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Who is at fault in this car collision scenario?


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#1 safariplanet

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:53 PM

A car and SUV both approach a four-way intersection from opposite directions.
The road they are travelling on is perpendicular to a two-lane street.
Each vehicle is equidistant to the intersection.
The road's signal lights are green for each driver.
SUV goes to the left turn lane and slows down to yield to Car, but upon seeing Car's right blinker turn on, SUV turns left into the left-hand lane of the two-lane street.
Car turns right at the same time into the same left lane.

Who is at fault?



#2 Moe.

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:58 PM

tough one, but probably the car turning left, who should just yield until there is no chance of collision.

#3 Mr. Pickles

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:58 PM

Why would the SUV even risk the car taking the left lane? Wait two seconds. What's the rush?

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#4 safariplanet

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:03 PM

I thought rule #1 in turning was to not hopscotch lanes

#5 Moe.

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:08 PM

I thought rule #1 in turning was to not hopscotch lanes

still, if you are turning left you need to yield. i would say that trumps any rule about turning into the correct lane. why try to make the turn at the exact same time as the car turning right?

#6 videoguy505

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:22 PM

Driver's handbook in CA states a car may turn into any lane "which it is safe to do so." Hopscotching permitted.

Whoever's turning left has to yield. That's rule 1. Going back to the time of the ancient mariners, if he's turning left he'd see the red port light on the other car's driver side and would have to yield. The car turning right would see the green starboard light on the other car's passenger side.
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#7 ArcticEdge

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:33 PM

Are you homeless now?
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#8 cstu

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:40 PM

A car and SUV both approach a four-way intersection from opposite directions.The road they are travelling on is perpendicular to a two-lane street. Each vehicle is equidistant to the intersection. The road's signal lights are green for each driver.SUV goes to the left turn lane and slows down to yield to Car, but upon seeing Car's right blinker turn on, SUV turns left into the left-hand lane of the two-lane street.Car turns right at the same time into the same left lane.Who is at fault?

The SUV since the vehicle that has to cross the least amount of lanes has the right of way. The SUV is crossing both the parallel (straight ahead) and the perpendicular lane.

at no no point in history has the outline of asses and ######s been more readily available.


#9 safariplanet

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 12:17 AM

Are you homeless now?

No, I'm back to living in my apartment.

#10 belljr

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:48 AM

SUV. I hate those left hand turners that think they have the right away when I'm turning right. Then give me a dirty look when they have to stop for me.

trys


#11 Godsbrother

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:59 AM

SUV is at fault.

#12 Oh the Humanity

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:06 AM

The SUV, although the cop on the scene would assign some blame to the car

#13 stbugs

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:17 AM

Why would the SUV even risk the car taking the left lane? Wait two seconds. What's the rush?

:popcorn: Driver's etiquette has been completely thrown out the window these days. Aside from idiots using their cell phones and obviously impairing their ability to drive safe, everyone tries to get places one second faster.The one move I hate the most is people turning into a two lane road where you occupy one lane and they cross over your lane to get to the other because no one is in that lane. It is close enough that you literally pass them while they are just getting into their lane, but they think it is safe to cut in front of you because they end up in the other lane.The other thing that really kills me is people that bolt in front of you with barely enough room that you have to stop behind them when there is nothing but open road behind you. Then of course they drive slower than you even though they were in such a hurry that they didn't even come close to stopping at the light or stop sign.It seems like almost every day that I am driving, at least one person cuts me off.

#14 GroveDiesel

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:27 AM

Not quite enough information. I need a diagram or something showing me exactly where the accident happened. If the SUV was only partly into the turn, then I'd say the majority of the fault is with the SUV. If the SUV had completed the turn, then the majority of the fault is with the car.
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#15 Worm

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:41 AM

Not quite enough information. I need a diagram or something showing me exactly where the accident happened. If the SUV was only partly into the turn, then I'd say the majority of the fault is with the SUV. If the SUV had completed the turn, then the majority of the fault is with the car.

A car and SUV both approach a four-way intersection from opposite directions.
The road they are travelling on is perpendicular to a two-lane street.
Each vehicle is equidistant to the intersection.
The road's signal lights are green for each driver.
SUV goes to the left turn lane and slows down to yield to Car, but upon seeing Car's right blinker turn on, SUV turns left into the left-hand lane of the two-lane street.
Car turns right at the same time into the same left lane.

