team? Is my demands pricey? Yes................unfair? Far from it!
Click to expand...
Obviously you should aim high. Just realize what you're asking here. Holmes will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. A top 3 rookie pick means Mendenhall, Stewart, or McFadden. All three of those guys will likely have a similar dynasty ADP to Calvin. So basically you're asking for double the value you're offering. Whether or not Calvin will eventually be more valuable than that package isn't the issue. Right now, based on common perception, it is definitely a stretch to demand two-for-one here. That doesn't mean you aren't correct in liking Calvin more than Holmes and the pick. It just means it's highly unlikely anyone will give you that much for him at this point in time.
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I totally agree with what you're saying, but IMO as far as dynasty value I have Calvin ranked much higher than Holmes, MUCH HIGHER. I probably will not change my feelings for some time. As far as the top 3 this year, I have Calvin ranked higher than any of them as well. I agree it's highly unlikely that most people would give me what I'm asking, that's fine, I'd rather have Calvin. But, I guarantee you there are some who would pay Holmes and a top 3 for him.
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Now copy and paste that into an email & send it to the guy in your league that wants Calvin... The end.
 
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.

Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.

Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I own Calvin in a dynasty league. I've had a great deal of admiration for him since seeing highlights of his sophmore season at GT. A guy in my league is a GT fan and has extreme manlove for him. I can't blame him, but it's caused some really stupid drama between us seeing as though we've been friends for some time. For one, he claims I was wrong for drafting him in the first place. This is fantasy football, isn't it? Isn't it every man for himself? Anyway, he's made several attempts to acquire Calvin from me. The only receiver on his team I have interest in is Fitz, but he is unwilling to trade him. He's offered Santonio Holmes in a deal. He owns like pick 10 in the rookie draft, but isn't willing to give it up. Instead he's willing to part with his 1st rounder next year. I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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I would tell the guy that I like Calvin and I'm keeping him, he is part of my long term plan.
 
Seems like most people in this topic are anit-Santonio. I would deal CJ2 for Santonio/1.10 in a heartbeat. Santonio's future is clear, Pitt is passing alot with Ben and that isn't gonna change anytime soon, Ward is old and Santonio will be the #1 there, Stanton is gonna be QB soon in Det, confident in him? I know i ain't.

 
Your value for Calvin is pretty severely overstated from the norm. Lucky for you someone in your league is nearly as bad, yet you still can't seem to find a trade you see as equal. Keep Calvin. If you can't pull a trade off with this guy, you will never find anyone else willing to pay what you think he is worth. There is nothing wrong with having "untradable" players on your dynasty team.

 
Frankbot said:
SproutDaddy said:
I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable.
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Bottom line – You're not being unreasonable because you're not the one that wants a trade. It's up to this other guy to make you an offer you can't refuse, not a "reasonable" or "fair" offer...
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:lmao: I've experienced a very similar situation in my 12 team dynasty league. Good friend is a Cleveland homer and is sweating me for Braylon Edwards. He inquired about him and I told him I didn't want to trade him. In typical fashion he sent a list of reasons that he feels I shouldn't be so high on him and be willing to trade him for a reasonable price. (Of course all I could hear was blah blah I really want him, blah blah) He then sent me a low ball offer (he always starts with the low ball). My only written response was "listen, I told you I don't want to trade him. If you think you can entice me to make the trade, your starting point should be the highest value you place on him, not the lowest price you think you can pay for him." He has sent two more offer, but I simply reject them.From your posting, it looks as though you've had some pretty serious negotiations regarding making the trade. That is probably sending the wrong message to your friend. It seems to me that you are interested in trading him, except that you want him to come out on the short end. So what if he has a better team than you. I'm guessing that didn't happen by coming out on the short end of trades. In the future, if you want someone to overpay for a player that they really like, save yourself a lot of wasted haggling time. Don't come to the table until an offer is made that is very close to what you are willing to accept to let the player go. I definitely wouldn't recommend this tactic in regular negotiations, however in this circumstance I would. I may add that trades are seldom made using this tactic, but isn't that really the point? You really have to be not only willing, but accepting of the fact that unless he blows you away with a deal, you are more than happy to retain the services of that player.
 
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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Holmes is worth a lot more than CJ2. Holmes is only about 1 yr older... so the part I bolded makes no sense.Holmes is on a much better offense w/ a top 7 QB; how even QBing Det this yr?

