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Rotoworld Dynasty Rankings QBs (1 Viewer)

Max Power

Footballguy
QUARTERBACKS

TIER ONE

1. Peyton Manning IND 32 - With Clark re-signed and Gonzalez ready to step up if Marvin doesn't snap back, Manning's consistency trumps Brady's career year

2. Tom Brady NE 31 - Remains the NFL's best QB; Moss' return guarantees another great season, but Brady is not going to hit 50 TDs again

3. Ben Roethlisberger PIT 26 - Easily the third best QB in the NFL and may bypass one of the Big Two in the next couple of years

4. Carson Palmer CIN 28 - Can he bounce all the way back from an extremely disappointing season? Chad Johnson is going nowhere, and Chris Henry will be available for a full season . . . if he stays out of jail

5. Tony Romo DAL 28 - Will move up if Dallas brings in a talented WR; two straight disappointing playoff performances and an over-reliance on T.O. leave room for doubt about level of future dominance

6. Drew Brees NO 29 - Should be good for a consistent 4,000 yards and 25-30 TDs every year for the next few years, but what's with the Saints re-signing their own dreck at WR & TE the past couple of weeks?

TIER TWO

7. Donovan McNabb PHI 31 - QBs like Eli Manning and Phil Rivers have been ranked ahead of him, in which case McNabb is the ideal buy low candidate for dynasty leaguers

8. Jay Cutler DEN 25 - Impressive yards per attempt and completion numbers bode very well for future; would have liked to have seen a better acquisition than Keary Colbert, but Scheffler and Marshall form a very nice duo

9. Marc Bulger STL 31 - Al Saunders and an improved offensive line could bring production back in line with career norms, but don't expect many TDs

10. Matt Hasselbeck SEA 33 - Who is he going to be throwing to this year? With the Seahawks making an effort to upgrade the running game, he can't count on abnormally high passing attempt numbers again



TIER THREE

11. Derek Anderson CLE 25 - A window to make his mark as the Browns' franchise QB with the addition of Stallworth as a #3 weapon behind Edwards and Winslow; slightly worrisome >word out of the Columbus Dispatch is that Anderson's 2009 bonus could essentially make his new contract a one-year deal if he doesn't play up to expectations

12. Vince Young TEN 25 - Deserved a better fate last season after seeing a freakish number of TDs called back due to penalty, drops by a lousy receiving crew, or poor route running/miscommunication. Still has plenty of upside and the possibility of a true break-out season if the light flips on with improved weaponry

13. Matt Schaub HOU 27 - He's going to have to stay healthy for all 16 games to shake the injury concerns, but there's a lot to like here. The yards per attempt and completion percentage were very promising, so he just needs to find Johnson and Daniels in the end zone more often to take the next step to reliable #1 as opposed to an aspiring Bulger

14. David Garrard JAX 30 - A much better QB than commonly believed, but he's not likely to surpass last year's passing quality. If the running game slips from true dominance, does Garrard's production see an uptick from the increased attempts or do the passing lanes start to close with the defense no longer selling out against the run?

15. Eli Manning NYG 27 - The 64,000 Question: Did the epiphany occur in the last six weeks, or was it simply the flip-side of an inconsistent QB hitting a hot streak? I believe the latter, and I can't see how even a true believer can feel comfortable relying on a streaky, inconsistent Eli as a QB1 going forward

16. Matt Leinart ARI 25 - High risk, high reward; after Warner's performance, there's going to be pressure to perform well right from the start. But if he does, he could easily see a 25 TD, 3700 yard season

17. Philip Rivers SD 26 - Good news and bad news: The good news is that Rivers finally delivered consistently under pressure once the playoffs started. The bad news is that he showed flashes of David Carr happy feet and lack of arm strength during the season. Even worse, the ACL injury he suffered happened later in the season than Daunte Culpepper's, Carson Palmer's, and Donovan McNabb's . . . all of whom were much better QBs and struggled considerably in their first season back from injury. Why would we expect Rivers to do anything but disappoint in '08?

TIER FOUR

18. Aaron Rodgers GB 24 - Legit concern that he's been injury-prone in limited duty, but the pieces are already in place for him to succeed; just as importantly, he has both his coach and his GM glowing about his vast improvement over the past year

19. Brady Quinn CLE 23 - Derek Anderson's $5M bonus before next season basically makes the 2-QB system a one year experiment. Quinn could definitely exploit an opening if Anderson doesn't show himself to be the Browns franchise QB in '08. The future is uncertain, but one of the two Browns QBs is likely to be starting elsewhere next season

20. Jason Campbell WAS 26 - It would be foolish not to count on an adjustment period to the West Coast Offense and a new coaching staff; we've all seen him look very poised at times and extremely underwhelming at other times, so it will be interesting to watch his growth throughout '08. Remember the Losman/Grossman Effect: young QBs don't always get better

22. JaMarcus Russell OAK 23 - Top of the line arm, perfect size, prodigious talent, but the footwork was an absolute mess and questions persist about his decision making; his career could go either way, and unfortunately, Oakland isn't exactly the ideal proving ground for a developing QB right now

23. Jake Delhomme CAR 33 - Would make for the ideal throw-in on a larger deal if you believe he'll fully recover from Tommy John surgery; job security issues damage his long-term dynasty value, but he could recoup quite a bit of value in '08 with a more explosive offense featuring the always special Steve Smith plus the move to DeAngelo Williams at RB, and the additions of D.J. Hackett and Muhsin Muhammad

24. Trent Edwards BUF 24 - Positive marks for poise, smarts, and an ability to lead an offense, but he needs to take a major step forward in playmaking and consistency; an upgrade in weapons would be nice as new OC Schonert plans to open up the passing game

25. Drew Stanton DET 24 - Jon Kitna will be on a much shorter leash, so expect Stanton to get a chance at some point in '08; if Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams remain in Detroit, Stanton makes for a very intriguing high upside pet project

26. Kellen Clemens NYJ 25 - Jets have nicely revamped a previously problematic offensive line and may be the favorites to land Darren McFadden. With an O-Line and a friendly running game, Clemens will be better able to get the ball to Coles and Cotchery.