Who is at fault?

SUV is at fault here, no question. Left turns always yield unless otherwise signed.

#16 quickhands

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:46 AM

well which one where you?
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#17 Worm

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:47 AM

well which one where you?

My money's on him being the SUV since we got the "upon seeing the cars right blinker he..." explanation.

#18 BroadwayG

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:05 AM

What was the race and gender of each driver?
}=O)

#19 belljr

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:16 AM

This is similar to a car traveling north on a 2 lane road. And 1 car travelling in the south bound lane.

Both cars approach an intersection and both are making left hand turns another car traveling North bound goes onto the shoulder to go around the car turning left. However, the car traveling South makes his turn as the car is going around the North bound car turning left.

The accident is actually the guy going around the turning car. We all do it but technically it's illegal.

ETA: This is probably nothing like the OP question

Edited by belljr, 01 July 2008 - 05:16 AM.

trys


#20 GregR

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:24 AM

Yep, SUV's fault. The car turning right had right of way. He can turn into whichever lane he wants.

The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

Edited by GregR, 01 July 2008 - 05:26 AM.

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97% of the time I'm right, so who cares about the other 4%?

#21 Rock Lonemilk

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:28 AM

Quick reply based on very little information provided:

SUV (turning left) is 50-60% at fault
Car (turning right) is 40-50% at fault

Of course it all depends on a lot of information that was not provided, most importantly the state where the accident happened, because the rules of the road will certainly come into play. I'd also want to know the point of impact on each vehicle, cell phone usage, etc.
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#22 The Noid

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:29 AM

SUV.

:tsbap:

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#23 GroveDiesel

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:36 AM

The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

The law could vary from state to state, but I know that in Ohio, PA and NJ it's illegal to make a right hand turn into any lane but the nearest lane. If you make a right hand turn and turn into the far lane, you can be ticketed for an improper lane change.
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#24 Flash

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:29 AM


well which one where you?

My money's on him being the SUV since we got the "upon seeing the cars right blinker he..." explanation.

What am I missing here? The car WAS turning right, his right would be the SUV's left. So the right blinker was correct.The SUV is at fault.FYI: I was out til 1am last night at Summerfest and could definitely be lost here.
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#25 GroveDiesel

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:31 AM



well which one where you?

My money's on him being the SUV since we got the "upon seeing the cars right blinker he..." explanation.

What am I missing here? The car WAS turning right, his right would be the SUV's left. So the right blinker was correct.The SUV is at fault.FYI: I was out til 1am last night at Summerfest and could definitely be lost here.

If he was in the car, he would have said "upon seeing the SUV's left blinker" since his point of view would have been from the car.
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#26 videoguy505

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:33 AM

Could also go with the old standby: "Whichever car has front end damage is at fault." Betting it'd be the SUV in this scenario.
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#27 Black Box

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:36 AM

Who is at fault?

You probably are :lmao:

#28 NorvilleBarnes

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:39 AM

I blame the ancient mariners.

Seriously, this shouldn't even be close. Give a woman a flat chest, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a flat butt, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a penis?


#29 Ceres

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:41 AM

I'd say the SUV. Ballsy move to left turn just by seeing someone with their blinker on.

#30 safariplanet

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:11 AM

Yes this actually happened to me yesterday minus a collision, While I was turning I noticed the old broad's car wheels not turning out of the corner of my eye so I figured she would pull something stupid. FYI if I hadn't recognized the situation and hit the brakes I would've been there first. She just wasn't going to give me the time of day.

#31 McJose

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:12 AM

I'm just going to say "it's your fault".

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#32 Ghost Rider

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:17 AM

The SUV was at fault.

#33 BroadwayG

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:25 AM

SUV driver not only is at fault, but should get their license suspended forever for being an idiot driver.
}=O)

#34 Worm

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:31 AM

Yes this actually happened to me yesterday minus a collision, While I was turning I noticed the old broad's car wheels not turning out of the corner of my eye so I figured she would pull something stupid. FYI if I hadn't recognized the situation and hit the brakes I would've been there first. She just wasn't going to give me the time of day.

So you were the SUV?

