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Player Spotlight: Vernon Davis (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2008 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. Last year, we published more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters. This year will be no different.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Vernon Davis, TE, San Francisco 49ers

Player Page Link: Vernon Davis Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsNow let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
i am so perplexed about this guy i drafted him in a keeper league 2 years ago. i thought i had the next winslow, the injuries have puzzled me no such problems at maryland. ive now heard grumblings about his route running and chemisty with teamates. and now mike martz is the coordinator, im not sure if he finally relizes his potential or is completely confused by the martz playbook any feedback on this enigma would be helpful im probably keeping him 1 more year and hoping it doesnt cost me

 
Vernon Davis should expect to be used in Martz's passing game because Martz said so. But is it enough to make Davis happy? I feel he is excited about this year but also think he may be growing impatient-which is understandable from his viewpoint. He has great ability and the 9ers need to enable him to break out this year. I think he should work on his route running before he gets the ball in his hands. I'd like to see him lining up in the backfield but dont know how well he could actually take on a FB position.

I project Vernon Davis to have his best year personally, but I dont think he'll be a top 5 TE as he should be:

receptions - 50-55

rec. yards - 600-675

touchdowns - 6-7

 
56 -655 - 5

A few more catches than last year because of Martz, and an additional TD.

Little chance I will draft him because he is in a mix of about 8 players that are relatively equal and will probably be drafted a few rounds before some of the others.

 
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I actually just recently traded for Davis. I think this year he will put it all together and be a very productive TE. I know alot of people think that a Martz offense will not favor a TE, but He's (Martz) has never had a TE with the physical talent that Davis has. I think 65-750-7 is obtainable if Davis puts in the time this offseason to get a good handle on the new playbook, but I expect a little more out of him than most others do.

 
Vernon Davis had 50 catches last season in 14 games. That's more than I initially thought. If the Niners are slinging the ball over the place as Martz teams are used to his numbers should go up. I don't remember tight ends getting much play in Martz offense. Is that due to scheme or talent? We'll see.

65-650-3

It's okay but nothing special. So far he's getting drafted ahead of Jeremy Shockey and Todd Heap. That's crazy IMO.

 
Freak or not, VD won't get as many chances in a Martz offense..Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in a Martz offense in St Lou..

I couldn't even find TE stats worth noting from Martz's days in St Lou., do we need to see Cam Cleeland's stats? Roland Williams?

Marcus Pollard caught 12 balls for Detroit last year..I mean seriously does anyone think Martz will actually use the TE position in SF anymore than he has in other towns? It's the same old stubborn Martz, in no way will he change his style just because of a 'freak' at a certain position..

Talent aside, VD is in the wrong offense for a TE..

40-480-2

 
Tanner9919 said:
Freak or not, VD won't get as many chances in a Martz offense..Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in a Martz offense in St Lou..I couldn't even find TE stats worth noting from Martz's days in St Lou., do we need to see Cam Cleeland's stats? Roland Williams?Marcus Pollard caught 12 balls for Detroit last year..I mean seriously does anyone think Martz will actually use the TE position in SF anymore than he has in other towns? It's the same old stubborn Martz, in no way will he change his style just because of a 'freak' at a certain position..Talent aside, VD is in the wrong offense for a TE..40-480-2
FWIW, Pollard played for Seattle last season.Otherwise, I basically agree. I don't see Davis magically becoming Tony Gonzalez in a Mike Martz offense. And hasn't he had a problem actually catching the balls that get thrown to him as it is?(I've seen very, very few of his games as a pro. I'm not stating that as fact, I'm asking.)He's a better athlete than anything Martz has ever had at TE, that really can't be debated, but I don't see "Boombata II" being a guy he completely retools the offense around. I'd expect last years numbers with maybe a slight uptick just because they'll probably pass more.63 catches, 650 yards, 5 TDs
 
I can easily see them lineing him up in the slot ala Gates. I expect him to hit his stride this season and be a nice suprise as people have been falling asleep on him (and for good reason).

68-1030-8 TD's

 
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Tanner9919 said:
Freak or not, VD won't get as many chances in a Martz offense..Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in a Martz offense in St Lou..

I couldn't even find TE stats worth noting from Martz's days in St Lou., do we need to see Cam Cleeland's stats? Roland Williams?