Holmes has an actually running game to open things for him... hows Det Running Back??

You nutz too turn down Holmes for CJ2 straight up.

A lot of people are going to get burnt on CJ2... and its not really CJ2 fault, he seems like he really talented.. but that offense is really going to limit his #s.

 
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both.

Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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If a team already has enough veteran WR's then they are going to value a young WR more. I can't blame the guy wanting Holmes and a high pick since very few WR's have the upside CJ has.
 
Holmes and Calvin are roughly the same value.

Neither is worth the 1.03 pick. That was last year, this is now.

Calvin's value is tied directly to QB Stanton. How you see Stanton doing when he takes over is how you feel about Calvin.

Roy will be gone at the end of his contract. Martz is already gone.

 
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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Tell your friend to grow up. He wants his cake and to eat it too.He blames you for taking Calvin Johnson because he likes him.......and then you'll trade him in a dynasty for Fitz but he doesn't want to get rid of Fitz so he can win.Seriously, I think you need to set your friend straight, because if you don't....you can only blame yourself when having to listen to him whine about Calvin Johnson. Tell him you play in a big boy league and you don't always get your favorite player.........if that doesn't work, tell him Fitzgerald is your favorite player and that you're ticked off he took him. Maybe that'll mean something to him.
 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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Tell your friend to grow up. He wants his cake and to eat it too.He blames you for taking Calvin Johnson because he likes him.......and then you'll trade him in a dynasty for Fitz but he doesn't want to get rid of Fitz so he can win.Seriously, I think you need to set your friend straight, because if you don't....you can only blame yourself when having to listen to him whine about Calvin Johnson. Tell him you play in a big boy league and you don't always get your favorite player.........if that doesn't work, tell him Fitzgerald is your favorite player and that you're ticked off he took him. Maybe that'll mean something to him.
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I agree that the friend is being a baby about this. But come on, Fitz for Johnson is robbery.
 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
SproutDaddy said:
EBF said:
SproutDaddy said:
I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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Haven't seen any trades for Calvin, but you're asking for way too much. A lot of owners value him below Holmes, so if you think you're going to get Holmes AND a top 3 pick then you're kidding yourself. You might get one or the other, but not both. Calvin is generally ranked in the WR10-20 range, so that's the kind of value you'll get for him.
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This is a dynasty league, so I'm thinking about the future here. I know everyone, including myself, expected bigger numbers from him last year, but look at that team. He is going to be something special. Holmes doesn't impress me. I don't even like him that much. If I acquired him, I'd probably turn right around and get rid of him.The point is I don't want to trade Calvin. Therefore, if he is that hard up for him then do what it takes to get him. His team is much better than mine, so I have needs to fill. Holmes and a top 5 is far from too much from a dynasty perspective.
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Tell your friend to grow up. He wants his cake and to eat it too.He blames you for taking Calvin Johnson because he likes him.......and then you'll trade him in a dynasty for Fitz but he doesn't want to get rid of Fitz so he can win.Seriously, I think you need to set your friend straight, because if you don't....you can only blame yourself when having to listen to him whine about Calvin Johnson. Tell him you play in a big boy league and you don't always get your favorite player.........if that doesn't work, tell him Fitzgerald is your favorite player and that you're ticked off he took him. Maybe that'll mean something to him.
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:goodposting:
 
Riffraff said:
Holmes and Calvin are roughly the same value.

Neither is worth the 1.03 pick. That was last year, this is now.

Calvin's value is tied directly to QB Stanton. How you see Stanton doing when he takes over is how you feel about Calvin.Roy will be gone at the end of his contract. Martz is already gone.
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I don't agree with this at all. Stanton may never even play as a starter in this league. If I had to pick between Holmes and Johnson, I'd take Johnson for the long term. If I had to say who's going to get the best fantasy stats for this upcoming season, I'd say it's about even.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I own Calvin in a dynasty league. I've had a great deal of admiration for him since seeing highlights of his sophmore season at GT. A guy in my league is a GT fan and has extreme manlove for him. I can't blame him, but it's caused some really stupid drama between us seeing as though we've been friends for some time. For one, he claims I was wrong for drafting him in the first place. This is fantasy football, isn't it? Isn't it every man for himself? Anyway, he's made several attempts to acquire Calvin from me. The only receiver on his team I have interest in is Fitz, but he is unwilling to trade him. He's offered Santonio Holmes in a deal. He owns like pick 10 in the rookie draft, but isn't willing to give it up. Instead he's willing to part with his 1st rounder next year. I want a top 3 pick this year along with Holmes in order to move him. I've been told it's too much and I'm being unreasonable. Someone please tell me what trades they've seen for Calvin, and how I'm wanting too much.
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http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12 :goodposting:

 
moderated said:
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I must admit many of the responses I'm seeing in this thread in regards to CJ2's value are quite....disappointing.Calvin's numbers this past year weren't great, but they were right around what many projected for him as a rookie WR (where very few people have success). So, how is it that a guy who last year was touted as perhaps the best WR prospect EVER and who many were taking over the best RB prospect we've seen in years that did what most people expected out of him in year 1 is now being talked about in trades for a handful of worthless draft picks?Talk about your knee jerk reactions. Yeesh, if CJ2's value is this low right now I guess it's time for me to go after him.Although, it's no surprise that the highly respected dynasty regulars around here all have his value much higher than the knee-jerkers.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
moderated said:
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I must admit many of the responses I'm seeing in this thread in regards to CJ2's value are quite....disappointing.Calvin's numbers this past year weren't great, but they were right around what many projected for him as a rookie WR (where very few people have success). So, how is it that a guy who last year was touted as perhaps the best WR prospect EVER and who many were taking over the best RB prospect we've seen in years that did what most people expected out of him in year 1 is now being talked about in trades for a handful of worthless draft picks?Talk about your knee jerk reactions. Yeesh, if CJ2's value is this low right now I guess it's time for me to go after him.Although, it's no surprise that the highly respected dynasty regulars around here all have his value much higher than the knee-jerkers.
Click to expand...
Holmes rookie season was just as impressive as Johnson's, maybe more so. He emerged last season as a true playmaker and would have easily broken into the top 12 WRs had he not missed 3 games.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
moderated said:
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I must admit many of the responses I'm seeing in this thread in regards to CJ2's value are quite....disappointing.Calvin's numbers this past year weren't great, but they were right around what many projected for him as a rookie WR (where very few people have success). So, how is it that a guy who last year was touted as perhaps the best WR prospect EVER and who many were taking over the best RB prospect we've seen in years that did what most people expected out of him in year 1 is now being talked about in trades for a handful of worthless draft picks?Talk about your knee jerk reactions. Yeesh, if CJ2's value is this low right now I guess it's time for me to go after him.Although, it's no surprise that the highly respected dynasty regulars around here all have his value much higher than the knee-jerkers.
Click to expand...
I think that's a good question.........how a guy who off his rookie year and who was basically said to be one of the greatest prospects ever to come into the pros somehow is on even par in terms of dynasty with a guy like Holmes who is pretty good but not a superstar.The answer to me is simple......people overreact. Whether it's on American Idol and you hear them use words like: "Your the next SuperStar or You are gonig to be a Star"People toss around those words like nothing and all of a sudden, those words don't have the meaning they're supposed to.Calvin Johnson was just too overhyped, not that he's not going to be a good player...but he's not something that the planet Earth hasn't seen before and this guy is going to do things you've never seen.So, keep that in mind for this year's draft and drafts in the future.I always laugh when I see this year's rookie RB crop and I see things like:McFadden: Like Dickerson but with SpeedIf he turns out 1/2 as good as Dickerson, consider himself lucky.
 