#35 Chaka

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:32 AM

Yes this actually happened to me yesterday minus a collision, While I was turning I noticed the old broad's car wheels not turning out of the corner of my eye so I figured she would pull something stupid. FYI if I hadn't recognized the situation and hit the brakes I would've been there first. She just wasn't going to give me the time of day.

So you were in the SUV?
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#36 Corporation

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:39 AM

Yes this actually happened to me yesterday minus a collision, While I was turning I noticed the old broad's car wheels not turning out of the corner of my eye so I figured she would pull something stupid. FYI if I hadn't recognized the situation and hit the brakes I would've been there first. She just wasn't going to give me the time of day.

I'm glad you were alert enough to prevent the accident you would have caused. :thumbup:

#37 Alias

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:57 AM

did you learn your lesson?

.

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#38 pinequick

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:16 AM


The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

The law could vary from state to state, but I know that in Ohio, PA and NJ it's illegal to make a right hand turn into any lane but the nearest lane. If you make a right hand turn and turn into the far lane, you can be ticketed for an improper lane change.

Nebraska Driver's manual (pdf)

Looks to me to be the same in Nebraska (see page 52 of the pdf file above). And for the record, I *hate* drivers that "swing it wide" on a right-hand turn (when I'm turning left). I got a lane, you got a lane--stay in it and drive, you idiots.

ETA: Oh, so in my state, SUV is *not* at fault here.

Edited by pinequick, 01 July 2008 - 08:18 AM.

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#39 shining path

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:23 AM

I was going to say the SUV until I saw that the other driver was an old woman. The old woman is always to blame.
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#40 NorvilleBarnes

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:06 AM

I was going to say the SUV until I saw that the other driver was an old woman. The old woman is always to blame.

<_< I always assume the smaller car is at fault. Both would work in this case.

Seriously, this shouldn't even be close. Give a woman a flat chest, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a flat butt, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a penis?


#41 GregR

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 03:51 PM



The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

The law could vary from state to state, but I know that in Ohio, PA and NJ it's illegal to make a right hand turn into any lane but the nearest lane. If you make a right hand turn and turn into the far lane, you can be ticketed for an improper lane change.

Nebraska Driver's manual (pdf)

Looks to me to be the same in Nebraska (see page 52 of the pdf file above). And for the record, I *hate* drivers that "swing it wide" on a right-hand turn (when I'm turning left). I got a lane, you got a lane--stay in it and drive, you idiots.

ETA: Oh, so in my state, SUV is *not* at fault here.

I don't think this changes that the SUV has to yield right of way. Yes, the other car might be subject to a ticket as well in some states. But I don't think that lets the SUV off the hook that he is the one responsible for yielding to an oncoming or turning car when making his turn. He didn't do that.
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#42 by_the_sea_wannabe

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:31 PM

I am just happy somebody was using a ####### blinker.

#43 massraider

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:33 PM

It's the fault of the impatient soccer mom in the SUV.

#44 davearm

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:50 PM

If everyone had turned into their proper lanes (SUV=>leftmost lane, car=>rightmost lane), then there would not have been an accident.

However the driver of the car failed to turn into his/her proper lane.

That is what caused the accident, and so the car is at fault.

Now I will say that anyone with an ounce of awareness realizes that right turners virtually always "hopscotch" right on through the rightmost lane, and thus the SUV driver was a fool to assume the driver of the car was going to obey the rules of the road and turn into the lane he/she was supposed to. The other driver's error should've been easy to anticipate, thus the accident should've been easy for the SUV driver to prevent.

Edited by davearm, 02 July 2008 - 04:51 PM.


#45 Ceres

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:53 PM

If everyone had turned into their proper lanes (SUV=>leftmost lane, car=>rightmost lane), then there would not have been an accident.However the driver of the car failed to turn into his/her proper lane.That is what caused the accident, and so the car is at fault.Now I will say that anyone with an ounce of awareness realizes that right turners virtually always "hopscotch" right on through the rightmost lane, and thus the SUV driver was a fool to assume the driver of the car was going to obey the rules of the road and turn into the lane he/she was supposed to. The other driver's error should've been easy to anticipate, thus the accident should've been easy for the SUV driver to prevent.

The SUV driver was a fool to assume the driver of the car was going to turn.