Marcus Pollard caught 12 balls for Detroit last year..I mean seriously does anyone think Martz will actually use the TE position in SF anymore than he has in other towns? It's the same old stubborn Martz, in no way will he change his style just because of a 'freak' at a certain position..

Talent aside, VD is in the wrong offense for a TE..

40-480-2
A large part of the reason that Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in Martz's offense is that he's, well, Ernie Conwell. Martz had so much talent at WR and RB that bringing a talented, pass-catching TE and designing plays for that person wasn't a priority. Now he finds himself in a situation where aside from Frank Gore, the most talented and athletic player on his offense is his Tight End. Unless Martz is the most stubborn guy on the planet, I can't see him completely refusing to alter what he's done in the past and effectively ignoring Davis. Remember, he doesn't have Bruce/Holt or Roy Williams/Calvin Johnson to work with this time around. Personally, I think Martz is smart enough to know that he has a weapon in Davis and he needs to design some plays to get him the ball. Remember, Martz's coaching idol is the one and only Don Coryell, and we know that Coryell knew how to utilize a Tight End. I'm not expecting him to re-design his offense to make Davis happy and I do think it'll be a bumpy ride as Davis seems to still be learning the fundamentals, but I think he'll have a good year and has quite a bit of upside.FWIW, here's an article on the Martz/Davis situation:

LINK

My projection:

64 receptions, 620 yards, 6 td's.

 
Tanner9919 said:
Freak or not, VD won't get as many chances in a Martz offense..Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in a Martz offense in St Lou..

I couldn't even find TE stats worth noting from Martz's days in St Lou., do we need to see Cam Cleeland's stats? Roland Williams?

Marcus Pollard caught 12 balls for Detroit last year..I mean seriously does anyone think Martz will actually use the TE position in SF anymore than he has in other towns? It's the same old stubborn Martz, in no way will he change his style just because of a 'freak' at a certain position..

Talent aside, VD is in the wrong offense for a TE..

40-480-2
A large part of the reason that Ernie Conwell never caught more than 38 balls in Martz's offense is that he's, well, Ernie Conwell. Martz had so much talent at WR and RB that bringing a talented, pass-catching TE and designing plays for that person wasn't a priority. Now he finds himself in a situation where aside from Frank Gore, the most talented and athletic player on his offense is his Tight End. Unless Martz is the most stubborn guy on the planet, I can't see him completely refusing to alter what he's done in the past and effectively ignoring Davis. Remember, he doesn't have Bruce/Holt or Roy Williams/Calvin Johnson to work with this time around. Personally, I think Martz is smart enough to know that he has a weapon in Davis and he needs to design some plays to get him the ball. Remember, Martz's coaching idol is the one and only Don Coryell, and we know that Coryell knew how to utilize a Tight End. I'm not expecting him to re-design his offense to make Davis happy and I do think it'll be a bumpy ride as Davis seems to still be learning the fundamentals, but I think he'll have a good year and has quite a bit of upside.FWIW, here's an article on the Martz/Davis situation:

LINK

My projection:

64 receptions, 620 yards, 6 td's.
I agree with the number of reception, but i believe his less than 10 ypr last year was an aberration. He got major RAC ability, so wont be surprised if he's in the 12-13 range this year.
 
45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
So you see lesser #'s than last year......interesting.Even though he only played in 14 games, do you see him missing time this year?Even though he has a much better offensive coordinator this year, do you think Martz won't pass alot like he has in the past?He has better options at qb and better wr's to open things up. I'm not saying he's gonna jump in the top 5 (he could but not likely) but I don't why you would see is #'s going down from last year.
 
45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
So you see lesser #'s than last year......interesting.Even though he only played in 14 games, do you see him missing time this year?Even though he has a much better offensive coordinator this year, do you think Martz won't pass alot like he has in the past?He has better options at qb and better wr's to open things up. I'm not saying he's gonna jump in the top 5 (he could but not likely) but I don't why you would see is #'s going down from last year.
I just think the guy is a bust. He seems to have all the tools in the world, but he can't take his game to the next level.And why do I have his numbers lower because Martz LOVES to throw to the back and Gore has great hands....That will eat into Davis' catches
 
People can say what they want about Mike Martz not using a tight end. I wouldn't have used the ones he had either. If you have Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and Marshall Faulk, all of whom are likely headed for the HOF, why would you throw to a no name TE? Oh and don't forget the big armed quarterbacks he had been blessed with back there.

