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Just how solid of a pick is Owen Daniels as your #1TE? (1 Viewer)

This year's TE strategy

  • Go with Witten/Gates in the 4th

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Take Cooley as early as the 6th

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Only take Cooley if he drops to 7th

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Go with Daniels in the 9th or 10th

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Wait for McMichaels or someone else

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Binky The Doormat

Binky The Doormat

Footballguy
Our league is 10 yds. = 1pt. but only 1 pt. for every 3 catches.

I think Witten will be very good this year - not what he did last year though. Just way too many TDs to likely do it again. He will catch a bunch and get 800 yds+. Gates - well, I can't make any decision until the news on how the toe is coming becomes much more clear. Winslow, man I am just not seeing getting him where he is going. Gonzo - could be a bailout for Croyle, but do I want to gamble on that? Dallas Clark - ok, but still going too soon (6th). Cooley - ok, maybe, but only if he drops to the 7th (fairly possible but no lock).

It seems that in order to feel pretty secure about getting a stud one has to drop a 4th rd pick on Witten or Gates. I like Cooley's chances to outperform his TE ranking and where he is going (if in the 7th), BUT I am currently stuck on Daniels still going in the late 9th or 10th and stocking up in other areas in the meantime. I don't know if I believe he could really be a top 3 as I have seen some predictions.

Other options I am considering but much riskier - McMichael in the 13th or later or Dustin Keller (still want to hear a lot more - just know that he apparently is basically a WR with a TE title).

What are you guys doing with the TE?

 
I've been snatching Daniels up late in almost all of the drafts aside from the few where Witten drops to the 5th

 
I really want a top flight tight end but if for whatever reason that wasn't possible Owen Daniels seems to be as good of a choice of everyone else that's left (Cooley,Clark,Heap, etc.).

 
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.

 
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. :confused:
 
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. :lmao:
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
 
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.

 
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Raider Nation said:
I like your style. The good thing is that he produced regardless who the QB was.
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Not so sure on this one8 games with Schaub playing the entire game = 41 catches8 games with Rosenfels playing some or all = 22 catchesIn my opinion with Schaub throwing he's almost an 80 catch TE...probably
 
Jason Wood said:
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. :lmao:
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
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Fair enough. The question now becomes can Daniels (or others) produce over 100 points? Depending on your scoring, I'd say so. Expect Daniels and Scheffler to move into the 2nd tier this year, just behind Gates and Witten, essentially equal to a few others.
 
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. ;)
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
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Fair enough. The question now becomes can Daniels (or others) produce over 100 points? Depending on your scoring, I'd say so. Expect Daniels and Scheffler to move into the 2nd tier this year, just behind Gates and Witten, essentially equal to a few others.
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Sounds like your shorting Winlsow a little I believe he led all TEs in targets last year and had 1100 yards. He has to be amongst the top 3 with Witten and Gates
 
Good discussion. I agree that I am probably shorting Winslow a bit from fairly accepted rankings. Kind of a gut thing. Right now he is also going in the 4th as well (late), not that he isn't good, but man, at that point I am trying to get my WR1/2 or RB 2/3. If one of these TE guys don't perform I am really hosed.

Also worth considering is the Heap, Shockey option that Borbely made. They both could work out very well. However, I have a hard time maintaining an emotionless, balanced view of these guys. I still have scars from how badly both of these guys burned me so badly.

Heap is supposed to be healthy and I think has 2 (yes 2) good seasons after coming back from a primarily injured ruined season - so can he make it three? Well you figure that unless they get Favre (they should try), they are going to have a QB that will likely get cozy with the TE for safe passes. Shockey, if he is healthy, AND doesn't turn weinerish could be a part of a powerful O and put up good numbers - but I think he will move up the ADP far too high for me if both of those things develop positive for the next month.