TIER FIVE

27. Kevin Kolb PHI 24 - The new Matt Schaub? The new Aaron Rodgers? Either way, his value likely depends substantially on your league's roster size. He's a very nice stash as long as you realize he's a roster ornament for at least another year. Hope for one of the following: in-season injury to McNabb, a post-2008 McNabb trade, or Kolb becomes the new Schaub-like savior for a QB-desperate franchise

28. Shaun Hill SF 28 - More of a game-manager type than Martz' previous QBs, but he does offer athleticism, a quick release, and the ability to lead an offense. There's some upside here, and if he beats out Alex Smith for the starting job, the whole 49er offense should receive a boost in value

29. Tarvaris Jackson MIN 25 - If-big IF-Tarvaris can put it together, Berrian and a more experienced Sidney Rice offer some intriguing potential. I just can't get over the fact that he's the exact opposite of what the current Vikings franchise needs in a QB

30. Jon Kitna DET 36 - Still has a window on '08 value with playmakers Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams, but his margin for error is razor-thin with Stanton waiting in the wings . . . and Kitna is never a strong bet to defeat his margin of error

31. Kurt Warner ARI 37 - Simply put, he needs Leinart to fall on his face in the pre-season. Warner threw up valuable fantasy numbers the last 12 games of '07 and can do it again if given the opportunity

32. Daunte Culpepper UFA 31 - The opportunity isn't likely to be forthcoming (nor should it be), but Culpepper makes for a nice high-upside, albeit long shot, stash. Better to carry a long shot with high upside than a player you will never use even if he does get an opportunity to play

TIER SIX

33. Alex Smith SF 24 - Two of his three NFL seasons have produced historically bad performances. I don't think he beats Shaun Hill in a fair competition, but the 49ers have a lot invested here

34. John Beck MIA 27 - Thoroughly unimpressive in a four game rookie trial. It remains to be seen if he'll be given the reigns to start in '08, but either way there's not going to be much of a grace period

35. J.P. Losman BUF 27 - It's getting awfully late in the game for Losman to find a starting opportunity via trade. His best bet for value would be with Chiefs, Falcons, Vikings, or Ravens

36. Jeff Garcia TB 38.5 - He's a better NFL than fantasy QB at this stage of his career and a poor bet at age 38 to stay as healthy and productive as last season

37. Chad Pennington NYJ 32 - Due a hefty bonus and salary this season, the onus is on the Jets to find a taker. It's simply not practical to have a backup QB making that kind of scratch; the Vikings would be a perfect match

38. Byron Leftwich UFA 28 - I still say he can help several teams around the league as a starting QB. For all of the talk about the long windup, he's long been a low turnover QB without a sack problem

39. Sage Rosenfels HOU 30 - The Practically Perfect Backup QB could pick up some value if traded to the Vikes, but will certainly drop a tier if he remains in Houston

40. Luke McCown TB 27 - The better of the Passing McCown Brothers has flashed some interesting ability in small doses. Would have to beat out Griese to get on the field this season, but this McCown could conceivably have a future as a starter down the road

41.Troy Smith BAL 24 - Not ready yet to help an offense put up consistent points, but he has shown impressive field general abilities. Still raw, but may get a shot down the road

42. Kyle Orton CHI 25 - Plucky. That's it. That's the list. OK, neckbeard. That's on the list too. Woe are the Bears

43. Rex Grossman CHI 28 - Come on. He's simply odious. Before last season, I called him a "turnover prone, inconsistent, inaccurate headcase." I was feeling nice that day

44. Brodie Croyle KC 25 - If Grossman is odious, then Croyle is, of course, appallingly bad. The Chiefs are seriously deluded if he starts week one

TIER SEVEN

45. Steve McNair BAL 35 - The early favorite to start in Baltimore, but it's going to be tough for even the bionic man to throw with a fork sticking out of his back

46. Chris Redman ATL 31 - Last man standing could be a band-aid for a year, but I don't think the Falcons are done shopping quite yet

47. Quinn Gray UFA 29 - Another long release guy, this one comes with major accuracy and consistency issues but possesses all the physical tools; could end up in Green Bay as Rodgers' backup

48. Seneca Wallace SEA 28 - Could put up interesting fantasy numbers if ever given a shot at regular playing time

49. Damon Huard KC 35 - He's no great shakes, but he's a hell of a lot better than Brodie Croyle; with the Chiefs far from contending mode, Huard is stuck in no man's land

50. Matt Moore CAR 24 - Looked decent in late season action . . . certainly better than any Carolina backups of the past two seasons

51. Brian Griese TB 33 - Will battle Luke McCown to see who starts once Garcia gets injured

52. *Michael Vick ATL 28 - How large is your roster?

53. Billy Volek SD 32 - Fantasy leaguers keep insisting that he must be passing up better opportunities elsewhere; but what are the chances NFL GMs are as fond of his game as fantasy owners are?

54. Trent Green STL 38 - Decent shot at Kurt Warner-like startable value if Bulger goes down, but keep in mind any value would be of the fleeting variety

55. Kyle Boller BAL 27 - Has failed and failed again to generate offense. Poor man's Rex Grossman lacks the headcase nature but also the playmaking ability

 
Well it has already been pulled from the site... :shrug:
Hi guys,They were having some technical issues, but I think the rankings are back up. May not be top story again until tomorrow, but they're on the front NFL page under columns.Edit to add: Should have WR & TE up by Wed. night or Thursday morning.
 
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Is it me or is Drew Stanton WAY too high?
Certainly seems like he and Moore should be much more closely ranked than they are.
Why would they be?
I like Stanton, so I don't think he's overrated. But if you're going to put a back-up who hasn't seen the field that high, it strikes me as strange to see another backup who's the same age but has played (and played well) 25 spots further down your list. It's like you set a precedent for potential by ranking Stanton at 25, but then ignore it when you get to Moore. The guy had a 62% completion rate, 7.1 yards per attempt, and 3 TD to 2 Ints in his 3 games as starter, 2 of which the team won. I find it hard to believe he won't get another shot or that his chances of success further down the road are worse than guys like Troy Smith, Kyle Orton, Brodie Croyle, Chris Redman, and Seneca Wallace, all of whom you apparently think are more worthwhile to own than Moore.
 