Fast forward to 2008, your receivers are Bryant Johnson and a considerably older, slower Isaac Bruce. Frank Gore's good, real good, but he alone won't keep Davis from getting catches. Oh, and the quarterback...Alex Smith, Shaun Hill...neither scares anyone, I'd imagine the winner of that battle throws alot of underneath stuff to Gore and DAVIS.

I'd expect a breakout season for Davis, who's entering his 3rd year.

63 catches

800 yards

6 tds

 
60 - 800 - 5TDs

very good, but not great stats. i really see this team struggling early on as they try to get used to a new offense.

 
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45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
So you see lesser #'s than last year......interesting.Even though he only played in 14 games, do you see him missing time this year?Even though he has a much better offensive coordinator this year, do you think Martz won't pass alot like he has in the past?He has better options at qb and better wr's to open things up. I'm not saying he's gonna jump in the top 5 (he could but not likely) but I don't why you would see is #'s going down from last year.
I just think the guy is a bust. He seems to have all the tools in the world, but he can't take his game to the next level.And why do I have his numbers lower because Martz LOVES to throw to the back and Gore has great hands....That will eat into Davis' catches
I totally agree that Gore will get his but I definetly think Davis will get 6-8 looks a game. If that turns into four to five catches a game and he keeps his ten yard per a catch avg. he'll end up with about 600-700 yards at the end of the year. Considering his physical tools and speed along with how big he is and the past that Martz had in STL of going to the TE in the red zone I could definelty see 5-7 td's (I would like to think he'll have atleast 3 td's over 20 yards.)
 
I can easily see them lineing him up in the slot ala Gates. I expect him to hit his stride this season and be a nice suprise as people have been falling asleep on him (and for good reason).68-1030-8 TD's
Gates actually had a QB as well. If the Niners traded for Brees, these #s might be attainable. Until then: 61-730-5 TDs
 
He averaged a bit over 6 targets per game last season. His catch percentage was 61%, which is about average but his ypr was a bit lower (about 1-2 yards) than any of the other big name guys.

He doesn't appear to be a great blocker and imo he's yet to show anything special as a wr. However, the Niners were HORRIFIC last year on offense. I can't emphasize that point strongly enough. The worst team in the league in regard to a passing attack and their rushing offense was ranked 25th. How Frank Gore actually managed to do ANYTHING is nothing short of amazing.

Aside from Gore (who I'm confident will easily catch 60+ passes), there's not much in the way of Vernon Davis. Battle is a solid wr, Bruce is ancient and Bryant may be a good signing but he's still an unkown. Martz offenses will typically get the qb killed and Davis isn't a great blocker so I'm sure he'll fight with everyone else for some passes.

Last year the Lions had 4 legitimate fantasy receiving options on their team (Roy, Calvin, Furrey and McDonald). Do you think Martz won't spread the passes amongst his options in SF?

 
I can easily see them lineing him up in the slot ala Gates. I expect him to hit his stride this season and be a nice suprise as people have been falling asleep on him (and for good reason).68-1030-8 TD's
Gates actually had a QB as well. If the Niners traded for Brees, these #s might be attainable. Until then: 61-730-5 TDs
So, worse case (minus injury), you expect him to be a top 10 TE?? What happens if Martz finds/creates a decent qb?
 
I skimmed the above, and people seem concerned that Martz never utilized a TE in the past, and that's the reason they're leery of him. Ask yourself, who has Martz had at his disposal at the TE position in the past? The talent basically peaked for him at the position with the poo poo platter of Ernie Conwell and Dan Campbell. No, he didn't use them, b/c they're well below average pass catchers. Neither was going to be an integral part of the offense when he had so many other weapons at his disposal with the Rams and Lions.

With the 49ers, he's got a bum like Lelie fighting for the job in the slot. His best receiver is old, and questionably washed up. Who else is he going to pass to? In all seriousness Bruce, Bryant Johnson and Battle will act as ok options for his pass-heavy attack, but with the lack of skill behind them expect Davis to act as the 3rd option pretty often, and if he can stay on the field and begin meeting even some of his potential, don't be surprised if he's the number one option by seasons end.