 
Daniels and Scheffler are the two guys to grab late if you wait on TE. I'd have no problem starting one of them if i took advantage of it and compiled a very strong team elsewhere.

that said, in ppr leagues this year, i'm really going to try and get a Witten/Gates/Winslow. nothing is a lock, but these guys seem pretty safe bets for 80/900/5 or better. that's quite an advantage.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
Good discussion. I agree that I am probably shorting Winslow a bit from fairly accepted rankings. Kind of a gut thing. Right now he is also going in the 4th as well (late), not that he isn't good, but man, at that point I am trying to get my WR1/2 or RB 2/3. If one of these TE guys don't perform I am really hosed. Also worth considering is the Heap, Shockey option that Borbely made. They both could work out very well. However, I have a hard time maintaining an emotionless, balanced view of these guys. I still have scars from how badly both of these guys burned me so badly. Heap is supposed to be healthy and I think has 2 (yes 2) good seasons after coming back from a primarily injured ruined season - so can he make it three? Well you figure that unless they get Favre (they should try), they are going to have a QB that will likely get cozy with the TE for safe passes. Shockey, if he is healthy, AND doesn't turn weinerish could be a part of a powerful O and put up good numbers - but I think he will move up the ADP far too high for me if both of those things develop positive for the next month.
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I'm interested to see where Shockey's ADP goes to. DD is currently showing him at 9.02...I'd take him there everytime. Also if you get caught waiting on Daniels and miss a little LJ Smith along with Crumpler or the Miller boys might make a good platoon situation.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.
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I will add that the most insane value among TEs that I've seen over and over again in early drafts is Tony Gonzalez. He has been a top 3 TE in 8 of the last 9 years and shows no signs of slowing down, yet he usually goes a couple of rounds after the so-called big 3 of Witten, Winslow and Gates.
 
TheWick said:
Binky The Doormat said:
Good discussion. I agree that I am probably shorting Winslow a bit from fairly accepted rankings. Kind of a gut thing. Right now he is also going in the 4th as well (late), not that he isn't good, but man, at that point I am trying to get my WR1/2 or RB 2/3. If one of these TE guys don't perform I am really hosed. Also worth considering is the Heap, Shockey option that Borbely made. They both could work out very well. However, I have a hard time maintaining an emotionless, balanced view of these guys. I still have scars from how badly both of these guys burned me so badly. Heap is supposed to be healthy and I think has 2 (yes 2) good seasons after coming back from a primarily injured ruined season - so can he make it three? Well you figure that unless they get Favre (they should try), they are going to have a QB that will likely get cozy with the TE for safe passes. Shockey, if he is healthy, AND doesn't turn weinerish could be a part of a powerful O and put up good numbers - but I think he will move up the ADP far too high for me if both of those things develop positive for the next month.
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I'm interested to see where Shockey's ADP goes to. DD is currently showing him at 9.02...I'd take him there everytime. Also if you get caught waiting on Daniels and miss a little LJ Smith along with Crumpler or the Miller boys might make a good platoon situation.
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Replace the Miller boys with R. McMichael/Dustin Keller or Boss and that what I'm talkin' bout
 
Anthony Borbely said:
Anthony Borbely said:
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.
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I will add that the most insane value among TEs that I've seen over and over again in early drafts is Tony Gonzalez. He has been a top 3 TE in 8 of the last 9 years and shows no signs of slowing down, yet he usually goes a couple of rounds after the so-called big 3 of Witten, Winslow and Gates.
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I think a guy named Brodie Croyle is scaring the heck out of everyone - and a not-so-good O-line. Yes he could be the bailout (as in year's past) - I like the guy, just more risk than usual this year I think for him.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
Anthony Borbely said:
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.
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I will add that the most insane value among TEs that I've seen over and over again in early drafts is Tony Gonzalez. He has been a top 3 TE in 8 of the last 9 years and shows no signs of slowing down, yet he usually goes a couple of rounds after the so-called big 3 of Witten, Winslow and Gates.
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+1 on Gonzo... he's money year in and year out. ignore his ageI would rather snag Vernon Davis, Heap, or Scheffler a tad earlier than Daniels. I think these guys have a higher ceiling imho. A much safer pick would be Gonzo in the 6th considering the value though. I think Daniels benefitted greatly from the extra passing Houston did. Kubiac has been on record to saying he wants to run more and I believe it. Their QBs threw way too many INTs. The addition of Chris Brown and the drafting of Slaton could be an indication of a lot of RBBC with Slaton as 3rd down. How I'm seeing it
 
Daniels is decent value play, but if you want to take on a bit more risk/reward I like the upside of Davis, Heap and Scheffler...all three are going late.