IMO Big Ben is to low....he belongs around 7 or 8
:sleep: Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
I think he means that #3 is too high, and he should be around 7 or 8, which I can see.
3 may be too high ( my personal ranking of Ben is at #5 ), but I can't see going lower than #6. For those that put him at 7 or 8, are you saying he should drop to tier 2, or that somebody from tier 2 should be in tier 1? Who would become #6? I normally wouldn't squabble over 1 ranking position, but with the division of talent here, I want to get some discussion.For me, Cutler's not on that level ( yet? ), Donovan and Bulger are possibilities to make the jump but coming off their 2007 campaigns you can't rate them over Ben, and Hasselbeck is... well, he's Hasselbeck. He's about as close to a lock of finishing at QB10 as you can get.ETA: :goodposting: @ Biabreakable.
 
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I would move Big Ben down to the #6 spot, IMO the 1st tier would be

Manning

Brady

Palmer

I would start the next tier from there.

 
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I would move Big Ben down to the #6 spot, IMO the 1st tier would be

Manning

Brady

Palmer

I would start the next tier from there.
Really? What separates Carson from Brees or Romo?
The fact that he's a better QB and the cream rises to the top.
Eh. Can't really buy this one. Numbers....
Code:
Year	 Age  Tm Pos  G GS  Cmp  Att Cmp%   Yds  TD Int Int% 2004	  25 CIN  QB 13 13  263  432 60.9  2897  18 18  4.22005*	 26 CIN  QB 16 16  345  509 67.8  3836  32 12  2.42006*	 27 CIN  QB 16 16  324  520 62.3  4035  28 13  2.52007	  28 CIN  QB 16 16  373  575 64.9  4131  26 20  3.52004*	 25 SDG  QB 15 15  262  400 65.5  3159  27 7  1.8 2005	  26 SDG  QB 16 16  323  500 64.6  3576  24 15  3.02006*+	27 NOR  QB 16 16  356  554 64.3  4418  26 11  2.02007	  28 NOR  QB 16 16  440  652 67.5  4423  28 18  2.8
Other than Carson's 2005 season, Brees was with him stride for stride, at least equaling Carson's production in most categories, and beating him in many. The other significant part of this is that Brees has done this without the powerhouse tandem of Housh and Chad as targets. Actually, I have to wonder why F&L believes that Carson can come back from an "extremely disappointing season", when his numbers are relatively close to 2006 ( other than the picks ). Seems to me that 4000/28 is about Carson's wheelhouse. Can you really say that its not for Brees?
 
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I still think Rivers is way too low.

Only 2 years ago he was the #7 scoring QB in my main dynasty league. Last year he got off to a bad start but so did the entire Chargers O. I blame this on the new system brought in by Norv Turner. Rivers was the #8 QB in my main league for the last 6 weeks of the season and this was getting pulled early in alot of games as SD destroyed teams. Chambers being brought in was huge also. He was also very big in the playoffs and this was on that knee injury that FL wanted to talk about as a worry. He has already played on the knee with the injury and I dont think it was nearly as severe as McNabb. Culpepper and Palmer who could not play through it.

The cast for SD is just too good not to be a successful fantasy QB. I put him ahead of many on the list. Who has Chambers, Jackson, Gates and LT to keep the pressure off and a great outlet plus a not bad OL and a great D to play with. How is Travis henry, Marshall and Sheffler better than this. SD's 3rd and 4th WR are better than Kerry Colbert and you have Cutler way higher.

I just think your putting too much stock in an injury and forgetting about learning a new system and what Chambers did for this O to improve it. I would be happy to wait to get Rivers as my #1 QB in a fantasy league.

 
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I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?

 
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I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs. Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
First off I like the list Max Power and appreciate the thought and insight that went into it: Thanks!I agree with Fubar though in a nit picking sort of way. In dynasty I will gamble with younger guys like Eil, Rivers, Anderson and Leinart as opposed to the likes of McNabb and Bulger. For instance, Eli at 27 years of age is coming off of a SB win and 14th, 13th and 5th place finishes in the last 3 years of fantasy football out of the QB position. That is more appealing to me then Bulger and Mcnabb 5 years older facing many more question marks.
 
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I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.

 
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Fear & Loathing said:
I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think anyone is arguing against Tom Brady and Payton Manning as being drafted as top end dynasty QB's. And I also agree that some people may over value age in dynasty leagues, but acquiring young Brady's is what can set you up to be a top end team for many years to come. For instance many people last year may have had McNabb ranked ahead of guys like Romo and Cutler. Well the guys that drafted last season would not have been dissapointed picking Romo. If you are going to draft a young QB you have to make the most calculated pick reducing the bust factor risk. That is why you need to evaluate situation in past and going forward. Eli Manning is the starting QB for the Giants now and for the future guranteed. He already has 3 top 15 finishes in his first 3 years as a starter and one of those was a 5th place finish and he just turned 27 years old. Is it really that big a gamble to take him over the often injured McNabb or Bulger? I don't. Also, I would probably even perfer Eil over Hasselbeck who is 7 years older than Eli.

Now you can use a 3 year parameter in many instances, but if you can have Eli for the next 8 to 10 years of prime production versus Hasselbeck for 3 to 4 then I look past the 3 year parameter. When Hasselbeck is 37 Manning will just be turning 30.

 
McNabb is the hardest guy to get a read on for me, I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish in the top-3 and I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't finish in the top-12. I guess what I'm saying is 7th seems like hedging.