jurb26 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
moderated said:
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I must admit many of the responses I'm seeing in this thread in regards to CJ2's value are quite....disappointing.Calvin's numbers this past year weren't great, but they were right around what many projected for him as a rookie WR (where very few people have success). So, how is it that a guy who last year was touted as perhaps the best WR prospect EVER and who many were taking over the best RB prospect we've seen in years that did what most people expected out of him in year 1 is now being talked about in trades for a handful of worthless draft picks?Talk about your knee jerk reactions. Yeesh, if CJ2's value is this low right now I guess it's time for me to go after him.Although, it's no surprise that the highly respected dynasty regulars around here all have his value much higher than the knee-jerkers.
Click to expand...
Holmes rookie season was just as impressive as Johnson's, maybe more so. He emerged last season as a true playmaker and would have easily broken into the top 12 WRs had he not missed 3 games.
Click to expand...
Right, but the point is Johnson was hyped to be this megastud and he's basically asking what's changed.Is all that's changed is Holmes had a pretty good season and now all that hype about Johnson has dissipitated? The answer is pretty much yes. It's on to the next guy now.
 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
I think that's a good question.........how a guy who off his rookie year and who was basically said to be one of the greatest prospects ever to come into the pros somehow is on even par in terms of dynasty with a guy like Holmes who is pretty good but not a superstar.
Click to expand...
Because people playing fantasy football know that actual points win games, not potential points.Holmes:
Code: 
Year	  Team	  G	  Rec	  Yds	  Avg	  Yds/G	  Long	  TD	  20+	  40+	  1st	  FUM2007 	Steelers 	13 	52 	942 	18.1 	72.5 	83 	8 	15 	6 	42 	12006 	Steelers 	16 	49 	824 	16.8 	51.5 	67T 	2 	12 	3 	41 	0
Johnson:
Code: 
ReceivingYear 	Team 	G 	Rec 	Yds 	Avg 	Yds/G 	Long 	TD 	20+ 	40+ 	1st 	FUM2007 	Lions 	15 	48 	756 	15.8 	50.4 	49 	4 	12 	1 	38 	1
 
jurb26 said:
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
I think that's a good question.........how a guy who off his rookie year and who was basically said to be one of the greatest prospects ever to come into the pros somehow is on even par in terms of dynasty with a guy like Holmes who is pretty good but not a superstar.
Click to expand...
Because people playing fantasy football know that actual points win games, not potential points.
Click to expand...
I take it you don't play in dynasties, because the people who are better at projecting potential points are the ones who excel.The evaluation of future potential points is HUGE when evaluating players as it relates to dynasty leagues.
 
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
jurb26 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
moderated said:
Calvin is grossly under-valued based on rankings i've seen IMO.Not many WR's have his upside. i really don't see Holmes in the same stratosphere as Calvin. I don't own CJ, but i'd want at least Holmes + a top 5 pick as well, so i don't think your asking too much for him. Just because the general public (most who don't even play dynasties) have Holmes in the same league doesn't mean much.Based on talking with the people whos dynasty minds i respect not one of them would take holmes over Calvin, in fact they would probably laugh at someone who valued them the same.
Click to expand...
No kidding. I must admit many of the responses I'm seeing in this thread in regards to CJ2's value are quite....disappointing.Calvin's numbers this past year weren't great, but they were right around what many projected for him as a rookie WR (where very few people have success). So, how is it that a guy who last year was touted as perhaps the best WR prospect EVER and who many were taking over the best RB prospect we've seen in years that did what most people expected out of him in year 1 is now being talked about in trades for a handful of worthless draft picks?Talk about your knee jerk reactions. Yeesh, if CJ2's value is this low right now I guess it's time for me to go after him.Although, it's no surprise that the highly respected dynasty regulars around here all have his value much higher than the knee-jerkers.
Click to expand...
Holmes rookie season was just as impressive as Johnson's, maybe more so. He emerged last season as a true playmaker and would have easily broken into the top 12 WRs had he not missed 3 games.
Click to expand...
Right, but the point is Johnson was hyped to be this megastud and he's basically asking what's changed.Is all that's changed is Holmes had a pretty good season and now all that hype about Johnson has dissipitated? The answer is pretty much yes. It's on to the next guy now.
Click to expand...
Umm, Holmes was a 1st round draft pick himself and has now had 2 more than just pretty good seasons. Your ignorance towards Holmes is a bit extreme.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I will bump this post after next year. Calvin isn't in the same tier as Holmes, NO WAY !!! There's a reason why Calvin is the best WR prospect we've seen for a long long time.

 
moderated said:
jurb26 said:
Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
I think that's a good question.........how a guy who off his rookie year and who was basically said to be one of the greatest prospects ever to come into the pros somehow is on even par in terms of dynasty with a guy like Holmes who is pretty good but not a superstar.
Click to expand...
Because people playing fantasy football know that actual points win games, not potential points.
Click to expand...
I take it you don't play in dynasties, because the people who are better at projecting potential points are the ones who excel.The evaluation of future potential points is HUGE when evaluating players as it relates to dynasty leagues.
Click to expand...
Well apparently I'm not the only one who thinks Holmes is rather comparable to Johnson.Johnson/Holmes

 
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