Look at Schefflers weekly numbers and tell me what you see. :goodposting:

This is good year to wait on TE IMHO.

 
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I too like Daniels, but a lot of other guys seem to as well. I've had him targetted as a ninth in most leagues, only to watch him fall a few picks before me several times.

Another later TE I'm targetting is LJ Smith, except that with LJ I'm looking for a backup a little quicker. LJ has top 6-7 upside.

 
Anthony Borbely said:
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.
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HE had 700+ yards and only 3 TDs. Good chance his Tds get into 5-7 range, which would probably make him the 7th or even 6th best TE. I am very high on him and took him in the 4th round of my 7 round dynasty draft. Counting on him to start over Ben Watson.
 
sholditch said:
Anthony Borbely said:
If I'm going to wait on taking a TE, I'd rather go for a higher ceiling pick like Heap, Shockey, or Scheffler, all who have fallen quite a bit. A healthy Heap (I know, big if) is a top 5 TE. I'm not as big on Daniels as others are because I don't see much upside and I'm not big on his talent.
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HE had 700+ yards and only 3 TDs. Good chance his Tds get into 5-7 range, which would probably make him the 7th or even 6th best TE. I am very high on him and took him in the 4th round of my 7 round dynasty draft. Counting on him to start over Ben Watson.
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He had those numbers with Andre Johnson missing half the year. I don't see an increase coming.
 
THIS is the year to wait! Wait for value that is. If one of the big 3 makes it to around pic 50, go for it. If Gonzo isn't getting respect at pic 60, by all means. Or if Clark, Cooley or Shockey are there in the 7th or 8th, grab one. I think in a 10 teamer, you could even wait til rounds 12-14 and grab a pair from the likes of Daniels , Shef, Crump, LJ, Boss, ect. Bottom line, if you can't find value this year, please join my league asap.

 
If my team was strong everywhere else, and I waited until the 9th or 10th to grab a starting TE, I like Daniels as a starter with a quick turnaround for his backup (maybe Donald Lee.)

 
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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I wholly disagree.I thikn the strategy at both QB and TE is tot ake a value pick late - in the QB 8-11/TE 8-11 range, and then come right back and take another in that same range.You are banking on one of the two bucking the predictions as to production (as happens every year) and having a top-5 year. I am not advocating TEBC or QBBC and play the matchups. I am saying take two of these guys:89 Todd Heap TE 7 88 79 101 86 88 98 97 Vernon Davis TE 8 112 95 98 97 98 96 98 Jeremy Shockey TE 9 94 89 93 107 94 129 101 Heath Miller TE 10 114 90 106 117 97 102 110 Owen Daniels TE 11 98 91 132 149 114 106 116 Tony Scheffler TE 12 97 98 126 146 112 143 118 Alge Crumpler TE 13 118 134 124 141 123 128 127 Ben Watson TE 14 123 151 113 125 118 164 And hope that at least one has a reliable top-5 season. Daniels as your only TE1? I don't like it. Pair Owens and Scheffler hoping for one to break out? Not a bad strategy.I'm OK spending two picks after 10 rounds on TE and getting two of comparable upside potential, and having that be my TE crew for the year. The points I pick up at WR/RB/QB in the first 10 rounds more than makes up for it.
 
Ruffrodys05 said:
ClownDogs said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
If my team was strong everywhere else, and I waited until the 9th or 10th to grab a starting TE, I like Daniels as a starter with a quick turnaround for his backup (maybe Donald Lee.)
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Don't do Daniels/Lee. Bye weeks are same. :goodposting:
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Yeah, hadn't really looked, just thinking out loud.....
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Scheffler and Daniels also share a bye in week 8. I've been considering taking both late and playing the matchups/hot hand but then that would mean come week 8 I'd have to cut one of them loose or trim someone else in order to pickup a TE to start. Not the worst thing in the world but it seems my roster is typically tight that time of year.....I like Scheffler a bit better than Daniels due to the Cutler/best friends/room together connection. I think Cutler will be looking for Schef early and often. Especially if Baby To is suspended...
 