 
Fear & Loathing said:
I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think anyone is arguing against Tom Brady and Payton Manning as being drafted as top end dynasty QB's. And I also agree that some people may over value age in dynasty leagues, but acquiring young Brady's is what can set you up to be a top end team for many years to come. For instance many people last year may have had McNabb ranked ahead of guys like Romo and Cutler. Well the guys that drafted last season would not have been dissapointed picking Romo. If you are going to draft a young QB you have to make the most calculated pick reducing the bust factor risk. That is why you need to evaluate situation in past and going forward. Eli Manning is the starting QB for the Giants now and for the future guranteed. He already has 3 top 15 finishes in his first 3 years as a starter and one of those was a 5th place finish and he just turned 27 years old. Is it really that big a gamble to take him over the often injured McNabb or Bulger? I don't. Also, I would probably even perfer Eil over Hasselbeck who is 7 years older than Eli.

Now you can use a 3 year parameter in many instances, but if you can have Eli for the next 8 to 10 years of prime production versus Hasselbeck for 3 to 4 then I look past the 3 year parameter. When Hasselbeck is 37 Manning will just be turning 30.
There's a difference between trying to find those young QB's that are going to turn into the next Peyton's and Brady's and Palmer's and actually ranking them ahead of those guys. The original comment was that it doesn't look like age meant much in these rankings and it absolutely doesn't. If there is a position where age probably factors in the least is QB. It would be nice to have one of these younger guys, sure, but who would trade off Peyton or Palmer for Rivers? Or Cutler? It would be absurd. In a few years, when Peyton and Palmer have moved on and Cutler and Big Ben are in their 30's and leading the league, then they will be 1 and 2 with another group of young guys ranked below them waiting to take their spots. But, there is absolutely no reason to even consider not having Peyton or Brady or Palmer ranked at the top simply bc they are over 30 when all 3 of them still have several years left to go.
 
Fear & Loathing said:
I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think anyone is arguing against Tom Brady and Payton Manning as being drafted as top end dynasty QB's. And I also agree that some people may over value age in dynasty leagues, but acquiring young Brady's is what can set you up to be a top end team for many years to come. For instance many people last year may have had McNabb ranked ahead of guys like Romo and Cutler. Well the guys that drafted last season would not have been dissapointed picking Romo. If you are going to draft a young QB you have to make the most calculated pick reducing the bust factor risk. That is why you need to evaluate situation in past and going forward. Eli Manning is the starting QB for the Giants now and for the future guranteed. He already has 3 top 15 finishes in his first 3 years as a starter and one of those was a 5th place finish and he just turned 27 years old. Is it really that big a gamble to take him over the often injured McNabb or Bulger? I don't. Also, I would probably even perfer Eil over Hasselbeck who is 7 years older than Eli.

Now you can use a 3 year parameter in many instances, but if you can have Eli for the next 8 to 10 years of prime production versus Hasselbeck for 3 to 4 then I look past the 3 year parameter. When Hasselbeck is 37 Manning will just be turning 30.
Re: McNabb vs. Manning. I don't think they're even close in value . . . at least not what I want in a dynasty QB. I just don't think Eli is that good of a QB, and I think McNabb has been underrated his whole career. Give me the guy who has a chance to be a difference maker. That's McNabb. I don't see Eli ever being a difference maker. He's thoroughly mediocre.What it all comes down to for all of us is that we bank on the young guys we see being studs eventually. You obviously believe Eli will. I just don't see it. Now Big Ben, I've been all over him for years. His talent was obvious even with many shark poolers sleeping on him (still sleeping for that matter).

 
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I still think Rivers is way too low. Only 2 years ago he was the #7 scoring QB in my main dynasty league. Last year he got off to a bad start but so did the entire Chargers O. I blame this on the new system brought in by Norv Turner. Rivers was the #8 QB in my main league for the last 6 weeks of the season and this was getting pulled early in alot of games as SD destroyed teams. Chambers being brought in was huge also. He was also very big in the playoffs and this was on that knee injury that FL wanted to talk about as a worry. He has already played on the knee with the injury and I dont think it was nearly as severe as McNabb. Culpepper and Palmer who could not play through it. The cast for SD is just too good not to be a successful fantasy QB. I put him ahead of many on the list. Who has Chambers, Jackson, Gates and LT to keep the pressure off and a great outlet plus a not bad OL and a great D to play with. How is Travis henry, Marshall and Sheffler better than this. SD's 3rd and 4th WR are better than Kerry Colbert and you have Cutler way higher. I just think your putting too much stock in an injury and forgetting about learning a new system and what Chambers did for this O to improve it. I would be happy to wait to get Rivers as my #1 QB in a fantasy league.
You raise some good points: He did have a good '06. Chambers addition was much bigger than most believed it would be(especially the stats guys who have always bashed Chambers for a nebulous stat like catch %). Rivers was brilliant in the playoffs on a bum knee. The cast is very good. Here's where I'm coming from: - His ACL was completely torn. If he was healthy, I would definitely have him higher. But as we've seen with other QBs recently---Palmer, McNabb, Culpepper---they are a shadow of their former selves in coming back from surgery. All of them were better QBs than Rivers at the time, and they all struggled to play well afterwards. My guess is his startable value for the '08 season is very low. You see it differently, but to my mind that's not very realistic.- So if he's not going to be startable in '08, is he more valuable than other guys with promising futures who do figure to be startable? - What's his future beyond next season? I covered Rivers quite a few times during the season, and I saw an inconsistent QB with happy feet and a lack of arm strength. If there's one alarming sign in a young QB, it's a guy who is so afraid to get hit that he starts backing away at the first sign of pressure. I don't like scared QBs who rattle easily. Phil Rivers played like that guy for a decent portion of '07. To be sure, I also saw him stand in and make some of the most beautiful passes I've ever seen in the playoffs while gutting it out on a bum knee. Which is the real Phil Rivers? The David Carr happy feet clone who shies away from pressure? The smack-talker who wolfed it up against Indy fans and Jay Cutler? The pure, gutsy passer from the playoffs? I'm not sure, but it would be a lot easier for me to look on the bright side if I thought the ACL would not hold him back for at least a year.- What do you make of an accurate QB with great weapons who played magnificently in the playoffs but had wilted against pressure consistently up to that point in his career, had been rattled against good defenses while putting up numbers against poor defenses, possesses below average arm strength, and has a habit of going overboard on smacktalking . . . almost to the point that you feel like he's trying to compensate for something? He's a tough guy to rank. Like I said, there's something here to like, but there's also a lot not to like. He could go either way.
 