You'd be a fool to project that, as he's dissapointed before, but there's no denying his upside in that offense. It's not as though he'll have a serious fight on his hand for targets. Assuming Smith/Hill can resmeble an NFL QB, Davis is going to produce if he's on the field.

Assuming he put up 52-509-4 in 14 games on a crappy team, with a crappy offense, and with crappy QB play. With a full set of games, I like him for:

70-700-6

And that's still a fairly modest projection, since i expect the team and QB to remain crappy. I think the offense as a whole is ready to produce some nice numbers though.

 
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As others have said, how Martz used his horrendous TE's in the past really says nothing about how he'll use a weapon like Davis. Has any TE that Martz had ever went on to do anything significant in their post-Martz years? No, why? because they were all horrible TE's.

I think with a Martz offense we can expect 15-20% more passing attempts then what SF had last year (SF was one if not the lowest passing att offenses in the league last year)

Davis should be able to keep the same % of the pie he had last year, so i'll bump his PPG stats up 20% to get my projection for him.

72 receptions/700 yards/6-8 TD's. His yardage might be higher since he's a great YAC receiver and last year it was abnormally low due to the type of offense he was in.

 
As others have said, how Martz used his horrendous TE's in the past really says nothing about how he'll use a weapon like Davis. Has any TE that Martz had ever went on to do anything significant in their post-Martz years? No, why? because they were all horrible TE's.
In 2006 Martz had Marcus Pollard, former top-3 TE, coming off a season where he led the team in receptions and was second in yardage and TDs. Martz arrived and threw the ball 98 times to Mike Furrey and 61 times to Kevin Jones. Pollard caught 12 balls.Vernon Davis doesn't have the route-running skills or the hands to play in the slot the way Gates and Gonzalez do, and Martz's offense is built around clean routes and clean releases from the line. Davis is a bad fit, and really hasn't shown that much anyway.

The Niner offense will continue to suck, and Davis will be left to hope that one day, if he tries hard, he will be as good as Rickey Dudley.

45 receptions, 500 yards, 5 TDs. Don't waste your time.

 
I agree with the group that says that what previous Martz TE's did is irrelevant.

I think VD could possibly be the leading receiver for the 49ers.

70-850-7 seems reasonable. However, I wouldn't take him among the top-5 TE's even though those are top-5 numbers if that makes sense.

 
Martz, I'm sure, still has head coach aspirations and he's not going to get another head coach's job unless he can maximize the talent he has available. His first job is gonna be to get the QB position to start producing. Smith has done so poorly and I attribute some of that to having a different offensive coordinator every year he's been in the league. I think it's gonna take two years for him to really get a handle on Martz' system. If the O-line can keep him off his back, 138 sacks allowed over the last 3 years, he'll stand a better chance of improving.I don't think that Martz' is naive enough to not see that he has talent at the TE position and he needs to find ways to get him the ball. Yeah Martz hasn't really ever had a good TE so I can see him not involving TE's much in the past. That is gonna change this year believe me. Martz is about throwing the ball and Davis is gonna see more passes thrown his way this year than he has in the past. Bruce was brought in in part to help these guys transition to Martz' system.Yeah Ike will catch some balls but I just don't believe he's gonna be the Niners top receiver this year. Scoff if you may but IMO Bryant Johnson is gonna be that guy. He's basically come in on a 1 year deal and at season's end that will be extended. A lot of people have labeled Smith a bust and with good reason to a point. He hasn't exactly been put in the best situation to succeed. I haven't given up on him yet. I'll defer that judgement until he's in Martz' system for a couple of years. So, back to the question on hand about the production of Vernon Davis this year. Martz is gonna let Vernon know he's gonna get plenty of looks. Then it's gonna be up to Vernon to do his part if he truly wants to become an elite TE. If he gets his head into Martz' playbook and works hard he'll reap the benefits with increased numbers. He had 52 rections, 509 receiving yards and 4 tds last year. He's very capable of surpassing those numbers if his head and heart really want to. I think he's gonna work hard to get better and the end result will be in his numbers this year.