ForWhoForWhat said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
ClownDogs said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
If my team was strong everywhere else, and I waited until the 9th or 10th to grab a starting TE, I like Daniels as a starter with a quick turnaround for his backup (maybe Donald Lee.)
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Don't do Daniels/Lee. Bye weeks are same. :goodposting:
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Yeah, hadn't really looked, just thinking out loud.....
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Scheffler and Daniels also share a bye in week 8. I've been considering taking both late and playing the matchups/hot hand but then that would mean come week 8 I'd have to cut one of them loose or trim someone else in order to pickup a TE to start. Not the worst thing in the world but it seems my roster is typically tight that time of year.....I like Scheffler a bit better than Daniels due to the Cutler/best friends/room together connection. I think Cutler will be looking for Schef early and often. Especially if Baby To is suspended...
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Something to think about - just because they share a bye doesn't mean that they aren't a good combo. You could draft both and then figure out how to cover Week 8 later - either drop one or get another TE for that week. In other words, don't sweat one week when you can have a good combo for 7 weeks - likely 50% of your regular season or more.
 
I think the strategy at both QB and TE is to take a value pick late - in the QB 8-11/TE 8-11 range, and then come right back and take another in that same range.
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This.I've worked that system more than a few times with very favorable results. If you're one of the last guys to take your QB1, be one of the first to grab your QB2. Could very easily work the same system for TE this year. Grab Daniels/Scheffler/McMichael/Crumpler later, then take one of the other three guys within a round or two. At worst, you play matchups and were, likely, able to secure higher scoring talent at WR/RB with an earlier pick. At best, one takes off and you should be flying high since you didn't have to burn a top 6 pick on your 100+ point TE and, likely, were able to secure higher scoring talent at WR/RB with that earlier pick to boot.
 
Jeff Pasquino said:
ForWhoForWhat said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
ClownDogs said:
Ruffrodys05 said:
If my team was strong everywhere else, and I waited until the 9th or 10th to grab a starting TE, I like Daniels as a starter with a quick turnaround for his backup (maybe Donald Lee.)
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Don't do Daniels/Lee. Bye weeks are same. ;)
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Yeah, hadn't really looked, just thinking out loud.....
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Scheffler and Daniels also share a bye in week 8. I've been considering taking both late and playing the matchups/hot hand but then that would mean come week 8 I'd have to cut one of them loose or trim someone else in order to pickup a TE to start. Not the worst thing in the world but it seems my roster is typically tight that time of year.....I like Scheffler a bit better than Daniels due to the Cutler/best friends/room together connection. I think Cutler will be looking for Schef early and often. Especially if Baby To is suspended...
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Something to think about - just because they share a bye doesn't mean that they aren't a good combo. You could draft both and then figure out how to cover Week 8 later - either drop one or get another TE for that week. In other words, don't sweat one week when you can have a good combo for 7 weeks - likely 50% of your regular season or more.
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:thumbup:I couldn't care less about byes - esp mid season or later - on draft day.
 
Jason Wood said:
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. ;)
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
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:thumbup: Look, I'm as big of an Owen Daniels fan as anyone. I was one of the guys driving his bandwagon last year, and I have the posts to back it up. With that said, he's not as talented as Gates, Witten, or Winslow, so he's going to be a mid-range TE1 at best- not the kind of guy who wins you games. That's awesome if you're getting him as your TE2, but not so good if you're getting him as your TE1. He's not a BAD pick, but he's not the value pick that he was last year. He's pretty appropriately valued.Of course, I should probably retire from TE prognostication after last year. I drafted 11 TEs over 5 different leagues. Those TEs were Gates x 2, Witten x 2, Winslow, Dallas Clark, and Owen Daniels x 5. I'm never going to match that again in my fantasy football career, so I might as well not even try.
 