Is it me or is Drew Stanton WAY too high?
Certainly seems like he and Moore should be much more closely ranked than they are.
Why would they be?
I like Stanton, so I don't think he's overrated. But if you're going to put a back-up who hasn't seen the field that high, it strikes me as strange to see another backup who's the same age but has played (and played well) 25 spots further down your list. It's like you set a precedent for potential by ranking Stanton at 25, but then ignore it when you get to Moore. The guy had a 62% completion rate, 7.1 yards per attempt, and 3 TD to 2 Ints in his 3 games as starter, 2 of which the team won. I find it hard to believe he won't get another shot or that his chances of success further down the road are worse than guys like Troy Smith, Kyle Orton, Brodie Croyle, Chris Redman, and Seneca Wallace, all of whom you apparently think are more worthwhile to own than Moore.
Good answer. Here's how I see it:Stanton is a 2nd round pick who will absolutely be given a chance to become the team's franchise QB. In fact, that chance is likely to be forthcoming this year. When he does get that chance, he's going to be throwing the ball to two of the most talented WRs in the game. You could argue that Calvin Johnson & Roy Williams are more talented than Fitz & Boldin. I don't have a good read yet on Stanton's NFL talent, but dominant talents at WR can turn an average QB into a top fantasy QB. Stanton is by no means a sure bet, but his fantasy upside is treee-mendous. He's an intriguing guy to have stashed on your roster on the off chance that everything clicks with those thoroughbred receivers. He'll be well worth it if they do.Matt Moore was an undrafted rookie who sat while two of the worst QBs in the NFL played ahead of him. When Vinny got hurt, and Carr embarrassed himself so badly that there was no way they could send him back out without a fan revolt, Moore got a chance. He finished with a 56.8% completion rate and a 3/5 TD/INT ratio. I saw him play several times. He looked poor a couple of times, looked decent against Dallas, and played fairly well against Tampa's 2nd/3rd stringers in Week 17. But he didn't look like a guy who will ever be much of a fantasy factor. He certainly doesn't have Stanton's upside. And while Stanton will definitely get a shot to prove his mettle as a franchise QB, there's so sign that Moore will. Barring another Delhomme injury (granted, a decent possibility), he may not even see the field for a couple of years. I think his upside is good backup/below average starter, and that's assuming he ever gets a chance to be a starting QB for an NFL team.
 
Actually, I have to wonder why F&L believes that Carson can come back from an "extremely disappointing season", when his numbers are relatively close to 2006 ( other than the picks ). Seems to me that 4000/28 is about Carson's wheelhouse. Can you really say that its not for Brees?
Because if you followed the Bengals this season, you know that Carson Palmer had a very disappointing season. Some of the most knowledgable Bengals fans I know have said things to me like, "I don't know if Carson will ever be the QB he was in 2005. He's just not the same QB." He consistently overthrew receivers last season, and he threw a ton of interceptions.I'm not saying he's a bad QB, or even that he had a bad year by average QB standards. But he had a poor year for his standards. And I still like him . . . as long as Chad Johnson sticks around and lines up in Week 1.
 
Actually, I have to wonder why F&L believes that Carson can come back from an "extremely disappointing season", when his numbers are relatively close to 2006 ( other than the picks ). Seems to me that 4000/28 is about Carson's wheelhouse. Can you really say that its not for Brees?
Because if you followed the Bengals this season, you know that Carson Palmer had a very disappointing season. Some of the most knowledgable Bengals fans I know have said things to me like, "I don't know if Carson will ever be the QB he was in 2005. He's just not the same QB." He consistently overthrew receivers last season, and he threw a ton of interceptions.I'm not saying he's a bad QB, or even that he had a bad year by average QB standards. But he had a poor year for his standards. And I still like him . . . as long as Chad Johnson sticks around and lines up in Week 1.
Yeah I guess that's what lends me towards believing his potential lies in the 4000/28 range rather than the 4500/33. He's shown that "magic" **once** in his career. I can say the same for Eli Manning. :confused:I don't have a lot of knowledge about the Bengals, admittedly, but I agree that they, as a collective, had a pretty mediocre and disappointing season, and that Carson was a part of that. The problem is that his numbers are close to what they were the year before. Sure, his ypa went down, but not dramatically ( 7.8 to 7.2 ), but his completion percentage actually went UP, though again not dramatically ( 62.3 to 64.9 ). For me it just seems that Carson's FANTASY 2007 couldn't have been significantly more disappointing than his 2006, and as such I don't know why I should continue to characterize them as disappointments rather than his "standard". Again, I didn't watch the Bengals games on the edge of my seat, but from the numbers it seems like the concept that Carson "consistently overthrew his receivers" may stem from him doing it in the wrong situations and thus making it more memorable, not because it happened more often. That's admittedly just a "by the numbers" eval, but it sounds like Bengals fans are putting hopeful expectations on Carson like Saints fans are putting hopeful expectations on Bush.Honestly though, I don't care that much, other that to note that if there was a reason for me to think that Carson could get to the Brady/Manning Tier then I'd like to know about it. For me, he's firmly entrenched in that second tier of guys with Brees and Romo and I'd like to know why some believe he should be a step above.
 
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Fear & Loathing said:
I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.
I hope you realize I was just pointing out some observations, not saying I disagree. The last line should show you that I have no problem whatsoever with taking a 30 year old QB. I just want to pair him with a younger guy with some upside. Most 30 year old QBs have hit their ceiling (both for production and value) unless they suddenly get Randy Moss, or for some reason hadn't been given a chance to start - Garrard.
 
Fear & Loathing said:
I'm over-analyzing, but I find it interesting that:

Tier 1 - top 2 are over 30 and only one of the 6 is under 28 (Ben, 26)

Tier 2 - 3/4 are over 30 and only one of the 4 is under 28 (Cutler, 25) - a separation of 6 years; I'm betting Cutler goes a fair amount higher than the other 3.