60-75 catches

600-800-yds receiving

6-8 tds

Not bad stats but I look for those to even get better after this year.

 
As others have said, how Martz used his horrendous TE's in the past really says nothing about how he'll use a weapon like Davis. Has any TE that Martz had ever went on to do anything significant in their post-Martz years? No, why? because they were all horrible TE's.
In 2006 Martz had Marcus Pollard, former top-3 TE, coming off a season where he led the team in receptions and was second in yardage and TDs. Martz arrived and threw the ball 98 times to Mike Furrey and 61 times to Kevin Jones. Pollard caught 12 balls.Vernon Davis doesn't have the route-running skills or the hands to play in the slot the way Gates and Gonzalez do, and Martz's offense is built around clean routes and clean releases from the line. Davis is a bad fit, and really hasn't shown that much anyway.

The Niner offense will continue to suck, and Davis will be left to hope that one day, if he tries hard, he will be as good as Rickey Dudley.

45 receptions, 500 yards, 5 TDs. Don't waste your time.
I dont think you really have too much knowledge of what the 49ers are doing. I think you are going by what they had in the past. They are a rebuilding team with young players who will improve. Players tend to do that when they have better coaching. Smith will improve and Davis will improve I believe- because I pay attention to this team. The offense will not continue to "suck," because they have better players: Sleepers for you to look at apparently: Johnson will be num. 1, Bruce, Battle who almost always catches the ball, and DAVIS who I would pick any day as a TE in a new offense with a qb who doesn't have a lot of time to throw the ball.

Rickey Dudley = Vernon Davis ?

C'mon, he's going to be used a good amount and if his mindset is improving his work ethic, then you should see a Pro Bowler. The 9ers are going to score some points this year-count on Davis delivering when he gets his chance!

 
I dont think you really have too much knowledge of what the 49ers are doing. I think you are going by what they had in the past.
I live in the Bay Area and thus watch almost all the Niner games and see almost all the Niner press. I think what the team, and specifically the ownership is doing is spending all their time trying to justify their own bad decisions, throwing good opportunities after the bad. Selecting a TE in the first round, on a team with the #32 offense and #32 defense, is a good example of a bad decision, justified because "we have to get Alex Smith (our bad decision from last year) some weapons." Well, he's got weapons and he still sucks; probably the worst starting QB in the NFL. And he will be the starting QB, because ownership decided he was the franchise QB, and owners like the Yorks never see their errors and cut their losses, they just blame other people when things go badly. He'll be the starting QB "because he gives us the best chance to win" (expect this exact quote at some point, probably after he's been outplayed in the exhibition games, and then named the starter). Then after the team starts 2-6, they'll fire Mike Nolan, like it was his fault, and put Martz in charge. Maybe at that point they'll make the QB switch, but it won't help Vernon Davis, who doesn't fit in that offense and doesn't have the head to pick it up, anyway.Oh and by the way: Rickey Dudley put up 787 yards and 7 TDs in his second season. That didn't make him worthy of a first-round draft pick, but it does make his accomplishments a lot more impressive than what Davis has managed so far.
 
As others have said, how Martz used his horrendous TE's in the past really says nothing about how he'll use a weapon like Davis. Has any TE that Martz had ever went on to do anything significant in their post-Martz years? No, why? because they were all horrible TE's.
In 2006 Martz had Marcus Pollard.45 receptions, 500 yards, 5 TDs. Don't waste your time.
there is a reason i said went on to do anything in their post-Martz years. That would show they were a decent player when Martz had them but he didn't utilize them.By the time Martz got Pollard he was WAY past his prime and a below average player. Guys at the end of their careers sucking isn't a reflection on their coach, it's a reflection on their age and body.

Bad example, please try again.

 
I dont think you really have too much knowledge of what the 49ers are doing. I think you are going by what they had in the past.
Oh and by the way: Rickey Dudley put up 787 yards and 7 TDs in his second season. That didn't make him worthy of a first-round draft pick, but it does make his accomplishments a lot more impressive than what Davis has managed so far.
Umm, Ricky Dudley had (3) top 5 fantasy years at TE. Not saying that makes him worthy of a first round NFL draft pick, but he had a stretch of solid years.
 