SSOG said:
Jason Wood said:
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. ;)
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
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:thumbup: Look, I'm as big of an Owen Daniels fan as anyone. I was one of the guys driving his bandwagon last year, and I have the posts to back it up. With that said, he's not as talented as Gates, Witten, or Winslow, so he's going to be a mid-range TE1 at best- not the kind of guy who wins you games. That's awesome if you're getting him as your TE2, but not so good if you're getting him as your TE1. He's not a BAD pick, but he's not the value pick that he was last year. He's pretty appropriately valued.Of course, I should probably retire from TE prognostication after last year. I drafted 11 TEs over 5 different leagues. Those TEs were Gates x 2, Witten x 2, Winslow, Dallas Clark, and Owen Daniels x 5. I'm never going to match that again in my fantasy football career, so I might as well not even try.
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Gates doesn't count toward your TE prognostication powers. Most 6 year olds had an idea he might be good :)
 
Binky The Doormat said:
Our league is 10 yds. = 1pt. but only 1 pt. for every 3 catches. I think Witten will be very good this year - not what he did last year though. Just way too many TDs to likely do it again. He will catch a bunch and get 800 yds+. Gates - well, I can't make any decision until the news on how the toe is coming becomes much more clear. Winslow, man I am just not seeing getting him where he is going. Gonzo - could be a bailout for Croyle, but do I want to gamble on that? Dallas Clark - ok, but still going too soon (6th). Cooley - ok, maybe, but only if he drops to the 7th (fairly possible but no lock).It seems that in order to feel pretty secure about getting a stud one has to drop a 4th rd pick on Witten or Gates. I like Cooley's chances to outperform his TE ranking and where he is going (if in the 7th), BUT I am currently stuck on Daniels still going in the late 9th or 10th and stocking up in other areas in the meantime. I don't know if I believe he could really be a top 3 as I have seen some predictions. Other options I am considering but much riskier - McMichael in the 13th or later or Dustin Keller (still want to hear a lot more - just know that he apparently is basically a WR with a TE title). What are you guys doing with the TE?
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Owen Daniels -- dare to dream. Im gonna say, make him your backup.
 
gianmarco said:
SSOG said:
Jason Wood said:
FUBAR said:
Jason Wood said:
I like Daniels but no way do I draft him as my TE1. The guy realistically is going to finish in the TE6-8 range if things work out perfectly, and that means you're going to be fielding an inferior starting TE most weeks. Remember drafting QB10 or TE10, for example, as your starters isn't "good value" because you're in essence grabbing one of the worst starters in your league. It's great when you grab those guys as backups and bye week fill ins because that means you're getting starting production even when you have your subs in the lineup.
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In a way, I agree. But, When my 10th round pick TE and my 4th round pick WR outscore your 4th round TE and 10th round pick WR, I win. ;)
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I used to espouse the "Rule of 6" with TEs but in today's era, where you need a 100+ point TE to be competitive, I don't think that necessarily works anymore.
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:yes: Look, I'm as big of an Owen Daniels fan as anyone. I was one of the guys driving his bandwagon last year, and I have the posts to back it up. With that said, he's not as talented as Gates, Witten, or Winslow, so he's going to be a mid-range TE1 at best- not the kind of guy who wins you games. That's awesome if you're getting him as your TE2, but not so good if you're getting him as your TE1. He's not a BAD pick, but he's not the value pick that he was last year. He's pretty appropriately valued.

Of course, I should probably retire from TE prognostication after last year. I drafted 11 TEs over 5 different leagues. Those TEs were Gates x 2, Witten x 2, Winslow, Dallas Clark, and Owen Daniels x 5. I'm never going to match that again in my fantasy football career, so I might as well not even try.
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Gates doesn't count toward your TE prognostication powers. Most 6 year olds had an idea he might be good :)
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True, but the majority of fantasy football players were arguing strongly AGAINST taking Gates in the 4th. I totally reserve the right to claim Gates. ;)
 
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