Tier 3 - Only one of the 7 is over 28 (Garrard, 30)

Tier 4 - Only one is over 26 (Delhomme, 33)

After that it's a mix of longshots and over-the-hills; barely relevant QBs.

Off hand, it doesn't look like age meant much in this dynasty ranking. I'll take Ben and Cutler in any league, but it might be best to pair an older tier 1/2 guy with a young 3/4?
I will never understand this sentiment in dynasty leagues.You know who else is young? Alex Smith. Tarvaris Jackson. Brodie Croyle. Kellen Clemens. You can't rank solely on potential and shove production to the side. It's production that ultimately determines how successfully you will be as a dynasty owner.

I see guys making this same mistake in dynasty leagues constantly. They mistake the very meaning of a dynasty league. A dynasty league doesn't mean assembling the most youthful roster. The idea is to win every year with a balanced nucleus. The problem with having a young QB as your QB1 is that you have to put them in your starting lineup, so the guys with productive QBs are going to kill you weekly. There goes your dynasty. The guy with Peyton Manning just took it from you while you were grooming Eli.

So Tom Brady is 31-years-old and McNabb & Peyton Manning are 32-years-old? Big flipping deal? They're QBs. Is it time to panic because you're only going to get elite production for 5-6 more years? That's ludicrous. You cannot look that far ahead in dynasty leagues. Change happens too fast in the NFL, and your job is to react to change.

Yes, some of those young QBs will get better. Some will get worse. Some will remain mediocre. If I have a good feel for which ones will get better (Big Ben, Cutler, Vince Young) and which ones will get worse (last year I had Grossman & Losman as getting worse) and which ones will stay mediocre (Eli, Rivers), then that's how I'll rank them. But we don't know which QBs of that group will ultimately become stars and which will stumble; we can only guess. Meanwhile, we know most of the guys in Tiers 1 & 2 will stay productive.

I have no problem with banking on young players who are elite talents and have the possibility to be difference-makers. In fact, those are the guys I constantly target as they are worth their weight in gold. But I will not rank all young players higher simply because they are young. Most of them will end up being disappointments. If you want to win, do not make the mistake of valuing youth over production.
I hope you realize I was just pointing out some observations, not saying I disagree. The last line should show you that I have no problem whatsoever with taking a 30 year old QB. I just want to pair him with a younger guy with some upside. Most 30 year old QBs have hit their ceiling (both for production and value) unless they suddenly get Randy Moss, or for some reason hadn't been given a chance to start - Garrard.
Yeah, sorry about that FUBAR. I noticed I went a little overboard after I went back and re-read both of our posts. Mea culpa.And I totally agree about pairing QBs of different ages and/or different stages of their careers.

 
I still think Rivers is way too low. Only 2 years ago he was the #7 scoring QB in my main dynasty league. Last year he got off to a bad start but so did the entire Chargers O. I blame this on the new system brought in by Norv Turner. Rivers was the #8 QB in my main league for the last 6 weeks of the season and this was getting pulled early in alot of games as SD destroyed teams. Chambers being brought in was huge also. He was also very big in the playoffs and this was on that knee injury that FL wanted to talk about as a worry. He has already played on the knee with the injury and I dont think it was nearly as severe as McNabb. Culpepper and Palmer who could not play through it. The cast for SD is just too good not to be a successful fantasy QB. I put him ahead of many on the list. Who has Chambers, Jackson, Gates and LT to keep the pressure off and a great outlet plus a not bad OL and a great D to play with. How is Travis henry, Marshall and Sheffler better than this. SD's 3rd and 4th WR are better than Kerry Colbert and you have Cutler way higher. I just think your putting too much stock in an injury and forgetting about learning a new system and what Chambers did for this O to improve it. I would be happy to wait to get Rivers as my #1 QB in a fantasy league.
You raise some good points: He did have a good '06. Chambers addition was much bigger than most believed it would be(especially the stats guys who have always bashed Chambers for a nebulous stat like catch %). Rivers was brilliant in the playoffs on a bum knee. The cast is very good. Here's where I'm coming from: - His ACL was completely torn. If he was healthy, I would definitely have him higher. But as we've seen with other QBs recently---Palmer, McNabb, Culpepper---they are a shadow of their former selves in coming back from surgery. All of them were better QBs than Rivers at the time, and they all struggled to play well afterwards. My guess is his startable value for the '08 season is very low. You see it differently, but to my mind that's not very realistic.- So if he's not going to be startable in '08, is he more valuable than other guys with promising futures who do figure to be startable? - What's his future beyond next season? I covered Rivers quite a few times during the season, and I saw an inconsistent QB with happy feet and a lack of arm strength. If there's one alarming sign in a young QB, it's a guy who is so afraid to get hit that he starts backing away at the first sign of pressure. I don't like scared QBs who rattle easily. Phil Rivers played like that guy for a decent portion of '07. To be sure, I also saw him stand in and make some of the most beautiful passes I've ever seen in the playoffs while gutting it out on a bum knee. Which is the real Phil Rivers? The David Carr happy feet clone who shies away from pressure? The smack-talker who wolfed it up against Indy fans and Jay Cutler? The pure, gutsy passer from the playoffs? I'm not sure, but it would be a lot easier for me to look on the bright side if I thought the ACL would not hold him back for at least a year.- What do you make of an accurate QB with great weapons who played magnificently in the playoffs but had wilted against pressure consistently up to that point in his career, had been rattled against good defenses while putting up numbers against poor defenses, possesses below average arm strength, and has a habit of going overboard on smacktalking . . . almost to the point that you feel like he's trying to compensate for something? He's a tough guy to rank. Like I said, there's something here to like, but there's also a lot not to like. He could go either way.
You talk about career. You realize he has only started 2 seasons in the NFL. A 7th and 15th ranking with 24-8 starting record. Where as YOung is 11 and 21 in last 2 years starting. And what you talk about as happy feet, I think was getting used to a new O. I agree he did struggle last year but to me that is getting to know a new O scheme. I watched every SD game last year and there was alot of drops by WR till they got Chambers who seemed to settle things down. QB is about confidence. And I am still under the impression that his knee injury was not the same as the other 3. He played quite a few weeks on it, while they did not take another step on it. And why they struggled some coming back. They where very timid. Dont see how someone who has already played on it would be timid plus his LB mentality. I see more here to like than quite a few guys in tiers 2 and 3. And some of your arguments for ranking other guys dont jive. Like weapons and the struggling part.And the future looks to be very good. I see a guy who is young and top pick in NFL for a reason. I see a team that should be top ranked for a few years as they have done a great job of drafting and signing there young talent to long term contracts. SD should be SB contenders for many years like the Colts and Pats.
 