I dont think you really have too much knowledge of what the 49ers are doing. I think you are going by what they had in the past.
Oh and by the way: Rickey Dudley put up 787 yards and 7 TDs in his second season. That didn't make him worthy of a first-round draft pick, but it does make his accomplishments a lot more impressive than what Davis has managed so far.
Umm, Ricky Dudley had (3) top 5 fantasy years at TE. Not saying that makes him worthy of a first round NFL draft pick, but he had a stretch of solid years.
That's my point; people are comparing Davis to Gonzalez and Gates, when he hasn't even reached the level of Rickey Dudley, who is generally considered a bust. Dudley is a good comparison for Davis; a physical specimen with suspect receiving skills. A much better comparison than Gonzalez or Gates.
 
I dont think you really have too much knowledge of what the 49ers are doing. I think you are going by what they had in the past.
Oh and by the way: Rickey Dudley put up 787 yards and 7 TDs in his second season. That didn't make him worthy of a first-round draft pick, but it does make his accomplishments a lot more impressive than what Davis has managed so far.
Umm, Ricky Dudley had (3) top 5 fantasy years at TE. Not saying that makes him worthy of a first round NFL draft pick, but he had a stretch of solid years.
That's my point; people are comparing Davis to Gonzalez and Gates, when he hasn't even reached the level of Rickey Dudley, who is generally considered a bust. Dudley is a good comparison for Davis; a physical specimen with suspect receiving skills. A much better comparison than Gonzalez or Gates.
Ok, got ya, and i can agree with you that he is far more likely to end up like Dudley then Gonzo/Gates (2 of the best TE's in history)
 
45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
Neither am I.TE's have never produced for Martz, he likes throwing to the wideouts.I also question if there will be enough production from the QB position, and think it's a good bet that whoever wins the starting job will miss time. Martz doesn't give his OL a lot of help, and this isn't the Rams offensive line.
 
Davis is young and likely on the upward path of the bell curve for his career, and Martz has proven able to provide solid passing numbers regardless of who is under center for his teams. I like Vernon Davis to put up career highs across the board. Problem is, he seems pretty likely to be drafted at his upside and as one of the first players out of the relatively large group of non-difference-making TE1s.

65 catches for 700 yards and 5 TDs

 
45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
Neither am I.TE's have never produced for Martz, he likes throwing to the wideouts.I also question if there will be enough production from the QB position, and think it's a good bet that whoever wins the starting job will miss time. Martz doesn't give his OL a lot of help, and this isn't the Rams offensive line.
Hate to beat a dead horse, but Martz has always had great WR's and has never even had an average receiving TE.So all we can really take from that is he utilizes his talented players, whether he feels Davis is talented is yet to be determined.
 
45 - 420 - 4 TD'sI am not high on this guy at all...
Neither am I.TE's have never produced for Martz, he likes throwing to the wideouts.I also question if there will be enough production from the QB position, and think it's a good bet that whoever wins the starting job will miss time. Martz doesn't give his OL a lot of help, and this isn't the Rams offensive line.
Hate to beat a dead horse, but Martz has always had great WR's and has never even had an average receiving TE.So all we can really take from that is he utilizes his talented players, whether he feels Davis is talented is yet to be determined.
He never found it necessary to run out and get a tight end either. When he was head coach, the Rams never took a Day TE. I think it may be fair to say he doesn't value the position in his passing game.
 
So all we can really take from that is he utilizes his talented players, whether he feels Davis is talented is yet to be determined.
When people talk about Davis' talent, they're basically saying that he's fast and athletic for a big guy. That's true, as far as it goes, but it's not really that interesting in Martz's system. The talent that Martz is looking for is someone who can get off the line cleanly, make a clean cut at the right time, catch a ball thrown to a window (possibly thrown even before the cut), and make a move to gain yards after the catch. All I've seen from Davis so far is the potential for YAC; he is quite poor in terms of the rest of the requirements.
 