#46 massraider

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:56 PM


If everyone had turned into their proper lanes (SUV=>leftmost lane, car=>rightmost lane), then there would not have been an accident.However the driver of the car failed to turn into his/her proper lane.That is what caused the accident, and so the car is at fault.Now I will say that anyone with an ounce of awareness realizes that right turners virtually always "hopscotch" right on through the rightmost lane, and thus the SUV driver was a fool to assume the driver of the car was going to obey the rules of the road and turn into the lane he/she was supposed to. The other driver's error should've been easy to anticipate, thus the accident should've been easy for the SUV driver to prevent.

The SUV driver was a fool to assume the driver of the car was going to turn.

:goodposting:If that driver ever goes to Florida, he's gonna spend all day plowing into grannies that have had their blinker on since the Carter administration.

#47 cstu

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 05:51 PM




The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

The law could vary from state to state, but I know that in Ohio, PA and NJ it's illegal to make a right hand turn into any lane but the nearest lane. If you make a right hand turn and turn into the far lane, you can be ticketed for an improper lane change.

Nebraska Driver's manual (pdf)

Looks to me to be the same in Nebraska (see page 52 of the pdf file above). And for the record, I *hate* drivers that "swing it wide" on a right-hand turn (when I'm turning left). I got a lane, you got a lane--stay in it and drive, you idiots.

ETA: Oh, so in my state, SUV is *not* at fault here.

I don't think this changes that the SUV has to yield right of way. Yes, the other car might be subject to a ticket as well in some states. But I don't think that lets the SUV off the hook that he is the one responsible for yielding to an oncoming or turning car when making his turn. He didn't do that.

That's correct. The SUV is still at fault but the car could have been issued a citation.

at no no point in history has the outline of asses and ######s been more readily available.


#48 NorvilleBarnes

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 06:48 PM

I am just happy somebody was using a ####### blinker.

:thumbup: I turn mine on as soon as I start my car - just in case!

Seriously, this shouldn't even be close. Give a woman a flat chest, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a flat butt, and she can still be attractive. Give a woman a penis?


#49 Rock Lonemilk

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:44 PM

Nebraska is a modified comparative fault state, so both drivers can share the fault.

How are you guys thinking this one should be split knowing that the SUV had the duty to yield the right of way (Nebraska Code Section 60-6,147 - Vehicle turning left; yield right-of-way - The driver of a vehicle who intends to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is within the intersection or approaching so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.), but the car had the duty to make a proper right hand turn (Nebraska Code Section 60-6,159 - Required position and method of turning; right-hand and left-hand turns; traffic control devices - (1) Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.)?

Who really CAUSED the accident?

Edited by Rock Lonemilk, 02 July 2008 - 07:46 PM.

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#50 davearm

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:47 PM




The guy turning left has to assume the car could take either lane. One thing that I think is poor driving is when a car makes a turn and doesn't get into the lane he needs or intends to be in right away. For example, if that car making the right was then going to make a left hand turn just up the street, on making his turn he should get into the left hand lane (as he did)... not get into the right lane, then try to change lanes immediately.

The law could vary from state to state, but I know that in Ohio, PA and NJ it's illegal to make a right hand turn into any lane but the nearest lane. If you make a right hand turn and turn into the far lane, you can be ticketed for an improper lane change.

Nebraska Driver's manual (pdf)

Looks to me to be the same in Nebraska (see page 52 of the pdf file above). And for the record, I *hate* drivers that "swing it wide" on a right-hand turn (when I'm turning left). I got a lane, you got a lane--stay in it and drive, you idiots.

ETA: Oh, so in my state, SUV is *not* at fault here.

I don't think this changes that the SUV has to yield right of way. Yes, the other car might be subject to a ticket as well in some states. But I don't think that lets the SUV off the hook that he is the one responsible for yielding to an oncoming or turning car when making his turn. He didn't do that.

The SUV had the right of way to the left lane. The car should've used the right lane.

After reading this thread I noted with particular interest that at an intersection near my house identical to the one in question here, the northbound lanes get a green right-turn arrow at the same time that the southbound lanes have a green left-turn arrow. Apparently the civil engineers who set this thing up thought it feasible to have vehicles coming from opposite directions merge simultaneously. Obviously this only works if the left-turners don't veer into the right lane, and the right-turners don't veer into the left lane.

The fact that this simultaneous green situation exists at all proves the point that the car is at fault in this accident, not the SUV.




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