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I still think Rivers is way too low. Only 2 years ago he was the #7 scoring QB in my main dynasty league. Last year he got off to a bad start but so did the entire Chargers O. I blame this on the new system brought in by Norv Turner. Rivers was the #8 QB in my main league for the last 6 weeks of the season and this was getting pulled early in alot of games as SD destroyed teams. Chambers being brought in was huge also. He was also very big in the playoffs and this was on that knee injury that FL wanted to talk about as a worry. He has already played on the knee with the injury and I dont think it was nearly as severe as McNabb. Culpepper and Palmer who could not play through it. The cast for SD is just too good not to be a successful fantasy QB. I put him ahead of many on the list. Who has Chambers, Jackson, Gates and LT to keep the pressure off and a great outlet plus a not bad OL and a great D to play with. How is Travis henry, Marshall and Sheffler better than this. SD's 3rd and 4th WR are better than Kerry Colbert and you have Cutler way higher. I just think your putting too much stock in an injury and forgetting about learning a new system and what Chambers did for this O to improve it. I would be happy to wait to get Rivers as my #1 QB in a fantasy league.
You raise some good points: He did have a good '06. Chambers addition was much bigger than most believed it would be(especially the stats guys who have always bashed Chambers for a nebulous stat like catch %). Rivers was brilliant in the playoffs on a bum knee. The cast is very good. Here's where I'm coming from: - His ACL was completely torn. If he was healthy, I would definitely have him higher. But as we've seen with other QBs recently---Palmer, McNabb, Culpepper---they are a shadow of their former selves in coming back from surgery. All of them were better QBs than Rivers at the time, and they all struggled to play well afterwards. My guess is his startable value for the '08 season is very low. You see it differently, but to my mind that's not very realistic.- So if he's not going to be startable in '08, is he more valuable than other guys with promising futures who do figure to be startable? - What's his future beyond next season? I covered Rivers quite a few times during the season, and I saw an inconsistent QB with happy feet and a lack of arm strength. If there's one alarming sign in a young QB, it's a guy who is so afraid to get hit that he starts backing away at the first sign of pressure. I don't like scared QBs who rattle easily. Phil Rivers played like that guy for a decent portion of '07. To be sure, I also saw him stand in and make some of the most beautiful passes I've ever seen in the playoffs while gutting it out on a bum knee. Which is the real Phil Rivers? The David Carr happy feet clone who shies away from pressure? The smack-talker who wolfed it up against Indy fans and Jay Cutler? The pure, gutsy passer from the playoffs? I'm not sure, but it would be a lot easier for me to look on the bright side if I thought the ACL would not hold him back for at least a year.- What do you make of an accurate QB with great weapons who played magnificently in the playoffs but had wilted against pressure consistently up to that point in his career, had been rattled against good defenses while putting up numbers against poor defenses, possesses below average arm strength, and has a habit of going overboard on smacktalking . . . almost to the point that you feel like he's trying to compensate for something? He's a tough guy to rank. Like I said, there's something here to like, but there's also a lot not to like. He could go either way.
You talk about career. You realize he has only started 2 seasons in the NFL. A 7th and 15th ranking with 24-8 starting record. Where as YOung is 11 and 21 in last 2 years starting. And what you talk about as happy feet, I think was getting used to a new O. I agree he did struggle last year but to me that is getting to know a new O scheme. I watched every SD game last year and there was alot of drops by WR till they got Chambers who seemed to settle things down. QB is about confidence. And I am still under the impression that his knee injury was not the same as the other 3. He played quite a few weeks on it, while they did not take another step on it. And why they struggled some coming back. They where very timid. Dont see how someone who has already played on it would be timid plus his LB mentality. I see more here to like than quite a few guys in tiers 2 and 3. And some of your arguments for ranking other guys dont jive. Like weapons and the struggling part.And the future looks to be very good. I see a guy who is young and top pick in NFL for a reason. I see a team that should be top ranked for a few years as they have done a great job of drafting and signing there young talent to long term contracts. SD should be SB contenders for many years like the Colts and Pats.
You can call the happy feet getting used to a new O, but I saw a guy who was afraid of pressure. I saw the same thing when he played against good, pressure defenses in '06 . . . and that was not a new O. This is a very legitimate concern for me when I try to gauge Rivers' future. Like I said, it was a very positive sign that he played as tough and as well as he did in the playoffs, but that doesn't mean he's out of the woods yet.We disagree on whether he'll struggle after ACL surgery. That's fine. I think reasonable minds can differ on that. I just think if he doesn't struggle in '08, he'd be the first QB in history not to struggle coming off major knee surgery.Re: Vince Young vs. Rivers. I like Young's fantasy prospects better because of his running ability and the promise he showed in the second half of the '06 season. I think he has the potential to be an impact player. I don't see Rivers being much of an impact player. He could eventually, but like I said, I could see his career going either way.Can you provide an example to back up this statement: "And some of your arguments for ranking other guys dont jive."
 
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I think Schaub is a bit too low. I think he belongs in the 2nd tier, and I might take him over Bulger/Hasselback.

 
I think Schaub is a bit too low. I think he belongs in the 2nd tier, and I might take him over Bulger/Hasselback.
OK, but why?I might take a lot of the guys in Tier 2 over Bulger/Hasselbeck depending on team/roster specificity.
 