So all we can really take from that is he utilizes his talented players, whether he feels Davis is talented is yet to be determined.
When people talk about Davis' talent, they're basically saying that he's fast and athletic for a big guy. That's true, as far as it goes, but it's not really that interesting in Martz's system. The talent that Martz is looking for is someone who can get off the line cleanly, make a clean cut at the right time, catch a ball thrown to a window (possibly thrown even before the cut), and make a move to gain yards after the catch. All I've seen from Davis so far is the potential for YAC; he is quite poor in terms of the rest of the requirements.
...and doesn't that start from the quarterback? yes. and has he had that yet from Smith? no. some of those abilities were slightly seen when Hill came in. Did you see that instant offense just as you described in the Cincy game on the Network? Vernon provided that when Hill was able utilize the O and make the confident throw to VD. And VD showed he can run, plant, cut, look, reach, catch, hold on, and score just the way you said he doesn't in his first full game with a more direct QB.I'll admit that he needs a lot of work to mentally become a better player and try harder at commanding LBs to cover him. And hopefully you can admit that Davis hasn't had the OC, the QB, whatever you decide, to benefit his potential until now. If he will bust, it'll be this year. If he breaks out, it'll be this year. You got to be more optimistic with this guy more than pessimistic.I wouldnt say that for every questionable player on this team.
 
So all we can really take from that is he utilizes his talented players, whether he feels Davis is talented is yet to be determined.
When people talk about Davis' talent, they're basically saying that he's fast and athletic for a big guy. That's true, as far as it goes, but it's not really that interesting in Martz's system. The talent that Martz is looking for is someone who can get off the line cleanly, make a clean cut at the right time, catch a ball thrown to a window (possibly thrown even before the cut), and make a move to gain yards after the catch. All I've seen from Davis so far is the potential for YAC; he is quite poor in terms of the rest of the requirements.
And speed and athleticism isn't interesting in Martz's system? I would think its more of a requirement in a passing attack from Mike Martz than any other coach in this game today.
 
One of the tougher TEs to project this year IMHO given Martz history with TEs.

I'll middle him...

51 receptions, 720 yards, 5 TDs.

Would love to have him as a second TE in 12 teamer, but wouldn't want him as my starter.

 
i think 2009 is the year that VD will reach his potential

not 2008 ... new OC, OC not used to using TE, QBs in flux (and sux :shrug: )

so let someone else draft the 2008 stats 52-610-5

and then trade for him next offseason at which point even the longterm holders will have given up

 
Martz' history with TEs is a nonfactor to me, given the success of Gonzalez and Winslow Sr. in the same base offense.

He had 85 targets last year, which is a good but not great sign that he's doing okay at getting open. I'm mildly optimistic.

 
For everyone making the argument that Martz didn't use a TE because he had crappy TE's in the past but now that he has a good TE, he will utilize the position more need to explain something to me. Since when is Davis a good TE? He hasn't shown me or anyone else that he is a good TE. It's not like Martz is the OC in Cleveland or SD.

 
Good traditional inline TE? No. Good pass-catching TE with big YAC potential? Yes. If Martz were smart, he'd tweak his offense to allow Davis to realize his potential, since whichever QB plays is going to be running for his life and Davis should be a safety valve. I think Martz makes the necessary adjustments and Davis matures in what should be a near-breakout campaign.

60/800/8

 
Can we please not refer to him as VD? Thanks,AnonymousBob
I prefer VD actually. I am avoiding him as such so VD seems appropriate. Sure I may be way off on the guy but I highly doubt he will be on any of my teams this year. All of my leagues are Dynasty Leagues so that's not saying a lot since it's not like I'm passing on him in the 22nd round of a redraft or anything...
 
For everyone making the argument that Martz didn't use a TE because he had crappy TE's in the past but now that he has a good TE, he will utilize the position more need to explain something to me. Since when is Davis a good TE? He hasn't shown me or anyone else that he is a good TE. It's not like Martz is the OC in Cleveland or SD.
Good question. But he was the third most targeted player on the Niners last season despite missing time, so they clearly think he has some talent. Only DJax and Battle had more targets last season.The Niners ownership hasn't given up on Alex Smith yet so they certainly won't be giving up on Vernon Davis so quickly and easily.
 
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Vernon Davis is on my Most Overrated list. This guy has been hyped since he's entered the league and he's done very little. Until he proves me wrong, I'm not touching him with a ten foot pole.

475yards, 38 receptions and 4 td's.

 

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