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F&L-

First of all, I appreciate the time, the effort and the thought. One player I would love to discuss is Hasselbeck. To me, he is a very tricky one to rank. I think that you wrote a very thoughtful response about not worrying as much about age at the QB position in a dynasty league with talented players- but I am unsure Hasselbeck is a great talent.

He was, to me, a good player in a good system with a good coach and good talent. Now, there are a lot more question marks. Holmgren will be stepping down, Alexander is washed up and teams don't have to respect play action and he has taken a bit of a beating. While I think he is a pretty safe play in the 8-12 range, I am unsure of his staying power. I would move him into the next lower tier behind reasonably productive less proven guys- Anderson, Cutler and Young.

Again- great list.

 
F&L-First of all, I appreciate the time, the effort and the thought. One player I would love to discuss is Hasselbeck. To me, he is a very tricky one to rank. I think that you wrote a very thoughtful response about not worrying as much about age at the QB position in a dynasty league with talented players- but I am unsure Hasselbeck is a great talent. He was, to me, a good player in a good system with a good coach and good talent. Now, there are a lot more question marks. Holmgren will be stepping down, Alexander is washed up and teams don't have to respect play action and he has taken a bit of a beating. While I think he is a pretty safe play in the 8-12 range, I am unsure of his staying power. I would move him into the next lower tier behind reasonably productive less proven guys- Anderson, Cutler and Young. Again- great list.
Thanks, rabidfireweasel.I'll admit that I've had some trouble with Tier 2 vs. Tier 3. I was going to readdress those two tiers after the draft and the 2nd wave of free agency to see what has changed. I think McNabb & Cutler are clearly a cut above. Bulger could bounce back big, or he could stay injury prone in a under-performing offense. Hasselbeck just lost 2 important WRs a year after losing his top WR. There are definitely serious questions involving the two of them for the future, but right now they give you the best opportunity of keeping up with the Palmer's & Brees of the fantasy world. My general sentiment has been that I would rank a tier 3 guy over those 2 if I felt confident in their ability to become---and to stay---weekly fantasy starters. I have that confidence in Cutler, which is why he's ranked higher. But that Tier 3 crowd, to me, is bordering on a dime a dozen. How much are they worth if there are 10-12 of them offering the same possibilities for risk/reward? I think we all pick one or two from that crowd (we've already heard from the Schaub, Eli, and Rivers supporters), and then we get behind that guy. But I think they're all similar in value for fantasy leaguers until they become reliable enough to start or unless you "know" they will end up being a star. I like Derek Anderson's chances of putting up numbers in that offense, but I also think he's not accurate enough and could play himself out of that job with another rough patch. I have an inkling that VY will take a major step forward next season, but the Spidey-senses aren't tingling quite enough yet . . . they may soon.I will definitely revisit those two tiers in the coming weeks.
 
Thanks, rabidfireweasel.I'll admit that I've had some trouble with Tier 2 vs. Tier 3. I was going to readdress those two tiers after the draft and the 2nd wave of free agency to see what has changed. I think McNabb & Cutler are clearly a cut above. Bulger could bounce back big, or he could stay injury prone in a under-performing offense. Hasselbeck just lost 2 important WRs a year after losing his top WR. There are definitely serious questions involving the two of them for the future, but right now they give you the best opportunity of keeping up with the Palmer's & Brees of the fantasy world. My general sentiment has been that I would rank a tier 3 guy over those 2 if I felt confident in their ability to become---and to stay---weekly fantasy starters. I have that confidence in Cutler, which is why he's ranked higher. But that Tier 3 crowd, to me, is bordering on a dime a dozen. How much are they worth if there are 10-12 of them offering the same possibilities for risk/reward? I think we all pick one or two from that crowd (we've already heard from the Schaub, Eli, and Rivers supporters), and then we get behind that guy. But I think they're all similar in value for fantasy leaguers until they become reliable enough to start or unless you "know" they will end up being a star. I like Derek Anderson's chances of putting up numbers in that offense, but I also think he's not accurate enough and could play himself out of that job with another rough patch. I have an inkling that VY will take a major step forward next season, but the Spidey-senses aren't tingling quite enough yet . . . they may soon.I will definitely revisit those two tiers in the coming weeks.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The list makes me all the more certain I would want a top 6 QB in a dynasty draft, unless I was going back to back with young guy Anderson/Cutler, veteran guy McNabb/HAsselbeck type combo.
 
Thanks, rabidfireweasel.I'll admit that I've had some trouble with Tier 2 vs. Tier 3. I was going to readdress those two tiers after the draft and the 2nd wave of free agency to see what has changed. I think McNabb & Cutler are clearly a cut above. Bulger could bounce back big, or he could stay injury prone in a under-performing offense. Hasselbeck just lost 2 important WRs a year after losing his top WR. There are definitely serious questions involving the two of them for the future, but right now they give you the best opportunity of keeping up with the Palmer's & Brees of the fantasy world. My general sentiment has been that I would rank a tier 3 guy over those 2 if I felt confident in their ability to become---and to stay---weekly fantasy starters. I have that confidence in Cutler, which is why he's ranked higher. But that Tier 3 crowd, to me, is bordering on a dime a dozen. How much are they worth if there are 10-12 of them offering the same possibilities for risk/reward? I think we all pick one or two from that crowd (we've already heard from the Schaub, Eli, and Rivers supporters), and then we get behind that guy. But I think they're all similar in value for fantasy leaguers until they become reliable enough to start or unless you "know" they will end up being a star. I like Derek Anderson's chances of putting up numbers in that offense, but I also think he's not accurate enough and could play himself out of that job with another rough patch. I have an inkling that VY will take a major step forward next season, but the Spidey-senses aren't tingling quite enough yet . . . they may soon.I will definitely revisit those two tiers in the coming weeks.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The list makes me all the more certain I would want a top 6 QB in a dynasty draft, unless I was going back to back with young guy Anderson/Cutler, veteran guy McNabb/HAsselbeck type combo.
Agreed, but if I'm going young, I'm not going for Anderson. I just don't trust him to keep Quinn on the bench.
 

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